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mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,730
I was criticising the language used, not the person.



Well that's why I objected to pretentious language being used in relation to a particular brand of camera equipment.

With all due respect, we welcome photographers of all skill levels and gear. But when you start criticizing the language used by a long standing member, we assume you are attacking the person as well. Many of us have been friends for years and have a deep rapport and relationship built up. Perhaps get to know us before making such assumptions.
 
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kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
I was criticising the language used, not the person.



Well that's why I objected to pretentious language being used in relation to a particular brand of camera equipment.

OK then, draw a line under it and move on. To be clear to everyone though, to be seen as pretentious and called out for it is possibly the most hurtful thing someone could level at me. So if I ever type something and it comes across that way, please know I have just typed it wrong or used the wrong words to describe what I mean.

@Boidem I do find it funny that you don’t like the word character when describing lens image characteristics. Today the main stalwarts in the optics game have more than reached the level of diminished returns. So when the majority of manufacturers have managed to approach the pinnacle of colour reproduction, efficiency of light gathering, absence of curvature, aberrations, decentering etc, then every one takes the exact same perfect image. So using a lens that is old or different in some way with a known flaw be it flaring, low contrast, vignetting, that means it is not perfect and offers something different making it’s images stand apart. Is this not what character is? Those aspects that differentiate the individual? Come on, you have to let character be allowed back into the vernacular.
 

PhilBoogie

macrumors 6502
May 15, 2014
458
3,639
(...) and at the start of a new year signed myself up for participation in a formal 52-Week Project on another forum. (...)

Hello. I've seen your photos, and they amaze me. Truly great. I think this comes from a lot of practice, so I'm curious about this 52-week project, since I'm picking up photography again. Not that I'm any good at it; I merely post my best ones on this site, but feel a little embarrassed when looking at my entire 'collection'. But perhaps I can take part of a similar challenge, to push myself to get out and take photos on a daily basis.

Care to share this other forum?

Thank you in advance.
 
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OldMacs4Me

macrumors 68020
May 4, 2018
2,327
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Wild Rose And Wind Belt
The camera itself isn't all that bad to carry, but the tripod that the school issued us was very heavy (unnecessarily so in my opinion, and even if we had our own tripods, which most of us did, we were required to use the school-issued ones). Then there was the other paraphernalia that had to go along: the loaded unexposed sheet film in the holders (loaded prior to leaving home), the Polaroid Back , etc., etc...... I tried to find interesting scenes not too far from where I'd parked my car!
I started out with a Slik tripod with a pan head. Rapidly discovered since the camera had a rotating Graflok back, the head could be left in the car reducing the weight of the tripod by half. As soon as the budget allowed I replaced the Slik with a light weight headless Gitza. Best money I ever spent. With that combo, Linhof and tripod weighed very little more than a complete 35mm outfit and less than a Hassy.
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,730
Hello. I've seen your photos, and they amaze me. Truly great. I think this comes from a lot of practice, so I'm curious about this 52-week project, since I'm picking up photography again. Not that I'm any good at it; I merely post my best ones on this site, but feel a little embarrassed when looking at my entire 'collection'. But perhaps I can take part of a similar challenge, to push myself to get out and take photos on a daily basis.

Care to share this other forum?

Thank you in advance.

Participating in a P52 or a P365 can be very rewarding; I did a 365 a few years ago. Shooting regularly, often with some parameters and themes in place, is a great way to really learn your camera and increase your skillset.

