iPad Pro Grainy display on new iPad Pro M4?

[G5isAlive]

Some people may have won the panel lottery

This is what I find the most... arbitrary/annoying.. about this discussion. The assumption that ANY grain is a physical defect of the panel, leading to the idea that there is a screen lottery... so keep trying screens until you find one you like. The more likely scenario is this phenomena is as many say a natural consequence of OLED, that its built into the specs of the iPad and there is no lottery. I do believe some panels are defective, but until I see data to the contrary I suspect they are a very very small minority. I am not saying grain does not exist under very low light conditions on flat gray areas, I am saying that it most likely exists for ALL OLED panels, and so the idea of a lottery is rubbish.

And I am also saying I have yet to see a picture of an actual image, a complex photograph of a sunset for example, that exhibits grain. One person suggested this would put off photographers, not if it doesn't affect a real picture. As for the photographs under low light conditions of flat gray areas... cameras introduce noise under these conditions. look up iso. not saying grain does not exist, I am saying screen photographs may exaggerate the problem. the same way astrophotographers have to put up with grain in night sky pictures.

I do believe some people are more sensitive to the normal operations of an OLED screen than others. We see that all the time here. Pun intended.

I dont believe there is a legitimate screen lottery.

 

[EugW]

This is what I find the most... arbitrary/annoying.. about this discussion. The assumption that ANY grain is a physical defect of the panel, leading to the idea that there is a screen lottery... so keep trying screens until you find one you like. The more likely scenario is this phenomena is as many say a natural consequence of OLED, that its built into the specs of the iPad and there is no lottery. I do believe some panels are defective, but until I see data to the contrary I suspect they are a very very small minority. I am not saying grain does not exist under very low light conditions on flat gray areas, I am saying that it most likely exists for ALL OLED panels, and so the idea of a lottery is rubbish.

And I'm saying that belief there isn't such a thing as panel lottery is likely rubbish. Yes, it likely affects ALL OLED panels, but it's unlikely that they are all affected exactly the same.

Apple panel lottery is a well known phenomenon, not restricted to OLEDs, but all Apple panels. For example, Some Apple LCD displays have a bit more backlight bleed than others, which is not necessarily considered a defect, but if you win the panel lottery you will have almost zero backlight bleed. Similarly, if you win the panel lottery, you will have zero stuck pixels, but having say one dead pixel is not considered a defective panel by Apple.

 

[Rafterman]

so keep trying screens until you find one you like.

Apple stores won't like that.

 

[G5isAlive]

Apple stores won't like that.

My point entirely. It's not just stores, its the people that feel entitled to have 'perfect' screens that reject 5, 10, or more, is not about a lottery, its about a messed up perspective. that drives up the costs for all of us.

 

[EugW]

My point entirely. It's not just stores, its the people that feel entitled to have 'perfect' screens that reject 5, 10, or more, is not about a lottery, its about a messed up perspective. that drives up the costs for all of us.

People abusing a return policy is a completely different argument than saying there is no such thing as panel lottery. Please don't conflate the two.

 

[G5isAlive]

And I'm saying that belief there isn't such a thing as panel lottery is likely rubbish. Yes, it likely affects ALL OLED panels, but it's unlikely that they are all affected exactly the same.

name anything, ANYTHING, that is exactly the same.. doesn't exist at some level. are all cars the same off the assembly line? no. we buy what is within a reasonable specification. so yeah, a panel lottery is just rubbish entitlement and not very practical. Does the screen fit your needs? keep it. If it doesn't return it, but to keep searching for the perfect screen is just costing the rest of us money and in the end is a fruitless pursuit (pun intended).

 

[G5isAlive]

People abusing a return policy is a completely different argument than saying there is no such thing as panel lottery. Please don't conflate the two.

In this case, without real data to suggest otherwise, it's exactly the same thing. Stop pretending it's not.

 

[EugW]

its exactly the same thing. Stop pretending its not.

Uh, ya sure. So basically you're trying to argue that basically all the screens are the same with no variability, so people should never bother checking out their screens. That's just foolish.

 

[aevan]

Uh, ya sure. So basically you're trying to argue that basically all the screens are the same with no variability, so people should never bother checking out their screens. That's just foolish.

People photographing iPad screens and zooming in trying to figure out if they might have more of the subtle grain that might be normal is not “checking the screen”. It’s more examining the limits of sanity, tbf.

I’m not talking about noticing genuine faults on the screen and returning a product.

 

[G5isAlive]

Uh, ya sure. So basically you're trying to argue that basically all the screens are the same with no variability, so people should never bother checking out their screens. That's just foolish.

Not what I said at all. I have said that no doubt there are some defective units. People should always check out their devices during the return window and return them if they either are a) defective, or b) do not suit their needs. I have said this repeatedly. Do I need to use it as a disclaimer for all my posts for you?

What IS foolish is the notion that within the variations that any reasonable manufacturer has set as acceptable under their quality system is a product that is great, and one that is bad. Yes defects get past QC from time to time, return it as noted above. But a 'lottery' is just misleading people to thinking they should keep trying to find a great product under specifications the manufacture sets as acceptable. The vast majority of the products will be similar enough to not merit return by a reasonable consumer. It may be the product as the manufacturer intends it just doesnt suit their needs. see point b above.

