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Benjamin Frost

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It scares me to think where will we go to if Apple starts making terrible and confusing products too? Google? Microsoft? All their products are just as half baked if not worse. Take a look at the Surface Book. Great on paper but with so many software issues. The Surface Pro can barely last 5 hours on a single charge. That's terrible in 2016.

Android still can't get basic sleep right and wakelocks are a constant issue. Nexus phones still struggle with poor build quality and battery life. Just take a look at the Nexus 9. Apart from the S7 Edge most Android phones are utter trash. In terms of laptops, the occasional Dell is decent but again most of it is trash.

Right now to me, yes Apple has lost its way a bit. They are releasing redundant products. But at the same time, most of the competition is far worse.

You raise a good point.

One thing that has marked the history of computing is just how poor the products have been from everyone except Apple, particularly for traditional computers. Apple was a breath of fresh air, but its ease of use we take for granted in things like driving a car. It's only in computing that products were so difficult to use. I think this is because tech people tend to be very logic-led, and find it hard to apply tech to the general public. It took Steve Jobs to make computers accessible.

And even now, there is an awful lot that even Apple could improve when it comes to usability, especially with the iPad. I sometimes think they don't have enough normal people on their books. The Apple Watch, for example, is a classic tech nerd product. You only had to look at the first keynote, with the incredibly confusing presentation from Kevin, to see that this was a engineering-led product. For it to succeed, it would need a huge overhaul of the whole UI, and a redesign of the flawed hardware. I don't think Apple have it in them to do this.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
You raise a good point.

One thing that has marked the history of computing is just how poor the products have been from everyone except Apple, particularly for traditional computers. Apple was a breath of fresh air, but its ease of use we take for granted in things like driving a car. It's only in computing that products were so difficult to use. I think this is because tech people tend to be very logic-led, and find it hard to apply tech to the general public. It took Steve Jobs to make computers accessible.

And even now, there is an awful lot that even Apple could improve when it comes to usability, especially with the iPad. I sometimes think they don't have enough normal people on their books. The Apple Watch, for example, is a classic tech nerd product. You only had to look at the first keynote, with the incredibly confusing presentation from Kevin, to see that this was a engineering-led product. For it to succeed, it would need a huge overhaul of the whole UI, and a redesign of the flawed hardware. I don't think Apple have it in them to do this.
The Apple Watch is succeeding according to all accounts. Because its not selling like the iPhone? Not sure why you think it isn't.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
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The point is not who invented the iphone, we know who was CEO in 2007. The point is 2016 going into 2017. 6 years later the company, by every measure is doing extraordinary well. That apple is going down the tubes due to one bad quarter is almost as bad as blaming the president and saying the US economy is going down the tubes(which it may be) due to one down day in the markets.
And you could put any Tom,Dick or Harry who knows how to manage huge corporations in Tim's place and he would still do an outstanding job because Steve handed Cook a Company with multiple cash cow products and an organisation filled with cash.The only way it could go from there is UP .If we focus on what Cook did HIMSELF,its just Apple Watch and a potential Apple Car

You cant compare an economy and a company.There isnt a single economy out there which didnt face hard times but they come out of it eventually.The same doesnt apply in business,Theres so much competition out there that lethargy will wipe out a company if not careful.Tim is somehwat going that route by resevring ALL OF THE MAIN UPGRADEWORTHY FEATURES for the iPhone 8.

We need the iPhone 8 yesterday
[doublepost=1469354495][/doublepost]
The Apple Watch is succeeding according to all accounts. Because its not selling like the iPhone? Not sure why you think it isn't.
I own an Apple Watch and the grand total I have seen out there in the wild is 2 in 6 months and internationally around 5.Your statements are false
 
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maflynn

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May 3, 2009
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The Apple Watch, for example, is a classic tech nerd product.
This is the first product that didn't come from (or through) Steve Jobs and I think because of that, its missing a lot of the simplicity. I own and enjoy my apple watch but when I first got the apple watch the UI was a bit daunting. From what I've read on the net, others felt the same way. In the past Apple's success was making things simple to use.

I do think overall the apple watch is a popular product, I have no idea if its meeting Apple's internal estimates or not, but compared to other smart watches its the most popular.
 
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Radon87000

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This is the first product that didn't come from (or through) Steve Jobs and I think because of that, its missing a lot of the simplicity. I own and enjoy my apple watch but when I first got the apple watch the UI was a bit daunting. From what I've read on the net, others felt the same way. In the past Apple's success was making things simple to use.

