Has Apple Silicon made you reconsider the Mac platform?

[The_Interloper]

How is this a "very balanced machine" it actually does less than its predecessor, although faster

The reason it's not priced higher other than the fact it's been put in a 3 year old case is Apple will know given current sales climate what the market can handle to achieve their goals of encouraging both users and developers etc to migrate to ARM

Come on now. The MBA is absolutely a balanced machine. Don't let the loss of x86 VMs cloud judgement (although I accept it is a big loss for a minority audience, me included). But to say it "does less" than a thermally challenged predecessor with a lousy, throttling dual-core i3 is a bit much. Sure the i3 could run Boot Camp, but why bother? The performance stank.

One could also argue the M1 machines gain ARM VMs and thousands of iPadOS/iOS apps. x86 apps in Windows on ARM run better in a Parallels Beta than on a Surface Pro X. That's ludicrous! Rosetta macOS apps are even more impressive. More importantly, they gain outstanding native performance and battery life in a thin thermal envelope.

As for the "3 year old case", Microsoft have been peddling the bezel-city Surface Pro design for 6 years now. The Book 3 is the same as the two before it as well.

Apple may justifiably draw criticism for their cynical pricing and form-over-function nonsense at times, but they nailed this. Microsoft and Intel have been sleeping on the job for years and deservedly got their pants pulled down.

Let's call a spade a spade here: it's a good machine, period.

 

[SteveJUAE]

That too is a factor. But I don't think they are "too" concerned with that. After all, in the current situation they raised the price of the base (non-mini) iPhone 12 and the base iPad Air. But I am not disagreeing, that must be a factor they consider.

Regarding the first question, yes, it does less but it does it better. I think that the things it cannot do are not important for most users. Apple was incredibly smart (by 'smart' I mean *************) in cutting support for 32-bit intel in Catalina, so they didn't have to write two translation layers for the M1 while still being able to say that M1 Macs run the vast majority of Mac software!

Updated intel Macs ALSO don't support 32-bit intel anymore! In other words, Apple gave a major blow to intel's strongest advantage (compatibility) just a year before switching to ARM. And fanboys even praised them for doing so!! Apple IS evil. 😃

In the coming months compatibility will improve rapidly, the most significant thing you lose is native windows, which is important to me and other people here, but in my daily life I don't know anyone else who uses windows in a mac, except a couple of people who occasionally run it in a VM.

When I say "balanced" I mean that the base configuration of a Macbook Air, the one most non-tech people buy, is a good product. It has all the necessary specs to serve an average user well: light, portable, very long battery life, good screen and speakers, very fast and (rare for Apple) adequate RAM and storage.
A Surface Pro 7 is still sold, in its base configuration, with 4GB of RAM and 128GB of storage. An i5 Surface Pro 7 and the base Surface Book are fanless devices, even though they overheat and throttle like crazy! A Surface Laptop Go in its base configuration has 4gb of RAM and 64GB of slow, soldered storage. By the time you upgrade it to have decent specs (emphasis on "decent", not good), it almost costs like a Surface Laptop 3 (WTF). These are what I call unbalanced machines, overall quite good, but each one with some major flaw.

As we can see in recent postings many stretch their budget to buy an Apple product with the aim of keeping them say longer than 3 years

No amount of upgrades are likely to make up in shortfalls (unbalanced) lack of external support or usage of ios apps without touch etc. Go back a month and any OEM laptop at this price range would of been lambasted for such omissions, how has this changed just because of pure grunt is my gripe.

I'm not overly concerned about software compatibility for most other than bootcamp personally, but the versatility has diminished greatly for a 2020 device expectations in this price range. Even the average user is likely to consider external monitors support or fast external storage over the device lifespan

As for resale I think Apple have been on a slippery slope since 2015 with replacement parts anywhere between $2-700 for battery, KB or Logic board due to locked in SSD and Ram

It's quite likely that > 4 year old MBA/MBP repair costs exceed the base value, this makes them a poor choice in the 2nd hand market and high resale is an old legacy that is not true today in many countries, notible exceptions being US.

