How many people really need M1 Pro or M1 Max

[ksj1]

Didn't Bill Gates once say no one would ever need more than 640kb of ram?

I remember many years ago when the IBM PC with 640kb and a 10MB hard drive was taken from me and given to a manager because 'no one needs that much power'. I was given a dual floppy PC instead.

Edit - And yes I am getting a 16" with 64GB, 1TB ssd and 32 core GPU.

I'm still a developer and believe me, I spend lots of time watching tests scroll by. And I will save a huge amount of time compiling code as well. Time is money, so this will pay for itself in no time, and I'll have a laptop that will last many years.

 

[DMG35]

The problem is that Apple doesn't give users any other options who want a laptop with a larger screen. Its 13" or nothing for the non Pro users.

 

[m1maverick]

Didn't Bill Gates once say no one would ever need more than 640kb of ram?

No, he did not:

Bill Gates denies making 1981 comment about limits of RAM needs, despite popular legend

There are plenty of references similar to this.

I think anyone who "knows" Bill Gates could easily see this would not be something he would say.

 

[Jamie0003]

What I want to know is, will apple add more ports to the MacBook Air next? It's obviously due a redesign, if it adds MagSafe, quick charging, HDMI and (unlikely I know) a mini LED display and 120hz, this would be a killer for me.

 

[KPOM]

What I want to know is, will apple add more ports to the MacBook Air next? It's obviously due a redesign, if it adds MagSafe, quick charging, HDMI and (unlikely I know) a mini LED display and 120hz, this would be a killer for me.

I think they will add MagSafe, but that’s it. If M2 can drive 2 external displays, then they will update the Thunderbolt ports to TB4.

 

[Veridium]

It's the applications which need the capabilities, not the user.

Six of one and half a dozen of the other.

 

[m1maverick]

Six of one and half a dozen of the other.

I disagree. My needs are easily met with older technology (for example I am still using Office 2007). It's the rest of the industry which is pushing me towards higher and higher performance requirements.

The bloat of the Internet is my favorite example. I have been using it since the mid 90's and I can honestly say, with few exceptions, today's internet doesn't provide me any more additional information than the Internet from 10 years ago. Sure it looks more polished and has "better stuff" than 10 years ago. But I don't see that I am gaining any more information from it.

In fact I can say some things have taken a step back. A few examples:

• Auto start videos. Despite my attempts to stop them they auto start even when not wanted.
• Ads - I absolutely hate these things. I'll be reading something and then some fly over ad comes in. Or a video starts to play. Or a insert comes in moving the section I was just reading. No amount of blocking seems to stop them.
• Copying and pasting which retains formatting. This seems so trivial but I hate when I copy and paste something it retains the formatting of the copied text (like font size). I now find myself having to do an intermediary paste into something like Notepad and then copying the text to the final position.

I use some older technology and while limited it lacks some of the "improvements" we see with modern systems.

But I digress. What I need and what applications currently offer are two different things. Unfortunately, and this is a larger problem with Apple than the PC ecosystem, I have to upgrade along with it in order to stay compatible (heaven knows what will happen if I ever have to activate my copy of Office 2007 on a different system)

 

[Digital_Sousaphone]

A budget 14” will probably come when the M2 MacBook Air is released. Having the 14” body with extra ports will give it a little more differentiation when compared to the MacBook Air. Should make things less confusing than the current M1 13” Air and 13” Pro relationship.

As far as who really needs the extra power of the M1 Pro and M1 Max: I think Apple showed who their target user base is with their presentation. These are computers for creative professionals, video editors, developers, music producers, 3D artist. People who push their machines every day. Out side of those groups, I’m sure tech heads will buy in too even if they don’t use the full potential. Everyone else should be more than happy with the already very powerful M1.

3D artists won’t use macs. Too many software limitations on Apple silicon.

 

[terminator-jq]

3D artists won’t use macs. Too many software limitations on Apple silicon.

As a 3D artist who has been in the industry for 15 years... I respectfully disagree.

Yes, there are more benefits for 3D artist on Windows, particularly with Nvidia cards but that's not a deal breaker. In my case, my 3D models need to get into Final Cut Pro projects as well as iOS apps which requires Mac. C4D, Octane, Modo and now Blender all have native Apple Silicon support. Also, the fact that Apple silicon uses unified memory which can theoretically allow the GPU to access much more memory than the typical 8-16gb of VRAM will be a great benefit to 3D artist. Especially as 4K and even 8K textures become the norm.

Mac will probably never be the default OS for 3D artist but if you think 3D artist don't use Mac, I am living proof that is incorrect. The 32 core 16" will be my new workhorse.

