How to break out of Apple's waiting hell?

[hajime]

That should do. Just make sure you get Apple Care.
The replacement-policy is - AFAIK - something that is often handled on a store-by-store basis.
But that may have changed since I read reports about this.

I think this should do well. I'd get one of those Radware keyboard-covers and never, ever eat in front of it ;-)

Is Radware better than Moshi? Moshi was good for pre-butterfly keyboards.

 

[diamornte]

They probably are holding out on announcing because they have to offload all that extra 2017 inventory? I can't stand this wait either and all my render times are hideous on a late 2013 mbp.

 

[hajime]

I am near Apple Store now. Hesitate to pull the trigger knowing that the keyboard will fail.

 

[MRrainer]

Is Radware better than Moshi? Moshi was good for pre-butterfly keyboards.

I don't know. When we got our 12" MB at work (2016 model), I asked around and somebody said "Radware".
Didn't know how to search for such a thing. I meant to replace the sheet of paper that comes with it when you open it up the first time.

It cost as much to ship here as the item itself cost ;-)
[doublepost=1529694042][/doublepost]

They probably are holding out on announcing because they have to offload all that extra 2017 inventory? I can't stand this wait either and all my render times are hideous on a late 2013 mbp.

It wouldn't surprise me if it took another couple of weeks.

Thermal problems on other vendors' 8th-generation notebooks speak for themselves.

Also, as Intel is under pressure from AMD we can expect more bugs in silicon and microcode that need micro-code updates and OS fixes.

We get faster CPUs and GPUs, yes - but at what price?

Not even do we get banana-software, we now also get banana-hardware.

I only have anecdotal evidence from watching a YT video, but I think the 2017 MBPs are pretty solid on all other accounts (ignoring the keyboard issues for the sake of argument).
Reviewers commended them for their superior thermal resiliency compared to previous models.
[doublepost=1529694079][/doublepost]

I am near Apple Store now. Hesitate to pull the trigger knowing that the keyboard will fail.

It will not fail automatically. That assumption is not fair IMO.

 

[hajime]

So even it is a hassle to make it triple boot and move all the stuff from three OS to the mbp 2017 for testing, it is still worth because the NBP 2017 has better thermal?

 

[MRrainer]

Better than 2016, AFAIK.
There's an AppleInsider article that mentions as much, but I can't find the video where somebody else made a lot of tests.
Ah, YT....

AppleInsider says that the thermal management is much better and the CPU and GPU don't have to throttle at all - or at least much later than on the 2016 models (so your intensive task may be over already).

 

[hajime]

I was in the same building as Apple Store but got chickened out. If I buy any 2017 MBP, I will buy a Caligit TS3+ dock. If I buy a 2015 MBP, I will not need a dock but it is heavier than those 2017 MBP. How much faster is charging on the 2017 MBP compared with the 2015 MBP currently sold by Apple?

 

[maflynn]

Go with the 2015, that will tie you over for a few years and then some of the keyboard issues will be behind everyone. By buying a used or older machine you buy yourself time to decide what exactly you want.

 

[hajime]

Go with the 2015, that will tie you over for a few years and then some of the keyboard issues will be behind everyone. By buying a used or older machine you buy yourself time to decide what exactly you want.

I considered that but the 13" 2017 is noticeably lighter. If I buy 15" version, 2015 would be better given the keyboard and the cost.

Given Apple usually keeps parts for 5 years, it means that in two years, they will have no parts to repair the MBP 2015?

 

[travelsheep]

I'm still very happy with my MacBook Air 2011. USB 2.1 is a bit slow I have to admit, this is a bit annoying. Also bluetooth is a bit slow, and WIFI is also maxxed out at 50 mbit/s. But other than that, it's just running really nicely!

In order to spend EUR 2500+ for a new MacBook it needs to be really a lot better. A LOT. Plus I'm still not sure how to deal with the Adobe problem when upgrading (still happily on CS 4, no monthly costs). Maybe I'll go the virtual machine route. But as I said: in order to make that change a new MacBook has to be REALLY a lot better. And that's not the case yet.

 

[poorcody]

Most of the keyboards do not fail. It is more than previous versions, but it is still a fairly small minority (like 12%). I have a 2016 15" Touchbar model that I've used almost seven days a week for 18 months and I've had no keyboard problems. It's the best computer I have ever had, hands-down.

Also you say you don't want to use virtualization to run Linux and such, but running Linux under Parallels or similar on a 2017 MBP is going to be faster than it was on your 2010 MacBook... Parallels makes running Windows and Linux painless on a Mac.

I will also add that since you are a power-user, if you start programming macros for the Touchbar, you may actually find it quite useful...

 

[MRrainer]

I considered that but the 13" 2017 is noticeably lighter. If I buy 15" version, 2015 would be better given the keyboard and the cost.

Given Apple usually keeps parts for 5 years, it means that in two years, they will have no parts to repair the MBP 2015?

They keep them for 5 years after they stop selling them.
The 2015 is still available on apple.com
It will be some time before it's declared vintage.