Interestingly as battery degrades post 3 years are we going to see multiple hours drop off rapidly ie not the usual 30 mins or an hour but 2 and 3 hours at a time as the wear kicks in

 

[SteveJUAE]

Come on now. The MBA is absolutely a balanced machine. Don't let the loss of x86 VMs cloud judgement (although I accept it is a big loss for a minority audience, me included). But to say it "does less" than a thermally challenged predecessor with a lousy, throttling dual-core i3 is a bit much. Sure the i3 could run Boot Camp, but why bother? The performance stank.

One could also argue the M1 machines gain ARM VMs and thousands of iPadOS/iOS apps. x86 apps in Windows on ARM run better in a Parallels Beta than on a Surface Pro X. That's ludicrous! Rosetta macOS apps are even more impressive. More importantly, they gain outstanding native performance and battery life in a thin thermal envelope.

As for the "3 year old case", Microsoft have been peddling the bezel-city Surface Pro design for 6 years now. The Book 3 is the same as the two before it as well.

Apple may justifiably draw criticism for their cynical pricing and form-over-function nonsense at times, but they nailed this. Microsoft and Intel have been sleeping on the job for years and deservedly got their pants pulled down.

Let's call a spade a spade here: it's a good machine, period.

Sorry I disagree the current Gen 1 is less balanced than it's predecessor

If the 2019 MBA was an SUV for the family the 2020 MBA arm has thrown out the back seats, clipped the wing mirrors just so you can get to best buys faster

I agree its great performance and snappy interface is welcomed but Gen 1 is niche and impressive but Gen 2 is likely to be more balanced for the average user

 

[mmomega]

I didn't jump on the M train yet. I still have the developer A12 mini and enjoying it.
Waiting to see what the larger models and iMacs end up being.

It is still going to be difficult justifying anything over what I have, I typically go big and use it until i can repurpose it to work or it just starts showing it's age. We'll see around summer time I'm guessing.

Depending on how they actually turn out, it may just be summer 2022 or possibly later.

The Air seems fairly impressive and would like to be able to use one for maybe a week to see how it would handle my day to day.

 

[ApplesPearsOranges]

I'm the opposite to what seems to be the popular opinion. The fact that Apple are going to be using ARM is great, I don't see it as a game changer in any way, most of us have been through this transition before. It's the small problems and cracks that I see in Apple lately which have actually pushed me away from them. My last two iMacs have both had screen burn issues, my friend has the same, had the screen replaced and still has the issue. Recently had a power supply replaced in an iMac too and they didn't clean the internal part of the screen when they removed it, finger prints and power supply dust is not a good look for a 'premium' computer. These small problems have very much started to push me away.

The pricing of Apple's services also seem very greedy, they don't ever seem to come down in price, they get more expensive with more crap that I don't need or want. It's not value adding to the Apple eco system which I would have said a long time ago, was value. They build their systems so that you aren't able to use an alternative to what they provide, you can take Photos as an example here with iCloud, I can't possibly use an alternative and that is the way Apple have made it. I understand that, it's a business, as a consumer though I would at least like some choice. They make a great app but provide no alternative options to back up or store your photos unless you use something completely different. Provide a good app / service at the right price and the rest will follow, but don't lock me in.

Remember this is all just my opinion but I see a company growing year over year in profit, that doesn't provide value to it's customers or products. The Apple community just gets taken for a ride each time and are expected to empty their pockets for the latest device or hardware that has a minimal difference, or maybe now they gave consumers a choice or alternative to something different to an Apple service. Definitely for desktop computer, I'm out, I'm leaving and I'm not looking back. Having introduced the new chips means again, I don't have a choice in something again, that being bootcamp.

Apple will have no trouble I'm sure but we need to be aware of what they're buying in to or continuing to buy in to. I want them to be successful but when you continue to make enormous profits with no added value to the customer or the services that they pay for I have trouble accepting them.

 

[c0ppo]

I completely agree with @ApplesPearsOranges .
I had dust under my iMac 27 screen, ghosting as well. Then multiple keyboard failures on my MBPs. And latest MBP 16 sounds like a jet engine when connected to external screens. On top of it all, there were multiple issues with MacOS.

