How many people really need M1 Pro or M1 Max

[terminator-jq]

True, but in a GPU render situation that doesn't require much system memory, it's still like at least 48GB? Pro 32-48 GB cards are crazy expensive. Consumer GPU's top out at 16-24 GB. Very expensive nVidia cards are 11-24 GB. I'm not saying GPU memory is everything but once you are RAM limited thing suck very fast.

GPU memory is quickly becoming very important for 3D artist which is why the M1 Max with unified memory is very exciting.

Photogrametry and ultra high resolution textures are beginning to be normalized. Particularly for Arch Viz. Even the 32gb RAM model will be a HUGE bonus for 3D artist both in rendering and even in the viewport. Again, we are just at the beginning of this AS transition. Even just 6 months from now, we could see a lot more software support.

 

[Sullivan0930]

Love your signature. Did you hear the Faces re-release and bonus song? My vinyl just came in yesterday.

Oh yeah, yeah Is amazing. Just makes me hopeful that the vault is stacked with a lot of finished songs that will be released. Macs family is great with keeping his legacy alive and well.

 

[Puonti]

Yea, I get it... It's just that every single word in these prerecorded keynotes has made it through dozens of screenings and edits and is used with absolute particularity. So I believe that the fact that they used "coming back" for one feature and "adding" for others, when all of those features existed previously and all were taken away during the same generational update for ostensibly the same reasons; is a little disingenuous.

I agree that Apple's presentations are keenly honed; I expect them to think very carefully about everything they say and how they say it. My perception of their marketing ethos is always project forward momentum, even when taking a step back.

The fact is, just like their competitors they don't always get things right (butterfly keyboard, trashcan Mac Pro, etc); the markets they're in keep changing both as a result of and despite their input; they want to maintain a certain identity both for the company and their products; and they will occasionally want to change their trajectory as their own priorities evolve. But, as I said, you don't advertise in negatives.

That means a portion of their customerbase will notice when they address missteps, changes in the market, or adjustments to their plans. The problem is, we the audience don't always know which of those things Apple is in their own view addressing, or if they're simply adhering to the identity they want to maintain.

For instance: the MagSafe connector coming back. I saw some early takes on these forums claiming "see, they're admitting removing MagSafe was a mistake!" Then as more information trickled in we found out that standard USB-C simply wouldn't currently support fast charging at 140 watts on the 16" MBP. Apple had to provide a distinct connector for technical and usability reasons (a port that looks like USB-C, but isn't, is a bad move). Why not lean on the established MagSafe brand then?

..and once you have to have MagSafe on one of the MBPs you should put it on both even if it's not strictly speaking necessary, because it A) maintains a coherent design across a product generation, B) is good for interoperability when you can expect both products to exist in the same environment and C) makes communication about the products easier.

Would they have stuck with USB-C if it hadn't been a bottleneck? My guess is yes. You can still charge both through USB-C anyway, just not fast with the 16".

On a kind of related note, there's the notch. A lot of knee-jerk reactions to what a terrible design choice it is. Too wide! Could be shorter if it's just a camera (it's not)! What hasn't in my experience been given a lot of attention is the fact that the bottom bezel of the screen no longer says "MacBook Pro".

Because it doesn't need to.

I'm not saying the notch was added so that Apple could clean up the bezel. I'm just saying - as with the return of MagSafe - there's a lot of varied thought going into the choices Apple makes. Identity is one of them, and with Apple it's not an afterthought.

Personally I find all of this really fascinating.

 

[Ixon2001]

Well I don't need one even my M1 MBP 8/512 is overkill for what use it for, don't do any major photo or video editing on it just basic stuff that both iMovie & Pixelmator Pro cover my needs easily.

When it comes to upgrading I probably go with the M3 or M4 Macbook Air in 2 to 3 of years time, depending on how well 8GB still holds up by then, I'm guessing by then 16GB will be base with 32GB as an option.

 

[Monahister777]

First let me say I’ve been in IT/Telcom over 35 years. The processors Apple announced today are truly amazing. BUT… BUT… lets face it. How many people really need that much power in a laptop? Im an IT Pro and my Itel 2020 MacBook Pro and M1 Macbook air are sufficient. Really, think about it, what, aside from creative pros who needs that much power. Im disappointed a 14” MacBook Pro (M1) for the masses was not introduced today. Awesome technology for a very small percentage of users.

