MP 7,1 Has anyone seen a benchmark?

[th0masp]

I see no 3d artist investing in this machine, unless they happen to be Mac OS X zealots.

I think 3D artists/Freelancers are not likely to accept those asking prices. Not because we couldn't afford the system but because outside rendering all the things you are going to care about in 3D are actually better served by fast consumer CPUs and nvidia cards and those cost significantly less.

With the Xeons most of the cores will sit unused and the much higher RAM ceiling seems rather unimportant since current day 3D apps due to their architecture are bound to get slow and unstable if you fill up your scenes to the extent that you require hundreds of gigabytes.
You'd be working with proxies and externally referenced assets long before that point to maintain sanity.

As it is this machine looks like a Final Cut dongle.

I'd gladly take those 32 GB's of VRAM though.

 

[Kedbear]

I think 3D artists/Freelancers are not likely to accept those asking prices. Not because we couldn't afford the system but because outside rendering all the things you are going to care about in 3D are actually better served by fast consumer CPUs and nvidia cards and those cost significantly less.

With the Xeons most of the cores will sit unused and the much higher RAM ceiling seems rather unimportant since current day 3D apps due to their architecture are bound to get slow and unstable if you fill up your scenes to the extent that you require hundreds of gigabytes.
You'd be working with proxies and externally referenced assets long before that point to maintain sanity.

As it is this machine looks like a Final Cut dongle.

I'd gladly take those 32 GB's of VRAM though.

Can you suggest a PC machine with better cpu, equivalent GPU and similar potential with number of pcie lanes and 2x 10gb ethernet + thunderbolt i/o’s? Genuinely interested to see an equivalent and the price it would be from the pc world.

 

[Quu]

Can you suggest a PC machine with better cpu, equivalent GPU and similar potential with number of pcie lanes and 2x 10gb ethernet + thunderbolt i/o’s? Genuinely interested to see an equivalent and the price it would be from the pc world.

I know this isn't what you asked for (a pre-made from another company) but to build it yourself:

Threadripper 3970X 32 Core CPU, TR-40 Motherboard, X550-T2 from Intel (10Gb/s x2), 128GB-256GB of DDR4, RTX 2080 Ti would prob run about $5,999. You could use ECC memory on this if desired, the CPU supports it.

That would get you a 32 Core CPU that is faster than the 28 Core Apple is offering. A GPU that is like 4x faster than the RX 580, if not faster. 1200 Watt Titanium rated efficiency PSU (though 850 Watt would be fine too I'm just saying what you could get within that budget). A quiet case with good and quiet cooling etc.

That platform offers 88 PCIe 4.0 lanes, 64 of those delivered directly from the CPU and the rest from the chipset on the motherboard. This is higher than the Mac Pro which I believe has 72 PCIe 3.0 lanes (half as fast).

Then next year you could change out that 3970X for a 3990X which would have 64 Cores.

If you wanted an equivalent to the Mac Pro for less money, Pugent Systems probably make something like that for around the same base price with higher performing parts.

 

[Sam Marks]

Yeah hard. Apple should see how PC laptops are sticking to their guns. Some have two m.2 drives. The Razer Blades have upgradable RAM+storage with desktop class high performance graphics running cool. Also optical switch keyboards now. Apple could do all this but they are obsessive about taking freedoms away from users, put a walled garden around everyone and pressure customers into more regular full computer upgrade. Imagine if Apple was a government and treated citizens in this obsessive way. Another tech firm gone mad.

I totally agree with your argument. As in my country the Razer Blade it is not distributed yet I decided to buy a Clevo computer from a German reseller via Amazon. Previously, I tested this Summer an iMac i9 Vega 48 40Gb RAM 512 SSD that died of overheating during the first days of usage. I returned it and the tech service indicated that the logic board was fried. They gave me my money back (almost €4000 with taxes in my country).

