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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,212
Gotta be in it to win it
10 record breaking quarters is the past.Down quarters is the present.Samsung and Sony recovering from their dismal quarters is the present.

10 explosive, record breaking quarters is exactly the point, as Apple became the most valuable company and valuable brand under Tim Cook.

Just because they cater to the different market doesn't mean they cant be compared revenue wise.Samsung does not enjoy obscene margins on its flagships as much as Apple so for a proper profits analysis we need to look at the entire picture.I don't bother with absolutes but rather relative ratios.Samsung's share and profits gre.Apple's didn't and on the contrary they fell.This is a cause for concern

Samsung themselves stated a revenue concern in the article I quoted. As far as comparing what, comparing two companies with different business models where there is a tiny intersection of business is an internet talking point. Comparing phones to phones is a more apt comparison. Might as well compare Hyundai to Ferrari because the both make cars using your logic.

Why?Because you say so?Huawei specifically stated iirc that they plan to surpass Apple's share by 2020
In addition despite being a Chinese company their hardware rivals Apple

They can say what they want, it's Samsung that has to worry.

The point was that Samsung is catching up to Apple.Tim Cook has a LOT of work to do if he doesn't want to undermine investor confidence

Moving the goal sticks much depending on the company you are talking about? :p
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
10 record breaking quarters is the past.Down quarters is the present.Samsung and Sony recovering from their dismal quarters is the present.
But you've been saying the same thing during that past too even though the circumstances were essentially reversed (or at the very least very different).
[doublepost=1469802470][/doublepost]
The point was that Samsung is catching up to Apple.Tim Cook has a LOT of work to do if he doesn't want to undermine investor confidence
Seems like the investors have been and still are doing just fine.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
But you've been saying the same thing during that past too even though the circumstances were essentially reversed (or at the very least very different).
[doublepost=1469802470][/doublepost]
Seems like the investors have been and still are doing just fine.
I hold Apple,Google and Microsoft to different standards than Samsung and the other Androids.Apple once upon a time was a company full of home runs like the 90% of its product line.Mac,iPad,iPhone,iPod all smash hits.Its sad to see a down quarter from such a great company
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
I hold Apple,Google and Microsoft to different standards than Samsung and the other Androids.Apple once upon a time was a company full of home runs like the 90% of its product line.Mac,iPad,iPhone,iPod all smash hits.Its sad to see a down quarter from such a great company
Well, if companies are held to different standards, then comparisons between them would be of the "apples vs oranges" variety it would seem.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
all smash hits.Its sad to see a down quarter from such a great company
But not everything was a smash hit from Apple, I think you're letting nostalgia color your opinion of how great Apple back in the day. It was don't get me wrong, but they misfire a number of times.

I hold Apple,Google and Microsoft to different standards
I think if you want to measure a companies success against another, you need to be consistent and use the same measurements.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
10 explosive, record breaking quarters is exactly the point, as Apple became the most valuable company and valuable brand under Tim Cook.

And again I WILL SAY that Jobs was repsonsible for it as the iPhone was the reason it happened



Samsung themselves stated a revenue concern in the article I quoted. As far as comparing what, comparing two companies with different business models where there is a tiny intersection of business is an internet talking point. Comparing phones to phones is a more apt comparison. Might as well compare Hyundai to Ferrari because the both make cars using your logic.
Comparing only limited divsion does not make sense.Samsung in addition also has to worry about their risk exposure which is multiple times that of Apple in all the sectors that they operate.Apple only faces risk in the smartphone and tablet industry.If Samsung only had to worry about their mobile division maybe the results would be different as there would be more focus



say what they want, it's Samsung that has to worry.

When it comes to shipments Samsung is No.1 .Apple is 2nd.Apple is doubltess more worried about losing their spot first.Huawei and Samsung both have 1 objective : Beat Apple





Well, if companies are held to different standards, then comparisons between them would be of the "apples vs oranges" variety it would seem.

