How to: Boot Camp without a Boot Screen

[mode11]

Hi PianoPro, thanks for the response. Win10 is definitely installed in legacy mode. When I run "bless --info --getBoot --verbose 2>&1 | grep -i legacy" after previously selecting Win10 in Startup Disk, Terminal gives a few "Legacy mode supported" and then "Matching legacy device 'disk0s3'".

The reason I run both off the same SSD is that SSDs are expensive and the 1TB SSD has space for both. I've run Bootcamp this way for years, and have never had an issue until upgrading to APFS / Mojave.

I had read that 'systemsetup' is the preferred replacement for bless, though looking again, that only seems to support EFI booting, and therefore on newer machines than my cMP. I would need therefore bless for my legacy Windows install, and if it works, for macOS too. Could you let me know a bless command I can use to set my macOS partition to be seen as bootable?

When I use Get Info in Disk Utility on Macintosh HD and BOOTCAMP, both show as Bootable: No. In addition, I can't boot into Recovery Mode now either. The partition is still there - if I run diskutil list - but presumably that's not seen as bootable either. Since restoring from Time Machine, it seems nothing has been 'blessed'.

 

[PianoPro]

Hi PianoPro, thanks for the response. Win10 is definitely installed in legacy mode. When I run "bless --info --getBoot --verbose 2>&1 | grep -i legacy" after previously selecting Win10 in Startup Disk, Terminal gives a few "Legacy mode supported" and then "Matching legacy device 'disk0s3'".

The reason I run both off the same SSD is that SSDs are expensive and the 1TB SSD has space for both. I've run Bootcamp this way for years, and have never had an issue until upgrading to APFS / Mojave.

I had read that 'systemsetup' is the preferred replacement for bless, though looking again, that only seems to support EFI booting, and therefore on newer machines than my cMP. I would need therefore bless for my legacy Windows install, and if it works, for macOS too. Could you let me know a bless command I can use to set my macOS partition to be seen as bootable?

When I use Get Info in Disk Utility on Macintosh HD and BOOTCAMP, both show as Bootable: No. In addition, I can't boot into Recovery Mode now either. The partition is still there - if I run diskutil list - but presumably that's not seen as bootable either. Since restoring from Time Machine, it seems nothing has been 'blessed'.

You are trying to boot/run Mac OS and Win10 legacy-BIOS off the same APFS/Mojave disk on a cMP, and I don't know if that is even supported on new Macs. I don't have solutions. If someone else has that working maybe they can help.

 

[mode11]

Success! In the end I reinstalled 10.14.1 by re-downloading the 6GB installer via the App Store (which actuallly comes down via Software Update). This restored the boot-ability of not just macOS - but Bootcamp as well. Should have thought of this before - forgot you can reinstall macOS without having to wipe the disk and start from scratch. Only thought of it whilst wondering how the heck I would reinstate my Restore Partition, to be able to disable SIP, to run the systemsetup commands via Terminal!

Now the Mojave install has been restored via Time Machine, with the Mojave system reinstalled on top of that, and the Bootcamp panel 6,1 installed, I finally have a quick-booting setup that lets me bounce between macOS and Windows. Just in time for the Christmas break, with an RX 580 (and a pair of x5680s) in the post.

Without being able to use the boot selection screen, the macOS Startup Disk pane or the Boot Camp software, using a non-Mac EFI GPU would have been pain to say the least.

 

[PianoPro]

Success! In the end I reinstalled 10.14.1 by re-downloading the 6GB installer via the App Store (which actuallly comes down via Software Update). This restored the boot-ability of not just macOS - but Bootcamp as well. Should have thought of this before - forgot you can reinstall macOS without having to wipe the disk and start from scratch. Only thought of it whilst wondering how the heck I would reinstate my Restore Partition, to be able to disable SIP, to run the systemsetup commands via Terminal!

Now the Mojave install has been restored via Time Machine, with the Mojave system reinstalled on top of that, and the Bootcamp panel 6,1 installed, I finally have a quick-booting setup that lets me bounce between macOS and Windows. Just in time for the Christmas break, with an RX 580 (and a pair of x5680s) in the post.

Without being able to use the boot selection screen, the macOS Startup Disk pane or the Boot Camp software, using a non-Mac EFI GPU would have been pain to say the least.

Congrats for hanging in there and getting it to work!!! So it is possible to run Mac OS and Win 10 legacy-BIOS on the same APFS SSD on cMP. Good to know!