I tried a different approach with this new custom Clevo laptop. But for €1400 I have now a properly cooled and very silent 17.3-inch laptop with equal scores to the 2019 base Mac Pro in multicore operation (7600 geekbench 5 multicore CPU score) and higher than any Mac in single core, more than 1300 points in Geekbench 5. The laptop is modular and you can upgrade the storage, the memory, the CPU, the battery, the CPU, the screen, etc.

My configuration has 64GB of 2666 Samsung RAM and I have in total 3TB of internal fast nvme2 storage (you can put up to 12TB and configure them in raid). The CPU is a desktop i7 9700. The GPU is an overclocked Nvidia GTX 1660 ti with a similar perfomance in benchmarks to the Radeon 5700XT and the 1080 ti. And it is ready for any OS you want to install. For the moment I am happy with the performance of Windows 10 Pro. But I could install Catalina if I want in the future or Linux. The screen is full HD, not retina, but I can connect up to 3 additional monitors.

So I am very satisfied with my new laptop.

 

[Nomad110]

AMD EPYC would be awesome but isn’t Intel required to have thunderbolt?

 

[chfilm]

Please stop the eeeeeeeendless Thread ripper comparisons and swan songs about the new Mac Pro.
3d or high end compositing folks would never return to Mac, that was already obvious before it was even announced.
the die hard windows it crowd neither. But for the rest of us, that still earned their daily bread on 6 year old trash cans, who just wanted an updated architecture and overall faster OSX machine, I know personally that I won’t regret my purchase.
It’s so annoying that in basically every thread at some point the PC configurations start popping up... just make your own thread and don’t bother us please

 

[Quu]

AMD EPYC would be awesome but isn’t Intel required to have thunderbolt?

Not anymore no. In-fact some Threadripper and Ryzen 3 motherboards now have Thunderbolt connectors on them allowing a Thunderbolt 3 add-in card to be installed into a PCIe slot then a cable connected to the motherboard for the Thunderbolt features to be enabled.

With Apple they could do that all on the motherboard without any cables like they've done with the new Mac Pro.

Please stop the eeeeeeeendless Thread ripper comparisons and swan songs about the new Mac Pro.
3d or high end compositing folks would never return to Mac, that was already obvious before it was even announced.
the die hard windows it crowd neither. But for the rest of us, that still earned their daily bread on 6 year old trash cans, who just wanted an updated architecture and overall faster OSX machine, I know personally that I won’t regret my purchase.
It’s so annoying that in basically every thread at some point the PC configurations start popping up... just make your own thread and don’t bother us please

I understand your frustration, no one wants to feel like they were taken for a ride with something they purchased especially something this expensive.

 

[jinnyman]

Please stop the eeeeeeeendless Thread ripper comparisons and swan songs about the new Mac Pro.
3d or high end compositing folks would never return to Mac, that was already obvious before it was even announced.
the die hard windows it crowd neither. But for the rest of us, that still earned their daily bread on 6 year old trash cans, who just wanted an updated architecture and overall faster OSX machine, I know personally that I won’t regret my purchase.
It’s so annoying that in basically every thread at some point the PC configurations start popping up... just make your own thread and don’t bother us please

Congrats on paying a hefty Apple tax for being royal to them.
For your kind of users who were content with their 6 year old can in 2019, Apple really ripped off the preciously earned dollars.

 

[gazwas]

I understand your frustration, no one wants to feel like they were taken for a ride with something they purchased especially something this expensive.

What a patronising comment!

Basically telling someone they are stupid makes you see a total douche.

If Mac users want a fast Mac, the Mac Pro is the answer. Not everyone needs bragging rights to owning the fastest machine out there, just one that makes their day to day work easier. It’s a Tool of your trade, it’s a depreciating tax write off, it pays for itself by the work you do with it, it gets replace with a faster machine at the end of tax life when it will still be highly sort after machine to Mac users and worth five times more than any self build PC so having plenty of collateral towards a mew Mac Pro.
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Congrats on paying a hefty Apple tax for being royal to them.
For your kind of users who were content with their 6 year old can in 2019, Apple really ripped off the preciously earned dollars.

