Phones How does Apple do this?

[cynics]

Really? You want to go THERE??!?!?

The iPhone 4s had a 3.5" screen with 3G.
The iPhone 5 has a 4" screen with 4G LTE.

That alone is a bigger difference than the GS3 to the GS4.

A non tech person can't see that! I OWN a 4S and I can barely tell a difference between it and a 5 if both are wearing cases.

My 4S has near the same outside diameter in a lifeproof case as a 5 in a commuter series Otterbox. I use that example because the Otterbox is so popular and has similar dimensions as many cases out there.

I'm not going to say that's different between the S3 and S4 because with a case they will be equally hard to tell apart maybe harder.

Point is a .5" bigger screen diagonally so less vertically will be unnoticeable to someone that either isn't looking for it and/or has never used an iPhone.

It might be easy for you to see being an iPhone user I'm sure. In the same note it will be easy for an S3 owner to notice a bigger screen with a smaller bezel on an S4.

 

[bmac4]

Making the screen wider would not let it stay at 16:9, which is used by all other phones too.

And i would say those are pretty big deals. LTE is crazy fast, like 3G is to 2G, and the bigger screen helps, although personally i wanted bigger, it is too small for my taste.

The S4's biggest leap IMO is the screen. Because of pentile, the more the pixels, the better it will get. LCDs look pretty good on 640p or 720p already, 1080 is just further sharpness. For a pentile AMOLED, more pixels means the sub pixels are now effectively at 720p meaning better text clarity (big deal for me) and less artifacts.

Samsung already has had LTE long ago, and the processor improvement happens to all phones. The bigger battery is welcome too though, means standby will be much better, so will the call time, and screen times will hopefully improve.

And as i stated earlier a couple of posts above, those buttons at the bottom are finally centered, something that pissed me off quite bit on my S3.

I think Apple is more suited to bring "one huge addition" each year, be it a much better camera (4S), or amazing processor and LTE (5), or something else. This is because Samsung already put everything on their first 2-3 generations and can only add so much, while Apple is adding it one at a time and that sort of generates more excitement for next upgrade.

It is just a matter of preference for which model is better. I don't even care for the progression, i will happily switch to whichever device in current gen is better for me, as i also tend to mostly use cross platform services to lessen the hurt from switching around. I am a big believer in hardware makers being just makers and allowing cross platform services from third party developers (or the maker itself), because i hate being locked in.

But so far the thread just seems to be the age old Samsung Vs. Apple battle again with both sides trying to validate their hero.

I like both I own both. I am not sure where it went off track. My intentions for the thread were to discuss why Apple makes S models and not redesigns each year. I guess when I said android has a lot to offer this year it ran from there.

I would prefer not to argue which is better because it gets nothing accomplished. No one will ever again on this. I say they are both good, and I just hope Apple gives us more in the coming year.

 

[Night Spring]

I like both I own both. I am not sure where it went off track. My intentions for the thread were to discuss why Apple makes S models and not redesigns each year.

Right. Well, has anyone mentioned that there is only one Jonny Ive? And he designs all Apple products, not just the iPhone. I think the limits on Ive's time is one factor why Apple doesn't do redesigns as often as other companies.

 

[bmac4]

Right. Well, has anyone mentioned that there is only one Jonny Ive? And he designs all Apple products, not just the iPhone. I think the limits on Ive's time is one factor why Apple doesn't do redesigns as often as other companies.

Oh I did not know that.

 

[Irishman]

A non tech person can't see that! I OWN a 4S and I can barely tell a difference between it and a 5 if both are wearing cases.

My 4S has near the same outside diameter in a lifeproof case as a 5 in a commuter series Otterbox. I use that example because the Otterbox is so popular and has similar dimensions as many cases out there.

I'm not going to say that's different between the S3 and S4 because with a case they will be equally hard to tell apart maybe harder.

Point is a .5" bigger screen diagonally so less vertically will be unnoticeable to someone that either isn't looking for it and/or has never used an iPhone.

It might be easy for you to see being an iPhone user I'm sure. In the same note it will be easy for an S3 owner to notice a bigger screen with a smaller bezel on an S4.