 

[zozomester]

This week I bought two Toshiba XG5 NVME SSD drives. I put Mojave on one and Windoes 10 on the other. I reset the Mojave from a backup. They succeeded. It works. I've been running Windows 10 in the usual way and can not boot from Mojave. I Probably with Terminal Command: (sudo bless -device / dev / diskXsX -mount / volumes / BOOTCAMP -setBoot -nextonly). Don't work!
So far, AHCI has gone with the Terminal command. Unfortunately, I can not even do that now. You will not boot unless you have Bootscreen and I press the ALT key. Why can not I boot from OSX?
Thank!

 

[zozomester]

My system is my signature....
How do I boot from Mojave to boot into Windows 10 without bootscreen?
Thank!

 

[Maxx1987]

Hi,

I have a MP5,1 with firmware 140.0.0.0 and Mojave 10.14.1 installed (Radeon R9 280x Graphics card) on it on an Intel NMVE SSD, which works perfectly.
I want to install Win 10 Pro on a 840 Pro, installed using a PCI-e to SATA adapter.
When I try to install Windows using h9826790 tutorial, the installer keeps complaining the disk needs to be formatted in GPT for EFI systems. I burned the latest Win 10 official ISO of Microsoft on a DVD but for some reason it's not doing legacy install? Does the 840 Pro needs to be installed via the SATA cable instead of the PCI-e to SATA adapter or is the something else wrong?

 

[h9826790]

Hi,

I have a MP5,1 with firmware 140.0.0.0 and Mojave 10.14.1 installed (Radeon R9 280x Graphics card) on it on an Intel NMVE SSD, which works perfectly.
I want to install Win 10 Pro on a 840 Pro, installed using a PCI-e to SATA adapter.
When I try to install Windows using h9826790 tutorial, the installer keeps complaining the disk needs to be formatted in GPT for EFI systems. I burned the latest Win 10 official ISO of Microsoft on a DVD but for some reason it's not doing legacy install? Does the 840 Pro needs to be installed via the SATA cable instead of the PCI-e to SATA adapter or is the something else wrong?

I never really try the latest 1809 ISO, but if doesn't work, try 1803 or earlier version.

840 Pro does NOT require EFI mode.

Windows can NOT be on any "external" drive natively. And any hard drive on PCIe card is considered external.

If you want Windows on PCIe SATA III card, you have to google how to install Windows on external drive.

 

[Maxx1987]

I never really try the latest 1809 ISO, but if doesn't work, try 1803 or earlier version.

840 Pro does NOT require EFI mode.

Windows can NOT be on any "external" drive natively. And any hard drive on PCIe card is considered external.

If you want Windows on PCIe SATA III card, you have to google how to install Windows on external drive.

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately the Windows installer, older version, still doesn't format the drive in two partitions (legacy) but in four (UEFI). The 840 Pro is now connected via the SATA cable of for the second superdrive.

Any suggestions?

EDIT:

When I try to boot from the DVD when holding C I only get a black screen, nothing more. When I hold ALT and the DVD shows up I see two options, Windows and EFI boot, only the EFI boot works, the Windows gives the black screen. I guess when I choose the EFI boot I don't get the legacy installer. How do I get the legacy installer to install Windows 10? (the version is from 07-2017 BTW). Also am I using the original 5770 graphics card for installing windows of course .

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately the Windows installer, older version, still doesn't format the drive in two partitions (legacy) but in four (UEFI). The 840 Pro is now connected via the SATA cable of for the second superdrive.

Any suggestions?

EDIT:

When I try to boot from the DVD when holding C I only get a black screen, nothing more. When I hold ALT and the DVD shows up I see two options, Windows and EFI boot, only the EFI boot works, the Windows gives the black screen. I guess when I choose the EFI boot I don't get the legacy installer. How do I get the legacy installer to install Windows 10? (the version is from 07-2017 BTW). Also am I using the original 5770 graphics card for installing windows of course .

Choose EFI is the problem. Once you choose EFI, you were choosing to install Windows in EFI mode, and the drive will be formatted to fit EFI mode accordingly.

Do you have any other graphic card can try? I expect the stock 5770 can work, but I never try that.

Also, remove all other unrelated hard drives may help. (and safer anyway)

How long did you wait when hold "C" to boot?

Did you check if the Caps lock key is working? (e.g. the computer still respond to your input)

Which monitor you are using? Any other monitor / different display cable connection can try?

 

[zozomester]

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately the Windows installer, older version, still doesn't format the drive in two partitions (legacy) but in four (UEFI). The 840 Pro is now connected via the SATA cable of for the second superdrive.