Just as important, in my opinion, is seeking out feedback about the work you are producing. Shooting volume doesn't achieve much if you don't know if it's any good. Find someone whose work you admire and ask them to critique your work:

  • Are the colors accurate? (If there are people in your image, are they people colored, not blue or magenta or orange?)
  • Have I chopped off anything important on the edges of the frame?
  • Is my focus in the right spot and sharp?
  • Is my exposure right for the subject?
  • Do I have any areas that are blown (too bright) or clipped (too dark?)
  • Have I successfully told an intentional story?
  • Is my depth of field (aperture choice) the right one for this photo?
I would suggest you do this along side a P52 if you decide to do one. You don't need to pay for a formal mentor, and you don't need to get feedback on every image. But in order to grow, we have to know where to improve. So be sure to find someone you trust, and then listen with open ears when they tell you where you can make improvements. If you can develop a relationship like this, you will grow far faster than any other method, in my experience. And also be sure not to take whatever criticisms that you are given personally; we all started somewhere, and we all still have room to grow. I'm pretty sure we even have a CC thread in this forum pinned, although it hasn't been active in awhile.
 
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PhilBoogie

macrumors 6502
May 15, 2014
458
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Participating in a P52 or a P365 can be very rewarding; I did a 365 a few years ago. Shooting regularly, often with some parameters and themes in place, is a great way to really learn your camera and increase your skillset.

Just as important, in my opinion, is seeking out feedback about the work you are producing. Shooting volume doesn't achieve much if you don't know if it's any good. Find someone whose work you admire and ask them to critique your work:

  • Are the colors accurate? (If there are people in your image, are they people colored, not blue or magenta or orange?)
  • Have I chopped off anything important on the edges of the frame?
  • Is my focus in the right spot and sharp?
  • Is my exposure right for the subject?
  • Do I have any areas that are blown (too bright) or clipped (too dark?)
  • Have I successfully told an intentional story?
  • Is my depth of field (aperture choice) the right one for this photo?
I would suggest you do this along side a P52 if you decide to do one. You don't need to pay for a formal mentor, and you don't need to get feedback on every image. But in order to grow, we have to know where to improve. So be sure to find someone you trust, and then listen with open ears when they tell you where you can make improvements. If you can develop a relationship like this, you will grow far faster than any other method, in my experience. And also be sure not to take whatever criticisms that you are given personally; we all started somewhere, and we all still have room to grow. I'm pretty sure we even have a CC thread in this forum pinned, although it hasn't been active in awhile.

Ahh, this is very welcomed info, excellent tips. Things to think about. Taking photography to the next level by shooting daily will be a bit much for me...but doing it weekly will prove to be challenging enough for me.

Really great tips here from you, I appreciate it a lot.

Thank you,
Phil
 
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Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Hello. I've seen your photos, and they amaze me. Truly great. I think this comes from a lot of practice, so I'm curious about this 52-week project, since I'm picking up photography again. Not that I'm any good at it; I merely post my best ones on this site, but feel a little embarrassed when looking at my entire 'collection'. But perhaps I can take part of a similar challenge, to push myself to get out and take photos on a daily basis.

Care to share this other forum?

Thank you in advance.
Thank you for the compliments!

Both a 365-Day project and a 52-Week project can be fun and challenging. The 365-Day one in particular, as one must shoot something each and every day, and, well, most of us find that to be a bit daunting in terms of time and creativity. The 52-Week project provides a bit more latitude, in that one doesn't necessarily need to shoot each and every day but has more flexibility in shooting whenever it works out best during a given week, whether it be a bunch of photos all shot on one day or photos shot on two or three different days of the given week. Both types of projects are definitely great learning tools!

I first did a 365-Day project back in 2009 and while I enjoyed it at first eventually it became overwhelming and one day in mid-October of that year I said, "I can't do this any more," and stopped abruptly. I still regret that!

Years later, when I had just gotten my new Sony gear, as the beginning of the new year was about to begin, a couple of people on Nikon Cafe (niikoncafe.com) suggested that I participate in their 52-Week project, so I signed up for it and really enjoyed it. I did it again the following year. Along the way, various people dropped out but I hung in there to the very end both times. Then I'd had enough, so haven't done one since then, but of course am still shooting. It is a lot of fun shooting and posting the results on a weekly basis and seeing what other members are doing as well. Unless one specifically requests critique, though, it is not offered.

Various forums do start up a 365-Day or 52-Week project at the beginning of a new year. Last year Nikon Cafe offered the opportunity but no one signed up, as several of the "regulars" were exhausted after their earlier ventures. I don't know whether or not there will be one this year, haven't noticed any posts or threads regarding it.
 
