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Has Apple Silicon made you reconsider the Mac platform?
- Thread starter The_Interloper
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MS is already developing their own silicon. Will only be a matter of time before they have Windows laptops running their own chipset
So , yeah, for those who needs an 1000-1500$ laptop, there is no competition....and also for those who are not slaved by windows and needs to be stuck on that platform or into any specific OS
Sure there is, I'm not knocking the M1 Macs, but one size does not fit all and there are plenty of valid reasons to pick something other then a Mac
Indeed, the M1 has made Macs better, it has not made PCs worse.
Plenty of Windows laptops in the sub $1,500 range that is perfectly good, don't thermal throttle (biggest complaint of previous generations macs) and push out just as much if not better performance than the M1 when considering real-world usage, not relying on benchmarks. With the arrival of the 16" with the M1X or whatever they call it, that may change.
This whole position that is being suggested in here that Windows users are going to jump ship from Windows to Mac just because of the M1 is nonsense, sure some will be curious, only some.
The three biggest reasons Windows users don't use a Mac is macOS, Cost and lock-in, nothing has changed in that regard.
LeeW is slyly circumnavigating the true reason.
Let's refresh what an operating system is. It's a big complicated piece of software that lets other big complicated pieces of software co-exist (relatively) peacefully on the same system.
That's what an operating system is.
It could be something like a web browser or media library management tool. Productivity software, photo editor or video editor. Device-specific software like drivers for a piece of particular audio hardware. Stuff like that.
I don't have a Windows machine to run Windows. I have it to run programs that run on Windows systems better than they do on macOS or Linux.
Web browsing? Coin toss.
Playing Half-Life: Lynx with my Oculus Rift S VR HMD? Well Windows, duh. It won't run on Macs.
So often at MR (or pretty much any Apple related site), there are inane questions like "Which computer should I get" while the inquirer doesn't even mention what they plan to do with the system.
Why don't I upgrade my Mac mini 2018 (running Mojave) to a Big Sur M1 Mac? Because I still need to do a bunch of things on my Mac that M1 systems aren't going to handle smoothly.
In a couple of years, they should. But not today, not tomorrow, not next month.
The last thing I want to do is struggle with getting something to run on an M1 Mac that already works relatively well on an Intel Mac.
But for all of you M1 Mac users, please keep sending in those bug reports. I am counting on developers to address your issues so when I do upgrade to Apple Silicon Macs, the software ecosystem (macOS, first-party apps, third-party apps, etc.) will be much more robust and stable.
Thank you!
Let's refresh what an operating system is. It's a big complicated piece of software that lets other big complicated pieces of software co-exist (relatively) peacefully on the same system.
That's what an operating system is.
It could be something like a web browser or media library management tool. Productivity software, photo editor or video editor. Device-specific software like drivers for a piece of particular audio hardware. Stuff like that.
I don't have a Windows machine to run Windows. I have it to run programs that run on Windows systems better than they do on macOS or Linux.
Web browsing? Coin toss.
Playing Half-Life: Lynx with my Oculus Rift S VR HMD? Well Windows, duh. It won't run on Macs.
So often at MR (or pretty much any Apple related site), there are inane questions like "Which computer should I get" while the inquirer doesn't even mention what they plan to do with the system.
Why don't I upgrade my Mac mini 2018 (running Mojave) to a Big Sur M1 Mac? Because I still need to do a bunch of things on my Mac that M1 systems aren't going to handle smoothly.
In a couple of years, they should. But not today, not tomorrow, not next month.
The last thing I want to do is struggle with getting something to run on an M1 Mac that already works relatively well on an Intel Mac.
But for all of you M1 Mac users, please keep sending in those bug reports. I am counting on developers to address your issues so when I do upgrade to Apple Silicon Macs, the software ecosystem (macOS, first-party apps, third-party apps, etc.) will be much more robust and stable.
Thank you!
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The true reason is the reason the individual user chooses one over the other, none of the reasons is wrong.