I do think overall the apple watch is a popular product, I have no idea if its meeting Apple's internal estimates or not, but compared to other smart watches its the most popular.
The main problem with the Apple Watch for me more than the simplicity is its speed.Its too slow for its own good.Jobs would not have released such a product in such a form.Opening the Uber App on Watch is slower than the time it takes to take out my iPhone and book an Uber through it
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
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Opening the Uber App on Watch is slower than the time it takes to take out my iPhone and book an Uber through it
WatchOS 3 will help with that, to some degree. The small display is such that it does not lend itself to many of the tasks that can be done better on the iPhone.

Still, I do find it useful and enjoy wearing it and while there are some limitations, it does extend the usefulness of the phone
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
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Gotta be in it to win it
And you could put any Tom,Dick or Harry who knows how to manage huge corporations in Tim's place and he would still do an outstanding job because Steve handed Cook a Company with multiple cash cow products and an organisation filled with cash.The only way it could go from there is UP .If we focus on what Cook did HIMSELF,its just Apple Watch and a potential Apple Car

You cant compare an economy and a company.There isnt a single economy out there which didnt face hard times but they come out of it eventually.The same doesnt apply in business,Theres so much competition out there that lethargy will wipe out a company if not careful.Tim is somehwat going that route by resevring ALL OF THE MAIN UPGRADEWORTHY FEATURES for the iPhone 8.

We need the iPhone 8 yesterday
[doublepost=1469354495][/doublepost]
I own an Apple Watch and the grand total I have seen out there in the wild is 2 in 6 months and internationally around 5.Your statements are false
Or maybe not as to your CEO comments. SJ could have screwed the company up in 2016, since we're playing what if games and Tim may have needed to step in and save it.

The Apple Watch is as plentiful as flies in the NY area. But let's say my statements are false because you don't notice any Apple watches. Riiiight.
[doublepost=1469362281][/doublepost]
This is the first product that didn't come from (or through) Steve Jobs and I think because of that, its missing a lot of the simplicity. I own and enjoy my apple watch but when I first got the apple watch the UI was a bit daunting. From what I've read on the net, others felt the same way. In the past Apple's success was making things simple to use.

I do think overall the apple watch is a popular product, I have no idea if its meeting Apple's internal estimates or not, but compared to other smart watches its the most popular.
I bought my son an AW when he graduated with an advanced degree (which was right after it came out). He enjoys using, but said he could get along with it. I understand what he is saying; however, if apple is going with the AW where I think they are going, it's going to be interesting and a big differentiator. Hiring a HIPAA laywer should be an indication, but it's going to be a lot of baby steps.

As far as simplicity, maybe the first AW iteration needed refinement...but then again iphone 1 wasn't stellar either. It lacked copy and paste (and I don't remember the other critiques over the accolades). Really Steve Jobs? In 2007 no copy and paste?
 
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Sill

macrumors 6502a
Nov 14, 2014
881
564
Sometimes a well reasoned answer doesn't is an opinion of doing the right thing. It's my opinion corporate philanthropy is the right thing to do. As I said companies are already doing it. Walmart has given 100s of millions in donations. It's not like we are breaking new ground here. Tim stepped up apples corporations philanthropy. It's not as if this started simultaneously with this discussion.

I'm sure it didn't, and it also didn't begin being an irresponsible use of shareholders' resources with this discussion either. But once again, simply reiterating that you think its right, that others are doing it, are nothing more than a child's defense. "All the other kids are doing it!"

I'm not sure what "well reasoned " answer your looking for since many corporations are already engaged in philanthropy for their own reasons.

From many standpoints including economics and respect of the law, a company has to justify everything it does. Any outlay has to withstand scrutiny. If you think corporate philanthropy is justified, if you think it should be part of a business model, you should be able to produce a reasoned case for it, rather than just pablum about how "its the right thing to do" and "others are doing it".
So, once again, given that these corporate governing boards are giving away money that doesn't belong to them, why is it "the right thing to do"? Why is it that people who have fiduciary responsibilities to take care of money that other people are risking have some sort of "obligation in today's society" to spend that money on charities that they see fit before the full benefit of that money is realized by the shareholder? Why is it that you think its proper that those shareholders do not have first say in how their money is used? How much more specific do I need to be?

