How to: Boot Camp without a Boot Screen

[monkeybagel]

Some people whose bootroms were corrupted (some of which could no longer boot) also had multiple MS signing certificates in their NVRAM from Win10 EFI installs. An absolute causal relationship between the two was never established (not to my knowledge anyway) but considering the cMP cannot utilize SecureBoot, MS should not be installing those certs in the first place. Installing in Legacy mode prevents that situation entirely.

But there are other reasons too. For one, Apple never sanctioned UEFI Windows installs on the CMP, whereas they do for later Macs which use UEFI-compliant firmware. They always intended for Windows to be installed in Legacy mode on this hardware. One example of this is that you cannot use the built-in Startup Disk preference to set an EFI Win10 install as bootable. If you do, the cMP will either throw an error or worse it will act as if it's setting it and then once you reboot you'll get stuck in the CSM boot, whereby you can't get to Windows nor macOS without a PRAM reset or option booting (which is not possible for most of us as of Mojave).

It seems to be the consensus here that TRIM indeed is in effect with Win10 installed in Legacy mode, and furthermore that any speed benefits of the SATA controller being in AHCI mode are minor at best. If you're interested, there was even a method posted here a while back of how to get AHCI mode working in a legacy install, although I believe it had some side effects like breaking sleep mode.

For most users who want to be able to easily switch back and forth between Win10 and Mojave using Apple's provided tools, it's easier and safer to just use Legacy mode. You of course are free to use UEFI mode on your own system if you've determined the potential speed advantage is worth the hassle and potential risks.

Thanks for the explanation. Every since Windows 8/8.1 (which I very rarely used as I disliked it) I have installed using EFI mode, and I have noted that Startup Disk in System Preferences do not work, but I have been used to that since I installed Windows that way. Also I know that the Boot Camp Control Panel in Windows will not work correctly when Boot to OS X is selected from the System Tray. I supposed I have just grown accustomed to these issues and have always used the Option button to select an alternate OS, and held down Ctrl to make it stick if I want to make it the default OS, and never had any issues. If I need to change the OS that the machine is booted into remotely (from OS X to Windows) I ssh into the machine and bless the Windows bootx64.efi file and restart, and it always will boot into Windows. Perhaps I am just used to the bugs, but I haven't encountered the corrupt firmware issue, however my machine has not upgraded its BootROM to anything beyond the one that supported APFS, and not the one that allows booting to NVMe SSDs. I also have a boot screen with a flashed GTX 980Ti, and am "stuck" at 10.13.6, and will be there for a while it we do not see a new web driver. I can't see the upgrade to 10.14 is worth purchasing a new video card and losing BTTM, etc. personally. I would be interested in those on a Mac Pro 5,1 running Mojave if they feel the upgrade is worth it.

Thanks!

BTW, I don't see any incentive to upgrade the beloved "cheese grater" that I bought in 2013 - Yes it was expensive when new, but it has been a rock solid workstation that I use more as a OS X/UNIX Workstation and it is such a stable platform that can run months on end without a reboot needed. I have the dual 3.06 Xeons, and upgraded to 128GB of RAM a long time ago. I guess the area I am lacking is the throughput on the disks, as I am using internal disks and external USB disks. A 10GbE card with a SAN connected would resolve much of the storage issues, and would provide good fault-tolerance and decent speed. I think I recall reading of an iSCSI initiator for OS X, but I have not used or tested it, but that would be something of interest. I am an vSphere/Exchange/Windows Server administrator, and people find it odd I prefer a Macintosh as a workstation, but the reliability of OS X and window management, and VMware Fusion Professional all work great together, and I have just grown to love OS X as a desktop OS. We can partly thank Windows 8/8.1 for that!

As a side note, I guess I am used to "unsupported" territory, and we all are there if we are running Windows 10 on the Mac Pro, since Apple never said it would run Windows 10. Mac Pro users tend to be power users and of course know better, so although EFI is/has been unsupported the life of the Mac Pro, the advantages it offered I felt outweighed the boot selection option from the respective installed OSs. If I am not mistaken, it was the first machine that Apple produced that would install any version of Windows in EFI mode, starting with Windows 8. I tried many times to install Windows 7 Enterprise x64 in EFI, but it did not detect the video card properly, and I never continued attempting. If the drivers were slipstreamed or an unattended file were included on the install media, it may successfully install and come up to the desktop, but I have not attempted this.

 

[CyberWombat]

Hi, guys. I'm technically stupid and my English is incredibly far from perfect, so I read all the topic and didn't find (or simply did not understand) the answer to my question. I have High Sierra, I installed Boot Camp with Windows 10, disabled csrutil so now I can boot in my Windows system with Boot Manager, but I didn't understand if I can do anything to boot in OS X from Win? It seems Boot Camp do not see my APFS' Mac partition.