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kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
Ahh, this is very welcomed info, excellent tips. Things to think about. Taking photography to the next level by shooting daily will be a bit much for me...but doing it weekly will prove to be challenging enough for me.

Really great tips here from you, I appreciate it a lot.

Thank you,
Phil

I am putting this disclaimer first - I am an idiot, feel free to ignore me.

Now, when you are doing your project, don’t be afraid to take a picture of what you see as the mundane. Your daily trip to work for the majority of people who see the image are not from where the picture was taken and so it is an interesting far away place for your viewer even if you have walked past the same broken sidewalk daily for the past 5 years. We haven’t and we might find it interesting (some of us lead dull lives). Training yourself to really see is a great skill.
 

kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
I started out with a Slik tripod with a pan head. Rapidly discovered since the camera had a rotating Graflok back, the head could be left in the car reducing the weight of the tripod by half. As soon as the budget allowed I replaced the Slik with a light weight headless Gitza. Best money I ever spent. With that combo, Linhof and tripod weighed very little more than a complete 35mm outfit and less than a Hassy.

But tell me, how do you get on with the bellows and all of the fuss of alignment and developing the negatives?
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,064
50,730
I am putting this disclaimer first - I am an idiot, feel free to ignore me.

Now, when you are doing your project, don’t be afraid to take a picture of what you see as the mundane. Your daily trip to work for the majority of people who see the image are not from where the picture was taken and so it is an interesting far away place for your viewer even if you have walked past the same broken sidewalk daily for the past 5 years. We haven’t and we might find it interesting (some of us lead dull lives). Training yourself to really see is a great skill.
you mean like photos of my pantry?? 🙃
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
I went through a large format "phase" a few years ago, and wish I'd stuck with it a bit more. Most of what I shot was with a Speed Graphics, and in all honesty even though it was more than capable of what I was doing I found that it didn't have enough of the movements I wanted and too much extra stuff in the way I didn't care about(rangefinder that worked, but only if I stuck with one lens, etc). Mine didn't have a Graflok back, which I think might have endeared me to it a bit more.

I had a Burke and James field camera that did everything I could need/want and even had its own Graflok-type back that could be removed and rotated. Mine had a 9.5" Tessar-type lens on it that was okay, but a bit too long for my taste and I never could find another lens board. The machinist at work was going to make a couple for me...but then COVID and I left there and the like.

I do have a Calumet monorail that can be twisted into a pretzel. I bought someone's full kit for it, and have goodies like bellows extensions, a bag bellows, and a couple of different length rails. It's actually like enough that I'd haul it out into the field.

Back when I was shooting 4x5 occasionally, I'd often trek out with one film holder in each back pocket, and figured if I couldn't do it in 4 frames it wasn't worth the work. I shot transparencies a couple of times, but mostly B&W since home slide processing isn't fun and there are only a couple of labs that will do LF. I found my Tiltall mostly adequate, which isn't too terribly heavy. I think it was Edward Wesson, though, who said something about 40 feet from the car :)

One of these days hopefully I can actually do something more with it. I do have a 4x5 enlarger in storage still. It's a massive beast, but I actually have 35mm and a couple of medium format carriers for it and it shares lens boards with my Besseler 23, so it could conceivably be my only enlarger.
 

OldMacs4Me

macrumors 68020
May 4, 2018
2,327
29,946
Wild Rose And Wind Belt
But tell me, how do you get on with the bellows and all of the fuss of alignment and developing the negatives?
I had a very good 6-sheet 4x5 carrier, that fitted my 4 inch dip and dunk tanks. It works with both b&W or Colour, allows for good agitation and a couple of simple taps prevent air bells. Bellows calculations are incredibly easy, and the wonderful thing about press cameras is that the bellows fold into the camera body and are protected without the need for a carrying case. That said some lens movements are much more limited than with a studio camera, but at the end of the day it is the glass that makes the difference. I only have two good lenses and both are Schneider. The Schneider Xenar (OK but not much room for lens shift) which came with the camera can also be used in a pinch. With that one I can focus without using the ground glass.

