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klymr

macrumors 65816
May 16, 2007
1,451
103
Utah
Are there any guides on how many stops to bracket for an HDR? If I am doing 3 shots, would I do -1,0,+1 or -2,0,+2 etc. :confused:


All the ones I did were -2,-1,0,+1,+2. IF you are only using three shots, it is best to probably go -2,0,+2 because you'll get more range that way. Just play with it, it's a learning experience in and of itself.

Oh, and for the record, I don't own a DSLR (yet). I borrowed someone's Nikon D70 for the weekend which I had never used and had to teach myself how to use on top of figuring out this HDR stuff. Just play around with different settings and enjoy until you get something out you like. Nothing like a hands on way to learn. :D
 

Dfndr90

macrumors regular
Nov 27, 2006
225
0
Took a few shots this morning on the way out of the house. Downloaded Photomatrix just to see what all the fuss is about. I'll definitely have to practice to decide if I want to drop the C-note for the full version. Very first attempt, and without any real playing with the settings. What should I do differently (other than not shoot with the sun right above my subject, and not get so many clouds when the wind is blowing hard)?


I see you live on Mud Island. I used to live in Memphis for a couple of years. Great photo of the pyramid by the way.

Matt...
 

Dfndr90

macrumors regular
Nov 27, 2006
225
0
here are some of my HDR photos... the exterior photos are a 3-shot composite taken with bracketing at 3 stops, the interior shot taken at 1 stop intervals combining 7 shots:

1.jpg


That must be the Ghery building at case western, I love that place. I miss that Aribica coffe house, it was one of my favorites


Matt...
 

pdxflint

macrumors 68020
Aug 25, 2006
2,407
14
Oregon coast
I love a lot of the HDR images I see here, including valdore's. They are simply beautiful. I even plan to experiment with this technique of post processing to see what happens. Having said that... <~ahem..~> very few of them look realistic to me, not that that's a criticism, by the way. It's just that they take on an exaggerated, surrealistic, almost graphically animated quality like seen in Pixar's cgi stuff. It's a neat creative artform. Not everyone likes it, but who cares? I like it, but I also like specular, sometimes blown highlights of a seriously backlit image, where this technique would just "ruin" the effect I captured on film or the digital sensor. I like dark shadows in certain pics. I also like extreme tonality range in b/w landscapes, ala A. Adams. It's all a form of manipulation, so it's all fair game. So, let's not get our shorts in a bind when someone questions the approach, whatever it is, or says they don't like a particular style. There's room for everyone. The thing about some of the seriously "cooked" HDR cityscapes is that they do begin to resemble something other than what most of us (in the past) thought of as what a photograph normally looked like, partly because of the dramatic tonality, moody colors, textures, and (here's what I'm still trying to figure out) the apparent reduction in sharpness (which can suggest computer graphics, games, cgi effects, etc.) Compared to what I would call HD (hi-def) photos, like large format film work you see in print advertisements, most HDR work I've seen takes on a completely different character. I guess if HDR is used to gently bring out shadow detail and restrain blown highlights, it might not be recognizable as a "style," but would be an application of HDR, regardless. So, in the end it's really all about an artist/photographer using whatever means at his disposal to create an image that expresses what he wants. That's why I love photography, because there is no one, single philosophy that can claim it.

To all: keep the HDR experiments coming, they do make me think and contemplate, which is good. Cheers.
 

baby duck monge

macrumors 68000
Feb 16, 2003
1,570
0
Memphis, TN
I see you live on Mud Island. I used to live in Memphis for a couple of years. Great photo of the pyramid by the way.

Matt...

Indeed. Just moved there about 2.5 weeks ago. It's a nice change from living out east - especially working downtown. And thanks for the kind comment about my picture!
 

Dfndr90

macrumors regular
Nov 27, 2006
225
0
Indeed. Just moved there about 2.5 weeks ago. It's a nice change from living out east - especially working downtown. And thanks for the kind comment about my picture!

Don't tell me you work for FedEx! That would be too funny.


Matt...
 

Cooknn

macrumors 68020
Aug 23, 2003
2,111
0
Fort Myers, FL
lol. Although I think that photo looks great, I wouldnt say it looks "realistic" It looks definitely video game ish.
You want realistic? If I win the lottery tomorrow night I'm buying a Leaf AFi-75 which comes bundled with one an Aptus 75S Digital Camera Back. Can you say 12 F-Stops of Dynamic Range?! That's HDR ;)

No word yet on release date or price. I'm thinking the price will be in excess of $40K :eek:

AFi.jpg
 

jo1970

macrumors newbie
Oct 28, 2007
18
0
Sydney Australia
lol. Although I think that photo looks great, I wouldnt say it looks "realistic" It looks definitely video game ish.

