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How to: Boot Camp without a Boot Screen

And so the story continues.....
So after pressing the "Finish" button from the Bootcamp installer I'm told the computer will reboot, so I allow that.
5_reboot after installation.PNG


After rebooting back into Windows I notice an additional program inside the "Start" menu: Apple Software Update.
So something must have gone right, but then this message pops up:
6_apple updater error.PNG


I don't know what this means, so I choose "Check online for a solution and close the program", but the error message reappears. I also try clicking on "Apple software update" which appears to start looking for updates, but the same error message comes up again.

So, a few error messages during the installation....
suggestions/comments anyone?
 
toke lahti said:
When you give some advice on formatting a drive, you might also want to tell what partition scheme you used?
Click to expand...

I believe it was "ExFAT" that I used. Note that this isn't to prepare the disk for Windows (I believe they use NTFS which isn't an option in Disk Utility anyway), but rather to make the drive recognizable within the Windows installer.
That installer will later take care of the actual formatting, doing it the right way.

(within MacOS) do this:
  • open Disk Utility
  • select the drive you want to install Windows on (don't make any mistakes here!)
  • press the "Erase" button, a new window with several options comes up:
    • Enter a unique name for the drive (so you can easily recognize it again when you're in the Windows installer
    • Choose "ExFAT" as the format, and "Master Boot Record" as the scheme
    • Press the "Erase" button to perform the task
Screen Shot 2023-02-14 at 22.05.36.png


So when that's done you can follow the abovementioned guide (link found in a couple of postings back) where you boot from the Windows installer-DVD and so on, and just look for a drive named "windoooooze" to erase/format.
 
Can someone make sense of all this and tell me what to expect after having installed it all?
My understanding is that the Apple related software (which is usually a part of the Bootcamp installation) is installed using the process described earlier, using the Brigadier Windows app, but like I said, the Apple Software Update app (found in the Windows "Start" menu) doesn't work, and I have no idea where the rest of the Apple related software should be found (I've searched in all control panels etc.). Shouldn't there be an option for rebooting back into MacOS again?
7 Apple software update error2.PNG


And what about the error messages during the installation (KeyAgent and Mac HAL), posted in my previous posting? Obviously something hasn't been installed, but I don't know how to fix it.

Has anyone successfully installed all this?
 
Last edited:
I give up!
How do I remove everything Brigadier installed?
Apple has this Bootcamp support software 5.0.5033 available for download.
According to the instructions it says:

This download contains the Windows Support Software (Windows Drivers)you need to support 64 bit versions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 on your Mac.
For more information on which operating systems are supported on different Mac systems, click here. : http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5634
Click to expand...

Has anyone tried it? It seems like it does more or less the same thing as I attempted to do with Brigadier.
 
macstatic said:
I give up!
How do I remove everything Brigadier installed?
Apple has this Bootcamp support software 5.0.5033 available for download.
According to the instructions it says:



Has anyone tried it? It seems like it does more or less the same thing as I attempted to do with Brigadier.
Click to expand...
That's not for pre 2013 Mac Pro. I doubt if you can actually make it works. But please try it and report back.
 
macstatic said:
I give up!
How do I remove everything Brigadier installed?
Apple has this Bootcamp support software 5.0.5033 available for download.
According to the instructions it says:



Has anyone tried it? It seems like it does more or less the same thing as I attempted to do with Brigadier.
Click to expand...
Apple’s bootcamp is for a scenario where you install windows to a same disk where you macos is, just to another partition.

I’ve done this with my MP4,1 to another disk, when os’es are totally independent of each other.
Key thing in that is to make ”classic” or ”dvd” or ”MBR” installation, where it is paramount that your PARTITION sheme is MBR. At least with cMP, which can’t boot from GPT drive to windows, since cMP does not have modern standard EFI.
But my MP is offline and away for me now, so I can’t check the details and the installation was done over a year ago and I didn’t make notes about it, so my memories are human.

Are you sure you picked the right mac model in Brigadier?