And after many back and forth I'd like you to explain how this contributes further to the thread premise.

Refer to the posts where you and I first interacted. I spoke of my growing disdain of Cook's policies amongst others' posts regarding their dissatisfaction with his performance and that of Apple's these past few years. I also spoke of how Steve ran the company and how it abstained from both politics and philanthropy, as Jobs loathed the government and preferred proper, personal philanthropy done in privacy and not for public spectacle. You rose to Cook's defense by defending his policies and his involvement in both institutionalized philanthropy and corporate lobbying. You also mentioned that Steve's management style was "bullying", whereas Cook was the nice guy.

Now, read the thread title. Its my contention that the discussion of Apple's newfound love for corporate interference in politics and its greatly expanded philanthropic efforts have direct bearing on the idea that "Apple has lost its way". Since these two things can be directly traced to Cook's tenure as CEO, and since the previous lack of Apple's involvement in those two things can be directly traced to the second portion of the thread title "Steve Jobs' love of simplicity is gone", in a corporate sense, then I say it is perfectly reasoned that this discussion directly relates to the thread premise.

So, despite your attempts to sidestep the issue, it does correlate directly to the discussion. Now I have answered your question, I respectfully request that you answer mine.
 

I7guy

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Nov 30, 2013
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Gotta be in it to win it
I'm sure it didn't, and it also didn't begin being an irresponsible use of shareholders' resources with this discussion either. But once again, simply reiterating that you think its right, that others are doing it, are nothing more than a child's defense. "All the other kids are doing it!"



From many standpoints including economics and respect of the law, a company has to justify everything it does. Any outlay has to withstand scrutiny. If you think corporate philanthropy is justified, if you think it should be part of a business model, you should be able to produce a reasoned case for it, rather than just pablum about how "its the right thing to do" and "others are doing it".
So, once again, given that these corporate governing boards are giving away money that doesn't belong to them, why is it "the right thing to do"? Why is it that people who have fiduciary responsibilities to take care of money that other people are risking have some sort of "obligation in today's society" to spend that money on charities that they see fit before the full benefit of that money is realized by the shareholder? Why is it that you think its proper that those shareholders do not have first say in how their money is used? How much more specific do I need to be?



Refer to the posts where you and I first interacted. I spoke of my growing disdain of Cook's policies amongst others' posts regarding their dissatisfaction with his performance and that of Apple's these past few years. I also spoke of how Steve ran the company and how it abstained from both politics and philanthropy, as Jobs loathed the government and preferred proper, personal philanthropy done in privacy and not for public spectacle. You rose to Cook's defense by defending his policies and his involvement in both institutionalized philanthropy and corporate lobbying. You also mentioned that Steve's management style was "bullying", whereas Cook was the nice guy.

Now, read the thread title. Its my contention that the discussion of Apple's newfound love for corporate interference in politics and its greatly expanded philanthropic efforts have direct bearing on the idea that "Apple has lost its way". Since these two things can be directly traced to Cook's tenure as CEO, and since the previous lack of Apple's involvement in those two things can be directly traced to the second portion of the thread title "Steve Jobs' love of simplicity is gone", in a corporate sense, then I say it is perfectly reasoned that this discussion directly relates to the thread premise.

So, despite your attempts to sidestep the issue, it does correlate directly to the discussion. Now I have answered your question, I respectfully request that you answer mine.
Your use of the word "irresponsible" indicates your bias in this matter; this is not a neutral discussion, this is a political right discussion. So be it.

The business case for corporate philanthropy is good will, greater brand awareness that leads to greater recognition and greater sales and higher stock prices benefiting the shareholders. A win-win all around. Now you probably won't agree with the business case, but that's fine also.

As far as politics, every one of the fortune 500 companies is involved in politics, donations, lobbying etc; that's trillions of dollars of assets behind politics. Apple was late into the game, but they definitely need to be there in 2016 and beyond.

And btw, if corporate philanthropy is not the right thing, how come so many companies are doing it and what is their rational? I'm expecting an answer to this question.

This debate, has nothing to do with the thread title. I don't understand why anyone would expect apple of 2007 to survive in 2016.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
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I own an Apple Watch and the grand total I have seen out there in the wild is 2 in 6 months and internationally around 5.Your statements are false
And I see more than that on a daily basis. I guess that makes your statements false using that same logic, right?
 