 

[hajime]

Most of the keyboards do not fail. It is more than previous versions, but it is still a fairly small minority (like 12%). I have a 2016 15" Touchbar model that I've used almost seven days a week for 18 months and I've had no keyboard problems. It's the best computer I have ever had, hands-down.

Also you say you don't want to use virtualization to run Linux and such, but running Linux under Parallels or similar on a 2017 MBP is going to be faster than it was on your 2010 MacBook... Parallels makes running Windows and Linux painless on a Mac.

I will also add that since you are a power-user, if you start programming macros for the Touchbar, you may actually find it quite useful...

The info I have seem to be that under Linux, Wi-Fi works for 13” 2017 but not the 15”.

 

[hajime]

They keep them for 5 years after they stop selling them.
The 2015 is still available on apple.com
It will be some time before it's declared vintage.

So the 5 years counting starts AFTER Apple stops selling the 15" 2015 which we don't know when?

Do you mean even I buy the 15" 2015 model from Apple now, there will be at least 5 years before apple not to keep the stock of the parts for repairing?
[doublepost=1529841097][/doublepost]

I don't know. When we got our 12" MB at work (2016 model), I asked around and somebody said "Radware".
Didn't know how to search for such a thing. I meant to replace the sheet of paper that comes with it when you open it up the first time.

It cost as much to ship here as the item itself cost ;-)
[doublepost=1529694042][/doublepost]

It wouldn't surprise me if it took another couple of weeks.

Thermal problems on other vendors' 8th-generation notebooks speak for themselves.

Also, as Intel is under pressure from AMD we can expect more bugs in silicon and microcode that need micro-code updates and OS fixes.

We get faster CPUs and GPUs, yes - but at what price?

Not even do we get banana-software, we now also get banana-hardware.

I only have anecdotal evidence from watching a YT video, but I think the 2017 MBPs are pretty solid on all other accounts (ignoring the keyboard issues for the sake of argument).
Reviewers commended them for their superior thermal resiliency compared to previous models.
[doublepost=1529694079][/doublepost]

It will not fail automatically. That assumption is not fair IMO.

Thermal problem on other vendors' 8 gen notebooks is one of the reasons I hesitate to buy Windows laptops such as the Carbon X1 6gen. They do have better keyboards and Nvidia GPU in it.

 

[hajime]

Among the 15" 2015, 13" 2017 and 15" 2017, how is the trade-in values if later I want to sell it to Apple and buy a new model without that butterfly keyboard?
[doublepost=1529850205][/doublepost]

Better than 2016, AFAIK.
There's an AppleInsider article that mentions as much, but I can't find the video where somebody else made a lot of tests.
Ah, YT....

AppleInsider says that the thermal management is much better and the CPU and GPU don't have to throttle at all - or at least much later than on the 2016 models (so your intensive task may be over already).

Between the 13" and 15" MBP 2017, which has better thermal management?
[doublepost=1529850710][/doublepost]

Buy a 15 inch 2016/2017 MBP with Applecare (or a 2015 if you're not in need of a dedicated graphics card) - If there are issues with the keyboard or any other component of the computer, Apple has got you covered. AND - if it happens 3 times, multiple people have received brand new units.

Now that Apple has announced that it would provide free repair of the butterfly keyboard for 4 years, the chance of getting a brand new unit is almost zero. That announcement is actually a bad deal especially if they are replacing with the same faulty keyboard rather than a Rev.3 or newly designed one.

 

[MRrainer]

So the 5 years counting starts AFTER Apple stops selling the 15" 2015 which we don't know when?

Do you mean even I buy the 15" 2015 model from Apple now, there will be at least 5 years before apple not to keep the stock of the parts for repairing?

I do believe so.
MacTracker says, the 2012 13" MBP (the non-retina one with the upgradable hard drive and RAM) that was on sale from 2012 to 2016(!)) is still supported - as is the 15" MBP from the same year. 2011-models are vintage now, though.

With recent models, the problem is really not the availability of parts IMO but the sheer cost of repairs, due to the use of glue instead of screws in many places. The bad iFixit scores are real.

That's the real and actual sore point I have with Apple: that they don't offer a reasonable 5-year warranty. A lot of people would buy that and Apple would certainly know how to make a profit on it, too.

But Wall Street doesn't care if your kit runs 10 years. They want to know the amount of sold gear and they want that number to be larger every quarter.
A longer warranty will certainly not help with that goal. Keeping skills, inventory and spares for five to seven years of models must be quite a substantial drain on company resources. I'm sure some beancounter at Apple already calculated the costs of increasing the warranty down to a Cent....

If I had to buy a MBP now, I'd be torn, too. The keyboard thing scares me no less than you. The 15" ones are close to 3 grand - or above. That's real money. You don't want to make a 3-grand-mistake. I'd be tempted to buy the 2015 model - but except for the keyboard I'm pretty convinced that the 2017 model is better in all other aspects.

Thankfully, I currently don't need a laptop and especially not a powerful one. So, I can watch from the sidelines, waiting for Apple to finally show their cards.

