Has Apple lost their mind? March 8th Event Disappointment

[Mity]

But even in your examples you are quoting your experience, which a lot of people aren’t going to have. Most people wouldn’t know how much RAM they need for a Windows machine with 2 monitors, using your example, and they don’t know who to ask to find out. I don’t think you are wrong in your assessment, I think a lot of people, maybe a majority, don’t honestly know so they buy the most expensive version that they can and specifically in Apples case they then complain about how expensive an Apple computer is, when they would have been perfectly happy with one costing less. The same thing does happen with Wintel computers, just not as frequently anymore. You can buy them at Best Buy or Target or Walmart and pay somewhere around $800 and get an ok amount of memory and an ok processor and at least for a year or three the computer won’t seem slow. But they aren’t usually doing anything extravagant with it. But is an iMac Studio supposed to be more or less powerful than an iMac Pro? How would a new customer know? M1, M1 Pro, M1 Max, M1 Ultra, Apple has a history of blurring performance categories with their naming.

In an age where tech is one of the most important thing in our lives, I think most people know what RAM is and how much they need. And if they don't, there are plenty of resources to find out, including Macrumors:
https://www.macrumors.com/guide/16gb-vs-32gb-macbook-pro/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-mini-m1-ram-advide-8gb-vs-16gb.2334242/

If someone still doesn't know what they need, I think that price and availability are pretty good indicators. I agree that most people will buy what they can afford but I disagree that they will get the top spec. Is the average user going to spend $4K+ on a new computer? I don't think so... There's a very small group of people that are going to buy that spec. Like you said, they're going to Best Buy or Costco and picking up something off the shelf and that's usually a lower or mid spec at best, meaning retailers already know what the most popular model is likely to be and that's what they'll carry to increase sell-through.

 

[EdT]

I'm disappointed too.. I currently own a late 2015 27inch iMac with an upgrade i7 processor, 2TB harddisk and 24Gb RAM (16 of which I bought aftermarket for about €100). I do quite a lot of photo editing using Lightroom and Photoshop but I'm not a pro. So maybe a couple of hours every week..... And once a year I take all the family iPhone movies and make the 202x 1080p movie using iMovie. The machine is getting a bit sluggish so I was waiting for the new 27inch iMac, but it appears that it's not coming...
If I buy the studio stuff and an monitor this would cost me around €5000 (the low price one with only an upgraded SSD to 1 TB). That's just to much for my type of use. The 24inch is just to small to really comfortably edit photo's and videos. The menubars etc of Lightroom and photoshop would just leave me to little editing space. So I seem to be stuck in the middle...

Your computer, when you purchased it, it’s memory and processor and what you use it for is exactly the same as mine.

It is possible that a 24 inch iMac or a Mac Mini with just base memory would be a significant improvement over my current. But I don’t know. The 24 inch display I’m not crazy about, even if everything else is wonderful because I LIKE editing on the bigger screen. Having to buy a display for a Mac Mini pushes the price up close to or more than $1000 over the Mini’s list price, so I’m back to around $2000 with just the base model.

So one of us should buy the Mac Studio and monitor and let the other know how well it works for them, and what surprises that they run into. I vote that you do it…?

 

[Peter_M]

I can't speak to Norwegian prices, but no, it isn't. I did it relative to the 14" MBP. Point to point it's $900 USD for the same specced machine.

Either your math is off, or prices are very different in Norway. I was comparing the non-ultra version of Mac Studio, with the most similar type of RAM, storage and CPU in a MacBook Pro 14" model. US prices vs Norwegian prices for Apple products is typically 1$ = 12.5 NOK. Real currency is 1$ = 9 NOK

This is with Trump's China import taxes (still active?), which we don't have. Basically I've cut my Apple purchases in half the last 6-7 years. I can't justify more frequent updates anymore, with Apple's Scrooge McDuck pricing strategy.

 

[Peter_M]

I'm disappointed too.. I currently own a late 2015 27inch iMac with an upgrade i7 processor, 2TB harddisk and 24Gb RAM (16 of which I bought aftermarket for about €100). I do quite a lot of photo editing using Lightroom and Photoshop but I'm not a pro. So maybe a couple of hours every week..... And once a year I take all the family iPhone movies and make the 202x 1080p movie using iMovie. The machine is getting a bit sluggish so I was waiting for the new 27inch iMac, but it appears that it's not coming...
If I buy the studio stuff and an monitor this would cost me around €5000 (the low price one with only an upgraded SSD to 1 TB). That's just to much for my type of use. The 24inch is just to small to really comfortably edit photo's and videos. The menubars etc of Lightroom and photoshop would just leave me to little editing space. So I seem to be stuck in the middle...