Nowadays the cost of film ($10/sheet for colour + developing) and the lack of an enlarger (sold a long time ago) has the 4x5 in storage. Currently the little Lumix ZS200 or the even smaller Fuji XP90 fill most of my needs. All that said if someone comes out with a portable 4x5 digital back that costs less than my mini van, I may once again put it to work.
 
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Clix Pix

macrumors Core
I am putting this disclaimer first - I am an idiot, feel free to ignore me.

Now, when you are doing your project, don’t be afraid to take a picture of what you see as the mundane. Your daily trip to work for the majority of people who see the image are not from where the picture was taken and so it is an interesting far away place for your viewer even if you have walked past the same broken sidewalk daily for the past 5 years. We haven’t and we might find it interesting (some of us lead dull lives). Training yourself to really see is a great skill.
One thing which should really be the point of the whole 365 or 52 Week projects is that it is meant to be fun. Sometimes it can trigger perfectionism and other personal traits which actually can interfere with having fun as the perfectionist strives to produce a masterpiece each and every day (or several masterpieces each week). It's also not meant to be like a photography class or workshop and while it is nice to have thoughtful comments and critiques from one's peers sometimes they overstep and that causes other issues.

This was a lesson I took away from that experience in 2009. At some point it stopped being fun and was stressful, which was not my intention in starting it in the first place. I realized that I needed to relax more, and if on a given day I was super-busy and just wasn't going to have time to spend with the camera and to shoot a masterpiece, it would be OK to take a different approach. That worked much better for me in the 52 Weeks project years later. I also realized that it was a good idea to simply reach for whatever tool was going to best do the job, especially if I were pressed for time, and that helps a lot, too.

One of the things I most enjoy doing is making the mundane look special and different -- you all have seen examples of that in my work over the past several years. Another of the other valuable things I brought away from that initial 2009 project, was developing the habit of really looking for something, really seeing something, and also being open to the possibilities in doing something different with it. There have been times when the weather has been bad, I haven't wanted to go out, and yet I'm in the mood to photograph something. I'll find myself looking around my house and seeing if some ordinary kitchen tool or some other functional item would make an interesting image and that's when I get out the gear and any props I might need and start experimenting.....

And, yes, to agree with what Ken has written above, even though to someone who lives in another country or another area, something he or she sees all the time is "mundane," indeed a photo or two of that can be quite interesting and fascinating to those of us who might never have an opportunity to be in that country or see that scene or object..... Keep your eyes and you mind open and you'll discover interesting possibilities!
 

PhilBoogie

macrumors 6502
May 15, 2014
458
3,639
Thank you for the compliments!

Both a 365-Day project and a 52-Week project can be fun and challenging. The 365-Day one in particular, as one must shoot something each and every day, and, well, most of us find that to be a bit daunting in terms of time and creativity. The 52-Week project provides a bit more latitude, in that one doesn't necessarily need to shoot each and every day but has more flexibility in shooting whenever it works out best during a given week, whether it be a bunch of photos all shot on one day or photos shot on two or three different days of the given week. Both types of projects are definitely great learning tools!

I first did a 365-Day project back in 2009 and while I enjoyed it at first eventually it became overwhelming and one day in mid-October of that year I said, "I can't do this any more," and stopped abruptly. I still regret that!

Years later, when I had just gotten my new Sony gear, as the beginning of the new year was about to begin, a couple of people on Nikon Cafe (niikoncafe.com) suggested that I participate in their 52-Week project, so I signed up for it and really enjoyed it. I did it again the following year. Along the way, various people dropped out but I hung in there to the very end both times. Then I'd had enough, so haven't done one since then, but of course am still shooting. It is a lot of fun shooting and posting the results on a weekly basis and seeing what other members are doing as well. Unless one specifically requests critique, though, it is not offered.

