Phones How does Apple do this?

[jrswizzle]

Oh I know no android phone alone will fight toe to toe with the iphone, but with the phones coming out there is a lot of hope for android. I don't think Apple is going away or falling. I just think this might be the first year they have some true competition, and they better big their A game.

I guess what I am saying is the S model is enough this year, but I am not sure if that can continue to be enough.

Android doesn't need "hope".....its the most popular smartphone OS on the planet.

Apple knows more than we do both about smartphone trends (despite what we think or see) and their own plans....

Personally I think the "S" upgrade will continue to happen every year to the 4" iPhone.....I also happen to think they will introduce a larger iPhone and budget iPhone that will also receive "S" upgrades each year.

People just want to be wowed....the consumer is like a child on Christmas day....they get all googley eyed at some shiny new toy, and in 10 minutes are back playing with the box and want the next thing......catering the overall fickle consumer isn't Apple's idea of smart business practice. They'd rather keep the base who appreciates their philosophy than try to make everyone happy - because in the end, those who try and cater to EVERYONE's desires all the time flame out and fade away.

 

[onthecouchagain]

But what has Apple REALLY innovated? People always say that "Apple needs to start innovating again"....what does innovation even mean?

Apple took a concept (smartphone) and made it common. In the sense they revolutionized an industry - they innovated. So what do people expect now? Has Samsung revolutionized the industry? How so?

I think the cry for Apple to "innovate again" is based on a faulty definition of innovation. What people want is something different to keep their attention. Apple hasn't done much to "change the look/feel" of the iPhone, so people are bored and move on to something new/different. The consumer is fickle...

So if Apple were to completely change the look/feel of the iPhone and get people excited about it again, would that be innovation? Depends....but changing it for the sake of changing it wouldn't......

I don't think we will see another "iPhone" like innovation in the smartphone industry anytime soon - or maybe at all. Another industry will pop up and take over the tasks we used to use smartphones for. The only device that has come close to having an "iPhone-like" affect on the industry has been the Note series and the rise of the phablet/subsequent clamoring for larger screens - but even that is somewhat a niche in that not everyone wants a device that large.

Then again, I have a very specific and grandiose definition of "innovation" that requires changing the way EVERYONE does something - not just a few.

Yeah, I guess I should clarify I don't necessarily need Apple to create a whole new market (like they did with the iPad). If you want to argue semantics, we could argue that very few things are innovative. And I wouldn't disagree.

I guess my point is, Apple needs to start offering more choices with the iPhone. This is not changing for the sake of changing. There's benefits -- huge benefits! -- in offering more choices. Apple loves to point out how much extra screen real-estate their iPad Mini has over the competition (the Nexus 7 in particular). They're not blind to the benefit of more screen space. This is also evident in literally every other line up they have. Save for one... the iPhone. That's just hardware.

Software-wise, I don't know what "innovation" means. Maybe it would be more apt to say "changes" or "more freedom" or again... "choice." Let us decide whether we want widgets to drain our battery versus practical use. Let us decide whether we want a particular word to be saved to our dictionary or not. Etc. etc.

Empower the user.

 

[bmac4]

Android doesn't need "hope".....its the most popular smartphone OS on the planet.

Apple knows more than we do both about smartphone trends (despite what we think or see) and their own plans....

Personally I think the "S" upgrade will continue to happen every year to the 4" iPhone.....I also happen to think they will introduce a larger iPhone and budget iPhone that will also receive "S" upgrades each year.

People just want to be wowed....the consumer is like a child on Christmas day....they get all googley eyed at some shiny new toy, and in 10 minutes are back playing with the box and want the next thing......catering the overall fickle consumer isn't Apple's idea of smart business practice. They'd rather keep the base who appreciates their philosophy than try to make everyone happy - because in the end, those who try and cater to EVERYONE's desires all the time flame out and fade away.

I understand I just think these are the best android devices we have seen, and could be something great. If that is the case then we may see Apple try some new things. I don't know maybe I am wrong, but I would like to see more than just an S model. I know I know we are tech people and the rest of the world just wants a great phone that does what they need. I just think these new android phones could be game changers.

 

[jrswizzle]

Yeah, I guess I should clarify I don't necessarily need Apple to create a whole new market (like they did with the iPad). If you want to argue semantics, we could argue that very few things are innovative. And I wouldn't disagree.

