Honest feelings about the Vision Pro after nearly 5 months

[SunMac]

I think it’s not as isolating as many people initially think just looking at the device—they may not realize you can very plainly see your environment and others can (pretty much) see your eyes with EyeSight (what I generally hear from people who actually gave the feature a fair chance is it’s weird and needs lots of improvement but baseline letting people see the user’s eyes helps and is better than not having it). But even still, there is the isolating aspect of not being able to share what you’re seeing with anyone who is not also wearing a VP. I think in many cases that’s not an issue and is actually desired because most of people’s personal device usage is personal and isn’t supposed to be shared. But there are the times you want to show someone something on your screen. And of course there are the normally shared television type experiences that become isolated on the VP, as well as AR/VR-specific experiences that can only be seen on a headset.

Of course all these wouldn't be issues if everyone had their own VP (or some Apple headset), but that’s not likely to happen for awhile if ever. But for times you want to show someone something you're looking at, there should be ways to do that. If I’m not mistaken, I believe you can live stream your POV or a virtual window to a physical screen? At the very least you can send things via Airdop or some messaging app. Sharing these ways does take an added step or two versus just showing someone your screen. Hopefully Apple made it as easy as possible, but if you’re often needing to show things to people, say at work, either the VP isn't the right device or I suppose one could set up a display to be constantly receiving live stream.
For shared screen television type experiences, I’d say people should just stick to televisions.
As for AR/VR-specific experiences that can only be seen on a headset, if others don’t have their own headset, obviously there is no other option, you either go it alone or go without, just like any other single rider experience (like a massage chair) 🤷‍♂️. And maybe some will want to go without until they can share it—to each their own.

So I don’t think the VP is particularly isolating unless one chooses to use it that way—ie. alone in place of social experiences. But we do that with all our other personal devices, so it’s essentially just another personal device.

Yes, you can airplay your display to another Apple device. I have shown many friends the AVP by airplaying the display to my MacBook Pro. It's actually the exact same feature that Apple employees use at the Apple Store with their iPad to show you the AVP. I have done exactly what Apple does at the Apple Store to give people a tour of the AVP. If you want to show someone what you are seeing you can easily airplay it with screen mirroring to another device. I actually love showing people the AVP while watching what they are seeing on my MacBook Pro.

 

[Bodhitree]

The thing is, these kinds of long-engagement reviews will impact international sales. By not doing a simultaneous worldwide launch Apple now face the decreased level of hype for pretty big markets like China and the UK.

I don’t really have a stake in whether the VP does well in these markets or not, but I think it’s a pity that people who chose to return their device go online and agitate for their point of view. What is there to be gained?

Honest reviews are appreciated, because for me how the long-term effects of the physical usability of the device stack up against its software use-cases is the big unknown factor in whether the VP is worth getting. It’s a complex device, with a lot of edge cases like media consumption and screen mirroring and extending, and determining what you personally get out of it and whether that’s worth 3500 dollars is not a simple question.

For media consumption I have a home cinema system, for browsing I have an iPad, for computing I have an iMac. I understand Vision Pro adds an ”experience” but how long is that going to last me?

 

[TallGuyGT]

I don’t really have a stake in whether the VP does well in these markets or not, but I think it’s a pity that people who chose to return their device go online and agitate for their point of view. What is there to be gained?

Most of the long term reviews I've seen on YouTube or read have not been malicious. But they have been necessarily blunt about what is an extremely expensive purchase. Almost all the tech influencers who were so bullish upon the US release have been notably quite about the longer term usage. I think it's helpful to hear from people who didn't return it and if they regret that decision. There are more apps now, but is it really viable as a spatial computer, or is that money better spent on a Mac or iPad? Or waiting for v2?

 

[ryanmp]

I don’t really have a stake in whether the VP does well in these markets or not, but I think it’s a pity that people who chose to return their device go online and agitate for their point of view. What is there to be gained?