You could always install first macos to that drive you want windows to be, boot from it and install windows to it in a ”supported” way, without Brigadier.
 
Last edited:
toke lahti said:
Apple’s bootcamp is for a scenario where you install windows to a same disk where you macos is, just to another partition.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've always found that a little risky to do.


toke lahti said:
I’ve done this with my MP4,1 to another disk, when os’es are totally independent of each other.
Key thing in that is to make ”classic” or ”dvd” or ”MBR” installation, where it is paramount that your PARTITION sheme is MBR. At least with cMP, which can’t boot from GPT drive to windows, since cMP does not have modern standard EFI.
Click to expand...

You mean you've used Bootcamp Assistant to create a Windows partition, but on a completely different drive than the one you usually use?
I'm not sure I understood what you meant about having the partition scheme as MBR (Master Boot Record?), and at which stage all this comes in.
Isn't it just a matter of installing some version of MacOS on a separate hard drive (and the installer takes care of providing the right format etc.), and when done you boot into it, run Bootcamp Assistant and have it install a new partition along with Windows on it -all on the same drive?


toke lahti said:
But my MP is offline and away for me now, so I can’t check the details and the installation was done over a year ago and I didn’t make notes about it, so my memories are human.

Are you sure you picked the right mac model in Brigadier?
Click to expand...

I belive so -I followed the guide in this thread exactly.


toke lahti said:
You could always install first macos to that drive you want windows to be, boot from it and install windows to it in a ”supported” way, without Brigadier.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea! Actually I think I have to do this as somehow messed up my Windows drive. This happened after installing the Bootcamp support software 5.0.5033 as instructed in its documentation, using a USB flash drive. When I now try to boot into Windows I get a "blue screen of death" with some cryptic error messages followed by a "Launch startup repair" option (which didn't succeed in repairing the problems).

Since my main OS now is 10.13.6 (High Sierra) I think I'll install 10.9 (Mavericks) on that (physically separate) hard drive (different MacOS version to avoid confusion), and when done I'll just run Bootcamp Assistant from MacOS 10.9 and install Windows 7 the standard way. I hope that should work without any issues.

Apparently, MacOS 10.13.6 won't allow me to run the MacOS 10.9.4 installer, so I believe I have to create a USB installer from it, and boot from that USB flash drive.
Screen Shot 2023-02-20 at 08.39.57.png


Nothing's supposed to be easy, right?

One question about a setup like this (a separate drive with MacOS 10.9 and Windows 7 partitions). When I reboot from Windows back into MacOS (I believe Bootcamp will install a "choose startup disk" utility), will I be able to boot back into MacOS 10.13.6, or will it only allow me to boot into the MacOS as on the same hard drive as Windows?

In other words: I won't actually be using MacOS 10.9, so when I reboot I want to be using either Windows 7 or MacOS 10.13.6.
 
h9826790 said:
That's not for pre 2013 Mac Pro. I doubt if you can actually make it works. But please try it and report back.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I noticed the first link on that Bootcamp support software 5.0.5033 page refers to "Installing Windows 10 with Bootcamp assistant" (which of course must be wrong as the text it's for Windows 7 and Windows 8:

This download contains the Windows Support Software (Windows Drivers)you need to support 64 bit versions of Windows 7 and Windows 8 on your Mac.
For more information on which operating systems are supported on different Mac systems, click here. : http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5634
Click to expand...

The next link however refers to installing Windows 8.1
For detailed information about this update, please visit: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5628
Click to expand...

Regardless, it didn't work for me and has made my Windows 7 unusable, so I'll have to reinstall it. Luckily I knew (from experience) that Windows is unstable, so I've taken care to always copy my work-files (while reflashing the HD-7950 GPU) over to a flash drive, then copied over to the Mac side.