I think if you want to measure a companies success against another, you need to be consistent and use the same measurements.
But the media does that already.Its full of praises for Samsung when they manage a turnaround when by Apple's standards its crap.Sony just somehow managed to breakeven and we have commenters and blogs praising them left and right.If Apple somehow managed to reach that point we would be seeing stories about Apple being doomed again
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
And again I WILL SAY that Jobs was repsonsible for it as the iPhone was the reason it happened




Comparing only limited divsion does not make sense.Samsung in addition also has to worry about their risk exposure which is multiple times that of Apple in all the sectors that they operate.Apple only faces risk in the smartphone and tablet industry.If Samsung only had to worry about their mobile division maybe the results would be different as there would be more focus





When it comes to shipments Samsung is No.1 .Apple is 2nd.Apple is doubltess more worried about losing their spot first.Huawei and Samsung both have 1 objective : Beat Apple








But the media does that already.Its full of praises for Samsung when they manage a turnaround when by Apple's standards its crap.Sony just somehow managed to breakeven and we have commenters and blogs praising them left and right.If Apple somehow managed to reach that point we would be seeing stories about Apple being doomed again
So So media doing things for their own interests--sensationalism essentially to get people's attention--means it's the way to go in discussions? Once again, the "logic" is rather interesting there.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,212
Gotta be in it to win it
And again I WILL SAY that Jobs was repsonsible for it as the iPhone was the reason it happened




Comparing only limited divsion does not make sense.Samsung in addition also has to worry about their risk exposure which is multiple times that of Apple in all the sectors that they operate.Apple only faces risk in the smartphone and tablet industry.If Samsung only had to worry about their mobile division maybe the results would be different as there would be more focus





When it comes to shipments Samsung is No.1 .Apple is 2nd.Apple is doubltess more worried about losing their spot first.Huawei and Samsung both have 1 objective : Beat Apple








But the media does that already.Its full of praises for Samsung when they manage a turnaround when by Apple's standards its crap.Sony just somehow managed to breakeven and we have commenters and blogs praising them left and right.If Apple somehow managed to reach that point we would be seeing stories about Apple being doomed again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Cooper_(inventor)

This chap invented the cell phone. Steve Jobs put an apple spin on it and Tim Cook further put an apple spin on it as well as branching out into new directions while taking the company to the most valued and most valuable brand. There is no other way to spin that, try as one may.

It makes no sense to compare companies with two disparate business models. Might as well compare Hyundai to ferrari then because they both make cars; a valid comparison eh?

Sure Samsung ships more phones, apple garners more profits. What's important and what's not.
 

Zirel

Suspended
Jul 24, 2015
2,196
3,008
And again I WILL SAY that Jobs

We're not dumb, ok? We know you're saying that because Steve Jobs is dead.

did jobs go to Google or Samsung or Xiaomi?

Btw, ATM, Huawei is insignificant, even Samsung, with 77 million shipments in a GOOD quarter, cannot match Apple's revenue by a long shot!

Selling cheap phones doesn't matter, because people are always going for the cheapest.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
So So media doing things for their own interests--sensationalism essentially to get people's attention--means it's the way to go in discussions? Once again, the "logic" is rather interesting there.
So all those professional financial analysts on Bloomberg follow double standards because they are after sensationalism?

By your logic ,if we set a common standard for all tech companies,everyone apart from Apple had a horrible quarter and are gonna file for bankruptcy protection
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
So all those professional financial analysts on Bloomberg follow double standards because they are after sensationalism?

By your logic ,if we set a common standard for all tech companies,everyone apart from Apple had a horrible quarter and are gonna file for bankruptcy protection
Yeah, once again, that's not really what we are taking about and not really how it all works.
 
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Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
Yeah, once again, that's not really what we are taking about and not really how it all works.
Nice deflection.The fact is you cannot have a NO HOLDS BARRED single standard for 1 company.Standards differ from company to company
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
You seem to have the best handle on this. Maybe you can elucidate.
Can you compare Apple's good performance with Sony?Can estimates of Apple be applied to Sony?If we are to apply 1 standard for all companies.We should expect HUGE profits from Sony right?
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
Nice deflection.The fact is you cannot have a NO HOLDS BARRED single standard for 1 company.Standards differ from company to company
The deflection appears to be elsewhere and not in what I said. The main point there is that you yourself have pointed out that you have different standards for different companies and yet try to make equivalent comparisons without accounting for that. It doesn't work like that, except in the realm of pure rhetoric. But as usual we are just going in the same circles.
 