When I said more realistic I was referring to the way that I would usually do HDR. It isn't "realistic" in the scheme of things but for me personally it is slightly more realistic than some of my other HDR pics.

This is along the lines of what I like to do. This one is very video gameish
 

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valdore

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 9, 2007
1,262
0
Kansas City, Missouri. USA
That HDR of the train actually looks fairly realistic to me, anyway

Thankyou Valdore.

Another fantastic photo from you. I think your work is amazing. It has definately inspired myself and many others also.


Thanks! ...although I must admit that hyper tone mapped photo I posted above is rather "over the top." :) ...I must reassure the peeps that that's not how I would treat all my HDRs, but it sure is a lot of fun anyway. :)
 

seenew

macrumors 68000
Dec 1, 2005
1,569
1
Brooklyn
Hopefully this won't get me burned at the stake…

Does anyone feel like HDR is a little bit of cheating? I think it's a great effect, and produces some really great results, but IMO if you can't capture the scene in one exposure, using a program to correct for this incapability (usually of the equipment, not the photographer) is just wrong.

My photographic ethics run by what could and couldn't (can and can't) be done in a darkroom–so if there was some way to do HDR in a darkroom, it's photography straight up; otherwise, I think it's stepping away from photography and into modern art.

If you know so much about darkrooms, then you'd know that film can capture so much more tonal range than current digital sensors are capable of capturing. In a darkroom you could indeed produce images this fantastic and surreal; provided you are good at dodging and burning. It is a bit like you said, you still have to capture the image correctly at first, but in film it's MUCH more forgiving, ESPECIALLY black and white.

HDR is not cheating, if anything, it's leveling the dynamic range playing field. However, I have to agree with the posters who said there are times when it is not appropriate and times when it hurts more than helps. I won't name names or quote pictures, but a lot of the photos posted in this thread were terrible. I looked at them and asked myself, "why did they feel the need to use the HDR process here?"

Scenes that don't naturally have a large tonal range do NOT need to be processed in HDR. It is defeating the entire purpose of the process. You should only use the HDR process when a scene contains pure blacks and pure whites, and a large amount of tones in between (or should I say VALUES). If your scene is all evenly lit, DON'T USE HDR.

It's not that hard, guys. I don't mean to sound harsh-- well, I do. But it's all about educating yourself. If you don't even know what dynamic range is, look it up. Read about film and digital sensors. Learn about it. THEN use it, IF YOU NEED TO.

Also, the reason a lot of HDR photos look so hyper-realistic is that we have been trained to accept the shortcomings of photography and what can be captured with a camera (film or digital). The human eye is capable of perceiving many more values at once than any film or sensor. A properly produced HDR image should more closely resemble what the scene actually looked like to the photographer, or the viewer if they were to be there. I will show you my example.

Boring as it seems, I thought the fog and this deforested landscape was so beautiful that I pulled my car over, and climbed a fence to shoot it. The first picture is what the camera was able to record, at EV 0, the most accurate exposure it could come up with.
hdrNot.jpg


pretty boring, right?
Well, since I was seeing a whole lot more color and values than the camera was, I decided to bracket the shot. I ended up taking seven shots; normal, +1, +2, +3, and -1, -2, -3.
The result is almost exactly what I saw, and I think you could better understand why I stopped, by looking at this shot, rather than the single exposure.
hdrColor.jpg



I would liken the second image to a painting, rather than a videogame still. Not as a compliment to my photographic abilities (it's certainly not a stellar shot), but in relation to the colors and values. Since painters usually work from life and not from photos, they capture the colors their eyes see, and are not limited by a camera's abilities (or lack thereof). Look at older landscape paintings. None would argue against their realism, yet they do not look like photographs-- they look better.
 

klymr

macrumors 65816
May 16, 2007
1,451
103
Utah
Anyways, klymr all I have to say it wow, what a great shot...your brothers wife is gonna get a sweet piece or artwork! It would probably look awesome in B&W too.

Thanks! Here is what it looks like in black & white, and also with a selenium tone effect (maybe a little strong) I did real quick in photoshop. Enjoy!
 

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Doylem

macrumors 68040
Dec 30, 2006
3,858
3,642
Wherever I hang my hat...
I've been reading the impassioned posts. It's obvious that people have strong feelings about HDR, which is fair enough. I have no ethical problems with HDR, but I side with those who say that too many HDR pix are "over-cooked".