UPDATE: I have now created a bootable USB-installer of 10.9.4 Mavericks using the following Terminal command (after having put the installer file inside the /Applications/ folder). Note "USBdrive" below is the name of the USB flash-drive):

Code: 
sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Mavericks.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/USBdrive --applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ Mavericks.app --nointeraction

The above commands worked fine. The USB flash drive now has the name "Install OS X Mavericks" and contains the actual installer, but if I go to System preferences-Startup disk it doesn't show up as expected.
Obviously, with a GPU card (HD-7950) which doesn't yet have a Mac bootscreen I can't hold down ALT while booting to select this USB flash drive.
 
Last edited:
macstatic said:
You mean you've used Bootcamp Assistant to create a Windows partition, but on a completely different drive than the one you usually use?
I'm not sure I understood what you meant about having the partition scheme as MBR (Master Boot Record?), and at which stage all this comes in.
Isn't it just a matter of installing some version of MacOS on a separate hard drive (and the installer takes care of providing the right format etc.), and when done you boot into it, run Bootcamp Assistant and have it install a new partition along with Windows on it -all on the same drive?
Click to expand...
I guess it would be helpful to you to educate yourself what "partition format" and "disk format" means, since you are using them. Etc. from wikipedia.
1676903562414.png


And maybe you should check if your windows drive still is MBR and not formatted to GPT ("GUID Partition Table").
"Partition format" defines how partitions are handled in one physical drive. Then each partitions can have different filesystems and even multiple volumes. It is a bit confusing, but think if you have 2 parititions in one physical disk. One is exFAT and the other FAT32. There has to be a system, which tells the computer what partitions the physical disk has and where they are located. "Disk format" ie. filesystem has only info about itself ie. one partition.

I did not use "bootcamp assistant" since, IIRC, you cannot use it to install windows on a separate drive.
And I really didn't want mess up my macos bootdrive, which also does not have room for windows.

I's suggest that you first get yourself a gpu which will give you boot screen and then try again.
Option to use option key is quite handy many times.

Why do you want to install 10.9?

Do you have a bootable macos system now?
From there you can install any (supported) macos version to ANOTHER (other macs: external, cMP: external or other internal) DISK. No need to install from usb sticks, if that is causing trouble. Also 10 year old article doesn't necessary tell correctly how to do things with newer os'es.

Btw, what cMP you have?
 
Last edited:
Well, I sort of have a working Windows setup now.
My cMP is a 5,1.
You gave me an idea (or maybe I misunderstood you) in a few postings back: to do a fresh install of a MacOS on a separate drive, then use Bootcamp there, the way it's supposed to be -to create a Windows partition on that same drive.
No, I don't have to use MacOS 10.9, but I was thinking about some older software that I need to use, but thinking about it it's another story and I'm going to investigate if I can use that in a virtual machine type setup, ...later.

Anyway I ended up doing a reboot in recovery mode (hold CMD-R while booting) which allowed me to create a brand new MacOS 10.13 High Sierra on that separate drive (I realized that in addition to the MacOS version you can also see the startup drive's name when going to System preferences-Startup drive).
When that was done I booted into that drive's MacoS 10.13 High Sierra and ran Bootcamp Assistant along with a Windows 7 installation DVD and a newly (FAT) formatted USB flash drive as instructed in Bootcamp. Everything fine so far. The computer rebooted into the Windows installer and when I got to the part which shows the various drives (where to install Windows?) I chose the "BOOTCAMP" drive followed by "Format". This resulted in an error message:
Windows is unable to install to the selection location. Error: 0x80300024

I looked this error message up online but couldn't find any clear explanation. But from one forum discussion I gathered that I should remove any unnecessary drives, so I powered off the Mac, removed all drives but the new one (with the new MacOS 10.13 along with Bootcamp), restarted and continued with the Windows installation. This time it worked and I booted fine into Windows.