Various forums do start up a 365-Day or 52-Week project at the beginning of a new year. Last year Nikon Cafe offered the opportunity but no one signed up, as several of the "regulars" were exhausted after their earlier ventures. I don't know whether or not there will be one this year, haven't noticed any posts or threads regarding it.
Aha, nikoncafe! Seems to be offline ATM. But I’ll find something else. One could also simply challenge oneself, but I think committing to a forum would be best.

Wow, enlisting for a 365 project, and holding on to that through mid October! That’s close to 300 days. I salute you for your dedication. Yes, that must’ve been quite a daunting task when you find yourself ‘a bit low on the creative part’. I say: “Commendable!”.


Please don’t do this. Don’t compare others’ highlight reel to your behind the scenes. We are all on a journey and we are at different points on our respective journeys and most of us feel this.

Well put! Yes, indeed it is a journey. During which I hope to become a bit better at as a result of committing to a 52 week forum project. Though I must say this forum is already great for photography. Really great photos are being shared here, by so many people. I like it.

I am putting this disclaimer first - I am an idiot, feel free to ignore me.

Now, when you are doing your project, don’t be afraid to take a picture of what you see as the mundane. Your daily trip to work for the majority of people who see the image are not from where the picture was taken and so it is an interesting far away place for your viewer even if you have walked past the same broken sidewalk daily for the past 5 years. We haven’t and we might find it interesting (some of us lead dull lives). Training yourself to really see is a great skill.

Well put. Again. (Ignoring the ignore me part 😉) It is indeed ‘training yourself’ to see composition in daily life. I often ‘get this’ when riding my road bike, and I have to ‘switch off’ because I just want to cycle at that moment.
 
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kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
I leave you guys alone for a day and this explodes :-D

I'm tempted to do the challenge too. I might start with a January first and see how it works with my time. :)

We all should. January 1 2023 new year, new project. So @Freida are you any closer to answering your question?
 

Boidem

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Nov 16, 2022
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But when you start criticizing the language used by a long standing member, we assume you are attacking the person as well. Many of us have been friends for years and have a deep rapport and relationship built up. Perhaps get to know us before making such assumptions.
Sorry; who is making assumptions? It's not me...
To be clear to everyone though, to be seen as pretentious and called out for it is possibly the most hurtful thing someone could level at me
Really?? If someone called me pretentious, I'd just laugh. I've endured far, far worse than that! 🤣 Perhaps I'm just thicker skinned. But if someone pointed out that something I'd said was pretentious, then I'd have a think about why they'd said that, and consider their viewpoint. But just to reiterate; I'm not calling anyone here pretentious. So, we can draw a line under it, yes.

The reason I called out what I saw as pretentious language, is because I feel very strongly that such has no place when discussing art. Nobody cares what brushes Picasso, Van Gogh or Rembrandt used (unless they're a student of painting and want to replicate such techniques). We just enjoy the art. The whole cult of personality surrounding Leica is largely manufactured. For years, I'd hear and read people going on about the 'Leica Look'. As though it was a real thing. Later, investigation and experience taught me that it really isn't. Leica invested lots of money in giving famous photographers equipment to use, and in having lots of great photos printed very carefully, to maximise their technical impact. All of this has combined to help create that brand identity, that myth.


