I believe you misunderstood. heretiq said that 80% features of the desktop version covered 100% of the needs of many but not all. I agree and we have always joked about the bloated Office package.
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iPad Pro Had a business meeting today, with some pretty big executives... iPad Pro was device of choice
- Thread starter Adelphos33
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I largely agree with you.
In my experience, I know more people that use Linux for development than Windows. I don’t think I’ve seen a request for development of a “Desktop App” in 12 years? I’m almost positive that I’m wrong, but given the length of my career I can’t even guess at at the percentage of the development market is focused on it.
Depending on your definition of “niche” based on current trends my guess would be 33% of development work being bid out these days is Mobile. Much less reliance on Native tools than in the early days. The cross platform tools have become “good enough”, with React.Native seeming to be the fave. Congrats to the React.Native team for this by the way, their competitors, namely Microsoft aren’t fairing too well even among their own “die hard” developer base.
Tools like VBA seem to be the bane of so many’s existence.
In regards to how Windows (or PCs for that matter) is being used, theres something that still doesn’t make sense. Microsoft has a pure “go to market” strategy For gaming with Xbox. No, you can’t write your term paper on it, you play “shoot em ups”. Why haven’t they done the same for the 96% of PC users, who keep one window maximized at all times and who’s computing experience is mostly in a web browser? No, none of the “Surface Go” devices count, they are too painfully slow to use. I’m literally talking about the “Xbox” for the browser. Stop trying to chase after the MacBook Air, or the iPad. It’s been a decade and I’m not convinced they’ll ever hit their goals there. Strip down Windows from all the various amounts of background services, and turn it into a “fancy” launcher for Edge. Spec out the hardware reasonably for multiple years of software update, create a new brand focused THIS experience like the Xbox, and charge a reasonable price.
Me too. If I could get a MBA with integral cellular connection, I wouldn’t have an iPad. I don’t like running down my iPhone battery providing my laptop a hotspot And a mobile hotspot is just something else to carry and charge up.
Remarkable is popular in your circle? What happened to the classic Notability or Goodnote?
I really wanted to love the Remarkable. Its screen texture is second-to-none. But it doesn’t have the software infrastructure that the iPad does. I’ve switched back to Goodnotes but the iPad screen isn’t the same. I’ve seen people carry both.
Starting posts like this thread are always good for a chuckle
Of course we use iPads when a tablet will do the job better. Google tablets are dead and Microsoft's efforts are also dead because neither committed to just slogging it out no matter how variable sales were. I like my Surface Go's as a handy iPad-sized, slow but serviceable Windows machine that can connect me to stuff, but as a tablet they are woefully inadequate, and that's due to ten years of not investing in a tablet app ecosystem.
While every idiot was bitching about Windows 8 and causing MS to turn the ship around, I was loving it. I thought it was the future and still think of it as the alternative future we never got because too many people who cling onto antiques just wanted Windows 7 with a fresh coat of paint. Similarly I loved my Nexus 7 '13's. Favourite handy tablet ever (and I really like the iPad Minis). Google lost sight of the tablet acosystem as well.
So now my meeting tablet is an iPad Pro. All I do really within a meeting is run OneNote on it. If I need to do anything serious on/with said notes, I turn to my Windows PC's. Does the iPad do anything else regularly for work than taking notes or occasionally participating in a Zoom/Teams call? God no. In that sense is it for work? Yes, as much as a pencil is for taking notes on paper.
Of course we use iPads when a tablet will do the job better. Google tablets are dead and Microsoft's efforts are also dead because neither committed to just slogging it out no matter how variable sales were. I like my Surface Go's as a handy iPad-sized, slow but serviceable Windows machine that can connect me to stuff, but as a tablet they are woefully inadequate, and that's due to ten years of not investing in a tablet app ecosystem.