We weren't talking about physical/visible changes to the respective phones (at least that wasn't the part I was replying to). We were talking about the respective differences between the iPhone 4S -> iPhone 5 iteration versus the GS3-> GS4 iteration.

Sorry for the confusion.

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I like both I own both. I am not sure where it went off track. My intentions for the thread were to discuss why Apple makes S models and not redesigns each year. I guess when I said android has a lot to offer this year it ran from there.

I would prefer not to argue which is better because it gets nothing accomplished. No one will ever again on this. I say they are both good, and I just hope Apple gives us more in the coming year.

I still don't why this difference still surprises anyone halfway familiar with the handset market.

Apple - 1 company making one phone.
Android - Lots of companies making lots of phones.

If you want to suggest that Apple needs to make more phones to compete with a particular handset maker (Samsung, LG, HTC, Oppo, etc), that's cool. But just saying Android is offering alot, Apple's not is kind of a non-starter, and makes it sound like you don't know what you are talking about (which I don't believe, by the way).

 

[bmac4]

We weren't talking about physical/visible changes to the respective phones (at least that wasn't the part I was replying to). We were talking about the respective differences between the iPhone 4S -> iPhone 5 iteration versus the GS3-> GS4 iteration.

Sorry for the confusion.

----------



I still don't why this difference still surprises anyone halfway familiar with the handset market.

Apple - 1 company making one phone.
Android - Lots of companies making lots of phones.

If you want to suggest that Apple needs to make more phones to compete with a particular handset maker (Samsung, LG, HTC, Oppo, etc), that's cool. But just saying Android is offering alot, Apple's not is kind of a non-starter, and makes it sound like you don't know what you are talking about (which I don't believe, by the way).

When I say I want Apple to give us more I am not talking about more phones am talking about more additions to ios. I know Apple want make any more phones. I just would like some more than just an S model each year. It want happen either, but maybe iOS 7 is something to write home about.

 

[Irishman]

When I say I want Apple to give us more I am not talking about more phones am talking about more additions to ios. I know Apple want make any more phones. I just would like some more than just an S model each year. It want happen either, but maybe iOS 7 is something to write home about.

Is it possible that the perception that Apple is falling behind in OS innovation a symptom of just how many competitors there are out there doing their own thing? When compared to what Samsung is doing with Touchwiz, you can get a handle on how this might compare/contrast with iOS. The same goes with vanilla Android, with HTC's SenseUI, LG's UI 3.0, etc.

When you compare just one of those to iOS, there isn't the dramatic difference that appears when you lump them all together.

Why not just look at Samsung, the Android market leader? I think there's a lot more to be learned about how companies research, design and market by analyzing it this way.

 

[bmac4]

Is it possible that the perception that Apple is falling behind in OS innovation a symptom of just how many competitors there are out there doing their own thing? When compared to what Samsung is doing with Touchwiz, you can get a handle on how this might compare/contrast with iOS. The same goes with vanilla Android, with HTC's SenseUI, LG's UI 3.0, etc.

When you compare just one of those to iOS, there isn't the dramatic difference that appears when you lump them all together.

Why not just look at Samsung, the Android market leader? I think there's a lot more to be learned about how companies research, design and market by analyzing it this way.

I never said I thought Apple was falling. I think they are just fine. But like I stated with this thread I would like to see more than just S models each year. It works the way they are doing it right now, so of course it sounds crazy for me to say that, but I think they could do more.

 

[Irishman]

I never said I thought Apple was falling. I think they are just fine. But like I stated with this thread I would like to see more than just S models each year. It works the way they are doing it right now, so of course it sounds crazy for me to say that, but I think they could do more.

Why do you want to see "more than just S models"? What precisely do you want to see each year?

 

[bmac4]

Why do you want to see "more than just S models"? What precisely do you want to see each year?

I would like to see a new phone design. Why not other companies do it. Each nexus device is a new one each year. Each Samsung galaxy S model is different. Why cant the iPhone be different?

 

[Irishman]

I would like to see a new phone design. Why not other companies do it. Each nexus device is a new one each year. Each Samsung galaxy S model is different. Why cant the iPhone be different?