@Boidem I do find it funny that you don’t like the word character when describing lens image characteristics. Today the main stalwarts in the optics game have more than reached the level of diminished returns. So when the majority of manufacturers have managed to approach the pinnacle of colour reproduction, efficiency of light gathering, absence of curvature, aberrations, decentering etc, then every one takes the exact same perfect image. So using a lens that is old or different in some way with a known flaw be it flaring, low contrast, vignetting, that means it is not perfect and offers something different making it’s images stand apart. Is this not what character is? Those aspects that differentiate the individual? Come on, you have to let character be allowed back into the vernacular.
Some photographers like to use particular old lenses to create a particular 'feel' in a photograph. I get that; that old Praktica had some very basic East German lens on it, which wasn't particularly sharp, wasn't particularly optically great, but yes, I suppose it had 'character'. Personally I prefer the 'sterile' accuracy and sharpness of modern optics every time. But I understand the aesthetic appeal; people feel that using such old junk I mean great equipment, adds an esoteric quality that we learned to associate with photos from the past. But we don't know if Roman Vishniak or Robert Capa would have preferred modern lenses, perhaps they would. Who knows, we never will. So I understand if someone wants to use a cheap old lens for artistic purposes. It has been grossly overdone now though, and become a sort of genre all by itself; Hipsters (who ruin EVERYTHING) have conjured up such utterly pretentious terms as 'Lomography' as though it's a special new thing. Please. Taking crap photos with crap cameras is really nothing special. It's just a long winded way of recreating crappy Instagram filters... But yes; 'character' is one I'll grudgingly let slide. :mad:
 
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dimme

macrumors 68040
Feb 14, 2007
3,264
32,153
SF, CA
Many, many years ago when I was just starting my photography journey, I took a 2 week photography workshop. At the end of the two weeks some of the parting works from the instructor to us was. Shoot at least a roll of film a week. I have always tried to do this, and the shots have not always been good, but it keeps me engaged.
 
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Boidem

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Shoot at least a roll of film a week
There were times when I simply couldn't afford to do this, as each roll was costing me money I didn't have. Fortunately, our college photography technician managed to source some OOD bulk film stock, mostly Ilford HP5, so we could have very cheap film to use. It was crap; being OOD, the speed had dropped somewhat, so it needed pushing in development quite a bit, and it wasn't a patch technically on 'proper' still camera stock, but it worked. Many hard up students cut their teeth on that stuff. I worked on some chemistry that suited it better than the bulk free to use Ilford Ilfotec HC highly diluted stuff the college had. To such success, that a visiting Ilford rep asked me about my 'secret formula'. Can't remember the exact details, but it was a lower dilution, longer immersion and less agitation formula that better suited the degraded stock, and much more so, proper fresh HP5. I was getting the 'Leica Look' with cheap ingredients. ;)

But the discipline of shooting film certainly makes you think more about each shot, as it costs money and the results aren't instantly deletable...
 

r.harris1

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2012
2,210
12,757
Denver, Colorado, USA
The reason I called out what I saw as pretentious language, is because I feel very strongly that such has no place when discussing art. Nobody cares what brushes Picasso, Van Gogh or Rembrandt used (unless they're a student of painting and want to replicate such techniques). We just enjoy the art. The whole cult of personality surrounding Leica is largely manufactured. For years, I'd hear and read people going on about the 'Leica Look'. As though it was a real thing. Later, investigation and experience taught me that it really isn't. Leica invested lots of money in giving famous photographers equipment to use, and in having lots of great photos printed very carefully, to maximise their technical impact. All of this has combined to help create that brand identity, that myth.
You have an interespting perspective and opinions, for sure. You're right, speaking for me, I don't care what brushes someone like Van Gogh used or what camera Capa or Marshall used. Or their film. Or how they developed it. Or what raw processor any current photographer uses. Or what camera. I like what they have created and it's entirely subjective. Because I'm curious, it's interesting to me as a human what they used. I think (hope?) most people aren't naive enough to think that if they use the same tool as one of their artistic heros they'll create the same impactful art.

Those artists did very much care what specific tools they used, though. Just like anyone would and does. Van Gogh is a great example of that. One has an array of tools available to you in whatever time period you live in and you can select from them. Each will have benefits and limitations and the initial creation path will be a result of those benefits and limitations.

All brand identity is "myth", that's its job. Like many myths, there's often something behind it. One of my camera systems is an M-system Leica. The "myth" creates the price (to some degree anyway) but the camera is exceptionally well built as are the lenses. You have to use it in a certain way and because of this, the images created - for me (I don't find it valuable to speak for others) - are "different". If I came on a scene with an M vs my FM2 (or d850) vs a medium format camera, the outcome will be different. Going the "other way", starting with a final image, could I create that same image with a different system? Of course. There'd be differences in how a lens draws or how flim renders or the raw capture, but sure. That's not really that relevant to me though. It's going the other way that matters to me (the original creation).

