It’s not circular if the market segment overall isn’t making any money.
Why compete to be the “best” in a market that is a blip (VR gaming)?
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Honest feelings about the Vision Pro after nearly 5 months
- Thread starter turbineseaplane
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Why compete to be the “best” in a market that is a blip (VR gaming)?
That’s an argument to not have a VR headset at all
I would also argue Apple should not even be in this space right now, so I’ll agree on that point for sure.
But if they are going to have a VR headset, they definitely need to be in the 1 space that has proven to have some sticking power, financials aside (see above)
Bottom line, they need the install base to grow.
That won’t happen if there isn’t stuff for people to do…that they actually want to do
So far in VR, in any numbers, that’s only been gaming.
The VP can also do 3D objects and virtual environments, but even just for virtual windows/displays I think the VP form factor allows for better implementation with solid world-anchoring, more flexibility with window arrangement, displays can’t get washed out in bright light, no sunglass tint over the real world, and good eye/hand-tracking input. Devil is in the details so these could be dealmakers/dealbreakers for some. Personally I might choose a basic Apple HMD over a VP, if it could anchor virtual windows to my laptop. Not sure if other HMDs can do that now, but either way the ones I’ve seen all have major shortcomings, including not having Apple ecosystem integration.
Obviously Apple wants the VP to have as much market reach as possible, but I see no indication they expect it to succeed an iPhone. It isn’t designed for iPhone-type use cases, and Apple has never advertised it being used that way to my knowledge. If anything, they may be hoping it succeeds the iPad or maybe eventually the MacBook.
Fair enough, the iPad may be a better analogy, or perhaps they just hope it will be like the Apple Watch - a small but significant niche that contributes to Apple's overall growth, whilst helping to compensate for any slowing of the iPhone's.
A far-off descendent of the AVP might truly succeed the iPhone, if the display section, at least, becomes more akin to a pair of glasses (the processing section could be remote, in a pocket).
Agreed. Early on while I was still figuring out the most comfortable way to wear it and which strap I liked the best plus switching more often between contacts and the optical lenses I had red lines twice after wearing it. That’s been it. Even after several hours.
Yeah you can stream anything you’re seeing in the device via AirPlay to an Apple TV with the exception of copyrighted content like movies, TV shows, etc. Not just 3D or regular movies you can purchase or rent in your library from the Store built into the Apple TV+ app but you can’t share any immersive content that you can view in Apple TV+ either. I’m not sure if you can do it from streaming apps like Disney+ because I’ve never tried.
Since it’s an Apple TV I’ve already got all of those apps installed anyway. At least you couldn’t do any of that in visionOS v1.x and I’ve not read anything that indicates that this particular copyright restriction has been removed in the visionOS 2.0 betas nor have I even bothered to try. Other than media though you can use AirPlay to send it all to the Apple TV and I’m assuming any other device that supports AirPlay but the Apple TV is the only device I’ve tried it with.
Indeed. But a lot of the use cases Apple has been pushing in marketing are not much more than gimmicks. Spatial photo’s? Meet with dinosaurs? Occasional use at best, you’re not going to spend hours on it.
And I find watching video content a borderline use case. I have a number of big screens in my house that I can use, I don’t feel the need to use a headset for that. And I’m not interested in gaming.
So it depends very much how quickly the App Store is maturing, and what kind of titles are appearing in it.
Anyone else see this?
www.uploadvr.com
Surreal Touch Is A 6DoF VR Controller For Apple Vision Pro
A startup says it will sell 6DoF tracked VR controllers for Apple Vision Pro called Surreal Touch, and we spoke to the founder.
www.uploadvr.com
I wore mine for 2.5 hours straight on a flight last week with the overhead strap, no issues at all.
Watched Civil War and it’s really intense and made better watching on a virtual movie theater size screen.
Watched Civil War and it’s really intense and made better watching on a virtual movie theater size screen.
Oh, so that’s why Apple are avoiding hand controllers. I feel dumb for doubting their vision.
Well, that’s something. I was going to retort that I don’t care about screen size, but I have to admit that’s not really true. I avoid watching videos on my iPhone and instead watch tv on my iMac or home cinema.
But I don’t like the idea of wearing a headset for it.
I got into VR when I tried on a Quest 1 at an art gallery for a Banksy exhibit. I bought the Quest 2 but hated the hand controllers and the poor resolution And the Boundary.
the VP solves all these problems. I added a CPAP strap to the top and can wear it for 2-3 hours no problem
I also never watch media on a phone or an iPad
Love it for flying.
the VP solves all these problems. I added a CPAP strap to the top and can wear it for 2-3 hours no problem
I also never watch media on a phone or an iPad
Love it for flying.
Its of course not as comfortable as being in a real theater without a headset, but also don’t have to deal with annoying people making noise, talking, etc. 😅
Just got mine today and 100%. It’s so uncomfortable, unwieldy and heavy. But it’s a glimpse of the future.Agree on ALL counts, I need to read the full review but I agree on every point you quoted. Actually really surprised he had a similar conclusion I did after spending time with Vision Pro: "the Vision Pro makes the iPad look like a productivity powerhouse in comparison" I gave my iPad away long before the Vision Pro came out because I wasn't really using it but using Vision Pro made me appreciate the iPad again (maybe Matt didn't see it that way though). Turns out the 13" iPad, while really nice in some circumstances, was too big and cumbersome to manipulate or hold over my head and that's why I didn't enjoy using it. I don't think I'll buy any size other than 11" again. I suppose iPad is one of the rare Apple products where optimizing for thinness and lightness really matters, at least to me. Vision Pro is absolutely in that bucket.