In this case, some grain under some low lighting conditions and with a flat gray screen area seems unavoidable with the OLED technology. There is enough evidence to support that. If this doesn't work for some folks, going through a dozen panels wont change that. Thats not judging them for what they want. Its just being practical.

 

[EugW]

Not what I said at all. I have said that no doubt there are some defective units. People should always check out their devices during the return window and return them if they either are a) defective, or b) do not suit their needs. I have said this repeatedly. Do I need to use it as a disclaimer for all my posts for you?

What IS foolish is the notion that within the variations that any reasonable manufacturer has set as acceptable under their quality system is a product that is great, and one that is bad. Yes defects get past QC from time to time, return it as noted above. But a 'lottery' is just misleading people to thinking they should keep trying to find a great product under specifications the manufacture sets as acceptable. The vast majority of the products will be similar enough to not merit return by a reasonable consumer. It may be the product as the manufacturer intends it just doesnt suit your needs. see point b above.

In this case, some grain under some low lighting conditions and with a flat gray screen area seems unavoidable with the OLED technology. There is enough evidence to support that. If this doesn't work for some folks, going through a dozen panels wont change that. Thats not judging them for what they want. Its just being practical.

The word "lottery" is the truth. It exists. It's a well known phenomenon. What you're trying to do is to deny that truth because you're ranting about the rare bad actors who will buy say 5 units and only keep one. Again, this is two separate arguments which you continue to conflate, in order to brush off people's concerns here.

As you likely already know, there will always be variations within what is acceptable. For the vast majority of people, that cutoff will be appropriate, but for some, it will not be. Put it this way, if I got an iPad with 2 stuck pixels, I'd likely return it, even if Apple deemed it acceptable. Would you keep that iPad with 2 stuck pixels? I can tell you that after the return period, Apple will usually not replace a display with 2 stuck pixels, although it is at their discretion.

 

[G5isAlive]

The word "lottery" is the truth. It exists. It's a well known phenomenon. What you're trying to do is to deny that truth because you're ranting about the rare bad actors who will buy say 5 units and only keep one. Again, this is two separate arguments which you continue to conflate, in order to brush off people's concerns here.

As you likely already know, there will always be variations within what is acceptable. For the vast majority of people, that cutoff will be appropriate, but for some, it will not be. Put it this way, if I got an iPad with 2 stuck pixels, I'd likely return it, even if Apple deemed it acceptable. Would you keep that iPad with 2 stuck pixels? I can tell you that after the return period, Apple will usually not replace a display with 2 stuck pixels, although it is at their discretion.

"How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? Four. Saying that a tail is a leg doesn't make it a leg." Abraham Lincoln on 'truth.' Just because you call it a truth, sounds more like an opinion to me. Regardless, you are going in circles. You will not accept the logical ramifications of your opinion, so be it.

As to your hypothetical question, again, I inspect items I purchase within the purchase return window. If I found 2 dead pixels and they bothered me I would likely return it. If I was outside of that window and Apple said no, that's their rules that I agreed to play by when buying the item. I might blame myself for not inspecting earlier. I would not grouse about a 'lottery.' If I find a manufacturer to be unreasonable, I don't buy from them in the future. It's just not that complicated. I know you see this as a victory for your lottery obsession, but I just can't get that excited about 2 out of 403650 pixels, that's a tolerance level within 0.00005%. Life is rarely that good.

There is no proven lottery in this case. That may change in the future with real data. Carry on as you were.

 

[EugW]

As to your hypothetical question, again, I inspect items I purchase within the purchase return window. If I found 2 dead pixels and they bothered me I would likely return it.

So in other words, you would be one of the bad actors that you were ranting against, because you didn't agree with what Apple considers acceptable.

I know you see this as a victory for your lottery obsession, but I just can't get that excited about 2 out of 403650 pixels, that's a tolerance level within 0.00005%. Life is rarely that good.

Um. You're the one with the lottery term issue. This is a common term for a well known phenomenon in the industry but for some reason you despise it. Anyhow, yes, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy here. You can't get that excited about 2 pixels, but you still would return it. IOW, it's OK if you do it for stuck pixels (just as long as you don't use the term 'lottery'), but you think it's unreasonable for others to do the same for what some might perceive as unacceptable graininess.

 

[G5isAlive]

So in other words, you would be one of the bad actors that you were ranting against, because you didn't agree with what Apple considers acceptable.

Yet it's OK if you do it for stuck pixels (as long as you just don't call it a lottery), but it's not OK if others do it for what they might consider unacceptable graininess. It's strange you don't see the hypocrisy here.

you are a dog with a bone. how clever! I fell into your trap! or can it be you are again not telling the full story?

I have said repeatedly, if a consumer don't like a device return it in the return window. end of story. in your hypothetical question I stayed true to that comment. What part of that is difficult to comprehend? what part of that is hypocritical?

I also said, if I was outside of that return period I would not blame apple or a lottery, I might blame myself for being too lazy and not taking responsibility for inspecting my new device, or, if I think Apple was being unreasonable, not buy from them again.