Any suggestions?

EDIT:

When I try to boot from the DVD when holding C I only get a black screen, nothing more. When I hold ALT and the DVD shows up I see two options, Windows and EFI boot, only the EFI boot works, the Windows gives the black screen. I guess when I choose the EFI boot I don't get the legacy installer. How do I get the legacy installer to install Windows 10? (the version is from 07-2017 BTW). Also am I using the original 5770 graphics card for installing windows of course .

I also have the same situation. Pressing the "C" button only has a dark screen. Could Windows 10 (1803) not be good?

 

[bruitmonkey]

Tanks for the tutorial on how to get things done.
A lot of problems for me occured:
I have a dual SATA to PCIe card, Mojave on one SSD and I’m trying to install Windows on the other SSD. Install runs fine, after setup I’m able to boot into Windows but I have a problem installing Bootcamp5 drivers - I get an error saying those are for Windows 7. Tried compatibility mode, they install. After rebooting - black screen, nothing happens, can’t boot.
Should I try to move the Windows SSD to SATA connection? Should I skip the BootCamp5 and install BootCamp6.1 straight away?

 

[h9826790]

Tanks for the tutorial on how to get things done.
A lot of problems for me occured:
I have a dual SATA to PCIe card, Mojave on one SSD and I’m trying to install Windows on the other SSD. Install runs fine, after setup I’m able to boot into Windows but after I install Bootcamp drivers and reboot - black screen, nothing happens, can’t boot.
Should I try to move the Windows SSD to SATA connection? Should I skip the BootCamp5 and install BootCamp6.1 straight away?

My personal suggestion is use the native SATA port.

And you may skip that Bootcamp 5 driver.

 

[Maxx1987]

Choose EFI is the problem. Once you choose EFI, you were choosing to install Windows in EFI mode, and the drive will be formatted to fit EFI mode accordingly.

Do you have any other graphic card can try? I expect the stock 5770 can work, but I never try that.

Also, remove all other unrelated hard drives may help. (and safer anyway)

How long did you wait when hold "C" to boot?

Did you check if the Caps lock key is working? (e.g. the computer still respond to your input)

Which monitor you are using? Any other monitor / different display cable connection can try?

Thought so about the EFI boot.

I only have the R9 280X and the 5770 stock cards, where the stock card has boot screens.

When I boot using C I waited a long time, but nothing happens. The disk spins for a few seconds and the screen goed black, that's it. The computer does not respond to anything, also the Caps lock key doe not work.

I am using a Cinema display with Mini Displayport connected to the stock card, which normally works when booting from the recovery partition or installation drives etc.

Also tried to remove all other drives, but doesn't help.

 

[h9826790]

Thought so about the EFI boot.

I only have the R9 280X and the 5770 stock cards, where the stock card has boot screens.

When I boot using C I waited a long time, but nothing happens. The disk spins for a few seconds and the screen goed black, that's it. The computer does not respond to anything, also the Caps lock key doe not work.

I am using a Cinema display with Mini Displayport connected to the stock card, which normally works when booting from the recovery partition or installation drives etc.

Also tried to remove all other drives, but doesn't help.

The 280X should works well with Windows 10 Legacy mode.

If the Installer doesn't work as expected, try to download the ISO again (check the check sum), and burn another disc.

 

[Maxx1987]

The 280X should works well with Windows 10 Legacy mode.

If the Installer doesn't work as expected, try to download the ISO again (check the check sum), and burn another disc.

Unfortunately the R9 280X isn't an EFI card, so no boot screens.

I tried booting with the R9 280X using C and two different ISO's, the most recent 1803 and one from 2017. So far no luck...

 

[h9826790]

Unfortunately the R9 280X isn't an EFI card, so no boot screens.

I tried booting with the R9 280X using C and two different ISO's, the most recent 1803 and one from 2017. So far no luck...

EFI GPU is not required for this procedures.

And try this way to burn the disc

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ndows-10-install-guide.2158642/#post-26879467

 

[Maxx1987]

EFI GPU is not required for this procedures.

And try this way to burn the disc

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ndows-10-install-guide.2158642/#post-26879467

Thanks will try that, get back to you asap with the results.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks will try that, get back to you asap with the results.

Thanks!

 

[Maxx1987]

Thanks!

Nice it worked!

Had to remove the 4 harddisks though to create the partitions, but after that everything went fine with installing Windows.

Thanks again!

Now the rest of your tut. ;-)

 

[h9826790]

Nice it worked!