I guess my point is, Apple needs to start offering more choices with the iPhone. This is not changing for the sake of changing. There's benefits -- huge benefits! -- in offering more choices. Apple loves to point out how much extra screen real-estate their iPad Mini has over the competition (the Nexus 7 in particular). They're not blind to the benefit of more screen space. This is also evident in literally every other line up they have. Save for one... the iPhone. That's just hardware.

Software-wise, I don't know what "innovation" means. Maybe it would be more apt to say "changes" or "more freedom" or again... "choice." Let us decide whether we want widgets to drain our battery versus practical use. Let us decide whether we want a particular word to be saved to our dictionary or not. Etc. etc.

Empower the user.

I agree with you on the hardware side.....I just think we shouldn't expect Apple to deviate drastically from their plan (which I believe includes both a larger and budget iPhone for release either this year or next). Especially since none of us have any clue what they are planning, and the iPad mini is proof they know and follow consumer trends (it was likely in planning/pre-production a few years ago).

Software-wise, one must understand the philosophy of Apple to truly get iOS (doesn't mean you have to like it). Widgets just go against the entire philosophy of iOS - which is in-app experience. Apple COULD change this philosophy (I doubt it), but don't expect to see widgets as they are implemented in Android on iOS......I'm confident though that Apple can give us a "quick-view" widget like experience without going against the "app-centric" nature of iOS.

I'm actually quite confident iOS 7 will be HUGE.

----------

I understand I just think these are the best android devices we have seen, and could be something great. If that is the case then we may see Apple try some new things. I don't know maybe I am wrong, but I would like to see more than just an S model. I know I know we are tech people and the rest of the world just wants a great phone that does what they need. I just think these new android phones could be game changers.

Apple will do what they will do, regardless of how amazing the competition is. Their 2013 devices have been in the planning and productions stages for years.

 

[bmac4]

I agree with you on the hardware side.....I just think we shouldn't expect Apple to deviate drastically from their plan (which I believe includes both a larger and budget iPhone for release either this year or next). Especially since none of us have any clue what they are planning, and the iPad mini is proof they know and follow consumer trends (it was likely in planning/pre-production a few years ago).

Software-wise, one must understand the philosophy of Apple to truly get iOS (doesn't mean you have to like it). Widgets just go against the entire philosophy of iOS - which is in-app experience. Apple COULD change this philosophy (I doubt it), but don't expect to see widgets as they are implemented in Android on iOS......I'm confident though that Apple can give us a "quick-view" widget like experience without going against the "app-centric" nature of iOS.

I'm actually quite confident iOS 7 will be HUGE.

----------



Apple will do what they will do, regardless of how amazing the competition is. Their 2013 devices have been in the planning and productions stages for years.

Yes no doubt about that. I think we are entering into a new stage of smart phones. You can say want you want about the phones being in planning for years, by there is no denying the fact that things have changed at Apple since Jobs left which means some of this stuff was no planned before he died. Sure there is some some planning ahead of time, but not years. I think Apple has some big planes ahead.

Don't be so sure Apple want do something like widget. It may not be their "philosophy" but look at the notification center. Something android had long before Apple. People can argue that it is different than Android, but we all know it was taken from what they did. I would not put it past Apple to do something like widgets.

 

[jrswizzle]

Yes no doubt about that. I think we are entering into a new stage of smart phones. You can say want you want about the phones being in planning for years, by there is no denying the fact that things have changed at Apple since Jobs left which means some of this stuff was no planned before he died. Sure there is some some planning ahead of time, but not years. I think Apple has some big planes ahead.

Except that the report came out saying Jobs had a hand in the next two iPhones.....

I think Apple pays more attention to trends than you might think. They just aren't on the bleeding edge....which for people like me is perfectly fine and most of the time preferable.

 

[bmac4]

Except that the report came out saying Jobs had a hand in the next two iPhones.....

I think Apple pays more attention to trends than you might think. They just aren't on the bleeding edge....which for people like me is perfectly fine and most of the time preferable.

Sure he had his hand in them. But did he not say the iPhone did not need to get any bigger? Also iOS has not changed since he died so sure we could say he had a hand it. I just think they planning is not quite as long as you think.

 

[jrswizzle]

Sure he had his hand in them. But did he not say the iPhone did not need to get any bigger? Also iOS has not changed since he died so sure we could say he had a hand it. I just think they planning is not quite as long as you think.