 

[h9826790]

Hi, guys. I'm technically stupid and my English is incredibly far from perfect, so I read all the topic and didn't find (or simply did not understand) the answer to my question. I have High Sierra, I installed Boot Camp with Windows 10, disabled csrutil so now I can boot in my Windows system with Boot Manager, but I didn't understand if I can do anything to boot in OS X from Win? It seems Boot Camp do not see my APFS' Mac partition.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ut-a-boot-screen.2114788/page-9#post-26689280

 

[CyberWombat]

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ut-a-boot-screen.2114788/page-9#post-26689280

Big thanks!

 

[hknatm]

I am having a problem, i can not boot into dvd. It stucks at the apple logo screen even if i press c to boot.

 

[hknatm]

Hi all, i still have “no bootable device” line. Tried with 1709 and 1803 builds. Will try windows 7 disk now. What is the problem i really dont know.

 

[hknatm]

Hi all, i still have “no bootable device” line. Tried with 1709 and 1803 builds. Will try windows 7 disk now. What is the problem i really dont know.

I did it, it was all about pcie ssd. When it is installed i was not able to boot the dvd. After i removed it , worked!!

Now i have a trouble about hdds. They were exfat formetted 1,5/1,5/2 tb disks but i cant see them on windows not in disks, not in disk management either.

 

[skizzo]

I did it, it was all about pcie ssd. When it is installed i was not able to boot the dvd. After i removed it , worked!!

Now i have a trouble about hdds. They were exfat formetted 1,5/1,5/2 tb disks but i cant see them on windows not in disks, not in disk management either.

Are you saying you were able to boot from the DVD using a recent Windows 10 ISO, such as version 1809? I did not think to remove my 970 EVO when trying to install Windows 10. I kept getting the black screen with just the blue Windows logo on it, and it would get stuck there. I had to update an existing Windows 7 install instead of clean installing Windows 10 from scratch

 

[hknatm]

Are you saying you were able to boot from the DVD using a recent Windows 10 ISO, such as version 1809? I did not think to remove my 970 EVO when trying to install Windows 10. I kept getting the black screen with just the blue Windows logo on it, and it would get stuck there. I had to update an existing Windows 7 install instead of clean installing Windows 10 from scratch

I used the 1709 windows 10 pro build. If i do not remove it it says “no bootable device”

After booted mine stuck about 10 minutes with the windows logo at black screen. Then loaded the install screen. By that time i think it was loading the whole disk.

 

[h9826790]

I did it, it was all about pcie ssd. When it is installed i was not able to boot the dvd. After i removed it , worked!!

Now i have a trouble about hdds. They were exfat formetted 1,5/1,5/2 tb disks but i cant see them on windows not in disks, not in disk management either.

Thanks for telling us this important issue.

Even not 100% sure why this happen. I will add the "remove all other hard drives" into the guide. We used to do this for EFI installation, but no need to do this in legacy installation. However, may be Windows 10 installer changed something. Or the new firmwares NVMe bootability cause this new issue.

 

[hknatm]

Any idea about using internal hdd bay,
Do i need to buy raid controller?

 

[h9826790]

Any idea about using internal hdd bay,
Do i need to buy raid controller?

Just use it as you wish, no limitation on that.

And not required to buy any RAID controller.

 

[hknatm]

Just use it as you wish, no limitation on that.

And not required to buy any RAID controller.

The pc cant see it. 4 internal bays 2 of them formates apfs and 2 exfat. Cant see none

Also disks not spinning under windows.

 

[h9826790]

The pc cant see it. 4 internal bays 2 of them formates apfs and 2 exfat. Cant see none

Also disks not spinning under windows.

That’s not normal. You may open a new thread to ask for help. But this should have nothing to do about how to install Windows, or which GPU you are using.

 

[hknatm]

That’s not normal. You may open a new thread to ask for help. But this should have nothing to do about how to install Windows, or which GPU you are using.

Okay , thanks. Will open.

 

[phairphan]

Finally updated my Bootcamp software using h9826790's step-by-step instructions. I had already installed an earlier version of the Bootcamp 6 software, so I had to improvise a bit, but I'm now able to boot back into OS X without a PRAM reset. Many thanks, @h9826790!

 

[Pentaxer]

Have just got BSOD in Win10. Right after install of HFS drivers from BootCamp 6.0.
Windows is fully updated.