The simple fact that by your definition Mac users were happy with their trash can’s means they weren’t ripped off and your comment ridiculous.

 

[chfilm]

Congrats on paying a hefty Apple tax for being royal to them.
For your kind of users who were content with their 6 year old can in 2019, Apple really ripped off the preciously earned dollars.

I’ll gladly pay any Apple tax as long as I just don’t have to use windows, or hack my computer, or stick together my own components!! It’s already annoying me how difficult it seems to be to source fitting upgradable components that will run properly in this new machine (nvme pci cards just being one example!)
I pay the Apple tax so that I don’t have to deal with this hobbyist car tuner approach, and now here we are again.
not saying that it’s not great to have the option to extend the machine of course but just the amount of energy these decisions and all that research consumes is insane to me!
Please just open up a “all Mac Pro buyers are fools, I’m switching to Windows” thread and continue your discussion there

 

[Quu]

What a patronising comment!

Basically telling someone they are stupid makes you see a total douche.

I didn't call him stupid and I don't think he is stupid. I wasn't even trying to infer he was stupid. In my opinion Apple has taken people for a ride with this computer, that's on them. Not the people buying it.

As an enthusiast I know about the hardware and can make great decisions about performance and value. But I know that I'm not the majority or the average. It's up to Apple to make the right decisions for their users, they have a duty not to rip people off. I feel that in this instance they really didn't do the best thing for their users.

He told us not to discuss alternatives such as Threadripper. If the Mac Pro was as good as it could be there would be no need to discuss alternatives, I understand his frustration when we are showing systems 2-3x faster for the same cost etc

Not everyone needs bragging rights to owning the fastest machine out there, just one that makes their day to day work easier.

This Mac Pro has been marketed as a very fast machine for professionals. If they didn't want the fastest they can get they would just buy used older machines. I think it's kinda ridiculous to ask 6K minimum for a system that delivers half to 1/3rd the performance of an equivalent PC. This kind of discussion is important to have especially on an open forum where we can all share our opinions and help people make informed purchasing decisions.

Ultimately being vocal about Apples missteps has resulted in improvements lately. The Mac Pro itself the new one is them answering criticism of the 2013 Mac Pro. The 16" MacBook Pro which I recently purchased fixed many of the complaints about the 15" model such as inadequate cooling, bad keyboard, esc key etc

I understand that some peoples tempers are flared but this is all just criticism towards the system, it's not personal to the individuals here or at-least that's not my intention.

I’ll gladly pay any Apple tax as long as I just don’t have to use windows, or hack my computer, or stick together my own components!! It’s already annoying me how difficult it seems to be to source fitting upgradable components that will run properly in this new machine (nvme pci cards just being one example!)

I pay the Apple tax so that I don’t have to deal with this hobbyist car tuner approach, and now here we are again.
not saying that it’s not great to have the option to extend the machine of course but just the amount of energy these decisions and all that research consumes is insane to me!

Please just open up a “all Mac Pro buyers are fools, I’m switching to Windows” thread and continue your discussion there

I do agree with you that average people shouldn't have to concern themselves with these things and Apple should make the right decisions for their users. Personally I'm critical of the decisions they made here basing the system on Intel's XEON platform but it's certainly a step in the right direction when coming from the 2013 Mac Pro.

I just want to point out even before the Mac Pro shipped its processors are still plagued by security issues that do not affect the AMD workstation/server class processors. Apple has a duty of care to their users when it comes to security too, it's not all about raw performance, they just based their system around an inferior platform.

 

[gazwas]

I didn't call him stupid and I don't think he is stupid. I wasn't even trying to infer he was stupid. In my opinion Apple has taken people for a ride with this computer, that's on them. Not the people buying it.

As an enthusiast I know about the hardware and can make great decisions about performance and value. But I know that I'm not the majority or the average. It's up to Apple to make the right decisions for their users, they have a duty not to rip people off. I feel that in this instance they really didn't do the best thing for their users.