Given how much criticism the GS4 has gotten for being "meh" in the hardware redesign department, I can easily see why Apple might want to avoid that by not rushing a phone to market. I don't care so much when it ships, just that it's ready when it does.

This year is a weird time for me phone-wise, because it's the first time in years that I'm really ready for an upgrade by my own criteria, in that my current phone (the HP Blackberry rip-off the iPaq) is dying, AND new phones on my carrier of choice (AT&T) are actually offering competitive experiences.

While I'm inclined to go for an iPhone 5 (when the S comes out) to get LTE and HD Voice, I'm of mixed mind about the screen. I can see the advantage of a 16:9 AR for watching full-screen HD video/film and having the apparent size of that video be larger than on the 3.5" 4S screen. We don't know yet if Apple will cave to pressure and increase the screen size again THIS year or wait till next year, nor do we know if they will keep 16:9. I hope they keep it, because as an ardent videophile, I appreciate it anytime an image can be displayed with as little jacking with the AR. I DO also love the viewing angle of the IPS displays. It's quite tasty.

I can probably get my hands on a high-end Android or Windows Phone 8 handset for next to nothing, but the main thing that keeps me from more seriously considering it is how well-integrated my iPod Touch and my wife's iPad 4 is with the AppleTV 2. Airplay is very cool, and with the iMac I got for XMas this past year, I can sit back on the couch with the bluetooth keyboard and mouse on the coffee table, turn on Airplay Mirroring on the iMac, and basically do everything on the big screen that I would normally huddle around the Mac to do.

I want that same integration on my next phone, I think. And multiple ATVs in different rooms can not only make them smart TVs, but it can also make it an ad hoc whole room entertainment system.

 

[wovel]

Apple doesn't expect you to upgrade every year...

 

[bmac4]

Given how much criticism the GS4 has gotten for being "meh" in the hardware redesign department, I can easily see why Apple might want to avoid that by not rushing a phone to market. I don't care so much when it ships, just that it's ready when it does.

This year is a weird time for me phone-wise, because it's the first time in years that I'm really ready for an upgrade by my own criteria, in that my current phone (the HP Blackberry rip-off the iPaq) is dying, AND new phones on my carrier of choice (AT&T) are actually offering competitive experiences.

While I'm inclined to go for an iPhone 5 (when the S comes out) to get LTE and HD Voice, I'm of mixed mind about the screen. I can see the advantage of a 16:9 AR for watching full-screen HD video/film and having the apparent size of that video be larger than on the 3.5" 4S screen. We don't know yet if Apple will cave to pressure and increase the screen size again THIS year or wait till next year, nor do we know if they will keep 16:9. I hope they keep it, because as an ardent videophile, I appreciate it anytime an image can be displayed with as little jacking with the AR. I DO also love the viewing angle of the IPS displays. It's quite tasty.

I can probably get my hands on a high-end Android or Windows Phone 8 handset for next to nothing, but the main thing that keeps me from more seriously considering it is how well-integrated my iPod Touch and my wife's iPad 4 is with the AppleTV 2. Airplay is very cool, and with the iMac I got for XMas this past year, I can sit back on the couch with the bluetooth keyboard and mouse on the coffee table, turn on Airplay Mirroring on the iMac, and basically do everything on the big screen that I would normally huddle around the Mac to do.

I want that same integration on my next phone, I think. And multiple ATVs in different rooms can not only make them smart TVs, but it can also make it an ad hoc whole room entertainment system.

I don't think the Samsung's and HTC and nexus devices are rushed. I think they are just what the companies want them to be. Apple plays it safe and it works, but I want them to go out and do something no one sees coming. We will get the 5s this year, and maybe something a bit bigger next. My only hope is that this new guy they have working on iOS 7 is going to do something big. I can only hope.

 

[Night Spring]

I don't think the Samsung's and HTC and nexus devices are rushed. I think they are just what the companies want them to be. Apple plays it safe and it works, but I want them to go out and do something no one sees coming. We will get the 5s this year, and maybe something a bit bigger next. My only hope is that this new guy they have working on iOS 7 is going to do something big. I can only hope.