Had to remove the 4 harddisks though to create the partitions, but after that everything went fine with installing Windows.

Thanks again!

Now the rest of your tut. ;-)

Thanks for the report back. Now "how to burn a disc properly" (link) is included in the guide.

 

[astonius86]

Has anyone figured out a way to BIOS install Windows 10 on the same physical disk as an existing Mojave install? Here's what I've attempted so far:

1. Partition the disk into the existing APFS container and a FAT32 disk using Disk Utility
2. Use gdisk to convert the disk from GPT to hybrid MBR/GPT:
   1. sudo gdisk /dev/disk0
   2. Enter "p" to see 3 existing GPT partitions: 1) EFI, 2) macOS (APFS), and 3) empty FAT32
   3. Enter "b" to backup existing partition table to a file on a USB drive
   4. Enter "r", "h"
   5. "GPT partitions to add to hybrid MBR" prompt -- entered "2 3" (from step 2)
   6. "Place EFI first in MBR?" prompt -- entered "y"
   7. Partition 2 MBR hex code "af", bootable flag "n"
   8. Partition 3 MBR hex code "0c", bootable flag "y"
   9. "Unused partition space found" prompt -- entered "n"
   10. Enter "w" to write the new partition table, confirm with "y"
   11. Rebooted
   12. Ran "sudo gdisk -l /dev/disk0", confirming MBR is set to "hybrid"
3. Used drutil to burn Windows 10 build 1809 (October 2018) to a dual-layer DVD+R
4. Rebooted holding "c"
5. Proceeded through the Windows 10 installation screens until disk selection screen
6. Deleted the FAT32 partition and created an NTFS partition

At this point it tells me Windows 10 cannot be installed to this disk/partition. When I click to see details I get this message: "Windows cannot be installed to this disk. This computer's hardware may not support booting to this disk. Ensure the disk's controller is enabled in the computer's BIOS menu."

I then tried using DISKPART to convert the disk to MBR which I quickly learned was a boneheaded thing to do. Luckily I had saved a backup of my GPT partitions, so I booted up macOS recovery from a USB drive and restored the partition table with gdisk.

At this point I'm all out of ideas. Anyone have any insight or suggestions?

EDIT: I should probably mention I'm attempting to install this on an AHCI m.2 SSD installed in PCI-E slot 4. Because of this I also tried putting the EFI partition at the end of the MBR partition list (as recommended in the gdisk docs for "external" disks), but it didn't make a difference.

 

[Auggie]

This is my version of "how to do it".

1) Insert the Windows installation DVD into the super drive (How to burn a Windows installation disc properly)

<snip>

Thanks for this write-up!

Unfortunately, it did not work for my particular setup: Apricorn Velocity Duo with hardware RAID of a pair of Samsung 2TB SSDs. I just could not get a proper hybrid MBR established in order to get Windows 10 to install and boot under Legacy BIOS. Boot Camp won't touch the Duo, Disk Utility doesn't create the hybrid even after setting any partition past the first one as either FAT32 or ExFAT, and manually creating a hybrid MBR using GPT and FDISK the APFS partition would always lead to a corrupted Mojave after the Win10 install.

When I get a new 4TB SSD, I will be able to dedicate separate SSDs to Win10 and Mojave and follow this guide.

18 ) type

brigadier -m iMacPro1,1

Just a heads up for those following these steps, it took me several attempts to get a valid download for iMacPro1,1; I would constantly get errors after downloading that a path or file didn't exist. I was just persistent and after the fifth or sixth attempt, it finally worked.

But if you are unsuccessful after repeated attempts, PM me and I can send the packaged drivers as I'm keeping all the downloads in case I have to reinstall Win10 some day.

I was happy to find this tutorial but with Windows10Pro(64 Bit) 1809.17763.134 release maybe some things changed and need to be mentioned.
brigadier will download BootCamp 4 which was the last supported Version for win7 when you choose MacPro 5.1

The portion of your bolded statement that I have italicized regarding the last supported Apple version for Win7 only applies to the 32-bit version as well as the 2008 Mac Pro (MacPro3,1) for either version. For Win7 x64, according to Apple's Compatibility Table listed under Install Windows 7 on your Mac using Boot Camp, the 2010 Mac Pro (MacPro5,1) uses version 5.1.5621. Although the 2012 Mac Pro (also, MacPro5,1) is not listed under that Windows 7 table (it's listed under the Use Windows 8.1 on your Mac with Boot Camp, Boot Camp Drivers v5.1.5621 successfully install on my 2012 Mac Pro under Windows 7 Ultimate x64.