He told us not to discuss alternatives such as Threadripper. If the Mac Pro was as good as it could be there would be no need to discuss alternatives, I understand his frustration when we are showing systems 2-3x faster for the same cost etc



This Mac Pro has been marketed as a very fast machine for professionals. If they didn't want the fastest they can get they would just buy used older machines. I think it's kinda ridiculous to ask 6K minimum for a system that delivers half to 1/3rd the performance of an equivalent PC. This kind of discussion is important to have especially on an open forum where we can all share our opinions and help people make informed purchasing decisions.

Ultimately being vocal about Apples missteps has resulted in improvements lately. The Mac Pro itself the new one is them answering criticism of the 2013 Mac Pro. The 16" MacBook Pro which I recently purchased fixed many of the complaints about the 15" model such as inadequate cooling, bad keyboard, esc key etc

I understand that some peoples tempers are flared but this is all just criticism towards the system, it's not personal to the individuals here or at-least that's not my intention.



I do agree with you that average people shouldn't have to concern themselves with these things and Apple should make the right decisions for their users. Personally I'm critical of the decisions they made here basing the system on Intel's XEON platform but it's certainly a step in the right direction when coming from the 2013 Mac Pro.

I just want to point out even before the Mac Pro shipped its processors are still plagued by security issues that do not affect the AMD workstation/server class processors. Apple has a duty of care to their users when it comes to security too, it's not all about raw performance, they just based their system around an inferior platform.

You comment higher up was very patronising (inferring stupidity).

The new Mac Pro is a fast machine how ever way you look at it. Probably not the fastest out there but still very fast for years to come.

 

[chfilm]

I didn't call him stupid and I don't think he is stupid. I wasn't even trying to infer he was stupid. In my opinion Apple has taken people for a ride with this computer, that's on them. Not the people buying it.

As an enthusiast I know about the hardware and can make great decisions about performance and value. But I know that I'm not the majority or the average. It's up to Apple to make the right decisions for their users, they have a duty not to rip people off. I feel that in this instance they really didn't do the best thing for their users.

He told us not to discuss alternatives such as Threadripper. If the Mac Pro was as good as it could be there would be no need to discuss alternatives, I understand his frustration when we are showing systems 2-3x faster for the same cost etc



This Mac Pro has been marketed as a very fast machine for professionals. If they didn't want the fastest they can get they would just buy used older machines. I think it's kinda ridiculous to ask 6K minimum for a system that delivers half to 1/3rd the performance of an equivalent PC. This kind of discussion is important to have especially on an open forum where we can all share our opinions and help people make informed purchasing decisions.

Ultimately being vocal about Apples missteps has resulted in improvements lately. The Mac Pro itself the new one is them answering criticism of the 2013 Mac Pro. The 16" MacBook Pro which I recently purchased fixed many of the complaints about the 15" model such as inadequate cooling, bad keyboard, esc key etc

I understand that some peoples tempers are flared but this is all just criticism towards the system, it's not personal to the individuals here or at-least that's not my intention.



I do agree with you that average people shouldn't have to concern themselves with these things and Apple should make the right decisions for their users. Personally I'm critical of the decisions they made here basing the system on Intel's XEON platform but it's certainly a step in the right direction when coming from the 2013 Mac Pro.

I just want to point out even before the Mac Pro shipped its processors are still plagued by security issues that do not affect the AMD workstation/server class processors. Apple has a duty of care to their users when it comes to security too, it's not all about raw performance, they just based their system around an inferior platform.

I didn’t take your comment as an insult, all good!

 

[Kedbear]

I know this isn't what you asked for (a pre-made from another company) but to build it yourself:

Threadripper 3970X 32 Core CPU, TR-40 Motherboard, X550-T2 from Intel (10Gb/s x2), 128GB-256GB of DDR4, RTX 2080 Ti would prob run about $5,999. You could use ECC memory on this if desired, the CPU supports it.