This was a Pro event. Pro users were complaining for years that they don’t get fast enough laptops, the keyboard was **** or it was getting hot etc. for years all the Pros were saying that were feeling abandoned! Now finally they got a laptop that is doing all they want, and you call that "disappointing" for the rest of us that don't need all this power. Don't spoil their joy/moment - for all the rest we have an MBA M1 and MBP 13'' M1 (for a while at least), which are way more powerful than the masses would ever need, with good price

 

[5425642]

I haven't owned a computer in over 10 years. I have two firm owned machines (one mac & one pc) in my home office. I decided I wanted to get back to having my own machine as now remote computing is available for work tasks, and I don't like the idea of doing personal things (like posting here) on a work owned machine.

I could probably have gotten away with an M1 Macbook air, but wanted more ram... and why not get the cutting edge performance as this mac will likely need to last me for 6-8 years at least. Went for an M1 Max 10/32 with 32gb ram and 1TB drive. Lowkey regretting not opting for 64gb ram, but I decided to cheap out a bit there. As for the drive, with everything in the cloud now, I have less need for on-device storage. On my work mac I'm only up to 305gb used out of the 512 drive.

Bottom line... I probably don't "need" the M1 Pro or M1 Max, but I WANT it. Let a man have his vices!

If your remote computing as your saying why the "heck" are you going with the 32GB of RAM?
I'll go with 16GB of RAM and I'm a developer. 16GB are fine as my test and VM's are in DataCenters.
And to bee honest, I only using my MacBooks for 2-3 years when the AppleCare+ are expiring then I'll grab a new one.

This is the first year I'll replace my MacBook Pro M1 after just one year, why? Well the M1 was just a try at the beginning it only has 256GB of SSD and 16GB of RAM and It has proven it self very good the thing that I'm lacking out of sometime is the CPU when I'm compiling so that's why I'll go with the M1 pro 10 Cores 16GB and 512GB SSD

 

[lordhamster]

If your remote computing as your saying why the "heck" are you going with the 32GB of RAM?
I'll go with 16GB of RAM and I'm a developer. 16GB are fine as my test and VM's are in DataCenters.
And to bee honest, I only using my MacBooks for 2-3 years when the AppleCare+ are expiring then I'll grab a new one.

This is the first year I'll replace my MacBook Pro M1 after just one year, why? Well the M1 was just a try at the beginning it only has 256GB of SSD and 16GB of RAM and It has proven it self very good the thing that I'm lacking out of sometime is the CPU when I'm compiling so that's why I'll go with the M1 pro 10 Cores 16GB and 512GB SSD

My work now provides a nerfed remote computing platform that had basically email, teams, and office apps. It ain't perfect and I'll still need to use the work computer for many things unfortunately.

On my personal machine I'll be running various VMs and playing with some very large datasets (not work data). I'm in the Data & Analytics business and like to do similar things in my spare time as well.

I also plan to keep the machine for 5-8 years like I did my last personal mac... so I wanted a bit of headroom.

 

[5425642]

My work now provides a nerfed remote computing platform that had basically email, teams, and office apps. It ain't perfect and I'll still need to use the work computer for many things unfortunately.

On my personal machine I'll be running various VMs and playing with some very large datasets (not work data). I'm in the Data & Analytics business and like to do similar things in my spare time as well.

I also plan to keep the machine for 5-8 years like I did my last personal mac... so I wanted a bit of headroom.

Ok, then I get you if your going to keep it for 5-8 years.
I'm on a 3 years cycle so

 

[joema2]

....The processors Apple announced today are truly amazing. BUT… BUT… lets face it. How many people really need that much power in a laptop?...what, aside from creative pros who needs that much power....

I frequently see things posted like this: "I'm not a professional, I'm just doing light video editing for my web page, why is it so slow? I'm only using a GoPro".

And it turns out (unbeknownst to themselves) they are using 4k/60 10-bit 4:2:2 HEVC (which is difficult to decode); they "only" want to stabilize each clip. They are using iMovie, etc. They do not realize that under the covers the computational burden is tremendous. IOW they are a "power user" without even knowing it.

My wife is a casual user, she came to me and said "Why is my iMac so slow? I'm not doing anything complex". It turns out she had found Daz 3D and wanted to experiment with different clothing. I said "It's because your GPU is too limited". Her: "What's a GPU?". She had become a 3D designer without even knowing it.

While there are many things you can do on an older machine, increasingly there are common activities which casual users do not perceive as computationally difficult, yet which are.

OTOH -- many common activities *could* be done fairly well on a hypothetical 14-15" M1 MacBook Air. The issue is how much cheaper would that be? They could call it the MacBook SE.