A couple of posters have talked about processing "the hell out of a picture" and tone-mapping "the hell out of a picture". Sounds a little bit macho to me. I know the effects that can be achieved with HDR , just as I know that a slider - in a Spinal Tap kind of way - can go right up to 11.

I agree, too, that the best use of HDR is probably to recreate what we originally saw with our own eyes (and doesn't digital photography prove what amazing instruments are eyes are!). Conversely, spicing up poor pictures, for a spurious kind of effect, seems pointless to me.

The proof, as always, is in the imagery. While there are some pix on this thread that I like, I'm afraid that too many of them just hurt my eyes.

Anyway, here's a shot from yesterday. I've got into the habit of carrying a lightweight tripod, so winter pix can be shot with my usual ISO 100. There was some interesting light yesterday, just not a lot of it. HDR seems to help this kind of 'contre jour' shot: shooting towards the sun... though the sun isn't actually in shot. HDR evened out the lighting a bit: keeping some detail in the shadows as well as the mossy greens.

claifeuo7.jpg
 

klymr

macrumors 65816
May 16, 2007
1,451
103
Utah
If you know so much about darkrooms, then you'd know that film can capture so much more tonal range than current digital sensors are capable of capturing. In a darkroom you could indeed produce images this fantastic and surreal; provided you are good at dodging and burning. It is a bit like you said, you still have to capture the image correctly at first, but in film it's MUCH more forgiving, ESPECIALLY black and white.

I've used my fair share of film that was pretty dull to say the least. It all depends of the film you use too I'd say. Different types of film captures light differently in my experience.

Here is a shot I took using the cheap Fujicolor SUPERIA200 ISO 200 film that I scanned on the computer (you can see the white bar at the top and bottom). It has a lot more color than some of the stuff I've seen come from a digital camera. I've also had some cheaper film that was completely bland when I had the images printed.
 

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baby duck monge

macrumors 68000
Feb 16, 2003
1,570
0
Memphis, TN
Don't tell me you work for FedEx! That would be too funny.


Matt...

No. I'm a law student and also work in a law office downtown. The only way I will be working for FedEx is if I end up in their General Counsel's office somewhere down the road (and that's out East). And my wife is an attorney working in an office downtown. Her morning commute to work is about 5 minutes.

Composite of 5 shots taken with the camera resting on a guide's shoulder. Taken in 2006 and previously posted in Picture of the Day thread.

That first shot is really amazing. I just wish you couldn't see the tip of the boat at the bottom of the frame.
 

Jeremy!

macrumors newbie
Dec 14, 2007
24
1
..........Anyway, here's a shot from yesterday...........

claifeuo7.jpg

Nice shot, well composed. I'd love to see what it looked like non-HDR. I wonder if the branches on the left were darker, it might add to the 'mystery' of what is beyond the tree? I think toning down the bright green fern on the right, and boosting the fern right below it might also help establish it as a fern.

Anyway, one of my favorites in this thread.
 

Doylem

macrumors 68040
Dec 30, 2006
3,858
3,642
Wherever I hang my hat...
Nice shot, well composed. I'd love to see what it looked like non-HDR. I wonder if the branches on the left were darker, it might add to the 'mystery' of what is beyond the tree? I think toning down the bright green fern on the right, and boosting the fern right below it might also help establish it as a fern.

Anyway, one of my favorites in this thread.

Thanks... glad you like it. To be honest, it was one of those shots that seemed to turn out better than expected. The colours were there already, brought out by backlighting. The HDR (from five bracketed exposures) just helped to open up the shadows. This is one of the original exposures...

pathoriginalid6.jpg


...and this is the HDR version...

claifeve6.jpg
 

pdxflint

macrumors 68020
Aug 25, 2006
2,407
14
Oregon coast
This is one of the cases where I honestly prefer the original exposure you showed (not sure which of the five it is) to the HDR version. I don't like the color cast in the forest on the left, and the colors in the lighted areas seem too saturated. Maybe it "pops" more, but it isn't an improvement over the original. Kind of like music, boosting the bass and treble often initially makes it sound better, or using tons of sound FX, but truly well recorded music sounds best with the equalizer flat. Another example of "interesting at first, but then it gets old" enhancement is what the producers of CSI Miami have done with their show - all those supersaturated colors, very HDR effects in exterior (and interior) scenes. Very gorgeous, hard not to look at at first, but then after awhile starts to seriously intrude on any other artistic efforts - because it seems artificially flavored, with some natural flavors left just...because.

I'm not criticizing HDR, just giving an opinion of how it can make something "lesser" rather than "more."
 
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