While every idiot was bitching about Windows 8 and causing MS to turn the ship around, I was loving it. I thought it was the future and still think of it as the alternative future we never got because too many people who cling onto antiques just wanted Windows 7 with a fresh coat of paint. Similarly I loved my Nexus 7 '13's. Favourite handy tablet ever (and I really like the iPad Minis). Google lost sight of the tablet acosystem as well.
So now my meeting tablet is an iPad Pro. All I do really within a meeting is run OneNote on it. If I need to do anything serious on/with said notes, I turn to my Windows PC's. Does the iPad do anything else regularly for work than taking notes or occasionally participating in a Zoom/Teams call? God no. In that sense is it for work? Yes, as much as a pencil is for taking notes on paper.
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It appears that you fall in the very rare category of individuals for whom the Pareto principle does not apply.
I don't know about others, but I do like the more "essential" experience. That, the fact that they are thinner, lighter, with immensely better battery life and somewhat less goofy. Not to discount the ergonomics (that for me) surpass those of the iPad when writing ... whether this is a function of the thinner stylus and writing substrate or simply E-Ink being E-Ink I do not know.
Notability and Goodnotes have me slightly miffed as they both implemented SaaS practices. With Goodnotes delisting the version I paid for from the app Store. I did not investigate in depth as I do prefer Notability and more recently apple Notes.
Having written the last paragraph, that must also be some of the allure behind the remarkable (being that I benefit from a grandfathered-in sync sub from their kick-starter days)
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I used to too, that is until the wifi-chipset and handshake logic became unbearable. It really felt like living in Science-Fiction having the two devices and using one for high performance reference and the other for note-taking.
That is, for my need it progressively went. Paper+Laptop -> iPad+Laptop -> reMarkable+Laptop -> reMarkable+iPad -> iPad+Laptop
My handwriting is basically a spider with a broken leg on crack so variances in screen texture is the least of my problems. What I *do* mind tho with my crabbed stabbing is the pen-off, pen-on response. Ntrig/Wacom has still done a noticeably better job in this respect for me than 2nd gen Pencil... but I'm not cradling a >1.3Kg Thinkpad Yoga in my arms when an iPad will do.
remarkable is a thing definitely among the "I'm savvy, I'm different and I want everyone else to know it" CxO types. But beyond the device, it doesn't have a whole lot to offer.
I like writing, it’s pretty useful (though I’d really like to learn how to take proper shorthand so I could record closer to verbatim), and analog notebooks do work well. Sometimes, though, the advantages of a tablet with good handwriting support (namely, an infinite number of pages of notes, digital searching being faster and more reliable, and the ability to quickly process captured information for use in other apps) really shine through. There’s definitely a time and place for both.
Right, I considered buying a ReMarkable at one point, but my research suggested that getting notes or information (encoded in handwritten text) off of it or templates onto it (as well as reading material into it) was so poorly thought out that I just bought a Boox tablet instead (which was much more fit for purpose, even if it didn’t really feel like paper texture-wise).
Right? I’m not a C-suite employee and have been nowhere near the C-suite (and never want to be one), but even I can see the long hours they put in. Lower level people talk about feeling like their company expects to own them and that their employment is at-will, but that’s even more true for c-suite employees. The stock price dips? If you’re CEO, you’d better have an explanation for the board or you’re out. And the board expects to have your every waking hour. Personally, I want a family of my own one day, and those c-suite hours don’t seem conducive to that precisely because it seems like the business wants you to invest more time in it than in your own family. And, as soon as there’s the slightest problem, you’re expected to go down with the ship.
I really don’t think most people really have any concept of what it’s like to be a c-suite employee (but then, a lot of people find it difficult to imagine the lives of people two or three steps up the wealth ladder from them). Really, in general, people tend to find it hard to understand anyone more than two standard deviations away from them in any metric. There’s no problem with that at all, unless, of course, you try forcing your judgment, viewpoint, and values onto these people you really don’t have any empathy or familiarity with.
And, of course, most developers actually writing software to be deployed to desktops these days are using either React.Native or are using something like React or Angular paired with Electrum to deploy multi-platform desktop apps using web-based technologies (case in point, see Microsoft’s very own VS Code).