Didn't he also say smaller tablets were DOA?

You can argue that he talked about 7" tablets and the mini is almost 8", but the fact is, last I checked, it wasn't a crime to change one's mind....which is exactly what happened (emails even showed Jobs had come around to the idea of a smaller tablet).

Try not to get too caught up in Apple's marketing - after all, it is only marketing and while some of it MAY be true, if there's a way to make money that contradicts that marketing, they'll find a way around it to make more money.

 

[bmac4]

Didn't he also say smaller tablets were DOA?

You can argue that he talked about 7" tablets and the mini is almost 8", but the fact is, last I checked, it wasn't a crime to change one's mind....which is exactly what happened (emails even showed Jobs had come around to the idea of a smaller tablet).

Try not to get too caught up in Apple's marketing - after all, it is only marketing and while some of it MAY be true, if there's a way to make money that contradicts that marketing, they'll find a way around it to make more money.

Sure. I just think Apple has taken a little bit of a different direction than Jobs had in mind. I think planning for a new phone does take time, but things like the S4, and One have not been in planning for 2 years.

 

[taedouni]

Apple makes phones for two year upgrades. They assume that the majority or their customers purchase a phone once every 20-24 months.

 

[Tinmania]

But what has Apple REALLY innovated? People always say that "Apple needs to start innovating again"....what does innovation even mean?

I think Apple was innovative in the way they refined--no, let me say "defined"--the smartphone experience back in 2007. It was truly an amazing leap from what was out at the time. Sure there were phones that had had the same kind of features (although not usually in the same device). But the iPhone changed the game in a big way. Granted it was deliberately simplistic so it could pull that feat off, but the experience made up for it.

They did it again in 2010 with the iPhone 4--though not to the same extent. This time it was the jewel-like design (that I still marvel at) and a major iOS overhaul that put the new hardware to good use.

You might ask, what can they possibly do now? I can't answer that; no more than I could before the iPhone 4 was released. But I do know the 4 wowed me whereas the 5 most certainly did not.

So what I want to see is something akin to the iPhone 4 release--with hopes of the wow of 2007. I don't think I'll see another wow like the original iPhone. It got me addicted to the thing. But like all addicts, I want that original "high" again. One can hope.




Michael

 

[jrswizzle]

I think Apple was innovative in the way they refined--no, let me say "defined"--the smartphone experience back in 2007. It was truly an amazing leap from what was out at the time. Sure there were phones that had had the same kind of features (although not usually in the same device). But the iPhone changed the game in a big way. Granted it was deliberately simplistic so it could pull that feat off, but the experience made up for it.

They did it again in 2010 with the iPhone 4--though not to the same extent. This time it was the jewel-like design (that I still marvel at) and a major iOS overhaul that put the new hardware to good use.

You might ask, what can they possibly do now? I can't answer that; no more than I could before the iPhone 4 was released. But I do know the 4 wowed me whereas the 5 most certainly did not.

So what I want to see is something akin to the iPhone 4 release--with hopes of the wow of 2007. I don't think I'll see another wow like the original iPhone. It got me addicted to the thing. But like all addicts, I want that original "high" again. One can hope.




Michael

Ok, I mostly agree - though I think you've highlighted one of the central problems in this line of thinking.....

Apple innovated in 2007 with the original iPhone, then again in 2010 with the iPhone 4. I suppose we could assume that 2013 would bring yet another innovation - or one might think that as technology progresses, innovations become more common. But that simply isn't the case. I'd argue that as a product matures, time between innovations begins to lengthen. Expecting the iPhone 5 to bring about some new innovation, even akin to the iPhone 4 is silly - same as expecting some huge breakthrough every year is.

The smartphone industry is in a relatively mature stage. We're already reaching the point of diminishing returns with displays and apps still haven't caught up with chip speed/power of even last year.

You are right on when you say you don't know when the next innovation will happen - no one does. That's what makes it innovation. Something that takes the entire world by storm and either makes a seemingly out-of-reach/undesirable product a necessity or completely creates a brand new industry.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be wowed - not speaking specifically of you, but in general the average consumer is fickle and easily bored. Everyone is always looking for the next thing. Apple has never been the company to go down that road. They'll continue to refine their products until the next big product comes along (likely a smartwatch or iTV) and those two industries could be revolutionized, but they aren't in the "spec-wars game".