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grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
… I own an Apple Watch and the grand total I have seen out there in the wild is 2 in 6 months and internationally around 5.Your statements are false

I have seen just one. In a technical office, but worn by someone who regularly goes to the gym etc. so I guess that his use cases are primarily health-oriented and/or sports-oriented.

… Really Steve Jobs? In 2007 no copy and paste?

Good point. My first and last iPhone was an original (MB213B) – refurbished and gifted to me in April 2012 (with version 3.1.3 of the OS, so I was never struck by the soft limitation of the original).
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
7,777
6,255
Or maybe not as to your CEO comments. SJ could have screwed the company up in 2016, since we're playing what if games and Tim may have needed to step in and save it.

The Apple Watch is as plentiful as flies in the NY area. But let's say my statements are false because you don't notice any Apple watches. Riiiight.
[doublepost=1469362281][/doublepost]
I bought my son an AW when he graduated with an advanced degree (which was right after it came out). He enjoys using, but said he could get along with it. I understand what he is saying; however, if apple is going with the AW where I think they are going, it's going to be interesting and a big differentiator. Hiring a HIPAA laywer should be an indication, but it's going to be a lot of baby steps.

As far as simplicity, maybe the first AW iteration needed refinement...but then again iphone 1 wasn't stellar either. It lacked copy and paste (and I don't remember the other critiques over the accolades). Really Steve Jobs? In 2007 no copy and paste?
Hahaha that's a good one.Steve Jobs saved the company from bankruptcy and turned it into one of the most profitable company in the world.Tim Cook can't even fix a down quarter

I see far more Fitbits than Apple Watches sadly
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
Hahaha that's a good one.Steve Jobs saved the company from bankruptcy and turned it into one of the most profitable company in the world.Tim Cook can't even fix a down quarter

I see far more Fitbits than Apple Watches sadly
Tim Cook is in so many words a failure because of a down quarter (and that's simply down from worldwide historic record highs, while still bringing in tons of money), then what is he for the worldwide historic record high from the quarter before that?
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,165
25,325
Gotta be in it to win it
Hahaha that's a good one.Steve Jobs saved the company from bankruptcy and turned it into one of the most profitable company in the world.Tim Cook can't even fix a down quarter

I see far more Fitbits than Apple Watches sadly
Don't forget Apple became the mist valuable company under, you know who?

Fitbits outsell Apple watch, half the price and a quarter of the functionality. Is that a surprise to you?
 

Sill

macrumors 6502a
Nov 14, 2014
881
564
Your use of the word "irresponsible" indicates your bias in this matter; this is not a neutral discussion, this is a political right discussion. So be it.

There is no bias on my side and it has zero to do with my personal politics, which I am happy to inform you can't be restricted to a simple left/right paradigm. I have firmly believed for quite some time that corporations have zero obligation to spend shareholder money on anything that does not directly drive the business and return value to them. It has nothing to do with any bias that you could imagine, but rather a very focused understanding of economics and politics, as well as very direct and on-going experience with what I call "institutionalized philanthropy" in my own environment.

The business case for corporate philanthropy is good will, greater brand awareness that leads to greater recognition and greater sales and higher stock prices benefiting the shareholders. A win-win all around. Now you probably won't agree with the business case, but that's fine also.

Finally, a response. Why did it take days for you to type that?
With respect to Apple, charity would not be necessary to produce any of those results you list, and indeed given that Apple until recently abstained from charity, it was definitely not needed. Under Jobs, Apple had the highest brand awareness and brand value worldwide, across multiple surveys and numerous years. They beat out corporations that had decades-long leads in the market. AT&T, General Electric, IBM, McDonalds, Pepsi, Coke, Delta, you name it, Apple beat every one of them.
Regarding Apple's stock price, it was held down for a number of years due to concerns about the health of its CEO, not by Apple's lack of corporate charity. After his death and Cook's accession to the throne, there was a very tangible relief in the financial sector that yes, Apple did have a plan in place and its being executed well. The stock price went up due to that execution, not because of charity.

As far as politics, every one of the fortune 500 companies is involved in politics, donations, lobbying etc; that's trillions of dollars of assets behind politics. Apple was late into the game, but they definitely need to be there in 2016 and beyond.... And btw, if corporate philanthropy is not the right thing, how come so many companies are doing it and what is their rational? I'm expecting an answer to this question.

Thats rather interesting - you expect me to rebut the child's numbers defense. So be it.