I thought at the bare minimum the expensive purchase of a Vision Pro could be justified by the virtual Mac display experience because I really can't work without at LEAST one big 4k or ultrawide display, but virtual display fell really short of my expectations. It does not hold a candle to a real 4k display. Honestly I wouldn't even use it as a substitute for a real external display while traveling, and that says a lot to me. Also the foveation trick they were forced to implement is noticeable which is another annoying quirk that never lets you forget you've got two displays beaming a video feed into your eyeballs.
The Vision Pro will be complete once using it is no more cumbersome or irritating than picking up a thin and light M4 iPad. Right now it's an epic poem just to put the thing on and get as comfortable as you can be (which is to say, uncomfortable). It's not just weight either: so long as wearing a Vision Pro feels like wearing a VR headset in terms of FOV, passthrough quality, etc. my brain refuses to immerse myself in the experience. It's not magical yet, it's just the best implementation of VR I've used and I'm not interested in VR. My bar for AR/VR is that you have to convince me I'm still in the real world, Vision Pro doesn't do that.
Vision Pro has a long way to go. I think the news of Apple suspending work on Vision Pro 2 is not because they've given up on the product or even because they're focusing on a cheaper model (that's probably part of it), but because they know there's no point releasing gen 2 until they can make a major leap away from "Apple Vision Pro is a mixed reality headset" to the ideal "Apple Vision Pro blends your real world with the digital world." I think there's a significant difference between those two statements. In some ways an argument could be made that using an iPad is closer to "holding the content in your hand" rather than "using a tablet computer", at the very least it's a lot more compelling to use than Vision Pro to me.
I am still beyond excited for the ultimate "regular pair of glasses" product way down the line but I'll probably be retired and over the hype by that point
What I don’t understand is, if you’re going to have the battery in your back pocket why not put the motherboard there too. And the fans. Surely that would help with the weight.
What protocol exists today that could push that display resolution over a wire?
Now, everything else that has to be sent bidirectionally with low enough latency needs to be sent over that wire. That’s the camera feeds, Lidar, etc.
I‘ve spent quite a few hours in Vision Pro today. The eye tracking is a bit wonky but that might be because it tells me that my eyes are not close enough to the displays. I need another light seal.
The camera passthrough is pretty bad, especially when viewing other displays such as your iPhone. And even for other stuff it‘s very noticeably grainy and very blurry. This looks weird when having the ultra-sharp visionOS UI on top of it. That would be the most obvious point of improvement for me besides the FOV.
For me personally it has been the most comfortable so far to use in bed laying in a 30 degrees angle pretty much. Sitting straight is okay too, but moving around can make you feel its weight and movement on your head more.
I don‘t have any particular use case for it yet, besides entertainment, but I know one thing: When I leave it, I want to go right back in. It feels magical and if this can be done in more compact glasses in the future, this will change everything.
The camera passthrough is pretty bad, especially when viewing other displays such as your iPhone. And even for other stuff it‘s very noticeably grainy and very blurry. This looks weird when having the ultra-sharp visionOS UI on top of it. That would be the most obvious point of improvement for me besides the FOV.
For me personally it has been the most comfortable so far to use in bed laying in a 30 degrees angle pretty much. Sitting straight is okay too, but moving around can make you feel its weight and movement on your head more.
I don‘t have any particular use case for it yet, besides entertainment, but I know one thing: When I leave it, I want to go right back in. It feels magical and if this can be done in more compact glasses in the future, this will change everything.
Yeah I wonder if a wire could move all the sensor data to the battery pack then all the video data back to the headset without latency.
But I think another issue with moving the main processing to the battery pack (I’m guessing the R chip would probably need to stay in the headset) is heat dissipation. The headset has fans so they’d have to be moved to the battery pack too, so then the pack probably can’t be carried in a pocket where there is no air flow. I suppose it could be clipped to a belt or something, but that doesn’t seem Apple-y.
These questions make me wonder how the rumors/speculation about the cheaper Vision headset using an iPhone for processing would work. Will the wire and iPhone’s port be fast enough? Will the phone be able to stay cool enough?
The iPhone’s USB port has nothing like the bandwidth necessary for two streams of very high res video, plus all the camera / sensor data. Plus it’s unlikely to have enough processing power (the current AVP uses an M2). And even if it did, continuously maxing it out would drain the battery quickly, so you’d still need a separate battery pack.
Yeah it seems like the iPhone port would need an upgrade to Thunderbolt which I suppose Apple might do for the Pro iPhones if they really want people to buy the cheaper Vision headset. For the battery issue, I suppose they could make some external battery which would probably be fine. But IF the phone processor is powerful enough, I still don’t know what they would do about cooling if it’s meant to be pocketed.
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I don’t even think Thunderbolt can carry enough for all that’s required, let alone the latency problem.
And that’s *with* it not being calibrated properly. If it’s telling you that your eyes are too far away nothing is going to work as well as intended, passthrough included.