When talking bout how many OS versions older Macs received, remember that up until Lion, OSX was updated every two years.
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How long before Mac OS is Apple Silicon only?
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I think we need to remind people that Next Step (Darwin Unix) that preceded MacOS X and every version of MacOS since has always been tested in labs running on multiple CPU platforms. While Apple will phase out consumer computers running intel eventually, the Mac Pro line might continue to use intel for the foreseeable future for businesses. Business migration is a slow process, usually you are spending a lot on a Mac Pro so businesses expect to utilize them at least 4 years along with the software licensing involved.
I think this topic needs to be divided between consumer and business as they are both quite different marketplace. If anything Apple needs a really breathtaking AS workstation to grab marketshare. Right now it's still unannounced.
I think some historical context is in order. OWC has a "Mac Compatibility Guide" that gives MacOS support by product and model year:
eshop.macsales.com
Using that, I created a table that shows the last OS to support each model, by model year, starting with 2009 (see first screenshot). "N/A" means the model wasn't listed for that year; "TBD" means the model is still supported.
From that I created a table that lists the EOL support year for each (using the EOL year for each OS).
And finally, from that, I created a table that lists the years of support for each (from release year to OS EOL). In this last table I highlighted, in yellow, the models culled with Ventura. Even though many have described the Ventura culling as especially agressive, the numbers say otherwise: The average years of support of those culled with Ventura is 9, which is the same as the overall average years of support of all models in this table.
The reason you never see Sierra as the last OS is that all Macs supported on Sierra were also supported on High Sierra. Thus support for a model never ended with Sierra.
If you see any errors, feel free to let me know!
N.B.: This shows that Intel support is not currently being cut off more rapidly with Ventura than with older OS's. However, if we look specifically at the PPC-> Intel transition, the last PPC was discontinued in Oct 2005, and the last OS to support them, 10.5, went EOL in June 2011. That's 68 months ~ nearly six years. So it's possible that a more agressive culling will be seen later. But since Apple said they will support Intel "for many years to come", upon further consideration, I think they'll go to about 7 years after the last Intel machine is sold. But this is pure gueswork—I wouldn't be money on it.
Mac OS Compatibility Guide by Mac Model
Easily check which versions of mac OS, iOS, iPadOS, or watchOS are compatible with your Mac model or iDevice.
Using that, I created a table that shows the last OS to support each model, by model year, starting with 2009 (see first screenshot). "N/A" means the model wasn't listed for that year; "TBD" means the model is still supported.
From that I created a table that lists the EOL support year for each (using the EOL year for each OS).
And finally, from that, I created a table that lists the years of support for each (from release year to OS EOL). In this last table I highlighted, in yellow, the models culled with Ventura. Even though many have described the Ventura culling as especially agressive, the numbers say otherwise: The average years of support of those culled with Ventura is 9, which is the same as the overall average years of support of all models in this table.
The reason you never see Sierra as the last OS is that all Macs supported on Sierra were also supported on High Sierra. Thus support for a model never ended with Sierra.
If you see any errors, feel free to let me know!
N.B.: This shows that Intel support is not currently being cut off more rapidly with Ventura than with older OS's. However, if we look specifically at the PPC-> Intel transition, the last PPC was discontinued in Oct 2005, and the last OS to support them, 10.5, went EOL in June 2011. That's 68 months ~ nearly six years. So it's possible that a more agressive culling will be seen later. But since Apple said they will support Intel "for many years to come", upon further consideration, I think they'll go to about 7 years after the last Intel machine is sold. But this is pure gueswork—I wouldn't be money on it.
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I think some historical context is in order. OWC has a "Mac Compatibility Guide" that gives MacOS support by product and model year:
Mac OS Compatibility Guide by Mac Model
Easily check which versions of mac OS, iOS, iPadOS, or watchOS are compatible with your Mac model or iDevice.
Using that, I created a table that shows the last OS to support each model, by model year, starting with 2009 (see first screenshot). "N/A" means the model wasn't listed for that year; "TBD" means the model is still supported.