 

[assquatch]

Remember that the M1 compares to the high end outgoing i7s and not recently ago those were more than good enough for many pro users, and had a good lifespan to boot.

I work with large, data intensive software projects on the the (8GB) M1 and it hasn't left me craving any more power. I think where the m1 pro/max actually becomes necessary, is in *heavy* 3D, Video and ML workloads. Anything short of that and you might just be better served by the m1 for the price.

Anecdotally, I have a couple coworkers who work with video and are convinced they need the top M1 Max/64G to do their job. Currently they work on 4-year old i5/i7's. I have to keep reminding them that what they currently get their "professional" video work done on pales in comparison to the M1, which is a fraction as powerful as these new machines.

There are other great features/improvements in the new machines other than the chips though. No denying that. If budget is not a constraint, I think the new pros are awesome and I would not dissuade anyone from it. Just think that people tend to overestimate the power they need or assume that what they do is so pro, that anything less than the best won't do.

 

[satcomer]

I'm starting to think now with the release of these new Mac Book Pros that many Mac developers might update their DAS software to run in Silicone Macs!

 

[spiderman0616]

I agree that Apple's presentations are keenly honed; I expect them to think very carefully about everything they say and how they say it. My perception of their marketing ethos is always project forward momentum, even when taking a step back.

The fact is, just like their competitors they don't always get things right (butterfly keyboard, trashcan Mac Pro, etc); the markets they're in keep changing both as a result of and despite their input; they want to maintain a certain identity both for the company and their products; and they will occasionally want to change their trajectory as their own priorities evolve. But, as I said, you don't advertise in negatives.

That means a portion of their customerbase will notice when they address missteps, changes in the market, or adjustments to their plans. The problem is, we the audience don't always know which of those things Apple is in their own view addressing, or if they're simply adhering to the identity they want to maintain.

For instance: the MagSafe connector coming back. I saw some early takes on these forums claiming "see, they're admitting removing MagSafe was a mistake!" Then as more information trickled in we found out that standard USB-C simply wouldn't currently support fast charging at 140 watts on the 16" MBP. Apple had to provide a distinct connector for technical and usability reasons (a port that looks like USB-C, but isn't, is a bad move). Why not lean on the established MagSafe brand then?

..and once you have to have MagSafe on one of the MBPs you should put it on both even if it's not strictly speaking necessary, because it A) maintains a coherent design across a product generation, B) is good for interoperability when you can expect both products to exist in the same environment and C) makes communication about the products easier.

Would they have stuck with USB-C if it hadn't been a bottleneck? My guess is yes. You can still charge both through USB-C anyway, just not fast with the 16".

On a kind of related note, there's the notch. A lot of knee-jerk reactions to what a terrible design choice it is. Too wide! Could be shorter if it's just a camera (it's not)! What hasn't in my experience been given a lot of attention is the fact that the bottom bezel of the screen no longer says "MacBook Pro".

Because it doesn't need to.

I'm not saying the notch was added so that Apple could clean up the bezel. I'm just saying - as with the return of MagSafe - there's a lot of varied thought going into the choices Apple makes. Identity is one of them, and with Apple it's not an afterthought.

Personally I find all of this really fascinating.

100% agree. You may not need one, you may not want one, but it's ok to be fascinated and amazed by how much tech is being packed into these thin notebooks. I am absolutely 100% content with my M1 MBA, but that doesn't mean I don't have a blast watching other stuff come out. Aside from all the awfulness that happened in 2020, as far as Apple is concerned, I think we're going to be looking back fondly at the inception of Apple Silicon in 2020 for decades. In fact, I don't just think that, I know it. How?

Look at Intel's recent ads. Look at all the complaining on tech Twitter about notches and pricing and design choices. Look at Windows enthusiasts constantly bringing up the software support they enjoy. (Jury's out on how Microsoft will directly respond to M1 Pro and M1 Max, but I'm imagining it will come off as sad and desperate as usual.) These are the hot take reactions from the haters. It's a storm in a teacup. They think that screaming into the void will stop from happening what they've been dreading since rumors of Apple Silicon started: their platform of choice could possibly be in some minor trouble. Maybe even major trouble.

We would all react the same way if the tables were turned. Some day they may be. I don't think anytime soon, but any company can be disrupted, and its loyalists will be very uncomfortable about that. It's happened to Apple before, and it could happen again if they put the wrong leader in place or get disrupted by something else mind blowing that none of us could even imagine existing yet.

