How worried are Google and Microsoft?

[MozMan68]

You are correct in Apple copying Google on a few features and vice versa. I'm not sure about WP reaching feature parity though. I'm quite sure Google and Microsoft like Samsung will now start targeting Health on their devices. iOS 8 features pushes Apple ahead again which means Microsoft will mostly be behind the curve.

Except Microsoft is already developing features like that as well (Bing Health and wearables have already been mentioned and/or announced)....8.1 outshines iOS in many ways even if you consider it "copying."

I was on iOS since it came up and switched to Windows Phone 6 months ago just for the heck of it...and I fell in love with the larger phone choices. I've had WP 8.1 since the developer preview was released a couple of months ago and it has filled all of the gaps I gave up with iOS including a better notification center. Live tiles are huge for me. Cortana is truely the best of Siri and Google Now and is improving dramatically every week...and it hasn't even been officially released yet.

HD phone screens and features like Glance with Nokia as well as incredibly accurate map apps, Bing data for Cortana and MS apps...

Yes...apps are behind iOS and Android, but catching up every day. Honestly, there are none that I miss outside of my local bank app...and the web version works fine for me. Others that I may have used were used sparingly and most likely have a WP counterpart that would suffice.

I have to laugh at the slide they show where PC sales are only growing 4% and Apple Mac growth is over 20%. If I decided to build my own cars and sold 50 this year and 100 next year, that would be 100% growth....do you think Ford would be concerned that their growth was only 4 percent? Windows is EVERYWHERE, particularly in the corporate world. MS has made a bunch of missteps and questionable marketing compared to Apple, but by providing a phone OS that now seriously rivals the best while coming out with the Surface Pro 3 which allows corporate to provide their workers with a functioning laptop that they can also use as a tablet when needed is great.....and I think it may push Apple in a similar direction (remember talks about the 12" iPad Pro??).

I miss Apple less and less every day...

 

[Black Magic]

Except Microsoft is already developing features like that as well (Bing Health and wearables have already been mentioned and/or announced)....8.1 outshines iOS in many ways even if you consider it "copying."

I was on iOS since it came up and switched to Windows Phone 6 months ago just for the heck of it...and I fell in love with the larger phone choices. I've had WP 8.1 since the developer preview was released a couple of months ago and it has filled all of the gaps I gave up with iOS including a better notification center. Live tiles are huge for me. Cortana is truely the best of Siri and Google Now and is improving dramatically every week...and it hasn't even been officially released yet.

HD phone screens and features like Glance with Nokia as well as incredibly accurate map apps, Bing data for Cortana and MS apps...

Yes...apps are behind iOS and Android, but catching up every day. Honestly, there are none that I miss outside of my local bank app...and the web version works fine for me. Others that I may have used were used sparingly and most likely have a WP counterpart that would suffice.

I have to laugh at the slide they show where PC sales are only growing 4% and Apple Mac growth is over 20%. If I decided to build my own cars and sold 50 this year and 100 next year, that would be 100% growth....do you think Ford would be concerned that their growth was only 4 percent? Windows is EVERYWHERE, particularly in the corporate world. MS has made a bunch of missteps and questionable marketing compared to Apple, but by providing a phone OS that now seriously rivals the best while coming out with the Surface Pro 3 which allows corporate to provide their workers with a functioning laptop that they can also use as a tablet when needed is great.....and I think it may push Apple in a similar direction (remember talks about the 12" iPad Pro??).

I miss Apple less and less every day...

Honestly, you sound like Microsoft's "Honestly" campaign. Ballmer said it himself, "it's all about developers, developers, developers!" Windows Phone doesn't have significant interest from the developers and the Microsoft store shows. You stated the store is getting better and better but we can list off 20 MAJOR apps without breaking a sweat. No Google support still in 2014?

You switching over to Windows Phone was a bad choice and you know it deep down inside. You left probably because you wanted to be a rebel and decided to go with the weakest platform of the 3 to be "different". The truth is you gave up a top shelf experience for a inferior one that's trying to play catch up in a market it never will. Think about it. You just spent money and locked into a contract to get a phone that is just now getting most of the features the other platforms have had for years and little to no apps? Windows Phone has been dead these past few years and now you are beating on your chest like something has or will change? Spotting a Windows Phone in the wild is like winning the lottery. It rarely ever happens.

Oh and you think that the 3rd time is a charm and the Surface Pro 3 will sell? Good luck with that. I still feel sorry for all the poor suckers that bought Surface RT and Windows Phone 7. They got left holding the bag. Apple could actually do a Surface like device and succeed where Microsoft fails. They can dual boot between iOS and OS X and everyone wins. Big time App store, polished OSes, quality designed hardware.

You keep on beating on your chest about how great your poor purchase decision was. The rest of us will be enjoying our industry leading devices without compromise.

 

[gotluck]

Dual booting OSX and ios is a pipe dream ! That would require apple relinquishing some of their lockdown over ios.

Surface pro has a market in enterprise IMO. OSX will never be prominent in enterprise, only the arts.