From that I created a table that lists the EOL support year for each (using the EOL year for each OS).
And finally, from that, I created a table that lists the years of support for each (from release year to OS EOL). In this last table I highlighted, in yellow, the models culled with Ventura. Even though many have described the Ventura culling as especially agressive, the numbers say otherwise: The average years of support of those culled with Ventura is 10, which is the same as the overall average years of support of all models in this table.
There were one or two cases in which the model year was split between OS's (the one released late that year was supported by a later OS than the one released early that year). In those instances I used the later OS (which does favor Apple's support numbers in those cases).
If you see any errors, feel free to let me know!
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It's not years of support that's the concern. It's how many new versions of macOS. For example, a 2011 Mac mini didn't get 10 versions of macOS. The last version of macOS that was officially compatible with it was High Sierra and that was released in 2017. So that's 6 versions, not 10.
Nope, it's the other way around. What's important is how many years of support you get. If you bought a Mac Mini in 2011, you could use it with full OS support until HS went EOL in 2020, which meant your usable life (with full OS support) was 9 years. And since many important apps (e.g., Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightroom, Lightroom Classic, TurboTax, Matlab, etc.) discontinue updates when the OS is EOL, that also determines when your support for current versions of those runs out.
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They will get rid of Rosetta as they got rid of 32-bit with Mojave, I imagine.
The last of the great MacOS releases are upon us, Enjoy them throughly... In my opinion I am not sad about this. Mojave/Catalina are very mature Operating Systems and will last many a years, the newer releases on Intel will also last many years. They have to.
Probably.
Rosetta 1 was licensed, and probably had a three OS agreement (Tiger, Leopard, Snow Leopard). I believe Rosetta 2 was developed internally.
But at the rate that developers are moving apps from Intel to Apple Silicon, we'll probably see Apple drop all Intel support by 2025.
I think personally that next years macOS will be Apple silicon only.
crap. once they hit 3nm chips which is next year it will be hard to shrink a chip further.
Look how HOT these 5nm chips get without proper cooling.
Just think how HOT the 3nm chips will get.
crap. once they hit 3nm chips which is next year it will be hard to shrink a chip further.
Look how HOT these 5nm chips get without proper cooling.
Just think how HOT the 3nm chips will get.
I don't think Apple care that much about enterprise market. Apple doesn't even have a clear roadmap on software support on any of their stuff nor long term service versions of their software. Those things are important for enterprise, as you said, for their budgeting, utilization, and support. Apple just drop support willy nilly when they like it. Ask people buying power Mac, Xserve, etc.
Release after Ventura is way too soon to stop supporting Intel Macs with MacOS. Apple is still selling the Mac Pro which is Intel based so the soonest it will stop supporting Intel Macs is at least 2027.
Support might be what's important to you, but I want new versions of macOS.
I still have a Commodore VIC-20 in my closet that works, but I'm not going to use it as my daily driver.
Apple can "support" Intel Macs until 2030, but I don't think they will be release new versions of macOS for them after 2024.
In that case you're in the minority, and completely out of sync with this thread. The OP asked about years of support. And nearly every other poster has expressed concern/curiosity about support. Don't believe me? Use the search function for this thread, with "support" as the search term.
Thus your critique of my post, in which you said the following, is simply incorrect (it's incorrect because it portrayed the number of new OS's as the general concern):
"It's not years of support that's the concern. It's how many new versions of macOS."
There's nothing wrong with being different from everyone else. But don't tell others they've got it wrong, as you did with me, just because they don't conform to your unique view. You would have been more correct if you instead wrote something like this:
"I realize everyone else on this thread is concerned with when support runs out. However, I personally am concerned with how many new versions of Intel-compatible MacOS we'll be getting....
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PPC was abandoned by Apple pretty quickly I thought when it came to OS updates but a lot of that was because of how well Intel Macs were selling in comparison. It seems that Apple silicon is selling faster than Intel was but at the same time I can see them continuing to support it a lot longer this time around.