That's the thing about disruption. Real disruption happens when you least expect it and you don't recognize it as disruption until years later. I think last year was, on paper at least, too soon to say that M1 was a disruption. Nobody had these machines in hand yet other than developers and that's hardly a real world test. Well, we've had a year of millions of people real world testing millions of M1 Macs, and it's been a major success. If M1 Pro and M1 Max make their way into the mainstream of "pro" laptop users successfully, and I think it's safe to say they will, this is a major inflection point for the Mac. I'm talking raw market share here. Larger amounts of it than any of us have ever seen.

I know this all sounds crazy and hyperbolic NOW. I don't think it will in about 10 years. You all have permission to pull this comment up and make fun of me if I'm wrong.

 

[alien3dx]

Ok, then I get you if your going to keep it for 5-8 years.
I'm on a 3 years cycle so

i'm on 3 year cycle mac or windows. ..
** but most work development on imac intel

 

[lordhamster]

Ok, then I get you if your going to keep it for 5-8 years.
I'm on a 3 years cycle so

My last Work Mac was a 2016 Macbook Pro, they replaced it with a 2019 and I can't tell much if any difference. My last personal Macbook pro (forget the model but it was an intel) lasted me like 7 years... with the exception of the battery, performance-wise macbooks tend to work well far longer than their PC counterparts (in my experience).

 

[alien3dx]

My last Work Mac was a 2016 Macbook Pro, they replaced it with a 2019 and I can't tell much if any difference. My last personal Macbook pro (forget the model but it was an intel) lasted me like 7 years... with the exception of the battery, performance-wise macbooks tend to work well far longer than their PC counterparts (in my experience).

there is diff noticable 2011,2017 and m1 . but my ex mac mini 2014 baseline the worst offender(non ssd) .

m1 much faster render da vinci and xcode swift ui open simulator but still i used old imac 2017 to do those thing. My only dream was egpu on m1 (cannot) or they upgrade nvida card on intel,,

 

[spiderman0616]

My last Work Mac was a 2016 Macbook Pro, they replaced it with a 2019 and I can't tell much if any difference. My last personal Macbook pro (forget the model but it was an intel) lasted me like 7 years... with the exception of the battery, performance-wise macbooks tend to work well far longer than their PC counterparts (in my experience).

I have a 2019 15" MacBook Pro from work--an upgrade from my 2012 MacBook Air. There was obviously a huge increase in performance between those two machines, but it came at a huge cost: way more heat, and my old MBA was still able to outlast it on a full charge. I could get a full workday most of the time on my 7 year old MBA on a single charge, and my brand new 2019 couldn't make it to lunch time. Still can't, even after I made some adjustments and had our IT team get rid of some unnecessary processes. And it's a non starter to use it on anything but a desk or table. My legs can't take that much searing heat for more than about 10 minutes.

Compare that to my 2020 M1 MacBook Air. Runs cool even under full load, gets anywhere from 15-17 hours per battery charge most of the time unless I'm really pushing it with games or Affinity apps or something, boots up and wakes up infinitely faster than my 2019 Intel machine, and using it feels just as smooth as using an iPad Pro or iPhone.

The times are changing, and it's not looking good for Intel.

 

[lordhamster]

I have a 2019 15" MacBook Pro from work--an upgrade from my 2012 MacBook Air. There was obviously a huge increase in performance between those two machines, but it came at a huge cost: way more heat, and my old MBA was still able to outlast it on a full charge. I could get a full workday most of the time on my 7 year old MBA on a single charge, and my brand new 2019 couldn't make it to lunch time. Still can't, even after I made some adjustments and had our IT team get rid of some unnecessary processes. And it's a non starter to use it on anything but a desk or table. My legs can't take that much searing heat for more than about 10 minutes.

Compare that to my 2020 M1 MacBook Air. Runs cool even under full load, gets anywhere from 15-17 hours per battery charge most of the time unless I'm really pushing it with games or Affinity apps or something, boots up and wakes up infinitely faster than my 2019 Intel machine, and using it feels just as smooth as using an iPad Pro or iPhone.

The times are changing, and it's not looking good for Intel.

Yeah, what really got me excited for the M1 was when I upgraded my dad's 2013 MBP 13 inch to an M1 Macbook Air 16gb ram. He is 70, so I'm tech support. Though because he insists on using Quicken for Windows he also ends up running a VM 24/7. That machine is wicked fast compared to my 2019 work intel machine. I'm fully expecting to have my mind blown by the M1 Max I ordered.

 

[Frodolinski]

Question, is the M1 pro/max based on the A15?