My plan is to wait for a 3rd or even 4th gen of M1 chips. Then and only then will I consider Apple again. But just on laptops, for desktops I really see no point in MacOS. There I will stick with linux. And if Apple continues to lock MacOS any further, well, I really have no need for a iPadOS on my computer.

I'm not tied to their ecosystem. Only product of Apple I'm remotely interested in is MBP. iPhones are too limited for me personally, and I don't use tablets at all, no matter the OS.

So I really do hope that they don't lock down MacOS any further, since their chips look really promising.

 

[LeeW]

Let's call a spade a spade here: it's a good machine, period.

Indeed, it is a great Processor and brings lots of advantages, but, let not make a saint out of a sinner. it is a new chip in an 'old' outfit. So many issues with Apple devices over recent years outside of what changes with the M1.

Apple still has a lot to do, the M1 should only bee seen as the start of many things they need to improve.

 

[canesalato]

I completely agree with @ApplesPearsOranges .
I had dust under my iMac 27 screen, ghosting as well. Then multiple keyboard failures on my MBPs. And latest MBP 16 sounds like a jet engine when connected to external screens. On top of it all, there were multiple issues with MacOS.

My plan is to wait for a 3rd or even 4th gen of M1 chips. Then and only then will I consider Apple again. But just on laptops, for desktops I really see no point in MacOS. There I will stick with linux. And if Apple continues to lock MacOS any further, well, I really have no need for a iPadOS on my computer.

I'm not tied to their ecosystem. Only product of Apple I'm remotely interested in is MBP. iPhones are too limited for me personally, and I don't use tablets at all, no matter the OS.

So I really do hope that they don't lock down MacOS any further, since their chips look really promising.

I totally agree with both you and @ApplesPearsOranges. I have a new M1 MBP (didn't plan on buying it, it was a Christmas present). The software, to me, is so restricting and beyond annoying. I really hate Big Sur. But the hardware... It's great! I like the hardware. Not just the processor, I think it's a delightful machine. With a touchscreen it would be perfect.Yes, the design is nothing new, but not many products are so refined, overall.

The Big question is reliability which has been ****** for the last 7 years. I cannot comment on iMacs, but I come from 2 MBA and 1 MBP with fried motherboards. Trust is quick to lose but hard and long to regain. That said, many of the issues with mac hardware came from the fact that Apple made their Intel devices run very warm, compared to the competition. They chose to let the processor reach ~100 Celsius degrees, while most other manufacturers adopted much more conservative strategies.
But the M1 is totally different, so...we'll see.

 

[rui no onna]

Indeed, it is a great Processor and brings lots of advantages, but, let not make a saint out of a sinner. it is a new chip in an 'old' outfit. So many issues with Apple devices over recent years outside of what changes with the M1.

The chip's not that new either. They started working on these on the iPad Pros. They just finally reached acceptable performance for Macs, and the software side figured out with Rosetta 2 and killing backwards compatibility on macOS.

 

[Queen6]

I agree. For people who care about reliability, I would go with the 16GB models...

Nonsense, my 2014 13" was used heavily professionally for it's first two years. Subsequently it's sat as media server only ever being shutdown when we moved house, last I checked the 512 SSD had written over 35TB of data and continues to do so...

Reliability my arse, SSD's are way more reliable than any HDD. 8GB is more than enough for the vast majority of applications with M1, unless a specific application benefits from the additional RAM to increase productivity. By the time the SSD is starting to fail, the computer will be well an truly obsolete...

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

Sorry I disagree the current Gen 1 is less balanced than it's predecessor

If the 2019 MBA was an SUV for the family the 2020 MBA arm has thrown out the back seats, clipped the wing mirrors just so you can get to best buys faster

I agree its great performance and snappy interface is welcomed but Gen 1 is niche and impressive but Gen 2 is likely to be more balanced for the average user

Told you, need to buy and see. Only then you'll see the full potential. M1 exceeds 16" MBP performance in a 13" form factor, no heating, no throttling. The X86 SW workarounds are coming fast and for the entry price who cares in the professional realm? Even the base Air is extremely potent. The M1 flies, even with multiple layers of emulation, rest you can live with.