I think, hardware-wise, all TRUE innovations have been mostly exhausted (with the exception of battery life and the balance between style and durability) - iOS 7 will be the "wow" thing this year IMO. I think the software will be what renews a lot of former iOS users' fervor for the platform.

Time will tell - I understand I have much lower expectations than most. As long as the phone does what I need it to do, I'm fine. And I think most phones out there - especially the flagships - do everything I need and more.

 

[Night Spring]

So what I want to see is something akin to the iPhone 4 release--with hopes of the wow of 2007. I don't think I'll see another wow like the original iPhone. It got me addicted to the thing. But like all addicts, I want that original "high" again. One can hope.

Apple wowed you in 2007, and then again in 2010 -- so maybe we are due for another "wow" this year?

When introducing the iPhone, Steve Jobs said one is lucky if one gets to work on such a paradigm changing product once in a lifetime. I think that goes to a lesser extent to consumer experience too. And to tell you the truth, I wasn't wowed by the original Mac or the iPod -- their pervading influence on the computer and music industry became only apparent gradually. Basically, the iPhone is the only product that I saw introduced and knew from that first moment that it would be a game-changer. I wouldn't be surprised if I never saw another product that wows me as much as the original iPhone.

I just don't think products need to wow us every year. Steady incremental improvements is perfectly good, and then one day, you pick up a device from five years ago, see how limited it is, and marvel at how far we've come in five years.

 

[bmac4]

Ok, I mostly agree - though I think you've highlighted one of the central problems in this line of thinking.....

Apple innovated in 2007 with the original iPhone, then again in 2010 with the iPhone 4. I suppose we could assume that 2013 would bring yet another innovation - or one might think that as technology progresses, innovations become more common. But that simply isn't the case. I'd argue that as a product matures, time between innovations begins to lengthen. Expecting the iPhone 5 to bring about some new innovation, even akin to the iPhone 4 is silly - same as expecting some huge breakthrough every year is.

The smartphone industry is in a relatively mature stage. We're already reaching the point of diminishing returns with displays and apps still haven't caught up with chip speed/power of even last year.

You are right on when you say you don't know when the next innovation will happen - no one does. That's what makes it innovation. Something that takes the entire world by storm and either makes a seemingly out-of-reach/undesirable product a necessity or completely creates a brand new industry.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be wowed - not speaking specifically of you, but in general the average consumer is fickle and easily bored. Everyone is always looking for the next thing. Apple has never been the company to go down that road. They'll continue to refine their products until the next big product comes along (likely a smartwatch or iTV) and those two industries could be revolutionized, but they aren't in the "spec-wars game".

I think, hardware-wise, all TRUE innovations have been mostly exhausted (with the exception of battery life and the balance between style and durability) - iOS 7 will be the "wow" thing this year IMO. I think the software will be what renews a lot of former iOS users' fervor for the platform.

Time will tell - I understand I have much lower expectations than most. As long as the phone does what I need it to do, I'm fine. And I think most phones out there - especially the flagships - do everything I need and more.

I disagree why can't we be wowed again with the hardware? Sure the iPhone was something no one had seen before back in 2007, but I don't think that and the iPhone 4 have to be the last time. Sure I think the iPhone 5 is one of the best looking phones, but it was a not wowing device. I think HTC got closer to wowing people with the One than the iPhone did. I still believe we can be.

Sure smart phones have come a long ways, but with he technology we have now why cant we go even farther ?

 

[jrswizzle]

I disagree why can't we be wowed again with the hardware? Sure the iPhone was something no one had seen before back in 2007, but I don't think that and the iPhone 4 have to be the last time. Sure I think the iPhone 5 is one of the best looking phones, but it was a not wowing device. I think HTC got closer to wowing people with the One than the iPhone did. I still believe we can be.

Sure smart phones have come a long ways, but with he technology we have now why cant we go even farther ?

I'm not saying we can't go farther - though I think its debatable how much further this specific product category can go.

And I don't think we should expect to see innovation every year - people who want to be "wowed" every smartphone release are only setting themselves up for failure.

 

[Giuly]

I am a huge tech guy that loves having the latest and greatest, but even when I had my iphone 3g I saw no reason to get the 3gs.

Most of us are trapped in two-year contracts, so either you go iPhone→3GS→4S→5S, or iPhone 3G→4→5.