Granted I'm typing this from an iPad, but I still have my work windows laptop.

If we're talking about desktop 'apps', windows wins

 

[Vegastouch]

Honestly, you sound like Microsoft's "Honestly" campaign. Ballmer said it himself, "it's all about developers, developers, developers!" Windows Phone doesn't have significant interest from the developers and the Microsoft store shows. You stated the store is getting better and better but we can list off 20 MAJOR apps without breaking a sweat. No Google support still in 2014?

You switching over to Windows Phone was a bad choice and you know it deep down inside. You left probably because you wanted to be a rebel and decided to go with the weakest platform of the 3 to be "different". The truth is you gave up a top shelf experience for a inferior one that's trying to play catch up in a market it never will. Think about it. You just spent money and locked into a contract to get a phone that is just now getting most of the features the other platforms have had for years and little to no apps? Windows Phone has been dead these past few years and now you are beating on your chest like something has or will change? Spotting a Windows Phone in the wild is like winning the lottery. It rarely ever happens.

Oh and you think that the 3rd time is a charm and the Surface Pro 3 will sell? Good luck with that. I still feel sorry for all the poor suckers that bought Surface RT and Windows Phone 7. They got left holding the bag. Apple could actually do a Surface like device and succeed where Microsoft fails. They can dual boot between iOS and OS X and everyone wins. Big time App store, polished OSes, quality designed hardware.

You keep on beating on your chest about how great your poor purchase decision was. The rest of us will be enjoying our industry leading devices without compromise.

Cant say id agree with this. Apple will never catch up either and just now getting things Android has had for years so should nobody buy their phones anymore?
Cortana is already said to be better than Siri and Google Now so why cant they get better? They are said to have 250,000 apps now. Sure some of the basic ones like eBay may not be as good as Androids or iOS but they can catch up....just like Android did when they werent as good.

The Nokia phones are damn good devices. The Surface Pro i think is better than a iPad(i dont care for iPads and we had a mini)and the SP3 should be much better.

 

[Black Magic]

Dual booting OSX and ios is a pipe dream ! That would require apple relinquishing some of their lockdown over ios.

Surface pro has a market in enterprise IMO. OSX will never be prominent in enterprise, only the arts.

Granted I'm typing this from an iPad, but I still have my work windows laptop.

If we're talking about desktop 'apps', windows wins

Never say never. I can envision apple releasing a device that uses both OSes. I'm not interested in that myself and prefer separate products.

I hear your on the desktop apps and enterprise but I think folks are clinging to the past. Microsoft is under serious siege and Apple is attacking the enterprise aggressively. How you ask? iPad. Many schools now distribute and use iPads for teaching. Executives at almost every company bring in iPhones and iPads to work which leads us to BYOD. Why do you think Microsoft brought Office to iOS? They had too. They are being forced to now support other platforms because their own platform is losing steam. You will see more of this in the near future. Desktops truly are dying. Hell, don't be surprised to see iPad cash registers at your local grocery chain in the near future.

Apple isn't playing around and they are playing the long game.

 

[spinedoc77]

Except Microsoft is already developing features like that as well (Bing Health and wearables have already been mentioned and/or announced)....8.1 outshines iOS in many ways even if you consider it "copying."

I was on iOS since it came up and switched to Windows Phone 6 months ago just for the heck of it...and I fell in love with the larger phone choices. I've had WP 8.1 since the developer preview was released a couple of months ago and it has filled all of the gaps I gave up with iOS including a better notification center. Live tiles are huge for me. Cortana is truely the best of Siri and Google Now and is improving dramatically every week...and it hasn't even been officially released yet.

HD phone screens and features like Glance with Nokia as well as incredibly accurate map apps, Bing data for Cortana and MS apps...

Yes...apps are behind iOS and Android, but catching up every day. Honestly, there are none that I miss outside of my local bank app...and the web version works fine for me. Others that I may have used were used sparingly and most likely have a WP counterpart that would suffice.

I have to laugh at the slide they show where PC sales are only growing 4% and Apple Mac growth is over 20%. If I decided to build my own cars and sold 50 this year and 100 next year, that would be 100% growth....do you think Ford would be concerned that their growth was only 4 percent? Windows is EVERYWHERE, particularly in the corporate world. MS has made a bunch of missteps and questionable marketing compared to Apple, but by providing a phone OS that now seriously rivals the best while coming out with the Surface Pro 3 which allows corporate to provide their workers with a functioning laptop that they can also use as a tablet when needed is great.....and I think it may push Apple in a similar direction (remember talks about the 12" iPad Pro??).

I miss Apple less and less every day...

Microsoft is doing some incredible stuff, they are really coming about finally. The competition all around is awesome as it forces everyone to up their game.

 

[MozMan68]

You stated the store is getting better and better but we can list off 20 MAJOR apps without breaking a sweat. No Google support still in 2014?

Hah...I'd like to see your list of "major" apps....

Considering I actually use BOTH operating systems, I'm probably more qualified to state the positives and negatives about them.