My 13" M1 MBP can match and easily outperforms this hex core Asus notebook, with the latter being one of the fastest in class. One is plugged into a 230W power adapter, one is running on the internal battery, speaks volumes...

OS X natively is mind blowing in speed of execution. As you all too well know I've been very critical of Apple and for good reason, equally should I have the need I'd easily drop $3K-$4K on a 16" MBP with Apple silicon as you wont have notebook performance, you'll likely have desktop workstation performance given M1.

Only hard limitations are the lack of multiple display output, port constraint & user expansion, (it's Apple) and reduced external SSD speed. Intel & AMD don't get moving they risk being consigned to history, even MS is working towards moving Azure to ARM....

Would I like a notebook with this level of performance and efficiency with user expandable storage, RAM and a comprehensive port solution? Absolutely, however it simply doesn't exist, nor likely to do so. Yet as you see a 13" Ultrabook blast past a 17" desktop replacement, one is compelled to pause for thought and explore the potential...

Q-6

 

[canesalato]

Nonsense, my 2014 13" was used heavily professionally for it's first two years. Subsequently it's sat as media server only ever being shutdown when we moved house, last I checked the 512 SSD had written over 35TB of data and continues to do so...

Reliability my arse, SSD's are way more reliable than any HDD. 8GB is more than enough for the vast majority of applications with M1, unless a specific application benefits from the additional RAM to increase productivity. By the time the SSD is starting to fail, the computer will be well an truly obsolete...

Q-6

Ok, but please mind your manners. 😮

 

[1240766]

The M1 is my first Mac. I work on a VDI, but my personal has always been Linux and Windows, til I tried the M1 Mac. I had just sold an XPS13 i7 8gb/512gb which was 3-4 years old to get the new XPS13 but decided to give Mac M1 a go since I am a big fan of ARM chips, I kick myself for not trying a Mac earlier... I can’t say for any Mac before the M1, but I will be hard pressed to get anything else from now on.

 

[1240766]

Another note, the M1 is the first, years from now it will hold value 😉

 

[SteveJUAE]

Told you, need to buy and see. Only then you'll see the full potential. M1 exceeds 16" MBP performance in a 13" form factor, no heating, no throttling. The X86 SW workarounds are coming fast and for the entry price who cares in the professional realm? Even the base Air is extremely potent. The M1 flies, even with multiple layers of emulation, rest you can live with.

My 13" M1 MBP can match and easily outperforms this hex core Asus notebook, with the latter being one of the fastest in class. One is plugged into a 230W power adapter, one is running on the internal battery, speaks volumes...

OS X natively is mind blowing in speed of execution. As you all too well know I've been very critical of Apple and for good reason, equally should I have the need I'd easily drop $3K-$4K on a 16" MBP with Apple silicon as you wont have notebook performance, you'll likely have desktop workstation performance given M1.

Only hard limitations are the lack of multiple display output, port constraint & user expansion, (it's Apple) and reduced external SSD speed. Intel & AMD don't get moving they risk being consigned to history, even MS is working towards moving Azure to ARM....

Would I like a notebook with this level of performance and efficiency with user expandable storage, RAM and a comprehensive port solution? Absolutely, however it simply doesn't exist, nor likely to do so. Yet as you see a 13" Ultrabook blast past a 17" desktop replacement, one is compelled to pause for thought and explore the potential...

Q-6

I don't doubt M1 capability for a moment it's this bit I don't like that everyone seems to ignore over raw power gains :

"Only hard limitations are the lack of multiple display output, port constraint & user expansion, (it's Apple) and reduced external SSD speed."

The software quirks will always exist but it's almost like we should be thankful they even gave us BT let alone the other constraints

I'm very hopeful for next gen will resolve some issues on connectivity etc but I do not believe this 1st gen is a keeper yet for the average user

 

[Queen6]

Ok, but please mind your manners. 😮

Is what it is, what your stating is simply inaccurate and that can result in people over buying, paying more for something they simply don't need. Unless a specific application benefits and accelerates the process with 16GB.

I will use my own 13" M1 MBP professionally, unless an application requires 8GB+ of directly benefits there will be zero advantage of 16GB with Apple's unified RAM. As for manners, think before you post and get your facts right. Swap files on todays SSD's are not an issue. My own M1 MBP is simply a testbed, yet running emulation, within emulation the base model with 8GB RAM has yet to be of issue...