The reasons are many and varied, and somewhat relate to your values statement above. Indeed, they do it for good will, for brand awareness, for greater recognition and greater sales and higher stock prices benefiting the shareholders. All accurate reasons on the surface, but it rarely - if ever - is it the case in truth. For just about every case of corporate philanthropy I've considered, there is an underlying reason that has nothing to do with "doing the right thing". As I've mentioned earlier, such charity is more akin to buying carbon offset credits, a ludicrous concept if I've ever seen one and nothing less than a modern interpretation of a Potemkin Village. Everything looks good on the surface, so all is well.

Corporations promote charity as a way of pre-atoning for mistakes and evils both known and unknown. Lets talk about a couple of examples, shall we?

General Electric advances charity and hot-button causes as a way to deflect public opinion about their involvement in the military-industrial complex, as well as some very poorly designed and built nuclear reactors, while having one of the most hostile and poorly administered work environments I've ever seen. Monsanto brags about their efforts to stop hunger in the third world while Cargill commercials show happy kids on a nature walk. Yet Cargill ripped phosphate out of the ground and put out mountains of radioactive gypsum in the process; piles so high that they not only contaminate the ground water they also cause shifts in the local topography. Monsanto (along with ADM) is causing sweeping changes to the ecosystem that are so dramatic the entire industrial revolution pales next to them, so much so that I can't even begin to list them. But all three companies have a very public charitable face, so we can cut them some slack, can't we?

So, yes charity does contribute to good will and thereby protects the bottom line somewhat. But not because its "the right thing to do". Its because charity simply buys good will. It prepares the general public to have a sympathetic eye when the inevitable problem results from the things these companies do. So, company 'x' did some bad things but look at how much they do for United Way - if they weren't here giving money so many charities would be affected. This isn't philanthropy, its public relations. There are some good reasons that scripture advised on doing charity in secret, and I think that command applies here.

But rather than just look at these specific cases, lets take a macro view. If you really wanted to generate good will with the public, wouldn't the first thing that occurs to you be to lower your prices while maintaining quality, rather than keeping prices high but giving a portion of the profits away? Then customers would keep a greater portion of their money and be able to direct that money as they see fit. An even better thing would be if all these companies joined together and took their lobbying dollars away from getting specific favoritism and put it towards lowering taxes, on both corporations and individuals. That will never happen though, because government is skilled at getting companies to fight each other using the government as an ally, thereby empowering it further.

This debate, has nothing to do with the thread title. I don't understand why anyone would expect apple of 2007 to survive in 2016.

It has everything to do with it, just as I outlined in my last post. Your closing remark is absurd, as there is nothing in Apple's operations in 2007 that would make it less likely to survive in 2016. Assuming that "Apple of 2007" would include Steve being amongst the living, I would definitely say Apple would be doing more than just surviving. I think they would be thriving and helping society find direction by empowering individuals with uniquely capable tools, as they had done for the prior decade.
 

thermodynamic

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Steve's love of blaming the customer (e.g. the iphone 4 scandal, for which he knew of long in advance as an engineer told him of the situation but was ignored) is also gone.

Steve also loved to sell products that dumb people down, and his successor has been quick to point out how Americans are not employable because they're dumb...

Apple struck lightning, but since then others copied Apple and Apple also copied others. Apple tried in vain to claim it was the R&D center of the world but that little lie didn't take long to shatter, especially as the company had even copied Xerox to make the original Macintosh with...
 

Savor

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Remember before Macintosh, iPod, iPhone and iPad were released, there were already personal computers, mp3 players, smartphones, and tablets already. Steve Jobs just found a way to revitalize each industry.

I remember reading a quote said by Martin Scorsese about his good friend, George Lucas. Star Wars robbed one of the best directors in history. George lost his vision after the phenomenal success of SW as director and became more businessman than cinematic visionary. I plan to watch THX 1138 soon which I never had to try to understand his early brilliance.

Apple is kinda where George Lucas is after Steve Jobs died. More about MONEY, less about innovating industries. But people need to understand it really is hard to recapture the early magic again. You can only really do it once until it becomes cookie cutter like Marvel Cinematic Universe films and Disney Star Wars films. A fresh new coat year after year, but will they ever really capture your heart?