I stopped buying Mac monitors a long time ago. Get an ultrawide 34-38" PC monitor instead. You get a bigger and more practical monitor (including higher refresh rate), and the non-glossy surface is much easier on the eyes. I'm very happy with my LG 38GN950 + Mac Mini.

 

[iLondoner]

Why kill the 27-in iMac without a viable replacement?

 

[Paradoxally]

Why kill the 27-in iMac without a viable replacement?

I can only think it's because it's more viable down the line to go the modular route.

If you buy an iMac, after a few years the hardware is obsolete but the display is oftentimes in pristine condition. This leads to more e-waste. It's great for convenience but I've never been a fan of the format. It limits you in hardware options and display size. You also can't easily repurpose that display.

If you get a Mac mini (or Studio, basically any computer without a display attached) you are free to choose the monitor(s) you want, upgrade the hardware, keep the displays, or vice-versa. Monitors can easily last for over 10 years, but the hardware won't without it becoming obsolete/unsupported.

 

[darkpaw]

Totally agree (compare the Mac Studio to a similarly specced 14" MacBook Pro, it's a price difference of <300$

I just did that. In every case the Mac Studio is £800 less.

Mac Studio: £1,999

• Apple M1 Max with 10-core CPU, 24-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine
• 32GB unified memory
• 512GB SSD storage
• Front: Two USB-C ports, one SDXC card slot
• Back: Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, two USB-A ports, one HDMI port, one 10Gb Ethernet port, one 3.5mm headphone jack

MacBook Pro 14": £2,799

• Apple M1 Max with 10-core CPU, 24-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine
• 32GB unified memory
• 512GB SSD storage
• 96W USB-C Power Adapter
• 14-inch Liquid Retina XDR display
• Three Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, SDXC card slot, MagSafe 3 port
• Backlit Magic Keyboard with Touch ID - British

Mac Studio: 1 more TB4 port, 2x USB3 ports, 1x 10Gb Ethernet port
MacBook Pro: Screen, keyboard, SD card slot

So, for £800 more the MBP gives you a screen and keyboard.

Let's say you want a keyboard (with Touch ID, £149) and trackpad (£149), so add £298 for that, still £502 cheaper. Spend that £502 on a monitor and you've matched it.

Some people already have monitors, keyboards etc., which is why they would opt for a Mac Studio rather than an MBP that stays closed all the time (meaning the screen and keyboard aren't even used). Comparing a desktop Mac with a laptop doesn't really seem useful.

 

[currocj]

I totally disagree; I was pleasantly surprised with the Studio and enthusiastically ordered one immediately. My use case benefits from higher core counts and powerful graphics and its for my business, so the cost is a write off. I currently have 16-core and 28-core Mac Pro and my new 16" M1 Max is faster than the 16-core on many tasks and even faster than the 28-core on some. Based on that, I expect the Ultra version I ordered will easily match or best my 28-core Mac Pro and at 1/3 the cost. That's remarkable. The entry machines are very reasonable for the performance you will get as well. They are clearly selling extremely well as delivery dates are already stretching out several months now.

As for the display, I did order one for my wife to use to replace her LG UltraFine 27". That monitor sold for $1299 and this new one has vastly upgraded specs and capabilities, so I think it's a pretty good deal. Yes, the height-adjustable stand should have been included but that's not a huge issue IMO. I would prefer 32" but if you want a high-dpi 32" screen it's just going to be expensive, period, and they have a monitor that covers that market. Besides, if you want a lower-cost lower dpi monitor there's tons of cheap choices. Apple doesn't sell cheap/low quality products, especially mass commodity ones, so again no surprise the monitor isn't targeted at that market.

vastly upgraded specs on the Studio Display vs LG 5K? 100 more nits brightness, better camera and speakers. That's about it. No 120Hz, No ProMotion, no MiniLED. Nothing special!

 

[JMacHack]

vastly upgraded specs on the Studio Display vs LG 5K? 100 more nits brightness, better camera and speakers. That's about it. No 120Hz, No ProMotion, no MiniLED. Nothing special!

Honestly the aluminum in the enclosure and the a14 probably drive the price up, but I’m still dubious whether the monitor is really worth it.

 

[darngooddesign]

... So, for £800 more the MBP gives you a screen and keyboard.

And a trackpad, a battery, other laptop things, and a Mini-LED screen, and it excels at portability while the Studio fails that.

It's a bizarre comparison.

PS. The M1-Max MBP comes with 1TB not 512GB so you can subtract $200 from the MBP's price to match the base Studio.

 

[Pilot Jones]

I really like the Mac Studio, but my only gripe is how Apple seems to have swallowed the upper-mid level of power users who need some punch but not all the way.