That would get you a 32 Core CPU that is faster than the 28 Core Apple is offering. A GPU that is like 4x faster than the RX 580, if not faster. 1200 Watt Titanium rated efficiency PSU (though 850 Watt would be fine too I'm just saying what you could get within that budget). A quiet case with good and quiet cooling etc.

That platform offers 88 PCIe 4.0 lanes, 64 of those delivered directly from the CPU and the rest from the chipset on the motherboard. This is higher than the Mac Pro which I believe has 72 PCIe 3.0 lanes (half as fast).

Then next year you could change out that 3970X for a 3990X which would have 64 Cores.

If you wanted an equivalent to the Mac Pro for less money, Pugent Systems probably make something like that for around the same base price with higher performing parts.

Thanks for this. However I can’t build my own. Do you have an example
from a company that will build it for you from chosen components?

 

[Quu]

You comment higher up was very patronising (inferring stupidity).

Well I can't control how you take my comments but I didn't mean to infer he's stupid. Apple are cruel to take advantage of their customers ignorance was my point. And to be clear I do not think people should have to know about computer hardware, Apple should be making the right decisions for their loyal customers. This system is a reflection on them, not any of us as purchasers.

And I don't use the word ignorance here as an insult, I truly believe we shouldn't need so much knowledge about computers by now, they should be commodities and the companies that make them should be making the right decisions for us, that's one of the reasons we pay Apple more money to make the right decisions for us.

The new Mac Pro is a fast machine how ever way you look at it. Probably not the fastest out there but still very fast for years to come.

It is fast compared to prior Mac Pro's yes. But that's kind of a useless metric in this situation, the iMac Pro beats many of its configs in performance and the Mac Pro is intended to be the ultimate Mac performance wise. And as illustrated quite conclusively it is not faster than what we can get from AMD and it costs significantly more too.

In the past you would pay a premium to get the best performance, the G5 PowerMac was once called the fastest PC in the world by Apple. Now you pay a premium price but don't get top end performance. You don't even get middle tier performance (comparable to a 16 core $750 AMD processor) until you drop $11,999 on a Mac Pro (24 Core upgrade option, the 16 Core config option for $7,999 is actually about 30% slower than the AMD 16 Core I just mentioned).

I mean you see my point right? - I don't mind paying a premium for premium performance. Paying premium money for something mid-range isn't great.
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Thanks for this. However I can’t build my own. Do you have an example
from a company that will build it for you from chosen components?

Sure so here on Pugent Systems website: https://www.pugetsystems.com/configure.php

I configured the following:

32 Core AMD Threadripper CPU (3970X)
128GB of RAM ( 4 x 32GB, leaving 4 slots free to go to 256GB)
RTX 4000 Quadro GPU (professional grade, not a gamer card)
1TB 970 Pro SSD (A bit faster than Apples)

The system also comes with case, 1,000 Watt power supply. The price is $6248.92 .

It costs more than Apples base system by $248 but has 4 times the core count, 4 times the memory quantity, 4 times the graphics horsepower and 4 times the SSD capacity.

It also comes with a high quality Noctua air cooler (very quiet and highly efficient). You're basically getting 4x the system in every metric for $248 more than Apple. Now of course if you configured this the same as Apples (8 Core, 32GB RAM, Lower end GPU, 256GB PCIe SSD) the price comes out about $2,000.

 

[Kedbear]

Well I can't control how you take my comments but I didn't mean to infer he's stupid. Apple are cruel to take advantage of their customers ignorance was my point. And to be clear I do not think people should have to know about computer hardware, Apple should be making the right decisions for their loyal customers. This system is a reflection on them, not any of us as purchasers.

And I don't use the word ignorance here as an insult, I truly believe we shouldn't need so much knowledge about computers by now, they should be commodities and the companies that make them should be making the right decisions for us, that's one of the reasons we pay Apple more money to make the right decisions for us.



It is fast compared to prior Mac Pro's yes. But that's kind of a useless metric in this situation, the iMac Pro beats many of its configs in performance and the Mac Pro is intended to be the ultimate Mac performance wise. And as illustrated quite conclusively it is not faster than what we can get from AMD and it costs significantly more too.