I enjoyed The Force Awakens enough. But let's be real. James Cameron is right that it lacked the visual flair that George Lucas had. The characters were bleh although I do like Rey. It was A New Hope reboot. The Sequel Trilogy likely never surpasses the OT for me since I grew up on them and love those characters. I love Iron Man but an MCU film has never been my Top 30 ever. I grew up on Batman, and none of the live-action entries including the ones in '89 and '08 would ever crack my Top 80.

Where films are is also where tech is as well unless Apple game changes a different industry like in automobiles. I will still watch Star Wars, Indiana Jones 5, and MCU films. I will still watch Martin Scorsese and Steven Spielberg films. Why? Because I am a fan even if they will never be as great as before like watching your favorite athlete deteriorate when they pass their prime. You can try to be nostalgic but it could really leave an impact when you were younger?

To some Apple fans, it applies the same way buying the same things over and over for those incremental updates. Whatever movie franchises come out, it will be milked to death. Whatever new design or Apple product is released, it will be milked to death. Apple saying it is the biggest update since the original for you update. Nintendo recaptured a little of their magic with the Wii only for it to be short-lived once people saw the gimmick which led to much weaker sales of the Wii U. Nothing last forever. Can't stay on top forever either. Applies to both Apple's innovation and success.

It is when you look back where you can't move forward anymore. And even if you do, you will be criticized for rehashing it, right JJ Abrams? George Lucas after Star Wars success and Apple after Steve's death, same exact parallels. Money first over innovation. Nokia and Motorola went stagnant too. Everybody hits a wall. That's life. Ups and downs. Successes and failures. Acceptance and rejections. Happy and sad. Young and old. Take the good and bad. We all go through that with our own personal lives.

Doubt Sony will ever recapture their old form either. Could Apple ever truly game change the same industry TWICE? Nah. Just keep your expectations low just like those future MCU and never seeing the final Star Wars. Forever movie franchises. Just keep yourselves entertained until the next and the next until we all drop dead.
 

Radon87000

macrumors 604
Nov 29, 2013
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Tim Cook is in so many words a failure because of a down quarter (and that's simply down from worldwide historic record highs, while still bringing in tons of money), then what is he for the worldwide historic record high from the quarter before that?
Happened because of Steve Job's creation.You could put any competent CEP in his place and get the same results as the iphone itself is the reason for thy historic quarter which was innovated by jobs

In any case I am not calling him a failure in general.He is a failure at succeeding Steve Jobs .Otherwise just your run of the mill black suit CEO
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
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Happened because of Steve Job's creation.You could put any competent CEP in his place and get the same results as the iphone itself is the reason for thy historic quarter which was innovated by jobs

In any case I am not calling him a failure in general.He is a failure at succeeding Steve Jobs .Otherwise just your run of the mill black suit CEO
So over 5 years after the previous CEO the historic worldwide earning records are still attributed to that CEO and not the one that has been there for well over 5 years, but just a few months later as soon as the earnings are lower (and that's lower from the record highs, but still quite high nonetheless) then it's suddenly all a failure and it's all attributed to the CEO that has been there for well over 5 years. That's some "logic" there.

P.S. How's it going as far as getting the punctuation and spacing working?
 

Savor

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George Lucas changed the industry forever back in 1977 with Star Wars. From 1999-2005, did anyone really believe he could do it again with the much maligned Prequels? Everyone caught to him and surpassed him. All he was thinking about was merchandising and recouping the money he put into it!

This isn't about Apple's success but their lack of innovation. The Force Awakens made over $2B, third highest-grossing ever and only sequel to make that much. But Star Wars 7 didn't change the movie industry either. Innovation and success aren't the same thing. TFA was just a 21st century reboot of A New Hope with less memorable characters.

Go to any industry, how often do you expect gamechanging events to occur? Reality is as we get older, we become cynical. We become less surprised by anything anymore. Maybe some posters are in the sub-25 club. Still kids when the first iPhone came out. You want to be excited like me back when Episode I was released. As time goes on, that anticipation as a youth goes away.

Just don't expect too much from future Star Wars, MCU, and Apple product releases. Treat them like a marriage or loyalty to your favorite sports team. Ride or die fans. I realized movies and products go through the same cycles. Excited. Bored. Innovate. Copy. Repeat. After the gamechanging event, expect cookie cutter releases. Refinements. Incremental updates. Sequels. Reboots.