Like all brands, Leica very much has a myth behind it. Maybe (definitely?) more than others. It's very polarizing quite obviously given all of your comments. You give the appearance to me of being on a crusade to "myth bust" Leica and bring "truth" to the world and make the blind see :). Is that true or do I have it wrong? It wouldn't be the first time I've misread someone on the internet.

There's myth there, sure. A lot of it. I honestly think most people know that. I do. I considered the system in part because of its myth but I'm in it for personal reasons, some of which have to do with the size, quality of the tool and so forth. I personally find it exceptional. You may not find it to be so, but all of us can really only make our decisions based on what we (think we) need and what's in our "value equation".
 
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Boidem

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Like all brands, Leica very much has a myth behind it. Maybe (definitely?) more than others. It's very polarizing quite obviously given all of your comments. You give the appearance to me of being on a crusade to "myth bust" Leica and bring "truth" to the world and make the blind see :). Is that true or do I have it wrong? It wouldn't be the first time I've misread someone on the internet.
I just feel that art needs to be made as accessible and democratic as possible, and this means removing whatever barriers there might be. I'm not on any 'crusade'; it's just that of all the different brands, Leica is the very worst at mythologising their products. At college, many students were from poorer backgrounds, and couldn't afford their own cams, so the college provided loaner cams for them to use. The legendary Pentax K1000. Heavy, basic, clunky and indestructible. But that didn't matter; what shone through was the talent of the individual (looking back, I think we should all have been forced to use those K1000s, level the playing field somewhat). There were other more priviledged students, one had a Rolleiflex TLR. Nice cam, but his work was really, really boring. He was into some form of esoterism none of us peasants 'got'. Hey ho. We were too busy having fun to care about ego. Expensive cams can be a barrier to realising talent, and whilst they may be great tools for those who can afford them, I think we should be concerned more with enabling potential than caring about brand identity and status symbols.

This article explains what I mean, very well:

'The early reputation that Leica had saw their cameras being adopted by many notable photographers in the early days of photojournalism and what we’d now broadly call street photography. The portability and reliability made them a great choice for such usage. What’s relevant about this today is that it’s these two fields of photography that are arguably the most aspired to by photographers looking to make a name for themselves outside of the more day-to-day fields commercial photography. I’d even go as far to say that these are the types of photography that command the most credibility and dare I say “cool”.
The knock-on effect of this is that the credibility associated with these fields of photography and those at the top of their game within them has over the last 90 odd years rubbed off on Leica cameras, especially I’d argue, the m-mount ones that take film. All those great film photographers who took all these great photos with Leica cameras throughout history did wonders for the reputation of the Leica brand. These days it almost seems imprinted into the history of photography that Leica cameras played a part in the creation of countless historically significant photographs – to the point in fact that some very famous photos are often incorrectly attributed as being shot with Leica cameras. This seems to have created some quite significant level of aspiration in budding photographers to own the things – great photos were taken with these great cameras, ergo, to take great photos one must own a Leica'


That's what I'm on about. I have nothing against tools themselves (or even those who use them). As I've said; I'd love to own a Leica at some stage, perhaps I will. What I am interested in, is an adapter for my Z6, to mount Leica lenses; after all, it's the lens that matters far more as far as the actual image is concerned.

So, steering vaguely back towards the OP; yes, you could use other brands' lenses such as Leica, on a ML cam. That could be great fun.
 

r.harris1

macrumors 68020
Feb 20, 2012
2,210
12,757
Denver, Colorado, USA
I just feel that art needs to be made as accessible and democratic as possible, and this means removing whatever barriers there might be. I'm not on any 'crusade'; it's just that of all the different brands, Leica is the very worst at mythologising their products. At college, many students were from poorer backgrounds, and couldn't afford their own cams, so the college provided loaner cams for them to use. The legendary Pentax K1000. Heavy, basic, clunky and indestructible. But that didn't matter; what shone through was the talent of the individual (looking back, I think we should all have been forced to use those K1000s, level the playing field somewhat). There were other more priviledged students, one had a Rolleiflex TLR. Nice cam, but his work was really, really boring. He was into some form of esoterism none of us peasants 'got'. Hey ho. We were too busy having fun to care about ego. Expensive cams can be a barrier to realising talent, and whilst they may be great tools for those who can afford them, I think we should be concerned more with enabling potential than caring about brand identity and status symbols.