For engineering simulation I'll likely opt for 16/32 once the 16" MBP is released, equally the base M1 MBP remains to impress out performing a 17" W10 desktop replacement. Don't take it to heart, just move on and move forward

Q-6

 

[canesalato]

Is what it is, what your stating is simply inaccurate and that can result in people over buying, paying more for something they simply don't need. Unless a specific application benefits and accelerates the process with 16GB.

I will use my own 13" M1 MBP professionally, unless an application requires 8GB+ of directly benefits there will be zero advantage of 16GB with Apple's unified RAM. As for manners, think before you post and get your facts right. Swap files on todays SSD's are not an issue. My own M1 MBP is simply a testbed, yet running emulation, within emulation the base model with 8GB RAM has yet to be of issue...

For engineering simulation I'll likely opt for 16/32 once the 16" MBP is released, equally the base M1 MBP remains to impress out performing a 17" W10 desktop replacement. Don't take it to heart, just move on and move forward

Q-6

I disagree, but I won't discuss further, let's just move forward, like you suggest.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Nonsense, my 2014 13" was used heavily professionally for it's first two years. Subsequently it's sat as media server only ever being shutdown when we moved house, last I checked the 512 SSD had written over 35TB of data and continues to do so...

Reliability my arse, SSD's are way more reliable than any HDD. 8GB is more than enough for the vast majority of applications with M1, unless a specific application benefits from the additional RAM to increase productivity. By the time the SSD is starting to fail, the computer will be well an truly obsolete...

Q-6

Yep, but in the M1 models the SSD is still not replaceable. When it fails one is screwed (or replace the whole motherboard, which is basically the same as being screwed). For any other machine I would not worry about the life span of any SDD in it, as long as I can replace it.

 

[Queen6]

I don't doubt M1 capability for a moment it's this bit I don't like that everyone seems to ignore over raw power gains :

"Only hard limitations are the lack of multiple display output, port constraint & user expansion, (it's Apple) and reduced external SSD speed."

The software quirks will always exist but it's almost like we should be thankful they even gave us BT let alone the other constraints

I'm very hopeful for next gen will resolve some issues on connectivity etc but I do not believe this 1st gen is a keeper yet for the average user

Average user likely doesn't use or need multiple extremal displays. The SW realm will clearly rotate ever more to ARM irrespective of the vendor as X86 is clearly EOL...

SW adoption will accelerate faster than you can imagine as the world switches to ARM. The power savings in isolation for big business will flip the coin, let alone the computational advantages.

1st Gen who cares, as they will hold their value on the secondary market, employed professionally will pay for themselves hundreds of times over and then some. Ultimately the computer is just a tool as long as the device is reliable and does what's required. To date the M1 Mac's do exactly that so I have little to no concern...

Intel & AMD don't get their finger out their collective arse's, they will suffer the same fate as Nokia, who would have thought that back in the day...

Personally I applaud Apple for forcing the step change, as mark my words this is a definitive advancement in computing. I remember an insider stating that Apple would step change the world, we all thought of consumer toys. In actuality it's M1 and just the start of the journey...

The M1 MBP is what we always wanted of a computer, applications & commands run near instantaneously. Apple got it right and credit where credit is due...

Q-6

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Average user likely doesn't use or need multiple extremal displays. The SW realm will clearly rotate ever more to ARM irrespective of the vendor as X86 is clearly EOL...

SW adoption will accelerate faster than you can imagine as the world switches to ARM. The power savings in isolation for big business will flip the coin, let alone the computational advantages.

1st Gen who cares, as they will hold their value on the secondary market, employed professionally will pay for themselves hundreds of times over and then some. Ultimately the computer is just a tool as long as the device is reliable and does what's required. To date the M1 Mac's do exactly that so I have little to no concern...

Intel & AMD don't get their finger out their collective arse's, they will suffer the same fate as Nokia, who would have thought that back in the day...

Personally I applaud Apple for forcing the step change, as mark my words this is a definitive advancement in computing. I remember an insider stating that Apple would step change the world, we all thought of consumer toys. In actuality it's M1 and just the start of the journey...