Using it is another issue.... even just installing the Windows drivers for my HD-7950 was a pain. Constant complaints about permissions and unsigned files etc. I think I tried it 5 times before succeeding. There's a reason why I never went for PCs ;)

Now I have a new problem: a blue screen of death when booting into Windows with this error message:
IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

So I got thinking back to the installation (formatting) problems... hmmm.
Could it be that by removing all other drives the system refuses to start with my normal configuration? So I powered down, removed all other drives, rebooted and it worked.
What a pain! So now I have a cumbersome, but working system -hopefully I can sort out the GPU firmware stuff and reflash the card for getting a Mac EFI bootscreen, then forget about Windows :)

I think if I need to have Windows again I'll just install it on its own (on a separate drive without MacOS/Bootcamp) as I did last time, and without Brigadier or other attempts to install the Bootcamp add-ons. I'll settle with having to do a PRAM reset (CMD-ALT-P-R while booting) to get back into MacOS.
 
toke lahti said:
Apple’s bootcamp is for a scenario where you install windows to a same disk where you macos is, just to another partition.
Click to expand...

After having installed MacOS 10.13 High Sierra on the separate drive, then running Bootcamp Assistant to add Windows to the same physical drive I found something interesting which I can't remember having seen before (the second option):
Screen Shot 2023-02-20 at 15.53.26.png

Obviously I didn't want to erase my normal boot drive, and I don't think it would allow me to erase the same drive I booted from ("test"), but this would be interesting to try out some time and see if it would actually install all the Bootcamp stuff in addition to having Windows on a separate drive.

Also, would it allow for formatting within the Windows installer without any error message (0x80300024)?
Strangely I no longer have the "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" blue screen error message upon booting into Windows, and I've re-inserted all but one physical drives. I'll see if it still works if I insert the last one as well.
Windows is a mystery. I've never liked it, but sometimes a necessity. At least now I have a Mac EFI bootscreen with that new GPU I installed :)


toke lahti said:
With cMP, it is pretty easy to control which system it will boot: just remove the disk you don't want to boot from.
(I just hate having all drives external...)
Click to expand...

Yes, me too. That's one of the best things with the cMP -to have everything in one box with a single on/off button, and removing drives doesn't involve screws and connection cables.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: toke lahti
Was that the newest Bootcamp version?

Maybe finally there's too many complaints that users are running out of space in the soldered internal drive, so installing to another drive is needed.
Poor... that option is for the only Mac, that by default has more than one physical storage.

Wasn't it so that even if Mac Studio has 2 slots for ssd's, you can't order it with two logically separate drives?
 
I used this thread several years ago in 2020 when I got my 1st Mac Pro 5,1 to set up a dual boot Mojave/Win10 system. It has worked perfectly allowing startup disc selection in Mac OS and the boot camp switch to boot to Mac OS for years. My son's 5,1 had its backplane die. I swapped my tower with his (both 2010/2012) and ordered a used backplane. I finally got the systems boot from updated to .144 but my windows drive doesn't show properly or at all for that matter. Mind you, I can pull the Mac os Sled and leave the Win10 one and swap that way, but I was wondering what version of opencore began the change to need Windows installed differently.
Got the swap done and all is mostly functional, except now my OpenCore boot picker cannot see my Windows SSD as it used to. I also cannot select the windows drive as the startup disc anymore when rebooting from MacOS. I have read enough to see that Windows installs are different now. I remember when I installed Win10 I had to use a DVD as other methods wreaked havoc on the bootRom, installed problematic certificates, etc.
Now, it seems that has changed for the better.
However, I cannot figure out how to get back to where I was. I don't want to reinstall windows and lose my SSD contents, win license, etc. Is there something easy I'm overlooking? Thank you for taking the time to read in any case. This forum is great. :)
 