This behaviour is all over the place these days, not just for AVP. A complete unwillingness to realise that not everyone thinks the same way, not everyone has the same likes and dislikes, what works for one may not work for another. The OP post is a good example of this… quoting yet another article.

I tried avoid this threads because they all tend to descend into the same repetitive back and forth. Of course the AVP has shortcomings, but I think it’s also important for potential buyers to know how it might work for them as it has for me… effectively replacing my iPad which I recently sold.

 

[mode11]

I don’t really have a stake in whether the VP does well in these markets or not, but I think it’s a pity that people who chose to return their device go online and agitate for their point of view. What is there to be gained?

Why shouldn't they express their opinions online? They paid $3500 for the AVP and have actually used it, so it's not like they're just parroting opinions they read elsewhere. If they decided to take it back for a refund, that's a useful datapoint and a valid opinion.

 

[Gleipnir]

I was surprised to see this name, thinking that the poster had bought it himself. BUT, after clicking in to take a look, I realized that it was actually reposting someone else's comments. LOL.🤣

I think someone like me, an ordinary person, would just share their thoughts on a device they don't like and then leave it at that. But the poster is different - five months later, they still persist in reposting negative comments in an attempt to prove something.

 

[Bodhitree]

Why shouldn't they express their opinions online? They paid $3500 for the AVP and have actually used it, so it's not like they're just parroting opinions they read elsewhere. If they decided to take it back for a refund, that's a useful datapoint and a valid opinion.

The thread is about long-term use. If you got a VP and returned it, you have at most a couple of weeks experience, which to my mind means you don’t have a valid opinion to offer. That doesn’t mean they should stay out of the thread, merely that they shouldn’t offer their own experience as “authoritative”.

 

[mode11]

The thread is about long-term use. If you got a VP and returned it, you have at most a couple of weeks experience, which to my mind means you don’t have a valid opinion to offer. That doesn’t mean they should stay out of the thread, merely that they shouldn’t offer their own experience as “authoritative”.

Fair points. Though someone in that position would have to think pretty hard about whether to keep it or not, as they’d need to make their mind up within 14 days. They obviously wouldn’t be able to comment on features / apps that came out after their time with it, but probably put in quite a bit of time with it when they had the opportunity.

 

[Bodhitree]

Fair points. Though someone in that position would have to think pretty hard about whether to keep it or not, as they’d need to make their mind up within 14 days. They obviously wouldn’t be able to comment on features / apps that came out after their time with it, but probably put in quite a bit of time with it when they had the opportunity.

Absolutely. But what I’m interested in is if there is enough of a product there to keep me using it over years. It has to have use cases which make me want to pick the device up and strap it to my head for a few hours. So far I have seen:

* computing with a large set of screens
* viewing movies on a really big theater screen

And then maybe immersive video’s if and when there is enough content. If there are people who have experience with apps that are good-enough to use day to day I’d like to hear it.

My current impression is it’s all still very cutting-edge and maybe I’d be better off waiting for an SE version.

 

[mode11]

So far I have seen:

* computing with a large set of screens
* viewing movies on a really big theater screen

If those turn out to be the only significant use cases (and they’re essentially the same thing), then Apple merely needs to bring out a basic HMD with high quality screens / cameras. But that would just be an alternative to a large monitor / TV, rather than a new computing platform. At that point, I think Apple would lose interest and leave it to companies like Sony. This is about finding a successor to the iPhone, not letting you watch movies in a virtual cinema.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple needs to get controller support out the door ASAP.

So much existing VR content could be ported over and drive some interest here

 

[NT1440]

Apple needs to get controller support out the door ASAP.

So much existing VR content could be ported over and drive some interest here

As pointed out in another thread, controller support has been there since day one. It was even in the slides during the AVP event.

Connect keyboards, headphones, and other Bluetooth accessories to Apple Vision Pro

You can connect Bluetooth accessories like a game controller, keyboard, trackpad or mouse, headphones, and more to your Apple Vision Pro.

support.apple.com

 

[mode11]

Apple needs to get controller support out the door ASAP.