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Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
Market cap, p/e ratio, beta, avg vol, dividend and yield etc.
Lets compare Sony and Apple

Sony Market cap : 40.81 B
Apple Market Cap: 561.6 B

Sony PE Ratio : 61.44
Apple PE Ratio : 10

Beta is basically market risk and is the same for both Apple and Sony.I concede this is a common standard for both

Sony Div Yield :0.53%
Apple Dividend Yield: 2.12%

Now YOU tell me how are you going to establish a common standard using this data?
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,212
Gotta be in it to win it
Lets compare Sony and Apple

Sony Market cap : 40.81 B
Apple Market Cap: 561.6 B

Sony PE Ratio : 61.44
Apple PE Ratio : 10

Beta is basically market risk and is the same for both Apple and Sony.I concede this is a common standard for both

Sony Div Yield :0.53%
Apple Dividend Yield: 2.12%

Now YOU tell me how are you going to establish a common standard using this data?
I didn't establish this standard data, Bloomberg, wsj and the rest of the financial reporting world did.
 

jhoff8600

macrumors member
Mar 21, 2016
53
35
FTFY: I still think the Watch is the perfect symbol of post-Jobs Apple.

Its a solution looking for a problem - an expensive watch that you can't read in bright sunlight. IMHO a SmartWatch needs to do two things: (a) tell the time as well as a regular watch and (b) display the sender of incoming text/email so I can decide whether I need to take out my phone to read it. It also needs to survive at least one night of not being charged - or a 24 hour plane trip - otherwise its going to let you down just when you need it most. There seems to be a niche market amongst fitness enthusiasts, but who wants to do sport with a big, heavy lump of a Smartwatch when you could have something lighter and designed-for-purpose like a FitBit that only cost a fraction as much to replace when it ends up at the bottom of the sea or gets nicked from a changing room? Meanwhile, if you're serious about monitoring heart rate then you don't put the sensors on the back of your wrist...

Then there's the UI - its got a force-sensitive touch screen that can distinguish between touch, tap and hard-press (more dimensions of input than the original iPhone) and its got voice recognition, so why on earth does it need a physical button and a "digital crown"? A watch crown is horrible ergonomically and is barely acceptable on a standard quartz watch where you use it a few times a year to set the time. In any case, unless you use valuable screen space to say what the wheel is going to do in any situation, its going to be 'mystery meat' navigation (but then modern UI "design" seems to love mystery meat). One of the key design decisions of the iPhone was to focus entirely on touch-screen input and avoid the mess of buttons, keyboards, jog wheels, joypads & toothpick styli on contemporary phones. At most, the Watch should have had the touch screen and a home button (with the familiar iPad functionality). If it did need another dimension of input, then pretty much anything but a watch crown (the bezel on Samsung watches seems better). A braver decision would have been to say "hey, it sucks to use two hands to operate your watch so lets make Siri the default UI".

Then there's the target market. TLDNR: adopt a bit of enlightened self-interest, support Android and double (at least) the number of potential buyers. How hard can it be? Samsung are working on iPhone support for their Gear S2 watches. Remember, iPod didn't take off until it supported Windows - and then proceeded to sell a lot of Macs.

Meanwhile, watches have a dual role as jewellery and, however nicely the corners are rounded, a square lump with a normally-black display doesn't really cut it. Face it - "function-over-form" is not a selling point for fashion. Heck, if I was going to spend more than $200 on a watch I'd probably buy a mechanical skeleton watch because clockwork is cool and I wouldn't be buying it for functionality.

However, if you ignore all those issues and decide you are going to make the Watch anyway, there's nothing wrong with the $10,000 model, provided you understand that its an advert, not a product. If you're going to try to sell the Watch as a fashion item then you need something with an obscene notional price tag to give away to celebs (or even pay them to wear) to promote your product (no point giving a pop star a watch with a RRP less than her 2nd worst pair of shoes - which she didn't pay for either).

Anyway, even if I do decide to get a smartwatch it will either be a Pebble (daylight-readable, always-on display, acceptable battery life - but looks cheap) or I'd give the Samsung G2 a closer look (looks like a watch & if you are going to have physical controls the rotating bezel makes sense). The Apple Watch leaves me cold.

Also, if we're bashing Apple's recent attention to detail:

The Magic Mouse that you can't use while charging. Logitech worked out the rocket science of "put the charging port where the wire would go on a wired mouse" years ago.

The Apple Pencil: leave your pencil sticking out of the iPad like that to charge and it will get broken - maybe not today, but soon. Why doesn't it magnetically snap to the smart connector to store & charge? Or snap to the other edge and charge inductively? Either of those would let it charge alongside the iPad without needing a separate adapter and cable. Why is the M-to-F adapter a separate bit to lose and not built into the cap? Where's the Pencil loop on the Apple keyboard & cases?


Ok. I don't describe myself as an apple fan boy. Some others might. However I am capable of formulating and accepting criticism, and I find I hard to argue with any of your points. Very well thought out FTFY.
 
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