If there was an updated Mac Mini or a new iMac Pro, both with an M1 Max option, I think there would've been a lot less complaining generally.

Essentially they robbed an entire market of people who previously had incredible options by asking them to either settle for less power or pay up for more power than they need.

 

[Peter_M]

I just did that. In every case the Mac Studio is £800 less.

Mac Studio: £1,999

• Apple M1 Max with 10-core CPU, 24-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine
• 32GB unified memory
• 512GB SSD storage
• Front: Two USB-C ports, one SDXC card slot
• Back: Four Thunderbolt 4 ports, two USB-A ports, one HDMI port, one 10Gb Ethernet port, one 3.5mm headphone jack

MacBook Pro 14": £2,799

• Apple M1 Max with 10-core CPU, 24-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine
• 32GB unified memory
• 512GB SSD storage
• 96W USB-C Power Adapter
• 14-inch Liquid Retina XDR display
• Three Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, SDXC card slot, MagSafe 3 port
• Backlit Magic Keyboard with Touch ID - British

Mac Studio: 1 more TB4 port, 2x USB3 ports, 1x 10Gb Ethernet port
MacBook Pro: Screen, keyboard, SD card slot

So, for £800 more the MBP gives you a screen and keyboard.

Let's say you want a keyboard (with Touch ID, £149) and trackpad (£149), so add £298 for that, still £502 cheaper. Spend that £502 on a monitor and you've matched it.

Some people already have monitors, keyboards etc., which is why they would opt for a Mac Studio rather than an MBP that stays closed all the time (meaning the screen and keyboard aren't even used). Comparing a desktop Mac with a laptop doesn't really seem useful.

Mac Studio cheapest option + 1tb SSD = 26 990 NOK
MacBook Pro 14" cheapest option + 1tb SSD + 32gb RAM = 30 990 NOK

So, I missed the estimate with 20 dollars (ie. 320 US dollars difference, using the 12.5:1 conversion in my previous post, taking Norwegian vs US Apple pricing into account). Yes, the Mac Studio has a better default CPU, but in total this is clearly yet another price hike from Apple.

We used to get a new generation of a specific product with improved technology, at a similar price point. Now we have to pay more or more money, for improvements in technology from one generation to the next.

Also comparing this price-wise to Mac Pro is misleading (as some here are doing). Mac Pro uses third party hardware, including Intel Xeon CPUs and ECC RAM, a much more expensive motherboard and metal casing etc. I find it strange how regular consumers feel obligated to shill for a trillion dollar company, but whatever.

 

[darngooddesign]

I really like the Mac Studio, but my only gripe is how Apple seems to have swallowed the upper-mid level of power users who need some punch but not all the way.

If there was an updated Mac Mini or a new iMac Pro, both with an M1 Max option, I think there would've been a lot less complaining generally.

Essentially they robbed an entire market of people who previously had incredible options by asking them to either settle for less power or pay up for more power than they need.

The M1-Max Studio is actually the same price as a Mac Mini if it were upgraded to the same specs so there really wouldn't be less complaining. Based on the cost of processor/RAM upgrades in the MBP, the 16/512 M1-Pro Studio you are referring to would start at $1399 instead of $1999 and that would be a good computer for the kind of users you are referring to.

 

[telo123]

I've been looking to replace my LG UltraFine 4K made for Mac, and I ordered the Mac Studio Display. Can't wait!
- this display basically replaces the LG 5K 27" that they made for the Mac. Now its even better ahaha!

 

[Jonathan.T.Harpur]

I hop they will bring back the 27 inch for the same pro users the new matches are good don't get me wrong be they are way out of please like my selfs usage I have a 2019 iMac 16 ram 2tb ssd and I was plain to up grade it in 2025 but were to I stand now any help and how long u thing my iMac will still get the new os brfour they stop

 

[Jonathan.T.Harpur]

I hop they will bring back the 27 inch for the same pro users the new matches are good don't get me wrong be they are way out of please like my selfs usage I have a 2019 iMac 16 ram 2tb ssd and I was plain to up grade it in 2025 but were to I stand now any help and how long u thing my iMac will still get the new os brfour they stop

 

[JMacHack]

Yes, the Mac Studio has a better default CPU

well there’s your price differential. Nobody’s shilling here.

 

[januarydrive7]

I think Windows has matured quite a bit for development purposes though in recent times. I am a software dev and I actually use mac for my work but for a lot of my personal projects I tend to use my windows desktop and I honestly feel with the now very mature WSL2, windows is just better all round machine. It is great for development (as long as you don't have a dependency on xcode) and you can do a lot more with it (imo) as a general computer than you can with a mac (ex. gaming). Personally, in my experience, windows is a lot more functional and feels faster than macos (although windows looks objectively bad, very inconsistent ux compared to a lot more refined macos ux).