Don't defend Apple's lack of innovation with their success. The next time Apple might really change the game again might be in an industry that already exist like in automobiles. How different are desktop PCs now vs 10 years ago? Or a PS3 vs PS4? Not in hardware but how we use them? To change the game TWICE in the SAME industry almost never happens.

George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, Martin Scorsese, they are all perfect examples of passing their prime. Never really capturing that early magic. And as we get older, they can never leave the same mark on us when we were younger. So don't expect iPhone 8 to be mind-blowing. Don't expect Star Wars 8 & 9 to surpass The Empire Strikes Back. Don't expect Avengers: Infinity War to be the greatest film ever.

You can go watch buy future Apple products but don't expect gamechangers. Keep your anticipation and expectations in check or you will be like me back in May 1999 as some gullible 18-year old believing The Phantom Menace would be a GREAT movie and it wasn't.
 

hiddenmarkov

macrumors 6502a
Mar 12, 2014
685
492
Japan
Hahaha that's a good one.Steve Jobs saved the company from bankruptcy and turned it into one of the most profitable company in the world.Tim Cook can't even fix a down quarter

I see far more Fitbits than Apple Watches sadly


Lower cost, has the base functions many need if into activity monitoring and supports several mobile and desktop OS'.....why are you finding fitbit sales better a shocker? Its not even Cook doing it wrong here...he is following the Gospel according to Jobs here. Apple accessories built for apple devices to keep it in the family, accept or move on was the Jobs way. People move on sometimes.

Got my wife a fitbit recently. Does everything she needs it too. I synced to it her iPhone. If we had androids the same process would have happened though. Or it can sync to regular computers with desktop software if no smart devices handy. Take away from this...1 device useful with many systems out there.

Fitbit had a nice strategy here. Its literally a device usable by most markets out there. Even the people who just don't see a need to leave flip phones (so long as they have a computer). I know some are going gasp...the horror. To each their own here all I can say really. But basically when you have one company cutoff a few markets (non apple and/or non smart device in this case) a competitor does not...said competitor can and will pick up extra sales.

Even better, smaller size for the "I don't like watches" people. Recent trip to the states wife saw my sister in law's fitbit in action. Got to talk with here. Now she has one. Its small enough size she doesn't' mind wearing it (she is in the I the watches crowd).
 
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Savor

Suspended
Jun 18, 2010
3,742
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When you love something or someone, you have to find ways to offer constructive criticism. It just can't be Apple is great! They can't do no wrong! I idolize Michael Jordan, but I know what a p*ick he can be. I admire George Lucas, but I am aware what he did to Star Wars during the last 20 years. Flaws. We all have them inside and out. Objectivity is needed.

In this world, there are the believers and nonbelievers in any facets of life. You have the lovers and haters in anything or anyone. I still believe Apple is great. I still believe they can be great again after a downfall. But I don't believe Apple is as great as they were before. The first five years of the post-Jobs era has been successful but their releases have never been exciting since Jobs was still alive.

The problem with fanatics is they WANT, WANT, WANT this or that in this ME generation. They expect the wheel to be reinvented every few years when it doesn't. It is like those haters of cheap phones. They expect flagship specs but still expect it to be inexpensive. You might as well wish manufacturers hand them out all for free. They want perfection, inexpensive, and drastic changes every year.

How can things be drastically different every few years? One is an operating system. How much more drastic do you expect in changing a UI? I don't remember comparing the PS3 interface vs Xbox 360's that much or comparing Windows XP to 7. The other is a phone with small changes inside/outside yearly. Even if some company radically changed all that, does it still change how we use them?

Just use your devices as a tool for communication or entertainment, and stop worrying about superficial UI/hardware differences. After the initial excitement wears off, we will get bored and will ask for something better again.
 
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GeekishlyGreek

macrumors regular
Apr 30, 2015
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Greece
This.

This is the difference between bloat and features.
Fully agree with that one! Most software companies have much the same issue. They start out great, then over time they need to add more selling points, so they just add stuff and add stuff willy-nilly, until it starts to eventually get too clunky, and unnecessary. Apple is one of the few companies who have never had that problem. I truly do respect that even after many years, for Apple products, everything still runs smooth on today's devices. Don't get me wrong, there will always be features we wish they would add that would be useful, but the nature of us all wanting different things means the tradeoff is that we can't have them all. But what we do have is still relevant, and just runs beautifully in ways that many other companies could only dream of. So there's something to be said about being selective and putting quality before quantity.
 
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