If you were to introduce a completely redesigned phone every year, you were to introduce a lot of previous-gen iPhones to the second-hand market, which drops the price for used units and makes less people sign up for a new contract. Not that Apple would mind people paying full retail price.

Also, I prefer Ive working on a design for two years and come out with something awesome rather minor iterations every year. Bumping the hardware to not make you feel like buying a one-year old phone is a nice gimmick, though.

 

[bmac4]

I'm not saying we can't go farther - though I think its debatable how much further this specific product category can go.

And I don't think we should expect to see innovation every year - people who want to be "wowed" every smartphone release are only setting themselves up for failure.

I don't think we should be wowed by every release, but while phones have come a long way they still have a long way they can go. Everyone was wowed with every iPhone up until the 5, so why not except something that great every couple of years? I think we are coming to a point where phone makers are going to have to change things if they want to wow people. It seems all of them kind of become comfortable.

 

[jrswizzle]

I don't think we should be wowed by every release, but while phones have come a long way they still have a long way they can go. Everyone was wowed with every iPhone up until the 5, so why not except something that great every couple of years? I think we are coming to a point where phone makers are going to have to change things if they want to wow people. It seems all of them kind of become comfortable.

Really? You were wowed by the 4S?

I only got the 4S by default because my 4 was acting up out of warranty. The iPhone 5 was the phone I was waiting for and I've been extremely pleased with it.

 

[Night Spring]

I don't think we should be wowed by every release, but while phones have come a long way they still have a long way they can go. Everyone was wowed with every iPhone up until the 5, so why not except something that great every couple of years? I think we are coming to a point where phone makers are going to have to change things if they want to wow people. It seems all of them kind of become comfortable.

We don't expect computers to wow us every year, why should we expect that of smartphones?

Smartphones, computers, toasters, cars, pen and paper -- they are all tools. Every once in a long long while, something comes out that wows us. Otherwise, we get incremental upgrades each year. That's just how the world works.

 

[bmac4]

Really? You were wowed by the 4S?

I only got the 4S by default because my 4 was acting up out of warranty. The iPhone 5 was the phone I was waiting for and I've been extremely pleased with it.

No I was talking about the iPhone design which the iPhone 4 did wow me. The iPhone 5 did not. It was just longer. I think Apple has a lot of room to room and can do it.

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We don't expect computers to wow us every year, why should we expect that of smartphones?

Smartphones, computers, toasters, cars, pen and paper -- they are all tools. Every once in a long long while, something comes out that wows us. Otherwise, we get incremental upgrades each year. That's just how the world works.

Ok

 

[blackhand1001]

Image

They don't really look all that different.

>_>;

But they are a lot different. The screen size and the proportions are completely different as is the case. The 4 and the 4s were essentially identical exterior wise. They also had the same screen.

 

[bmac4]

But they are a lot different. The screen size and the proportions are completely different as is the case. The 4 and the 4s were essentially identical exterior wise. They also had the same screen.

Yes the S4 is much different than the S3 if you compare it to the 4 and 4s. The design on the S3 and 4 are do look different it may be small, but they are different. The 4 and 4s were no different at all visually.

 

[tjl3]

But they are a lot different. The screen size and the proportions are completely different as is the case. The 4 and the 4s were essentially identical exterior wise. They also had the same screen.

The average consumer will not be able to tell the difference. Would you even be able to tell if someone were handling it? Side by side maybe, but apart people who don't follow smartphone tech won't.

 

[daveathall]

Innovation means different things to different people, some will disagree when I say that Apple innovated in a number of ways, iPod, iTunes, iPad and iPhone are all devices/processes that shook the world of technology and made competing companies think again. Trouble is, is that the last of these was some time ago, we are due something from Apple, do I know what? No, of course I don't, that is their job, mine is to be so wowed that I pay a premium amount of cash to have their device.

Are we at the summit of mobile phone technology? IMHO, no, and even if we are, then it is up to these companies to invent and produce the next device that I don't even know that I need. Wonder where Ive heard that before?

 

[bmac4]

The average consumer will not be able to tell the difference. Would you even be able to tell if someone were handling it? Side by side maybe, but apart people who don't follow smartphone tech won't.

That is no true at all. The outside looks different. The bezel is smaller. You can tell.
You are going to try to tell me people can see the difference in this?