 

[Digital_Sousaphone]

As a 3D artist who has been in the industry for 15 years... I respectfully disagree.

Yes, there are more benefits for 3D artist on Windows, particularly with Nvidia cards but that's not a deal breaker. In my case, my 3D models need to get into Final Cut Pro projects as well as iOS apps which requires Mac. C4D, Octane, Modo and now Blender all have native Apple Silicon support. Also, the fact that Apple silicon uses unified memory which can theoretically allow the GPU to access much more memory than the typical 8-16gb of VRAM will be a great benefit to 3D artist. Especially as 4K and even 8K textures become the norm.

Mac will probably never be the default OS for 3D artist but if you think 3D artist don't use Mac, I am living proof that is incorrect. The 32 core 16" will be my new workhorse.

Yeah, you're one of hundreds. It's dead af. Been so since the trash can.

Edit: Whenever people inevitably point towards the same pile of software that has been ported, then I start thinking of the countless number of apps that don't even have companies behind them and are solely built on the works of individuals who happen to make a good tool....yeah you are dreaming.

 

[chumps]

3D artists won’t use macs. Too many software limitations on Apple silicon.

nVidia still dominates for GPU rendering but in the past year there have been a lot of developments.

Octane X AS native (up to 64 GB 'vram' this is nothing to sneeze at).
Blender AS native w/ upcoming Metal support.
Redshift AS native.
Cinema4D AS native.
Houdini 18.5 runs alright on my M1. I'm hoping 19 and Karma's XPU will support Metal but who knows.
Video/Comp wise Resolve and Fusion have supported AS since nearly day one.
Most Adobe apps are AS native.
Most music DAWS are AS native including Ableton 11.
ZBrush is Intel but as it's CPU based it is quite fast on my M1.
Unity has good support for AS in terms of platform support but I'm not sure about the editor.
Unreal Engine supports AS in terms of platform support but but editor is still Intel, and a few of the more advanced features in 5 particularly is not supported on Mac.

So, it's not perfect, but it is promising, and should only get better. Given it's only been a year since the release of AS I think the software support has been remarkable.

IDK anything about Autodesk's or Foundry's stuff.

 

[jjcs]

There's always AMD.

I know exactly what you mean. I used to do a lot of projects with Apple in the PPC and early Intel days for scientific computing. They've completely lost interest. Their target market is YouTubers, musicians and photographers these days and of course trying to tell everyone else they need the power to read emails and browse the web. They have pretty much abandoned the scientific market, which is a shame.

It wouldn't require that much effort on their part to get those users back. Far less than required for "gamers" and they could crow about their contributions to the sciences again, but.... I guess not. Not their core market. (Actually, their "core market" isn't even people who use FCP and LR and the like). It's a pro-sumer platform, not a workstation. Not really. Not like an Octane was back in the day. Wouldn't take much effort to change that.

 

[Digital_Sousaphone]

nVidia still dominates for GPU rendering but in the past year there have been a lot of developments.

Octane X AS native (up to 64 GB 'vram' this is nothing to sneeze at).
Blender AS native w/ upcoming Metal support.
Redshift AS native.
Cinema4D AS native.
Houdini 18.5 runs alright on my M1. I'm hoping 19 and Karma's XPU will support Metal but who knows.
Video/Comp wise Resolve and Fusion have supported AS since nearly day one.
Most Adobe apps are AS native.
Most music DAWS are AS native including Ableton 11.
ZBrush is Intel but as it's CPU based it is quite fast on my M1.
Unity has good support for AS in terms of platform support but I'm not sure about the editor.
Unreal Engine supports AS in terms of platform support but it is still Intel, and a few of the more advanced features in 5 particularly is not supported in Mac.

So, it's not perfect, but it is promising, and should only get better. Given it's only been a year since the release of AS I think the software support has been remarkable.

IDK anything about Autodesk's or Froundry's stuff.

Whenever people inevitably point towards the same pile of software that has been ported, then I start thinking of the countless number of apps that don't even have companies behind them and are solely built on the works of individuals who happen to make a good tool....yeah you are dreaming.

I'm just going to use that as my ad hoc reply as the SAME exact references always come up.

 

[jjcs]

The reality distortion field that is the macrumors forums tells you that the M1 MBP is slow, noisy, runs hot and is a glorified Chromebook judging by some of the comments. None of these flaws of course were noticed this time last year when people's minds were being blown.

I thought the "reality distortion field" usually resulted in the Mac destroying all other systems performance wise. Like those people claiming that these new chips would destroy Intel and AMD. While very very impressive in a laptop, no.