But I get it, you have to be right. You will keep cherry picking for comments you can twist. You aren't really making your case sorry if you have to resort to that. Let me guess, you want a participation trophy?

 

[EugW]

you are a dog with a bone. how clever! I fell into your trap! or can it be you are again not telling the full story?

I have said repeatedly, if a consumer don't like a device return it in the return window. end of story. in your hypothetical question I stayed true to that comment. What part of that is difficult to comprehend? what part of that is hypocritical?

I also said, if I was outside of that return period I would not blame apple or a lottery, I might blame myself for being too lazy and not taking responsibility for inspecting my new device, or, if I think Apple was being unreasonable, not buy from them again.

But I get it, you have to be right. You will keep cherry picking for comments you can twist. You aren't really making your case sorry if you have to resort to that. Let me guess, you want a participation trophy?

The point is you went on a rant about the term "lottery" and so I called you on it, which you didn't seem to like and now you have decided to make personal attacks. You were the one complaining about people buying multiple units and returning them, which really is just a straw man argument. BTW, obviously they wouldn't be returning them outside the return period, even though you now say it's OK to return within the return period.

The assumption that ANY grain is a physical defect of the panel, leading to the idea that there is a screen lottery... so keep trying screens until you find one you like.

There is no such assumption that ANY grain is a physical defect of the panel. The assumption is that there is variability, and some may be worse than others. And if people don't like what they get, they can return it.

 

[G5isAlive]

The point is you went on a rant about the term "lottery" and so I called you on it, which you didn't seem to like and now you have decided to make personal attacks.

um... how is characterizing my position as a 'rant' not a personal attack? Good for you. Go personal. I have seen this kind of pot calling the kettle black before and that person described it when they did it as poetic irony. Just seems stupid to me.

Anyway, as I said you are going in circles. You win. You bullied me to the point I am just walking away. have a great day. My point is out there for anyone reasonable to pick up on.

 

[SatanGirl]

I just ordered 10 to return one winner and solve the question once and for all…

 

[klasma]

How do you test for this?

You take a photo of the screen set to 20-25% brightness and showing areas with uniform color (such as the background of this forum in dark mode), such that the photo clearly shows the individual pixels. You need a camera that can do macro shots with sufficient detail.

Whether you can see it with the naked eye is a different question.

 

[Shazhank3385]

I have the same grainy display issue on my 11" M4.(April manufactured).
Just ordered a replacement and lets see how it goes.I hope its less subtle in the new unit.
Will update later today.

edit(typo): i meant less obvious.

 

[EugW]

I have the same grainy display issue on my 11" M4.(April manufactured).
Just ordered a replacement and lets see how it goes.I hope its less subtle in the new unit.

If that picture is representative, if I got that, I think I'd probably just keep it.

BTW, "less subtle" means "more obvious".

 

[G5isAlive]

I have the same grainy display issue on my 11" M4.(April manufactured).
Just ordered a replacement and lets see how it goes.I hope its less subtle in the new unit.
Will update later today.

That's a screen shot? Thought it was agreed simple screen shots would not highlight the issue because they were not a reflection (pun intended) of the screen technology but represent what the graphics outputs to a file directly. As it is, if that grey is what has you disappointed, I think you are in for another disappointment with the replacement unit other than potentially a placebo effect.

 

[Shazhank3385]

If that picture is representative, if I got that, I think I'd probably just keep it.

BTW, "less subtle" means "more obvious".

This is exactly what i saw with my naked eyes.The 'grain' is hard to capture without the camera introducing a lot more grain with its processing,So this is the exact visual representation of what i see with my naked eyes with all parameters checked(25% brightness,dim room,face almost inches away from screen,gray background).

TBH the grain didn't even bothered me that much. Infact, i didn't notice it in my initial usage, only after i read a reddit post and post that i couldn't unsee it.
My ipad's screen had this consistent green line at the bottom of the panel and after contacting Apple support they asked me to go for a replacement.

 

[Shazhank3385]

That's a screen shot? Thought it was agreed simple screen shots would not highlight the issue because they were not a reflection (pun intended) of the screen technology but represent what the graphics outputs to a file directly. As it is, if that grey is what has you disappointed, I think you are in for another disappointment with the replacement unit other than potentially a placebo effect.

That's not a screenshot.It's taken from my iphone 15 Plus.Took me a while to capture this correctly as the camera adds a lot of post-processing and exaggerates the grain by a big margin.
This is the exactly what i see from my eyes.

 

[EugW]

My ipad's screen had this consistent green line at the bottom of the panel and after contacting Apple support they asked me to go for a replacement.

Yikes! Big defect.

 

[G5isAlive]

That's not a screenshot.It's taken from my iphone 15 Plus.Took me a while to capture this correctly as the camera adds a lot of post-processing and exaggerates the grain by a big margin.
This is the exactly what i see from my eyes.

odd, the file is literally labeled 'Screenshot 2024-06-06 at 3.40.46 PM.png' .. do appreciate the time and effort you took to take it with your camera to simulate what you see. have to admit, I don't see anything that looks off. have you gotten your replacement yet?