kitcostantino said:
I used this thread several years ago in 2020 when I got my 1st Mac Pro 5,1 to set up a dual boot Mojave/Win10 system. It has worked perfectly allowing startup disc selection in Mac OS and the boot camp switch to boot to Mac OS for years. My son's 5,1 had its backplane die. I swapped my tower with his (both 2010/2012) and ordered a used backplane. I finally got the systems boot from updated to .144 but my windows drive doesn't show properly or at all for that matter. Mind you, I can pull the Mac os Sled and leave the Win10 one and swap that way, but I was wondering what version of opencore began the change to need Windows installed differently.
Got the swap done and all is mostly functional, except now my OpenCore boot picker cannot see my Windows SSD as it used to. I also cannot select the windows drive as the startup disc anymore when rebooting from MacOS. I have read enough to see that Windows installs are different now. I remember when I installed Win10 I had to use a DVD as other methods wreaked havoc on the bootRom, installed problematic certificates, etc.
Now, it seems that has changed for the better.
However, I cannot figure out how to get back to where I was. I don't want to reinstall windows and lose my SSD contents, win license, etc. Is there something easy I'm overlooking? Thank you for taking the time to read in any case. This forum is great. :)
Click to expand...
OCLP picker con only show UEFI windows installatons. Press alt before OCLP picjer loads, taht is, at startup, an see what happens. Onviously , if its a new pane nd your wiindowa ia UEFI, the values will not be at the ROM.
 
I realized that. I'm actually not using Legacy Patcher. I did this years before that existed using
Martins Open Core package. Back when installing Windows directly was a bad thing. Now, as cool as it is that it works like that now, I can't get back to where I was. And I cannot confirm what open core package my system was on. Tried the new one, but as you know, that type of windows install is not supported.
 
I believe I set up windows using MLOC ..56 package originally . I updated somewhere in the 60's or 70's versions with no issues. Has there been a change in how windows has to be installed (I e.- back in 2020 I installed with a USB using a video and Brigadier .
)
Even after I had updated, everything worked and windows and Mac os allowed me to boot from one to the other. On boot, I had the nice blacked out bootpicker. Now, I don't see windows in my list of boot options. However, I am on a replacement backplane. Everything else is the same. I still have my brigadier drive attached. However, the windows drive does not show. Booting from MacOS into windows via choosing startup drive also does not work. For now, I just have to pull whichever drive I'm not trying to boot. Is there a difference in how windows must be installed for all MLOC packages?
OCLP reads like it is different and would require me to do a new fresh install of windows, but I'm not 100% on that.
 
Last edited:
kitcostantino said:
OCLP reads like it is different and would require me to do a new fresh install of windows, but I'm not 100% on that.
Click to expand...

OCLP recently removed support from the OCLP BootPicker for CSM/BIOS Windows installs, maybe a bug or unintended consequence.


You can always bypass the OCLP BootPicker and boot BootCamp/CSM/BIOS Windows installs directly via Apple native BootPicker (see EnableGop thread).
 
  • Like
Reactions: kitcostantino and 0134168
Hi all,

Trying to get Win 10 on a 5,1 using this tutorial (tried last year with different guides but stopped after 10 days of not getting anywhere)

Classic Mac Pro (5,1): installing Windows 10, switching between macOS Mojave & Windows without boot screen - CrystalIDEA Blog

crystalidea.com crystalidea.com

Which directs me to the tread were in and i have a question.

When i use brigadier -m iMacPro1,1

It doesn't create the folder BootCamp-041-55643

But creates: BootCamp-041-84868

When i run the next step and try to run

msiexec /i BootCamp-041-55643\Bootcamp\Drivers\Apple\bootcamp.msi

It doesn't work.

I'll try it again in a minute to get the error code.

Also will search to get brigadier spit out BootCamp-041-55643

But in the meantime maybe somebody knows what to do differently so it will work.

Thank you!
 
Got it working. Kind off. I just used the setup file from BootCamp-041-84868

Also there is no bootcamp folder in that folder so the msiexec /i BootCamp etc didn't work because of the correct path.

And before you can use msiexec /i i needed to be in the right path in command console.

Which is normal but not included in the guide.

I can't use apple software update in windows nor restart windows in mac trough start up disk.

I know a guy on youtube which only used a windows 7 dvd and booted from that but no clear explanation.

Haven't tested much only run all updates, pit my rx 580 in and apple 5770 out and installed drivers.

50 GB for just a windows install with AMD 580 drivers and some bootcamp stuff sounds way too much to me but not a windows expert.

Oh and my bootpicker sees 3 windows legacy partitions on start up but only the first works.

Will read this guide again and see if i can try on a new ssd. But later.
 
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