Preferring Windows over macOS as an OS
Choosing to pay $500 for a laptop that does what you want over a minimum $999 that may or may not.
Even more likely with the M1 & future devices to be forced into an expensive out of warranty repair.
The true cost of ownership is high.
And the reasons go on.
My point is not whether M1 devices are good/bad, simply that it is not going to make Windows users move.
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Yes, an operating system's job is to run programs and for many of us, windows has what we need or runs those programs better.
Yet with that said, I'll also say that personal preference is a valid reason. Many people like how they interact with a given OS, whether its Linux, Windows, or MacOS. I'm sure for the vast majority of consumers that's probably not a factor but for tech enthusiasts such as us, I believe it is. For me, I do prefer windows, and without getting into the nitty gritty or turning this discussion into some sort of windows vs. MacOS battle, its clear that UX with the OS is a factor.
The M1 Mac is a fantastic machine, but unlike @Serban55 opinion that people who use windows are enslaved, its a personal preference. I enjoy using windows, and love the fact I can customize or change things, or do things with the OS. That doesn't make MacOS worse, just rather I prefer this over that
Who knows, I may very well be tempted with M1X 16" MBP when it comes out ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No doubt the OS is a vehicle that you need to get to the ultimate goal, I have always said that an OS is not as important as the task you need to achieve and as such should blend into the background rather than foreground.
I still prefer the macOS UX over Windows but then they are different for clear reasons, different does not make one worse than the other but personal preference will often prevail, nothing wrong with that.
I ordered the M1 right off the bat, I wanted to see what Apple had done and it is really impressive, only in that it has fixed issues that should not have needed to be fixed. Paying Apple yet again to get out of their failures of the past.
For now, I am staying with Windows, the new M1 Mac Mini has been relegated to less important tasks. Maybe in time, that will change. But I can't turn away from how much better my PC can be all I need rather than most of what I need which is what the Mac is.
I still prefer the macOS UX over Windows but then they are different for clear reasons, different does not make one worse than the other but personal preference will often prevail, nothing wrong with that.
I ordered the M1 right off the bat, I wanted to see what Apple had done and it is really impressive, only in that it has fixed issues that should not have needed to be fixed. Paying Apple yet again to get out of their failures of the past.
For now, I am staying with Windows, the new M1 Mac Mini has been relegated to less important tasks. Maybe in time, that will change. But I can't turn away from how much better my PC can be all I need rather than most of what I need which is what the Mac is.
Maybe i was missunderstood
Not on windows specific, but in one OS
For me for 1000-1500$ m1 for now means time saving..time is the preference for me and not the mac or windows pc or a device, but time
And for my business to buy 1500$ /device that can run faster what i need, and saving even 10 min/hour that means 10 min of freedome gain to enjoy with my family or to have a trip or take more contracts
So, for me, it doesnt matter the brand, i will always choice the fastest on the market for that price. Because i can adapt and choose the apps , im not stuck on a specific app for a specific platform etc
Hope that now i was more explicit
Happppy new year in advance
If you don't mind me asking, what is it you do that makes the M1 significantly quicker in doing it?
Perhaps but when you post stuff about enslaved by windows, one can't help but think you're pro Macs at all cost.
Regardless happy new year
So aside from the ability to build your own system (which is a major advantage with Linux & Windows), what about Linux suits your needs better?
Agreed, the UX is definitely a factor. Personally I hate the Windows UX though it has been getting better. I hate the Windows command line (it's not Unix), drive letters, NTFS not allowing me to delete a file because some app has it open. The look and feel of Windows 10 is a mess IMHO. All that said, WSL2 is great particularly for Docker performance. Being able to run Linux VMs without additional software (though Ubuntu Multipass works great on Macs).
I can't imagine ever using a $500 laptop, all the Windows laptops I like cost over $1000. Given the performance and build quality, the M1 MBA seems really cheap to me (a less functional i7 Chromebook Pixel with 256gb of storage is $1400). A Windows laptop doesn't do every thing I want either. It won't run Xcode, Pixelmator Pro, iMessage or FaceTime for example. I don't use Final Cut but some people love it and it only runs on a Mac. Web developers need to test their code on Safari, can't do that on a Windows PC but you can run Microsoft Edge on a Mac. You can also develop and run .NET apps on a Mac.