I’ve had the opposite experience, re: wsl2. There are still too many odd pathing issues that arise with some of the research-grade frameworks I and my students use. Students with windows computers have often ignored my suggestion to install a proper linux vm and spend 2-3 weeks realizing they can’t get it working with wsl2 prior to installing a Linux vm and having the whole toolchain up and running in an afternoon. In short, it depends; ymmv depending on what you’re doing.

 

[johngordon]

I feel like Mac is becoming a niche product overall. Like it was before 2005. I'm not counting iPhones, which are obviously still massive, but Mac... I haven't seen anything interesting in years. The only thing they are constantly talking about is staggering performance, but as a general user I don't care about that. What I see is uglier and uglier designs and a complete lack of innovations, also the OS is becoming worse and worse on architectural level. When was the last time you were really excited about Mac OS feature? I'm thinking Core Audio/Image/Video. APFS was too-minor of a step for the time and lacks development. Swift is a joke. God save Apple.

A niche product that is selling more than it ever has?

You prefer how something looks over how it perform?

Maybe it’s just me, but I’m quite happy with how my MBP looks.

 

[johngordon]

Why are you even using sales dynamics as an argument? People are buying because there's no alternative and the industry is stagnant (at best), not because they are inspired by the product.

Because it was un reply to a post trying to say that Macs were becoming a niche product like they were pre 2005? If they are selling more than ever, then that would suggest that not the case at all? Why do people have to be inspired by them? Can’t they just, you know, like them enough to buy them?

 

[johngordon]

If I want an Apple desktop with 32GB RAM, reasonable processing power, the capability to drive multiple monitors and just generally do a bit of everything, the entry-level Studio machine makes a lot of sense.

• Mac Pro is too large, too expensive and over-powered for me.
• Mac Mini and iMac are underpowered.
• I don't want to just use a laptop in clamshell mode.

A £2000 Mac Studio looks like it will do everything I could ever need from a computer for the foreseeable future. As someone who is self employed and works for multiple clients, doing project management consultancy, I don't think that's a bad price for my main work machine.

A lot of businesses don't use macOS as their primary end user platform, but so many are now embracing BYOD, often thanks to M365 and Google apps in the cloud. So I can have web apps for clients or Citrix sessions to clients and it doesn't matter that I'm using a Mac.

That’s pretty much where I am at too.

 

[johngordon]

So, you think that it´s totally ok for a display to be more expensive than the computer? And for all of those consumers out there wanting to buy a Mac but are on a tight budget but still want Apple only products because of integration reasons and so on - they should happily pay the amount for the Studio Display? Do you have comission on Apple displays or what?

That seems like a ridiculous argument. Computers and displays come in all soparts of variations at different price points.

Why should the most expensive display have to be cheaper than the cheapest computer?

 

[seek3r]

So, you think that it´s totally ok for a display to be more expensive than the computer? And for all of those consumers out there wanting to buy a Mac but are on a tight budget but still want Apple only products because of integration reasons and so on - they should happily pay the amount for the Studio Display? Do you have comission on Apple displays or what?

1)A display typically lasts longer than the computer it starts with
2)Of course it's ok for a display to be more expensive than a computer, it's not like there aren't cheaper options you can buy to pair with a studio. You don't have to buy Apple's display

also there are also *vastly* more expensive options out there too, if you think even Apple's higher end display is expensive you should check out what, say, displays that target true absolute color accuracy (or as close as possible anyway) or medical displays cost. There are people out there who will buy the highest end version of the studio, spending $6k and up, and then buy a display that costs ten times as much.

 

[johngordon]

Totally agree (compare the Mac Studio to a similarly specced 14" MacBook Pro, it's a price difference of <300$ - yet another price hike from Apple), but get ready for people to start shilling for their favorite trillion-dollar Scrooge McDuck company. And the comparisons price-wise to Mac Pro is nonsense, for such obvious reasons, come on.

Why does everyone have to be a “fanboy”? Why can’t people just buy Macs because, you know, they like them and they meet their needs?

 

[macOS Lynx]

There is not an instrument made that can measure how disappointing today’s event was for me. My feeling are literally hurt. I feel like an idiot for being an Apple guy for the last 17 years.

The rest of that crap they announced in fancy new colors was total crap too.

Anyone else this upset?

Nope! I think the new colors look great (kinda sad I got my 13 Pro at launch now...having a green one would be cool), I like the new iPad, glad to see a new SE because my mom needs to get a new phone and she's not a fan of the X-style, and I think the Mac Studio and Studio Display are super cool. Not something I need, but the engineering of the chips is incredible.

Sorry you're upset, but I'm excited. Can't wait to see what's next from them!