I'd be willing to bet that the last Intel-compatible OS is in 2026, but it will be limited to the high-end MBP, as well as iMac Pro and Mac Pro.
I'd be willing to bet that the last Intel-compatible OS is in 2026, but it will be limited to the high-end MBP, as well as iMac Pro and Mac Pro.
It's not too soon if Apple completed the transition by the end of this year. Besides, the last supported Intel Macs running Ventura still have about 2 years of support of security updates.
This is Apple we're talking about, not Microsoft. Apple has no problem dropping support of things willy nilly. I mean what are you going to do, switch to Windows? Maybe, but most people will simply buy newer Apple Silicon Macs.
It sux, sure, but if you are an old Apple user, this behavior is not new.
Apple does sometimes drop support for connectors before PC's. But when it comes to years of OS support, Apple's is typically comparable to that for higher-end PC's.
I looked into this once before, but just to check again, I looked at the Dell XPS 15, which is a premium PC laptop. The oldest XPS 15 that can run the current version of Windows 10 is the 9550, which was released in 2015. Since Windows 10 is EOL in 2025*, and the 9550 can't run Windows 11, it should have 10 years of OS support. The last XPS 15 that can run Windows 10 but not 11 is the 9560, which was released in 2017. So it has 8 years of support. Thus, looking at the XPS 15, we have a range of 8 - 10 years.
Of course, AS creates a different situation, since we're changing to a different macroarchitecture. But if you compare apples-to-apples, i.e., support on the same macroarchitecture, you'll see Apple's OS support length is comparable to that for PC's
*Volume customers may have access to ESU's (Extended Security Updates), but I don't know how this will work with Windows 10.
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I think the next two major macOS releases (14 and 15) will have some level of Intel support. I suspect that macOS 16 will drop x86 completely.
Look at Windows 10 minimum requirements, and how far back of PCs it can support. And for enterprise, Windows 10 LTSC is supported until 2029. And Microsoft posted clear timeline about their software lifecycle. Apple doesn't. When you buy an Apple device now, you will have no idea how long it will be supported. You can only guess.
Yeah, nice try. Now you're just playing games. How about reading the OP, so you can understand what the title means?
In your quote, you see the OP is only concerned with macOS and there won't be many more versions of macOS coming for Intel Macs.
The last Intel Mac still being sold is the Mac Pro. That was released in 2019. By 2024, it would've had 5 years of macOS support. That's where I think it will end.
Your charts are still completely meaningless and useless in this discussion about Intel versions of macOS. The OP doesn't even mention any Macs. He/she obviously doesn't care about how long his/her Mac will be "supported". He/she only wants to know how many more versions of macOS will be compatible with Intel systems.
I'm no PC expert, but that's not what I'm seeing. Consider, for instance, the Dell Inspiron 7000 Series laptops. Since Windows 10 was released in 2015, I would assume all of these came with Windows 10, right?:
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Inspiron_laptop_computers
And yet if you go to Dell's website, and you look at the Inspiron laptops that run the current build of Windows 10 (21H2, released Nov. 2021), you'll see only the 7391 is still supported. Support for the earlier ones has been dropped. That means if you bought, say, a 7386 in 2019, your support would not last 10 years and, additionally, you would have no way of knowing when that support would drop.
In fact, according to Dell, the last Windows build on which it was supported was the May 2021 Update (21H1), which is EOL in Dec 2022. That means it has only 3 or 4 years of support after purchase.
It seems the key here is that, to determine years of support for PC's, you can't just look at MS's policies for Windows—it's about Windows and the PC manufacturers together.
source: https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/...ious-versions-of-windows-10#Inspiron-NB-21H2U
The other point I'll make is this: Given that Apple's years of OS support since 2019 has averaged 9 ± 1 years, I think it's inaccurate to characterize it as "dropping support of things willy nilly."
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There's so little logic to this that it's become pointless to attempt to respond further. As Pauli would say, it's "not even wrong".
Anyone who thinks Apple will continue to release Intel versions of macOS for another decade is delusional.