 

[chumps]

Whenever people inevitably point towards the same pile of software that has been ported, then I start thinking of the countless number of apps that don't even have companies behind them and are solely built on the works of individuals who happen to make a good tool....yeah you are dreaming.

I'm just going to use that as my ad hoc reply as the SAME exact references always come up.

I understand 0% of this reply. In any case 3D stuff is fine on a Mac. I have an Intel machine but I only use it for some really obscure painting apps, and maybe Unreal 5 down the line. For everything else, I'd rather either use a native AS app or under Rosetta. Zbrush on my M1 is silent and quite fast. ZBrush on my Intel Mac is fast but noisy. Zbrush on my Boot Camp install? Why bother. I'm on MacRumors for a reason. The less Windows I need to deal with the happier I am.

 

[Digital_Sousaphone]

I understand 0% of this reply. In any case 3D stuff is fine on a Mac. I have an Intel machine but I only use it for some really obscure painting apps, and maybe Unreal 5 down the line. For everything else, I'd rather either use a native AS app or under Rosetta. Zbrush on my M1 is silent and quite fast. ZBrush on my Intel Mac is fast but noisy. Zbrush on my Boot Camp install? Why bother. I'm on MacRumors for a reason. The less Windows I need to deal with the happier I am.

Me have problem.
Me need to do task over and over again
Me look for tool on internet
Me find blog post by 3d artist with same problem who build tool to solve problem
Me take tool
Me use tool
Me save time
Tool work on PC
No Work on Mac.

 

[chumps]

I thought the "reality distortion field" usually resulted in the Mac destroying all other systems performance wise. Like those people claiming that these new chips would destroy Intel and AMD. While very very impressive in a laptop, no.

In terms of GPU rendering the new MacBooks are quite compelling. 64 GB of unified memory is great for GPU renders, nothing having to deal with out-of-core stuff, not having to deal with wasteful duplication across multiple GPU's that top out at 32 to 48 GB at pretty exorbitant prices. Of course, it will only get better. A M2 Max whatever with 128 GB to 256 GB of unified memory is pretty darn compelling for a solo 'pro'. In fact what is the realistic upper limit for unified memory? I really would like to know.

 

[chumps]

Me have problem.
Me need to do task over and over again
Me look for tool on internet
Me find blog post by 3d artist with same problem who build tool to solve problem
Me take tool
Me use tool
Me save time
Tool work on PC
No Work on Mac.

This is bizarre.

Everyone has different needs. For everything I use and need everything works either natively or under Rosetta. If I was using Foundry products or something it would be a different story and I'd have to decide if dealing with a Windows box would be worth it.

The only reason I keep my Boot Camp install is literally for two very obscure painting apps. Yes they 'no work on Mac', but in the end is it worth the time and effort for me to maintain a Windows install for those two apps? I'm not really sure. I'm keeping it around in the meantime. Tired of reinstalling Boot Camp lol.

 

[jjcs]

In terms of GPU rendering the new MacBooks are quite compelling. 64 GB of unified memory is great for GPU renders, nothing having to deal with out-of-core stuff, not having to deal with wasteful duplication across multiple GPU's that top out at 32 to 48 GB at pretty exorbitant prices. Of course, it will only get better. A M2 Max whatever with 128 GB to 256 GB of unified memory is pretty darn compelling for a solo 'pro'. In fact what is the realistic upper limit for unified memory? I really would like to know.

Well, you aren't going to have all of that 64GB, but as I said - very impressive for a laptop. Compared to an Epyc2 node with a dedicated GPU card (which costs FAR more than the most expensive M1 Max config), not so much. Apple just doesn't compete or want to compete at that level. Pushing the SoC for massive memory is going to be a problem in the short term. For any new Mac Pro at least. Not sure how they want to handle that.

 

[Digital_Sousaphone]

This is bizarre.

Everyone has different needs. For everything I use and need everything works either natively or under Rosetta. If I was using Foundry products or Maya or something it would be a different story and I'd have to decide if dealing with a Windows box would be worth it.

The only reason I keep my Boot Camp install is literally for two very obscure painting apps, and possibly Unreal 5. Yes they 'no work on Mac', but in the end is it worth the time and effort for me to maintain a Windows install for those two apps? I'm not really sure. I'm keeping it around in the meantime. Tired of reinstalling Boot Camp lol.

Me think you good at platitudes. Me think reality do not meet with your philosophy. Me done with conversation.