So much existing VR content could be ported over and drive some interest here

As ever with Apple, they shun gaming. They seem determined to frame the AVP as a productivity tool. They don’t want people to see it as a gaming VR headset, as those have been around for a decade and have found little traction.

 

[mode11]

As pointed out in another thread, controller support has been there since day one. It was even in the slides during the AVP event.

Connect keyboards, headphones, and other Bluetooth accessories to Apple Vision Pro

You can connect Bluetooth accessories like a game controller, keyboard, trackpad or mouse, headphones, and more to your Apple Vision Pro.

support.apple.com

Does this include VR-focussed controllers, from Vive, Meta etc? Or just a standard console controller?

 

[turbineseaplane]

As ever with Apple, they shun gaming. They seem determined to frame the AVP as a productivity tool. They don’t want people to see it as a gaming VR headset, as those have been around for a decade and have found little traction.

They may have no choice in the short term
It's a massive chicken/egg thing on content and App development

They flat out need "something" for a buyer to do with these things and a massive catalog of existing content, that is KNOWN to work in VR (Games), is just sitting there.

So many VR devs I follow were hyped about AVP ... until they saw that the hand tracking, while impressive, isn't good enough for their needs.

 

[NT1440]

Does this include VR focussed controllers, from Vive, Meta etc? Or just e.g. a PS5 controller?

Any Bluetooth controller. I don’t think the Vive and Meta ones are BT so it would be up to them, no?

 

[NT1440]

They may have no choice in the short term
It's a massive chicken/egg thing on content and App development

They flat out need "something" for a buyer to do with these things and a massive catalog of existing content, that is KNOWN to work in VR (Games), is just sitting there.

So many VR devs I follow were hyped about AVP ... until they saw that the hand tracking, while impressive, isn't good enough for their needs.

Can you elaborate on this? I remember when this board was saying something as silly as fruit ninja wasn’t possible…then it got released.

From what I’ve seen out of the WWDC sessions from last year, visionOS has extremely advanced skeletal hand tracking where you can make custom gestures. What shortcomings were devs seeing when looking into this? Any posts or blogs we can follow on the subject? I always like seeing the technical feedback from devs.

100% agree on the chicken/egg problem in regards to gaming though

 

[TallGuyGT]

Can you elaborate on this? I remember when this board was saying something as silly as fruit ninja wasn’t possible…then it got released.

From what I’ve seen out of the WWDC sessions from last year, visionOS has extremely advanced skeletal hand tracking where you can make custom gestures. What shortcomings were devs seeing when looking into this? Any posts or blogs we can follow on the subject? I always like seeing the technical feedback from devs.

100% agree on the chicken/egg problem in regards to gaming though

I personally find Fruit Ninga unplayable, and I've loved that game since its first release way back. But there are many games, mostly thru Apple Arcade and mostly puzzle-ish type, that play fine. Also, Hit The Island and Crossy Road Castles have more movement to them, but play fine as they are more simple to track.

 

[mode11]

Any Bluetooth controller. I don’t think the Vive and Meta ones are BT so it would be up to them, no?

The point is that if the AVP can't use existing VR hand controllers, for whatever reason (including technological), and Apple isn't minded to release one themselves, then no VR-specific controllers exist for the platform. Sure, you could use a PS5 controller or whatever, but who wants to do that? You need to be able to move your hands independently, and take advantage of multiple axes of motion sensing.

Hand tracking is a great solution for general / productivity purposes. It's akin to when the iPhone used finger touch rather than the stylus-based interface of previous smartphones. But hand tracking won't work without line of sight from the headset (e.g. if your hand is by your side, even temporarily, whilst playing Beat Saber etc.). It also doesn't provide any haptic feedback, or precise trigger control. Latency is surely higher as well.