In the past you would pay a premium to get the best performance, the G5 PowerMac was once called the fastest PC in the world by Apple. Now you pay a premium price but don't get top end performance. You don't even get middle tier performance (comparable to a 16 core $750 AMD processor) until you drop $11,999 on a Mac Pro (24 Core upgrade option, the 16 Core config option for $7,999 is actually about 30% slower than the AMD 16 Core I just mentioned).

I mean you see my point right? - I don't mind paying a premium for premium performance. Paying premium money for something mid-range isn't great.
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Sure so here on Pugent Systems website: https://www.pugetsystems.com/configure.php

I configured the following:

32 Core AMD Threadripper CPU (3970X)
128GB of RAM ( 4 x 32GB, leaving 4 slots free to go to 256GB)
RTX 4000 Quadro GPU (professional grade, not a gamer card)
1TB 970 Pro SSD (A bit faster than Apples)

The system also comes with case, 1,000 Watt power supply. The price is $6248.92 .

It costs more than Apples base system by $248 but has 4 times the core count, 4 times the memory quantity, 4 times the graphics horsepower and 4 times the SSD capacity.

It also comes with a high quality Noctua air cooler (very quiet and highly efficient). You're basically getting 4x the system in every metric for $248 more than Apple. Now of course if you configured this the same as Apples (8 Core, 32GB RAM, Lower end GPU, 256GB PCIe SSD) the price comes out about $2,000.

Hi, thanks for this. I should have been more specific though, i’m looking for an equivalent to 16core, 192gb ram (aftermarket), vega II with 32gb vram (I work in resolve). When I look that up at pugetsystemd it’s quite a bit more expensive than the Mac Pro and missing some of the Mac Pro features. So is it only the base configuration that’s dominated by PC’s?

 

[Quu]

Hi, thanks for this. I should have been more specific though, i’m looking for an equivalent to 16core, 192gb ram (aftermarket), vega II with 32gb vram (I work in resolve). When I look that up at pugetsystemd it’s quite a bit more expensive than the Mac Pro and missing some of the Mac Pro features. So is it only the base configuration that’s dominated by PC’s?

Pugent Systems doesn't offer 192GB on Threadripper so we'd have to use the 256GB RAM option.

We can drop the CPU down from 32 Cores to 24 Cores and change the GPU to an AMD Radeon Pro WX 9100. This has 16GB of HBM2 Memory. I do not believe they offer an equivalent to the Vega II offered by Apple.

Though you could buy one and install it yourself within 2-3 minutes. It's literally just open the door, remove 2 screws that are holding down two PCIe blanks then push the new card into the slot, plug in two power cables, put the two screws back and power the system on. This is the same as upgrading the Mac Pro from Apple essentially.

Similarly you would need to buy the Gigabyte Thunderbolt 3 card if you want Thunderbolt 3 and an Intel 10Gb ethernet card which would be about $500.

But those changes I listed that Pugent Systems do offer come out to $6,959.81. You're looking at about $7,800 with the Thunderbolt 3 card + dual 10Gb ethernet card.

If you were to contact them though and ask for all this stuff to be done for you including those GPU's you want they would do it, they are a complete boutique system builder so whatever you ask for they can do as-long as it's compatible (which they would determine for you).

I think the system you want configured from Apple would be $13,399. so we're still looking at half the price. For $13,399 you could get Pugent to install dual Vega's and still have several thousand dollars left over etc

 

[gazwas]

I personally know exact what I’m getting myself into and continually being told in every Mac Pro topic that I’m being ripped off and I can build a PC for half the cost (I don’t want a PC) when in a Mac centric forum is not very helpful and soon becomes very tedious.

Typed while banging head against brick wall.........

 

[Quu]

I personally know exact what I’m getting myself into and continually being told in every Mac Pro topic that I’m being ripped off and I can build a PC for half the cost (I don’t want a PC) when in a Mac centric forum is not very helpful and soon becomes very tedious.