Which new guy are you thinking of, Craig Federighi (software) or Jonny Ive (UI)?

I've learned over the years that the best thing is to keep my expectations low, that way I'm not disappointed. I think it's easy to get the impression that Apple pops up with something no one saw coming every few years, but the only product that they ever did that I didn't see coming was the iPhone. The iPod was just another MP3 player when it was first introduced. People saw the iPad coming from miles away, the only surprise was the price. Oh, and the first iPod Nano, that was what got me on the Apple bandwagon. But while that was a surprise to me, I don't know how much of a surprise it was to people who had been following Apple beforehand.

The thing about Apple is that, like you said, they play it safe. They aren't going to give you those enticing new features Android has. But the features they give you are going to work well. Your wishing Apple would be something they aren't isn't going to make it so. You can keep wasting your energy wishing for something that isn't going to happen, or you can move on.

 

[Irishman]

Which new guy are you thinking of, Craig Federighi (software) or Jonny Ive (UI)?

I've learned over the years that the best thing is to keep my expectations low, that way I'm not disappointed. I think it's easy to get the impression that Apple pops up with something no one saw coming every few years, but the only product that they ever did that I didn't see coming was the iPhone. The iPod was just another MP3 player when it was first introduced. People saw the iPad coming from miles away, the only surprise was the price. Oh, and the first iPod Nano, that was what got me on the Apple bandwagon. But while that was a surprise to me, I don't know how much of a surprise it was to people who had been following Apple beforehand.

The thing about Apple is that, like you said, they play it safe. They aren't going to give you those enticing new features Android has. But the features they give you are going to work well. Your wishing Apple would be something they aren't isn't going to make it so. You can keep wasting your energy wishing for something that isn't going to happen, or you can move on.

Jonny Ive is not UI. He's hardware design.

 

[Night Spring]

Jonny Ive is not UI. He's hardware design.

Tim Cook reorganized things and put Ive in charge of UI as well as hardware design.

 

[Irishman]

Tim Cook reorganized things and put Ive in charge of UI as well as hardware design.

Got a link where a skeptic can read it?

 

[jrswizzle]

Got a link where a skeptic can read it?

Google "jonny ive ios design" - take your pick of any of the first 30+ articles

After the shakeup and Forstall's leaving, Ive was put in charge of the UI design while Federighi took over the software side. There are likely a few threads here on it as well.

 

[Kashsystems]

Got a link where a skeptic can read it?

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/10/29Apple-Announces-Changes-to-Increase-Collaboration-Across-Hardware-Software-Services.html

https://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/04/former-apple-employee-loren-brichter-is-excited-about-jony-ives-promotion/

 

[bmac4]

Which new guy are you thinking of, Craig Federighi (software) or Jonny Ive (UI)?

I've learned over the years that the best thing is to keep my expectations low, that way I'm not disappointed. I think it's easy to get the impression that Apple pops up with something no one saw coming every few years, but the only product that they ever did that I didn't see coming was the iPhone. The iPod was just another MP3 player when it was first introduced. People saw the iPad coming from miles away, the only surprise was the price. Oh, and the first iPod Nano, that was what got me on the Apple bandwagon. But while that was a surprise to me, I don't know how much of a surprise it was to people who had been following Apple beforehand.

The thing about Apple is that, like you said, they play it safe. They aren't going to give you those enticing new features Android has. But the features they give you are going to work well. Your wishing Apple would be something they aren't isn't going to make it so. You can keep wasting your energy wishing for something that isn't going to happen, or you can move on.

I believe I was thinking of John Ivy. He is the one working on iOS right? That is the one I was talking about. It sounds like he wants to change some things. I just want something fresh with iOS. I know me wanting them to change helps nothing, but we can all hope that they can do some different things.

Yea I thought the iPhone was something no one saw coming from Apple. It looked good and like nothing anyone had seen before. It also had everyone saying the whole phone being touchscreen would never work. I just would like something close to that, but this time with the software. Maybe the Ivy guy can make some changes for the best. We have already heard that they brought people over from OSX to help with iOS 7. Makes me think things are changing a bit.