 

[ilikebike]

I finally got an RX580 to replace my old nVidia card in my flashed cMP 5,1 and upgraded to Mojave. Now I'm trying to get my BootCamp install working again. I followed the great guide from h9826790 to get BootCamp 6.1 installed in Windows and it seems to have installed fine. My problem is that when I click the Windows partition to reboot back into I get an error:
"An error occurred in trying to access the startup disk settings
You may not have privileges to change the startup disk. Make sure you have administrative privileges and try again."

I looked around online and some other people have had this issue as well and the solution was to run the program from a non-admin account or to use runas.exe in windows to force it to run as a Standard user. Relevant thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/boot-camp-control-panel-help.870463/


When I do that it does ... nothing. Nothing runs, nothing comes up, it's like I never clicked it at all. The only way to get back out is a PRAM reset to bring me back to Mojave.

Any ideas?

 

[h9826790]

I finally got an RX580 to replace my old nVidia card in my flashed cMP 5,1 and upgraded to Mojave. Now I'm trying to get my BootCamp install working again. I followed the great guide from h9826790 to get BootCamp 6.1 installed in Windows and it seems to have installed fine. My problem is that when I click the Windows partition to reboot back into I get an error:
"An error occurred in trying to access the startup disk settings
You may not have privileges to change the startup disk. Make sure you have administrative privileges and try again."

I looked around online and some other people have had this issue as well and the solution was to run the program from a non-admin account or to use runas.exe in windows to force it to run as a Standard user. Relevant thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/boot-camp-control-panel-help.870463/


When I do that it does ... nothing. Nothing runs, nothing comes up, it's like I never clicked it at all. The only way to get back out is a PRAM reset to bring me back to Mojave.

Any ideas?

May I know if that's a clean Windows / Bootcamp installation? Or you tried to install Bootcamp 6.1 on top of the old one?

 

[ilikebike]

May I know if that's a clean Windows / Bootcamp installation? Or you tried to install Bootcamp 6.1 on top of the old one?

It was an old Windows/BootCamp install when I was using HFS+ on High Sierra and BootCamp 5. I upgraded to Mojave, moved to APFS and tried BootCamp 6.

I tried to do the uninstall of BootCamp 5 but it gave me an error. I went ahead with Boot Camp 6 install and it seems to have uninstalled 5 first but now I have that issue as described.

I feel like something may be funky with this Windows install. I think I'm going to just blow it away and start fresh.

 

[h9826790]

It was an old Windows/BootCamp install when I was using HFS+ on High Sierra and BootCamp 5. I upgraded to Mojave, moved to APFS and tried BootCamp 6.

I tried to do the uninstall of BootCamp 5 but it gave me an error. I went ahead with Boot Camp 6 install and it seems to have uninstalled 5 first but now I have that issue as described.

I feel like something may be funky with this Windows install. I think I'm going to just blow it away and start fresh.

You have to uninstall the Bootcamp 5 first with the exact same version of that Bootcamp 5 installer manually via the command prompt. That looks like why you having this issue.

 

[DigitaLife]

OK, done!

Thanks for providing all the required info. This is my version of "how to do it".

1) Insert the Windows installation DVD into the super drive (How to burn a Windows installation disc properly). [N.B. Do NOT replace the DVD by USB installer. It won't work]

2) Shutdown the Mac

3) Hold "C" to boot (if you have NVMe installed, and can't boot from the disc, please try remove the NVMe)

4) Follow the on screen instruction until reach the "Where do you want to install Windows" step
View attachment 797517

5) "Delete" all the target SSD's partitions. In the above capture (downloaded from internet), you can see that there are 4 partitions for existing EFI mode Windows. Select each partition one by one, and click Delete. Be careful, do NOT remove other drive's partition. All partitions should be on the same drive. e.g. In the above example, all belongs to Drive 0. There is no requirement to remove any other hard drive from the cMP. But if you want to play safe, you can physically remove them between step 2 and 3 to avoid error.

Eventually will looks like this. No more partitions, but just a single large piece of Unallocated Space.
View attachment 797518

6) Click New. This will automatically create the correct and required partitions with all available space. For legacy installation, should be only two partitions automatically created.
View attachment 797527

7) Select the newly created partition, and continue the installation.

8) For Windows 10, the LAN line should work straight away after installation completed. So now, you can use Edge to access the internet.