 

[chumps]

Well, you aren't going to have all of that 64GB, but as I said - very impressive for a laptop. Compared to an Epyc2 node with a dedicated GPU card (which costs FAR more than the most expensive M1 Max config), not so much. Apple just doesn't compete or want to compete at that level. Pushing the SoC for massive memory is going to be a problem in the short term. For any new Mac Pro at least. Not sure how they want to handle that.

True, but in a GPU render situation that doesn't require much system memory, it's still like at least 48GB? Pro 32-48 GB cards are crazy expensive. Consumer GPU's top out at 16-24 GB. Very expensive nVidia cards are 11-24 GB. I'm not saying GPU memory is everything but once you are RAM limited thing suck very fast.

 

[terminator-jq]

nVidia still dominates for GPU rendering but in the past year there have been a lot of developments.

Octane X AS native (up to 64 GB 'vram' this is nothing to sneeze at).
Blender AS native w/ upcoming Metal support.
Redshift AS native.
Cinema4D AS native.
Houdini 18.5 runs alright on my M1. I'm hoping 19 and Karma's XPU will support Metal but who knows.
Video/Comp wise Resolve and Fusion have supported AS since nearly day one.
Most Adobe apps are AS native.
Most music DAWS are AS native including Ableton 11.
ZBrush is Intel but as it's CPU based it is quite fast on my M1.
Unity has good support for AS in terms of platform support but I'm not sure about the editor.
Unreal Engine supports AS in terms of platform support but but editor is still Intel, and a few of the more advanced features in 5 particularly is not supported on Mac.

So, it's not perfect, but it is promising, and should only get better. Given it's only been a year since the release of AS I think the software support has been remarkable.

IDK anything about Autodesk's or Froundry's stuff.

Great list! Plus we have to remember the M1 hasn’t even been out for a full year so that level of support is pretty good! No doubt the M1 Pro and M1 Max will attract even more pro software.

To clarify your list: Unity does offer a native Apple silicon version of the editor. GPU light mapping is even supported which will be fantastic on the M1 Max. On Foundry’s end, the latest version of Modo also has a native Apple Silicon version (it may still be in beta). Autodesk moves slow on everything so I’m not expecting anything from them anytime soon. When it comes to Zbrush, they have a good amount of users on Mac (part of the reason why Zbrush was one of the first applications to officially support Sidecar) so I think an Apple silicon version is right around the corner.

I think part of the reason Mac has been less attractive to 3D artist in the past was due to lower GPU performance compared to windows. With the M1 Max, Apple is basically giving us something close to a 3080m with much lower power consumption and access to much higher VRAM… I don’t care what anyone says, that’s fantastic for 3D artist!

 

[jjcs]

True, but in a GPU render situation that doesn't require much system memory, it's still like at least 48GB? Pro 32-48 GB cards are crazy expensive. Consumer GPU's top out at 16 GB. Very expensive nVidia cards are 11-24 GB. I'm not saying GPU memory is everything but once you are RAM limited thing suck very fast.

This is true. GPU computing with Metal is just of no use for my use case.

 

[jjcs]

I think part of the reason Mac has been less attractive to 3D artist in the past was due to lower GPU performance compared to windows. With the M1 Max, Apple is basically giving us something close to a 3080m with much lower power consumption and access to much higher VRAM… I don’t care what anyone says, that’s fantastic for 3D artist!

Provided the developers of your 3D software want to target an API not supported anywhere else.

 

[chumps]

Great list! Plus we have to remember the M1 hasn’t even been out for a full year so that level of support is pretty good! No doubt the M1 Pro and M1 Max will attract even more pro software.

To clarify your list: Unity does offer a native Apple silicon version of the editor. GPU light mapping is even supported which will be fantastic on the M1 Max. On Foundry’s end, the latest version of Modo also has a native Apple Silicon version (it may still be in beta). Autodesk moves slow on everything so I’m not expecting anything from them anytime soon. When it comes to Zbrush, they have a good amount of users on Mac (part of the reason why Zbrush was one of the first applications to officially support Sidecar) so I think an Apple silicon version is right around the corner.

I think part of the reason Mac has been less attractive to 3D artist in the past was due to lower GPU performance compared to windows. With the M1 Max, Apple is basically giving us something close to a 3080m with much lower power consumption and access to much higher VRAM… I don’t care what anyone says, that’s fantastic for 3D artist!

Yes I think 3D, AR and VR are the next spaces Apple is looking to dominate, the way they have with 2D, video, and music production. On the developer side of things, I'd imagine it'd be a lot less work to write for Metal than several different ISA's, GPU vendors, CPU vendors, etc. Is the market share really there right now? Probably not. But in a few years time? Maybe. Probably?