With that said, since you've raised the issue of the version downloaded by Brigadier and I didn't want to root around determining the version, I manually downloaded and installed Boot Camp 5.1.5621 for my Win10 Pro x64 install, thereby skipping steps 14-17 and 20-23.

After step 24 Your system will get destroyed after booting it will crash after AppleHFS.sys is loaded
usually max 20 sec after log in. You will not be able to do anything after log in...BSOD
That's why you need to rename or delete in
c:/windows/system32/drivers AppleHFS.sys
BEFORE REBOOTING...

This refers to all BootCamp Versions which are installed on Windows 1511 above
Starting with the anniversary update 1607 BootCamp versions below 6.1.xxxx will produce BSOD

Thanks for the heads up! I never knew about this issue, but this probably also applies to Windows 7 SP1 because I always get the BSOD whenever I try to do any file operations beyond simple navigation on an HFS+ volume.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for this write-up!

Unfortunately, it did not work for my particular setup: Apricorn Velocity Duo with hardware RAID of a pair of Samsung 2TB SSDs. I just could not get a proper hybrid MBR established in order to get Windows 10 to install and boot under Legacy BIOS. Boot Camp won't touch the Duo, Disk Utility doesn't create the hybrid even after setting any partition past the first one as either FAT32 or ExFAT, and manually creating a hybrid MBR using GPT and FDISK the APFS partition would always lead to a corrupted Mojave after the Win10 install.

When I get a new 4TB SSD, I will be able to dedicate separate SSDs to Win10 and Mojave and follow this guide.




Just a heads up for those following these steps, it took me several attempts to get a valid download for iMacPro1,1; I would constantly get errors after downloading that a path or file didn't exist. I was just persistent and after the fifth or sixth attempt, it finally worked.

But if you are unsuccessful after repeated attempts, PM me and I can send the packaged drivers as I'm keeping all the downloads in case I have to reinstall Win10 some day.



The portion of your bolded statement that I have italicized regarding the last supported Apple version for Win7 only applies to the 32-bit version as well as the 2008 Mac Pro (MacPro3,1) for either version. For Win7 x64, according to Apple's Compatibility Table listed under Install Windows 7 on your Mac using Boot Camp, the 2010 Mac Pro (MacPro5,1) uses version 5.1.5621. Although the 2012 Mac Pro (also, MacPro5,1) is not listed under that Windows 7 table (it's listed under the Use Windows 8.1 on your Mac with Boot Camp, Boot Camp Drivers v5.1.5621 successfully install on my 2012 Mac Pro under Windows 7 Ultimate x64.

With that said, since you've raised the issue of the version downloaded by Brigadier and I didn't want to root around determining the version, I manually downloaded and installed Boot Camp 5.1.5621 for my Win10 Pro x64 install, thereby skipping steps 14-17 and 20-23.



Thanks for the heads up! I never knew about this issue, but this probably also applies to Windows 7 SP1 because I always get the BSOD whenever I try to do any file operations beyond simple navigation on an HFS+ volume.

Windows cannot not be installed on external drive natively. And your setup is considered "External".

May be you want better sequential speed, therefore RAID the SSD together, and then partition the RAID again into 2 partitions (or more) for Windows and macOS. TBH, this is pretty much asking for trouble but provide little to no benefit in most real world usage.

You better use only one SSD for Mojave, and the other one for Windows.

 

[Auggie]

Windows cannot not be installed on external drive natively. And your setup is considered "External".

May be you want better sequential speed, therefore RAID the SSD together, and then partition the RAID again into 2 partitions (or more) for Windows and macOS. TBH, this is pretty much asking for trouble but provide little to no benefit in most real world usage.

You better use only one SSD for Mojave, and the other one for Windows.

I only RAID'd these pair of 2TB SSD's because several years ago when I had outgrown the one 2TB SSD I had for OS X at the time, a 4TB SSD was just cost prohibitive ($1,600+). Since I didn't need a full 4TB just for OS X, it was cheaper to buy another 2TB, RAID it, then partition a 3TB for OS X which allowed a 1TB for Win10 via UEFI; RAIDing was never about performance. This seemed to work well for my needs as far as I knew.

But after finding the x509 issues that tsialex reported and was able to fix, I decided to switch to Legacy BIOS and this is where I discovered it just won't work with the Duo.

Now that 4TB SSDs have come gone significantly in price, that will be next step in my quest for Win10 Legacy BIOS on SSD.