The M1 MBP is what we always wanted of a computer, applications & commands run near instantaneously. Apple got it right and credit where credit is due...

Q-6

Who are you and where is the Queen6 I know ?? . Nothing to repair and nothing to replace? But credit where credit is due??? Sorry, just joking. But are you still Queen6??

 

[Queen6]

Yep, but in the M1 models the SSD is still not replaceable. When it fails one is screwed (or replace the whole motherboard, which is basically the same as being screwed). In any other machine I would not worry about the life span of any SDD in it, as long as I can replace it.

Yes a it would be far more preferable to have user upgradable storage certainly with the Intel Mac's. The new ARM M1 Mac's are a different matter as the RAM is unified being on the SOC. TBH I don't care as if one applies the "Bathtub" theory the SSD will either fail in the first few weeks of use or when the computer is well and truly outdated.

TBH one of the last considerations today is the SSD as I've yet to have one fail and likely written hundreds of TB. M1 MBP can replace my 17" desktop replacement, that's a serious consideration...

Q-6

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Yes a it would be far more preferable to have user upgradable storage certainly with the Intel Mac's. The new ARM M1 Mac's are a different matter as the RAM is unified being on the SOC. TBH I don't care as if one applies the "Bathtub" theory the SSD will either fail in the first few weeks of use or when the computer is well and truly outdated.

TBH one of the last considerations today is the SSD as I've yet to have one fail and likely written hundreds of TB. M1 MBP can replace my 17" desktop replacement, that's a serious consideration...

Q-6

I agree. Ignore my next post , that was meant as a joke. Not the best joke in the world, I know...

 

[rui no onna]

Yes a it would be far more preferable to have user upgradable storage certainly with the Intel Mac's. The new ARM M1 Mac's are a different matter as the RAM is unified being on the SOC. TBH I don't care as if one applies the "Bathtub" theory the SSD will either fail in the first few weeks of use or when the computer is well and truly outdated.

TBH one of the last considerations today is the SSD as I've yet to have one fail and likely written hundreds of TB. M1 MBP can replace my 17" desktop replacement, that's a serious consideration...

It's not so much unified RAM as it is the storage controller being embedded on the SoC and addressing NAND flash chip packages directly. They did purchase Anobit for that.

 

[Queen6]

Who are you and where is the Queen6 I know ?? . Nothing to repair and nothing to replace? But credit where credit is due??? Sorry, just joking. But are you still Queen6??

You cant, they are throw away items. Yet you need to understand that the performance to cost ratio differential has significantly changed now that a 13" M1 MBP outperforms a 16" Intel MBP.

If you pay $1500 for a 13" MBP and it turns 200/250 times it's cost per annum, do you really care? My problem with Apple was reliability, usabilty, performance and basically ignoring their Pro user base, all of which bit them in the arse.

Above all the value is back, when you use an M1 you get that's how all computers should be. Previously with the Mac I'd need to invest in hot throttling mess with questionable KB reliability at best in the $3K-$4K range. Today a base 13" M1 MBP kills it, with no known performance or reliability issues at less than half the cost.

Yes this hex core Asus remains far more flexible, equally it's astonishing to experience the M1 MBP. The Asus will rapidly heat, with all 3 fans ramping up, the M1 will complete faster with little if any fan noise. The bigger takeaway is the M1 runs the same on or off the mains supply and easily maintains double figures, while the Asus runs slower off the mains supply and will tear through it's battery in less than two hours...

Be assured Apple is onto something. I bought my M1 as a testbed to see what Apple silicon can do, fully expecting it to "choke" That doesn't happen the M1 SOC simply digs in and goes. This hex core Asus is very likely a binned down CPU as it takes a deep undervolt and tears through data without issue at 100% load & frequency, it's clocked as being 3rd/4th fastest globally.

M1 MBP solidly beats the Asus, running the same on both you get the WOW factor with the 13" MBP, then you think the Mac is running emulation within emulation. M1 is indeed a very potent solution, yet only the first step in the journey...

The rest is down to Intel & AMD, experiencing M1 first hand X86/X64 is EOL and then some...

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

DP