 

[EdT]

First let me say I’ve been in IT/Telcom over 35 years. The processors Apple announced today are truly amazing. BUT… BUT… lets face it. How many people really need that much power in a laptop? Im an IT Pro and my Itel 2020 MacBook Pro and M1 Macbook air are sufficient. Really, think about it, what, aside from creative pros who needs that much power. Im disappointed a 14” MacBook Pro (M1) for the masses was not introduced today. Awesome technology for a very small percentage of users.

How many people ever use all the camera capabilities that their phone has? People are literally shooting tv and movie scenes with hand phones now. I wouldn’t know how or what to do to get something that is difficult to tell from a professional movie camera.

And how many people figure out how to use that much processing power simply because it is there? Not many, but for those few it can lead to life changing possibilities.

Most people don’t KNOW how much processing power they need. They don’t know everything they can do with a computer. And most won’t ever really find out. But they still can run programs and use features that they couldn’t with their old computer. Consumerism isn’t based on need, it’s based on want. And every economy in the world relies on that to a degree. Some more, some less, but no one wants to miss out because they didn’t have ‘X’.

 

[spiderman0616]

How many people ever use all the camera capabilities that their phone has? People are literally shooting tv and movie scenes with hand phones now. I wouldn’t know how or what to do to get something that is difficult to tell from a professional movie camera.

And how many people figure out how to use that much processing power simply because it is there? Not many, but for those few it can lead to life changing possibilities.

Most people don’t KNOW how much processing power they need. They don’t know everything they can do with a computer. And most won’t ever really find out. But they still can run programs and use features that they couldn’t with their old computer. Consumerism isn’t based on need, it’s based on want. And every economy in the world relies on that to a degree. Some more, some less, but no one wants to miss out because they didn’t have ‘X’.

Yep. I'm a huge proponent of actually digging into just even the computer's built in software, learning how to fully use as much of it as you can, and REALLY find out what you're able to do. It's crazy how many people don't know what's possible with just an iPhone these days.

 

[ader42]

As a 3D artist who has been in the industry for 15 years... I respectfully disagree.

Yes, there are more benefits for 3D artist on Windows, particularly with Nvidia cards but that's not a deal breaker. In my case, my 3D models need to get into Final Cut Pro projects as well as iOS apps which requires Mac. C4D, Octane, Modo and now Blender all have native Apple Silicon support. Also, the fact that Apple silicon uses unified memory which can theoretically allow the GPU to access much more memory than the typical 8-16gb of VRAM will be a great benefit to 3D artist. Especially as 4K and even 8K textures become the norm.

Mac will probably never be the default OS for 3D artist but if you think 3D artist don't use Mac, I am living proof that is incorrect. The 32 core 16" will be my new workhorse.

Indeed. And ZBrush uses CPU and GPU not so much… so some of us are more focused on the best CPU performance…

 

[armoured]

There are other great features/improvements in the new machines other than the chips though. No denying that. If budget is not a constraint, I think the new pros are awesome and I would not dissuade anyone from it. Just think that people tend to overestimate the power they need or assume that what they do is so pro, that anything less than the best won't do.

I plan on ordering the base 14" - the 'power' is nice but more than I will need; but, what's really swinging me on this, are Magsafe, SD slot, and to a lesser degree HDMI. Also I need 16/512 which brings the cost of the MacBook Air up considerably. Magsafe - every day; SD slot - frequent; HDMI - not often but when I need it, I need it (actually the worst pay-off in terms of dongle-hell, it's the ones you don't use or carry around all the time that cause the problems).

Add that all up - and that power/memory speed are never a negative and often a plus - worth the difference in price.

 

[valentinjesse]

M1 Max
I feel robbed with the Europe prices though. 6840 euro or the equivalent of $8000 united states dollars
But the worst thing is the 1 month waiting time to get this baby

Use cases:
Browsing with 500+ chrome tabs
Photoshop
Illustrator
Coding
Davinci Resolve
etc

 

[bushman4]

Apple would not not have made an M1 pro and an M1 max if it had limited use in the real world
Graphics and Data environments are improved with these new chips.
Developers, Gamers, Artists all benefit from the increased speed. And there are situations where the average user will benefit as well
It’s not for everybody but then again what product is

 

[jdb8167]

Question, is the M1 pro/max based on the A15?

They don't appear to be. It looks like the single core results posted on Geekbench Browser are showing about the same as the M1, maybe very slightly higher clocked. Considering the naming, that isn't too surprising. It seems likely that these SoCs were supposed to ship before the A15 was released but got delayed by various world events. The GPU cores might be new though. The jury is still out on that.