So basically, Microsoft’s answer to ChromeOS. There’s almost certainly a niche Microsoft can fill there, and it’s surprising that they’ve largely let Google occupy that niche instead of offering SOMETHING Microsoft or Windows branded to their OEMs to compete. Maybe Microsoft considers Windows branding to be something of a liability? Or maybe it has something to do with Google’s relative grasp on Chromium and Edge’s dependence on it, or perhaps Microsoft just feels that there would be very little differentiation from the user perspective between ChromeOS and Windows 11 Edge Edition (or would that be Windows 11 E mode these days)?
I was the technical leader on several multi-billion-dollar programs and would get emails from execs at all hours, seven days a week. To their credit, they never once chastised me if I didn't respond outside of normal work hours. I gained a lot of respect for many of these people after working closely with them - hard working with a high degree of integrity (as with all things, there were negative outliers).
At my company, you can request either a MacBook or PC Laptop at the time of hire or when you're due for an upgrade.
What's funny is, the higher level executives get 14" MacBook Pros even though they only use them for email, Teams and so on, so they are carrying around bulky and heavier MacBooks just because of their title and never use even a quarter of the power. Everyone else gets Space Gray MacBook Airs, which are sleeker, lighter and used for the same exact tasks.
As for company phones, iPhone is the only choice. All of our conference rooms are both Mac and PC friendly (as it pertains to connecting to displays, cams, and audio systems), including iPads.
I am friendly with the IT team and they always say that it is far easier to manage, protect, and push out updates for the installed Mac base. The only complaints they get from Mac users are the Office Apps load times, but they know as well as we do that this is due to Microsoft's lack of macOS and or Apple silicon optimization. Office still feel like a port at times, despite being 'compatible' with Apple's chips.
What's funny is, the higher level executives get 14" MacBook Pros even though they only use them for email, Teams and so on, so they are carrying around bulky and heavier MacBooks just because of their title and never use even a quarter of the power. Everyone else gets Space Gray MacBook Airs, which are sleeker, lighter and used for the same exact tasks.
As for company phones, iPhone is the only choice. All of our conference rooms are both Mac and PC friendly (as it pertains to connecting to displays, cams, and audio systems), including iPads.
I am friendly with the IT team and they always say that it is far easier to manage, protect, and push out updates for the installed Mac base. The only complaints they get from Mac users are the Office Apps load times, but they know as well as we do that this is due to Microsoft's lack of macOS and or Apple silicon optimization. Office still feel like a port at times, despite being 'compatible' with Apple's chips.
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To be clear, I've got no axe to grind with anyone whose job is well suited to being conducted on, or with the aid of, a tablet. I'm sure there's plenty of situations where an iPad is either perfectly adequate, or far superior to a laptop (e.g. perhaps sales or supervisor roles). I certainly prefer surfing the web on my sofa using an iPad in preference to a laptop.
I certainly couldn't imagine the pain of trying to my job on an iPad though. In general, I think the iPad is hopeless for anything that requires multitasking, which to be fair is quite a lot of 'work' tasks on a computer.
A desk isn't an instrument of torture; it's purpose is to provide a comfortable and ergonomic place to get work done. Why would you want to work on e.g. a sofa or bed in preference?
OK, but that's a bit of a cheat. If you're remoting into a full desktop OS, it's circumventing one of the main limitations of the iPad - its OS. At that point, you've just got the small screen to deal with.
I don't know the specifics of your condition, so can't really comment. Personally, I wouldn't want to use a laptop for any length of time unless on a riser, if only for ergonomic reasons.
It's a pain working on a MBP in a hotel room? How is using a smaller screen and highly limited OS superior in that scenario? Or are you talking about remoting in (you say from a hotel room)?
Well sure. As I said, if you need to get work done while mobile I get why you'd use an iPad. What I don't get is using one when you have other options.