 

[NO1EYENO]

Have been waiting for over 2.5 years with no productivity. Very bad for my career. During this time, just keep using my MBP 2010 17". Even after changing the HD to SSD and replacing the thermal paste, still have heat issue and noisy fan. Even just browsing the internet, the machine sounds like a jet engine. Everyday spending lots of time on macrumors hoping to hear news about Apple releasing a new MBP with improved keyboard. Nothing has happened. This causes lots of stress, anger, depression and frustration. Rather than going out to make new friends, just keep checking my phone for suitable replacement of MBP and news about the situation of the keyboard. We might as well have to wait until 2020. Apple does not care about the MBP line as the focus was iPad and now iPhone. Meanwhile, cannot find a PC manufacturer that offers good after sales support and reliable laptop. Windows laptops with 8th gen CPU all seem to suffer from heat, noisy fan and thermal issues. Heard that I need a laptop over 2kg to avoid seeing these issues. Tried to build a DIY workstation but half of the components were DOA. Considered to buy the cheapest MBP 13" nTB model yesterday to leave the waiting game and heard about the new repairing notes. Never have such a bad purchase experience before. TC really knows how to sc*ew up long term customer. How to break out of this waiting hell?

[doublepost=1529904521][/doublepost]BFD I have an early 2011 MBP i7 Quad Core
I replaced the graphics chip 4 times
I replaced the keyboard 2 times with one of the times with the whole aluminum top with scroll pad
I replaced the HDD 1 time.
BUT ZERO TIMES I HAD TO RE INSTALL THE OPERATING SYSTEM unlike Micro$oft POS machines.
my old early 2011 MBP has value. Its repairiable, its functioning just fine. its a quality machine used daily.
I will buy a new MBP when they install a High end chip and not a 2 year old CPU like they did last time.
Apple is Crap without Steve Jobs at the helm! We all see Apple slack off and produce a 1/2 baked MBP.
I'm sick about the abuse we have been receiving as MBP customers. Magic Slide Bar who is the jerk off
who let that pass! I dont want disco lights! just the fastest CPU made. Where is a fast Mini Mac? Apple
is slacking and that screws us. I will keep my MBP until Apple wakes up and turns out something other
than butterfly keyboards and rainbow scroll bars, I Get the Gay thing just leave it off my MBP.

 

[hajime]

I was going to buy a MBP in a store but when I told an Apple employee that I wanted a 1TB model, he said that for any build to order machine, I have to order online and it would take about 10 days as they have to customize the machine. Is this really true? Why don't they have different configurations in stock both in physical and online stores? I am in Canada now but I know that in some countries, they have different configurations of MBP in stock in their Apple stores. I checked Canadian online store. For any build to order model, I have to wait for about 10 days. When I checked the stock of other countries, they have everything in stock and would ship in 1-3 business days.

 

[maflynn]

I have to order online and it would take about 10 days as they have to customize the machine. Is this really true?

You're buying a Build To Order machine and while Apple may prebuild these, its quite possible your location may not have the quantity on hand, so the wait time may be 10 days.

Why don't they have different configurations in stock both in physical and online stores?

For physical stores apple does not have all configurations, just some basic models. As for the online store, they'll have to build it, but depending the popularity of the configuration you're choosing and/or parts on hand you may need to wait. The 10 days is just an estimate and many times apple has shipped machines out well before the estimated date.

You waited this long to buy a machine a couple of weeks shouldn't be too much of a hassle ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[hajime]

You're buying a Build To Order machine and while Apple may prebuild these, its quite possible your location may not have the quantity on hand, so the wait time may be 10 days.


For physical stores apple does not have all configurations, just some basic models. As for the online store, they'll have to build it, but depending the popularity of the configuration you're choosing and/or parts on hand you may need to wait. The 10 days is just an estimate and many times apple has shipped machines out well before the estimated date.

You waited this long to buy a machine a couple of weeks shouldn't be too much of a hassle ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Thanks. 15” 2015 as well as 13" and 15" 2017 1TB models all have estimated time of Aabout 10 days.

 

[hajime]

Just went to another Apple Store. Employee there has no idea what revision of the keyboard they are using for the replacement!

 

[MRrainer]

Well, now that the new ones are available, what do you think?
;-)

 

[hajime]

Went to the store today but only the 2017 are there. I said I wanted to buy the new mbp and they showed me the 2017! I told them I want the 2018 just released today. They said they might have them at the back but I cannot buy them yet. Demo units will be on display few days later!

 

[mpainesyd]

Lots of speculation and a bit of info about the2018 MBP models here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-quad-core-on-13-inch-and-more.2127098/page-6
I would wait a few days until hands-on reviews are posted.
Also maybe watch this thread
https://9to5mac.com/2018/07/12/macbook-pro-mid-2018-now-shipping/

Update: A couple of promising developments ...
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastest-laptop-ssd-ever/
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-quieter-keyboard-demoed/

 

[hajime]

If there are heat/noisy fan/thermal throttling and keyboard reliability issues on the 2018, I may consider X1 Carbon Gen 6 that has the same heat related issues but lighter weight, has Nvidia GPU and keyboard that has no reliability issue.