Apple does provide some software for Windows to allow access to iCloud resources but I have found it doesn't work that well. Microsoft does a better job providing software for Macs.
I don't hate Windows, but it's not hard to dislike it when macOS demonstrates how much better it could be in areas. But overall I really don't mind it.
I could do what I do (web development) on a $500 machine, I just chose to use more expensive devices like you. I have many developer friends that will replace a laptop once it fails, even if it takes 10 years to do so or it really isn't fit for purpose. They see it as a tool and as long as it gets the job done nothing else matters, each to their own.
Aside from that, there is a significant number of people out there that can't afford much more and manage just fine.
To be fair Google is more about meeting the needs of the few with this kind of machine, just like Microsoft does with the likes of the Surface Book. They both know the sales number are going to be low so therefore the cost will be high.
Not many that will want a Chromebook with an i7 and 4k display simple due to its overall limitations. The majority will buy at the lower end which is really where the Chromebook market is. Don't get Mr wrong though, the Chromebook if it fits your needs is a cracking device, I have the Acer 314 and it's a little flying machine.
We really don't, any developer that needs to open their site in every web browser to test it needs to go back and learn some new skills.
I do miss this on Windows.
The problem with cheap Windows laptops is they have poor quality screens, poor quality keyboards and horrible trackpads. For me that makes them barely usable. A $500 laptop wouldn't last me 10 years because I would probably throw it against a wall.
I don't get your point on not testing your website on all the major browser engines. If you just test on chrome (for example), how do you know your website will work correctly on Safari or Netscape? I have experienced plenty of sites that work correctly on Chrome but not on Safari.
There are multiple reasons. From hardware (ports, keyboard, etc.), to software and the OS itself.
On software part there are multiple terminals that are way better than any on MacOS. I'm using terminology atm. Unity game engine also works great on Linux now (but still better on MacOS to be honest), but Godot engine works way better in Linux. And I have to use the server variant on Linux anyway.
OS is the biggest factor. I can customize it to my liking without any limits. But tiling window managers are the best thing I have ever used. No need for a mouse anymore, almost never. I have also removed window title bars to gain more space on my monitors.
I don't really have to wait for Apple to change/fix stuff, I can swap DE as I want to, or even install 3rd party stuff that customizes the OS myself. Open Source is a big advantage imho, even though I haven't touched any OS code at all.
Could I still use MacOS without any issues? Of course. It's just a personal preference that I now enjoy linux way more than I enjoy MacOS. There are disadvantages of course. But I just find that linux works better for me.
I know it will work on all browsers because I ensure it is tested on all browsers that matter, that does not mean I need to have safari to do that, all I need is one browser, it's part of being a developer and using the right tools.
You are right, there are plenty of websites that don't work correctly on all of them, that is more about the developer of that site. Whether they choose to make it compatible or just don't understand how to do it. Perhaps even a hint of laziness.
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How are you testing on all browsers that matter using only one browser?
So hardware aside, it's basically the window manager and terminal software that driving your preference. Personally I just use the stock MacOS terminal that works fine for me. One big advantage for me over the Linux and Windows equivalents I have used is the cut and paste shortcuts are consistent with every other application on the Mac.
On hardware, the desktop Macs still have a reasonable selection of ports (for me at least) and I don't use an Apple keyboard. I use a mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX switches.
Again, that is what being a web developer is all about, understanding browser differences, using the right methods to reset browser differences, tools to test cross-browser compatibility and so on. Anyone calling themselves a developer that has to open multiple browsers as the only way to understand if it works is really not a developer. Well, there are a couple of exceptions to that and you may want to test specific functionality within a target browser but that is another discussion.
Anyway, this thread is not about that though.
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There's a saying in software engineering: if it isn't tested, it's broken.
Tools have bugs too.