This article explains what I mean, very well:

'The early reputation that Leica had saw their cameras being adopted by many notable photographers in the early days of photojournalism and what we’d now broadly call street photography. The portability and reliability made them a great choice for such usage. What’s relevant about this today is that it’s these two fields of photography that are arguably the most aspired to by photographers looking to make a name for themselves outside of the more day-to-day fields commercial photography. I’d even go as far to say that these are the types of photography that command the most credibility and dare I say “cool”.
The knock-on effect of this is that the credibility associated with these fields of photography and those at the top of their game within them has over the last 90 odd years rubbed off on Leica cameras, especially I’d argue, the m-mount ones that take film. All those great film photographers who took all these great photos with Leica cameras throughout history did wonders for the reputation of the Leica brand. These days it almost seems imprinted into the history of photography that Leica cameras played a part in the creation of countless historically significant photographs – to the point in fact that some very famous photos are often incorrectly attributed as being shot with Leica cameras. This seems to have created some quite significant level of aspiration in budding photographers to own the things – great photos were taken with these great cameras, ergo, to take great photos one must own a Leica'


That's what I'm on about. I have nothing against tools themselves (or even those who use them). As I've said; I'd love to own a Leica at some stage, perhaps I will. What I am interested in, is an adapter for my Z6, to mount Leica lenses; after all, it's the lens that matters far more as far as the actual image is concerned.

So, steering vaguely back towards the OP; yes, you could use other brands' lenses such as Leica, on a ML cam. That could be great fun.
Makes sense. I agree that art should be accessible - it might be the most important thing humans do as a species (but that's just me). And for sure, there's no tie-in between money and talent. In particular between money spent on tools and talent. It simply doesn't exist.
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
Aha, nikoncafe! Seems to be offline ATM. But I’ll find something else. One could also simply challenge oneself, but I think committing to a forum would be best.

Wow, enlisting for a 365 project, and holding on to that through mid October! That’s close to 300 days. I salute you for your dedication. Yes, that must’ve been quite a daunting task when you find yourself ‘a bit low on the creative part’. I say: “Commendable!”.




Well put! Yes, indeed it is a journey. During which I hope to become a bit better at as a result of committing to a 52 week forum project. Though I must say this forum is already great for photography. Really great photos are being shared here, by so many people. I like it.



Well put. Again. (Ignoring the ignore me part 😉) It is indeed ‘training yourself’ to see composition in daily life. I often ‘get this’ when riding my road bike, and I have to ‘switch off’ because I just want to cycle at that moment.

It may have been that you went to Nikon Cafe just as they were in the midst of doing a periodic update, which is always frustrating! They are probably up and running just fine now today (haven't looked in there yet).

Yes, definitely it is more challenging and more fun when one is participating in one of these projects with other people, as you all keep encouraging each other to keep pushing on through.....I was not the only one who dropped out of the 365 Day project back in 2009.

Some days one gets out of bed and the first thing that crosses the mind is, "what am I gonna shoot today?" Other days the answer is easy and obvious and one can hardly wait to get out the camera and start shooting. One nice thing about the 52 Weeks project is that on those days when one is really on a roll and gets several interesting, good shots, they can be held over and used as part of the 52 Weeks project, whereas they "don't count" in the 365 Day one, where you still have to shoot something new the following day.

One nice thing is that one can also use the shots one takes for the project(s) and share them in other places, too, such as here in our POTD thread. You can get good mileage out of your projects!
 
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