 

[NT1440]

The point is that if the AVP can't use existing VR hand controllers, for whatever reason (including technological), and Apple isn't minded to release one themselves, then no VR-specific controllers exist for the platform. Sure, you could use a PS5 controller or whatever, but who wants to do that? You need to be able to move your hands independently, and take advantage of multiple axes of motion sensing.

Hand tracking is a great solution for general / productivity purposes. It's akin to when the iPhone used finger touch rather than the stylus-based interface of previous smartphones. But hand tracking won't work without line of sight from the headset (e.g. if your hand is by your side, even temporarily, whilst playing Beat Saber etc.). It also doesn't provide any haptic feedback, or precise trigger control. Latency is surely higher as well.

There seem to be plenty of Bluetooth VR controllers out there for sale 🤷‍♂️

If it had to be one from the other VR headsets out there, maybe that’s an indication that the VR controller demand exists only within the group of people that actually do VR gaming today?

 

[turbineseaplane]

We can all go in circles about this, but actual VR Game Devs are the ones clamoring for controllers

They are not anti AVP -- they've simply tried and realized that hand tracking alone isn't good enough and thus they aren't interested in AVP porting or development at this time.

They are literally telling Apple what they could do (add controller support) to instantly create an uptick in content and thus interest and demand.

 

[mode11]

There seem to be plenty of Bluetooth VR controllers out there for sale 🤷‍♂️

OK, but does AVP support any of them? Supporting generic console controllers is a lot more straightforward, but less useful in this context.

If it had to be one from the other VR headsets out there, maybe that’s an indication that the VR controller demand exists only within the group of people that actually do VR gaming today?

Not sure what you're saying here, but the bottom line is that the AVP doesn't support VR controllers, and it seems like game devs consider them essential for a good gaming experience.

 

[NT1440]

OK, but does AVP support any of them? Supporting generic console controllers is a lot more straightforward, but less useful in this context.



Not sure what you're saying here, but the bottom line is that the AVP doesn't support VR controllers, and it seems like game devs consider them essential for a good gaming experience.

Apple can’t do anything to make Meta or Vive’s controllers compatible, they don’t use Bluetooth or open standards for pairing. So Meta or other VR headset manufacturers would be the ones who’d have to develop the support.

That said, there are dozens of Bluetooth VR controllers. Some seem to be cheap pointing devices, others are expensive but have all sorts of feature parity with the big player’s controllers.

I think when it specifically comes to VR controllers, there is no industry standard to adhere to. So that alone is a fragmentation nightmare holding devs back from being able to adopt them.

But, overall it seems like a tempest in a teapot because the market for games that specifically require a VR controller seems to be a small subsection that devs haven’t deemed worthy of exploration 🤷‍♂️

 

[mode11]

Apple can’t do anything to make Meta or Vive’s controllers compatible, they don’t use Bluetooth or open standards for pairing. So Meta or other VR headset manufacturers would be the ones who’d have to develop the support.

OK - so Apple needs to release their own then, or...

That said, there are dozens of Bluetooth VR controllers. Some seem to be cheap pointing devices, others are expensive but have all sorts of feature parity with the big player’s controllers.

...pick a decent third party one and support it.

I think when it specifically comes to VR controllers, there is no industry standard to adhere to. So that alone is a fragmentation nightmare holding devs back from being able to adopt them.

Again, this is Apple's problem to solve. You don't get HTC complaining there's no industry standard, therefore no controller for you.

But, overall it seems like a tempest in a teapot because the market for games that specifically require a VR controller seems to be a small subsection that devs haven’t deemed worthy of exploration 🤷‍♂️

This is a circular argument. There's few games for the AVP because there's no proper controllers. Whereas games likely account for a massive proportion of VR content on existing platforms.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The reality in the VR space is that Apple are in no position to dictate anything and if they want content on their platform, they need to do a lot of work to help developers out because they have no install base thus no interest from developers.

The install base isn’t going to come without lots more content and apps.

Apple should really embrace gaming uses and the existing VR gaming content, whether they like it or not, because it’s the one use case where VR has proven to have real staying power.