Obviously, its use-case dependent. If your work can use a single full-screen app and benefits from a touchscreen interface, then great. I'm truly happy for you (and anyone else). But I contend these are niche use cases within the wider world of work (and certainly knowledge work).
Desk is so 1950s. Neither comfortable nor ergonomical, nor portable for me. Nothing is cheating, I can run my tests on iPad Pro, easily connect to multiple devices as needed. Heck by your logic a desktop or mac book is cheating if I connect to cloud servers. Every device has a place in the workflow, all make me money. I couldn’t care less what OS is running, as long as I get my work done in comfort, and get paid.
Lol. Human anatomy doesn't change.
You need a new chair.
I'll give you that one.
I don't know what you're work is, but it sounds like you're logging into a browser based interface to something? If your workflow suits that, more power to you. But it's not a widely scalable solution. It's like saying "my Raspberry Pi is perfect for 3D animation*"
*When screen sharing a PC workstation.
I mean, technically it may work, but its not a reflection of the inherent properties of the device.
Also, if you're adding a keyboard and mouse to the iPad, you may as well use e.g. a MacBook Air (which will often be cheaper, have a bigger screen, have better balance when not on a desk etc.).
Only cheating in the sense of making an argument about the capabilities of iPadOS. If all you need is a web browser for your task - which I accept is the case for many tasks - then I take your point.
I'm not arguing against that. Of course you should use the best tool for the job, and sometimes that will be an iPad. My original objection was the assertion that the job of a university professor / lecturer could be done on an iPad. Not in my experience!
Edit: Sorry, I got you mixed up with another poster, who said they could get their work as a university professor done on an iPad. I realise it wasn't you making that claim.
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You have no idea what I need or what others need. I did a ton of therapy after my accident, and doctors recommended the right setup, not just when working from home but on the road when I am traveling, in hotels etc. Human anatomoy changes with age, lol. What i used to do when I was in teens isnt possible now, or viceversa. I can understand if someone is stuck at a desk working from an office. I have a pretty good setup, and iPad Pro works best. I am eagerly waiting for AVP 2.0 so I can take high-quality screens with me on the go.
It's hilarious that you think I log in to a browser and do work. As I said, every device has its own ways; just pick the right one for your needs or use a device based on its strengths. Recently, someone in an iPad thread had a great post on how the iOS App development for that person happens on an ipad Pro. And my family uses an MBA2, which isn't as portable as iPad Pro, nor can I put it in my lap when lounging. If you prefer Mac, great, no need to go out of your way to make fun of people who use iPad Pro or say its cheating or not real work.
With respect, this seems quite specific to your circumstances. You made the claim that "desks are so 1950's" as if they're somehow obsolete. Which is of course, ridiculous.
OK, sure. I don't see working at my desk as so painful, but I admit I haven't tried sitting in a hot tub with an AVP.
Hilarious is overstating it a bit. I've got no idea what you do, other than something about cloud servers. I was just trying to pin down what you were referring to. Otherwise, its like wrestling with jelly.
I'm not claiming that 'real work' can't be done on an iPad Pro. Of course there are use cases. I'm just saying that for most people, mobile work is a problem that's already been solved by the laptop, and the iPad is in most ways a step backwards. It represents a subset of what a laptop running macOS / Windows can do.
And no, remoting in to your MacBook Pro - as you suggested - doesn't count. What does one do if you don't have a machine running a desktop OS handy? You're just left with iPadOS, and all its limitations.
This isn't a controversial opinion; it's practically a cliche to remark that the iPad has amazing hardware, being held back by a very limited OS.
If you think work requires a desk, keyboard and mouse, then of course iPad OS is inferior to MacOS. There are plenty of jobs where macOS and Macs is an inferior solution. All jobs that are away from a desk or the job main aim is human interactions (teaching, meetings, healthcare, etc), driving a vehicle (aircraft’s, cars, trucks), artistic performance like musicians (sheet music) and many other jobs where the computer is a helper to perform the main task.
Less is more in many real world situations.