I understand the design of the the iPhone is not going to change that much, and I don't think it has to. I mean look at the first iPhone and now the iPhone 5. Other than it being longer not much in the way of shape has the iPhone changed over the years. The one big thing is it is not rounded on the edges which stopped after the iPhone 3gs. Like I said they play it safe, and that goes for design too.

----------

Google "jonny ive ios design" - take your pick of any of the first 30+ articles

After the shakeup and Forstall's leaving, Ive was put in charge of the UI design while Federighi took over the software side. There are likely a few threads here on it as well.

Oh so are both of them working on iOS 7? I thought it was just the Ivy guy.

 

[jrswizzle]

Oh so are both of them working on iOS 7? I thought it was just the Ivy guy.

Yes - Ive is a design guy, he wouldn't know the first thing about software.

Given Ive's status at Apple though, I imagine the exchange goes something like:

Ive: "I want iOS 7 to look like and do this. Make it happen."

Federighi: *sheepishly* "Ok."

 

[bmac4]

Yes - Ive is a design guy, he wouldn't know the first thing about software.

Given Ive's status at Apple though, I imagine the exchange goes something like:

Ive: "I want iOS 7 to look like and do this. Make it happen."

Federighi: *sheepishly* "Ok."

Oh ok.

 

[tjl3]

I understand the design of the the iPhone is not going to change that much, and I don't think it has to. I mean look at the first iPhone and now the iPhone 5. Other than it being longer not much in the way of shape has the iPhone changed over the years. The one big thing is it is not rounded on the edges which stopped after the iPhone 3gs. Like I said they play it safe, and that goes for design too.

They're not playing it safe, the iPhone design is more or less an iconic design. People know it, recognize it, and love it.

The one thing I've said about the S4 looking like the S3 is that some may consider it an S upgrade, but you can also look at it as Samsung making a statement with their own iconic design starting with the S3. As such, you'd see them just refine their design instead of a massive aesthetic overhaul.

Yes - Ive is a design guy, he wouldn't know the first thing about software.

Given Ive's status at Apple though, I imagine the exchange goes something like:

Ive: "I want iOS 7 to look like and do this. Make it happen."

Federighi: *sheepishly* "Ok."

Ive doesn't have to know anything about software, altho I wouldn't be surprised if he could hold his own at Apple. Both him and Federighi are execs, they're not there to do the grunt work. And Ive is a master at design, he'll just dictate the look and function of iOS.

 

[jrswizzle]

They're not playing it safe, the iPhone design is more or less an iconic design. People know it, recognize it, and love it.

The one thing I've said about the S4 looking like the S3 is that some may consider it an S upgrade, but you can also look at it as Samsung making a statement with their own iconic design starting with the S3. As such, you'd see them just refine their design instead of a massive aesthetic overhaul.

Well said!

Ive doesn't have to know anything about software, altho I wouldn't be surprised if he could hold his own at Apple. Both him and Federighi are execs, they're not there to do the grunt work. And Ive is a master at design, he'll just dictate the look and function of iOS.

Agreed - more of a joke post than anything. I'd be willing to bet Ive knows infinitely more about software than I - just from things he's picked up at Apple.

You said what i meant more elegantly and without the sarcastic joke.

 

[bmac4]

They're not playing it safe, the iPhone design is more or less an iconic design. People know it, recognize it, and love it.

The one thing I've said about the S4 looking like the S3 is that some may consider it an S upgrade, but you can also look at it as Samsung making a statement with their own iconic design starting with the S3. As such, you'd see them just refine their design instead of a massive aesthetic overhaul.



Ive doesn't have to know anything about software, altho I wouldn't be surprised if he could hold his own at Apple. Both him and Federighi are execs, they're not there to do the grunt work. And Ive is a master at design, he'll just dictate the look and function of iOS.

Sure its iconic I agree with that. What I am saying is that they have not really added to that design because people like the way it is. They don't know anything different. Also when I was saying Apple plays it safe I was talking about software iOS. I think they could do more they really have not done anything to really change it. Again it works so maybe they don't have to, but I just think they could do more.