9) Go to https://github.com/timsutton/brigadier/releases

10) Download brigadier.exe (0.2.4)

11) insert a USB drive (this is not mandatory, but just make the command prompt work easier)

12) Format the USB drive to FAT32

13) Copy brigadier.exe to the USB drive (assume it's the E drive)

14) Open Command Prompt (search CMD can find it)

15) type

e:

16) type

brigadier -m MacPro5,1

17) Once finished, rename the "Bootcampxxxxxxxxxx" folder to "Bootcamp5"

18 ) type

brigadier -m iMacPro1,1

19) Once finished, rename the "Bootcampxxxxxxxxxx" folder to "Bootcamp61"

20) search CMD again, but this time right click, and choose "run as admin"

21) type

e:

22) type

cd Bootcamp5/Bootcamp/Drivers/Apple

23) type

msiexec /i bootcamp.msi

24) After installation finished and reboot. Search CMD again, right click, and choose "run as admin"

25) type

e:

26) type

cd Bootcamp5/Bootcamp/Drivers/Apple

27) type

msiexec /x bootcamp.msi

This will NOT remove the drivers, but just the bootcamp apps

28) type

cd Bootcamp61/Bootcamp/Drivers/Apple

29) type

msiexec /i bootcamp.msi

30) Let it finish the installation and reboot. And now you can install the hard drives back in.

So now, if you run the bootcamp apps. You should see something like this.
View attachment 797522
Language doesn't really matter, but you can see all the selections.

Those HFS+ High Sierra options will show the hard drive's name (e.g. 8T Backup)

Those APFS Mojave options will show as "Mac" above macOS.

From now on, you can use startup disk in Mojave to select Windows 10 (I renamed the SSD, usually it should shows BOOTCAMP, but not Win 10)
View attachment 797524

And of course, we can use bootcamp apps in Windows to select Mojave.

And have everything working as expected. e.g. Keyboard functions keys, Magic Mouse, BT 4.0, Wifi ac, USB 3.0, etc.

P.S. I am not sure if step 24 - 27 can be skipped or not. You may try, may safe you a minute for rebooting.

Hi first of all thanks for your instructions really well done and detailed!
I have a Mac Pro 5.1 with Mojave in SSD bay 1 and Windows 10 in SSD bay 2. The GPU is Sapphire RX 580 Nitro + 8GB without boot screen.
To install Windows 10 in EFI mode (by USB drive) I had used an ATI Radeon 5770 and High Sierra.
Then I replaced the 5770 with the RX 580 and upgraded to Mojave. Then thanks to your help I installed BC6.1 in Windows 10 but now while I can start Mojave from Windows, I can not start Windows 10 from Mojave instead.
Then I burned a DVD with the ISO installer of Windows 10 to redo the installation in Legacy mode (by DVD) as you suggested but unfortunately when I start the Mac by pressing the "C" key to start the installation, after the appearance of the Windows logo on the screen freezes and does not go on. I've also tried to disconnect both the Mojave SSD and the Windows SSD but nothing, crashes anyway.
What can I do to be able to boot the DVD and how can I fix the Windows 10 boot from Mojave?
Thanks in advance!

 

[h9826790]

Hi first of all thanks for your instructions really well done and detailed!
I have a Mac Pro 5.1 with Mojave in SSD bay 1 and Windows 10 in SSD bay 2. The GPU is Sapphire RX 580 Nitro + 8GB without boot screen.
To install Windows 10 in EFI mode (by USB drive) I had used an ATI Radeon 5770 and High Sierra.
Then I replaced the 5770 with the RX 580 and upgraded to Mojave. Then thanks to your help I installed BC6.1 in Windows 10 but now while I can start Mojave from Windows, I can not start Windows 10 from Mojave instead.
Then I burned a DVD with the ISO installer of Windows 10 to redo the installation in Legacy mode (by DVD) as you suggested but unfortunately when I start the Mac by pressing the "C" key to start the installation, after the appearance of the Windows logo on the screen freezes and does not go on. I've also tried to disconnect both the Mojave SSD and the Windows SSD but nothing, crashes anyway.
What can I do to be able to boot the DVD and how can I fix the Windows 10 boot from Mojave?
Thanks in advance!

How long you wait after that "freeze"? It may be just the disc is loading.

Also, if have any NVMe, remove them all may make the difference.

Of course, you may try an older version of Windows 10 installation disc as well.

 

[PianoPro]

Then I burned a DVD with the ISO installer of Windows 10 to redo the installation in Legacy mode (by DVD) as you suggested but unfortunately when I start the Mac by pressing the "C" key to start the installation, after the appearance of the Windows logo on the screen freezes and does not go on.

How did you create the DVD? Did you convert the .iso to a .cdr file first? If not, it won't work.

 

[DigitaLife]

How long you wait after that "freeze"? It may be just the disc is loading.

Also, if have any NVMe, remove them all may make the difference.

Of course, you may try an older version of Windows 10 installation disc as well.

Resolved!
Thanks for your help!
Since I would like to do a clean installation of Mojave now, do you have a suggestion on how to make a bootable DVD for Mojave installation?
Thanks in advance!