Typed while banging head against brick wall.........

I didn't realise the opinion against the system was so strong all across this forum. I've only visited a few threads about it to be honest. But I understand what you're saying.

I bought a 16" MacBook Pro knowing full-well that for the £2,800 I paid I could have got a PC laptop that's twice as fast in graphics and had twice the ram and so on but I still got it anyway cause it has other non-performance related features I wanted and I expect for you it's the same with the Mac Pro.

 

[ssgbryan]

Which is why my next box will have a 3950x (as soon as I can get my hands on one).

Thanks for this. However I can’t build my own. Do you have an example
from a company that will build it for you from chosen components?

VelocityMicro.com

 

[jinnyman]

I didn't realise the opinion against the system was so strong all across this forum. I've only visited a few threads about it to be honest. But I understand what you're saying.

I bought a 16" MacBook Pro knowing full-well that for the £2,800 I paid I could have got a PC laptop that's twice as fast in graphics and had twice the ram and so on but I still got it anyway cause it has other non-performance related features I wanted and I expect for you it's the same with the Mac Pro.

The mobile is different. To get the better performance than MBP 16" at the same price point, you have to go bulkier. There's premium in going reasonably mobile at the same time being performance workstation. For example, similar Thinkpad X1 extreme or P1 is also pretty expensive.

As for the desktop, nothing special can be found except that's running Mac OS and making users much more difficult to upgrade. It looks really nice, and I give that. You know, I only see a computer as tool, and thus I really care cost / performance ratio. I highly appraise the value of Mac OS hence the reason I'm still using Mac, but even then, the amount of Apple tax justifiable can only go up so much.

If they charge 6,000 for the starter, make it worth 6,000. This machine is not. Back then, we knew Apple's offering were the best. As of the spec now, it's not the best option and it's implemented in such a weird way with inflated cost. It just looks nice, and fact that we 've been not offered any modular mac for last 6 years pretty much make some users blindly accept what Apple's throwing at us. I hate that.

 

[Upgrader]

Or just sending them to customers in the targeted demographic with a NDA and not much advanced hoo-haw. Imagine that.

https://9to5mac.com/2019/12/24/new-mac-pro-animation/

As opposed to tech porn review sites that will do what with them for a week or so ?

Thanks for posting this - much more useful than a geek bench chart.

 

[Upgrader]

If Apple are ‘ripping people off’ then they’re not alone in that endeavour. Yet I only ever seem to see Apple getting heat for it.

 

[Quu]

If Apple are ‘ripping people off’ then they’re not alone in that endeavour. Yet I only ever seem to see Apple getting heat for it.

They're not the only one but they sell so few different models. Dell sell so many if I said a model name of any of them barely any of us here or anywhere (even in PC circles) would know which one it is or what specs or price it starts at without looking it up first.

I think my post earlier where I showed Pugent Systems offering 4x basically everything (CPU, RAM, SSD, GPU) for $250 or so more than the base spec Mac Pro illustrates the rip off quite well.

Admittedly you're giving up Thunderbolt 3, 10Gb ethernet and macOS in that price but you are getting 4x better everything else in things I think most people care about in a desktop. CPU performance, Ram quantity, SSD quantity and GPU performance.

Those are definitely core attributes people look for and care about a lot when it comes to just the hardware. Obviously I know people prefer macOS but this isn't about Windows vs Mac or building vs buying. This is just to illustrate the cost factor compared to what Apple could have delivered for the money.

 

[Upgrader]

Glad we’re in agreement that almost all other major vendors are also ‘ripping people off’.
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They're not the only one but they sell so few different models. Dell sell so many if I said a model name of any of them barely any of us here or anywhere (even in PC circles) would know which one it is or what specs or price it starts at without looking it up first.

so to be clear, because Dell ‘rip people off’ on multiple fronts via a huge number of potentially confusing options they’re somehow not ripping people off as badly as Apple?

🤔