I bought the phone because I was amazed by the screen (both size and quality) and the speed of the OS. The integration with my work (all MS based) was the extra push that drove me to try it. And now with WP 8.1, there is very little that separates iOS from WP for me...yes...for me.

You can say how Office is now on the iPad and all of the other MS specific apps, but trust me, the experience is not the same.

I find it hilarious that you think my posyt in any way is an attempt to disparage Apple or iOS...I use iOS every day and was only trying to give some sort of objective view of the competition. You'll notice, I never comment about Android as I don't use it....and based on my limited experience trying devices out, I don't really care for it.

So go ahead...give me your list of major apps that no one can live without and I'll give you a fair response.

 

[spinedoc77]

Hah...I'd like to see your list of "major" apps....

Considering I actually use BOTH operating systems, I'm probably more qualified to state the positives and negatives about them.

I bought the phone because I was amazed by the screen (both size and quality) and the speed of the OS. The integration with my work (all MS based) was the extra push that drove me to try it. And now with WP 8.1, there is very little that separates iOS from WP for me...yes...for me.

You can say how Office is now on the iPad and all of the other MS specific apps, but trust me, the experience is not the same.

I find it hilarious that you think my posyt in any way is an attempt to disparage Apple or iOS...I use iOS every day and was only trying to give some sort of objective view of the competition. You'll notice, I never comment about Android as I don't use it....and based on my limited experience trying devices out, I don't really care for it.

So go ahead...give me your list of major apps that no one can live without and I'll give you a fair response.

There are not really many apps. I started a thread about this specifically and very few apps came up. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1743646/ Most had a windows app, a few had desktop programs or webpages instead of apps. Certainly the "major" ones are represented. This argument gets weaker and weaker by the day, quite quickly actually. Of course the fall back then is on the "quality" of the app, but in most of those apps I fail to see where the reduced quality is. In many of the cases I see MORE quality and functionality, funny enough I see this especially when there is a desktop app.

This is pretty subjective though. I can live without Google for example. Google maps kind of sucks IMO and I like Waze much much better for the crowdsourcing, but that's a subjective opinion. Otherwise there are no other must have Google apps that I use, at least ones that Bing doesn't have an equal to. Other apps are subjective as well, of course. I think the point is that the "major" apps are well represented and in a very few cases have counter-apps which are equal.

 

[Black Magic]

Hah...I'd like to see your list of "major" apps....

Considering I actually use BOTH operating systems, I'm probably more qualified to state the positives and negatives about them.

I bought the phone because I was amazed by the screen (both size and quality) and the speed of the OS. The integration with my work (all MS based) was the extra push that drove me to try it. And now with WP 8.1, there is very little that separates iOS from WP for me...yes...for me.

You can say how Office is now on the iPad and all of the other MS specific apps, but trust me, the experience is not the same.

I find it hilarious that you think my posyt in any way is an attempt to disparage Apple or iOS...I use iOS every day and was only trying to give some sort of objective view of the competition. You'll notice, I never comment about Android as I don't use it....and based on my limited experience trying devices out, I don't really care for it.

So go ahead...give me your list of major apps that no one can live without and I'll give you a fair response.

I do use Windows 8.1 update 1 so hopefully that qualifies. Not sure I want to go down the apps rabbit hole because it will turn subjective. You already added the dramatization piece by saying "no one can live without." I could say Google Maps, SnapChat, Instagram, or NBA Game Time as a small sampling and your reply would be along the lines of they aren't needed. Most Google Apps are missing and many folks use those as well.

 

[spinedoc77]

I do use Windows 8.1 update 1 so hopefully that qualifies. Not sure I want to go down the apps rabbit hole because it will turn subjective. You already added the dramatization piece by saying "no one can live without." I could say Google Maps, SnapChat, Instagram, or NBA Game Time as a small sampling and your reply would be along the lines of they aren't needed. Most Google Apps are missing and many folks use those as well.

Google Maps: Can use online, but native maps apps are prevalent in all platforms. Subjective of course, but these days I don't see much difference in maps apps, they are all pretty much excellent.
Snapchat: Couple of solutions, best one seems to be 6snap.
Instagram: This DOES have a windows app (for quite a while too)
NBA Game Time: This DOES have a windows app. (also for quite a while)

 

[Black Magic]

Google Maps: Can use online, but native maps apps are prevalent in all platforms. Subjective of course, but these days I don't see much difference in maps apps, they are all pretty much excellent.
Snapchat: Couple of solutions, best one seems to be 6snap.
Instagram: This DOES have a windows app (for quite a while too)
NBA Game Time: This DOES have a windows app. (also for quite a while)

You sure on the NBA Game Time? We looked this up in the store the other day and no dice. The webpage even states Android and iOS.

I'm about to head to work but I'll list a few more soon.

 

[sracer]

There are not really many apps. I started a thread about this specifically and very few apps came up. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1743646/ Most had a windows app, a few had desktop programs or webpages instead of apps. Certainly the "major" ones are represented. This argument gets weaker and weaker by the day, quite quickly actually. Of course the fall back then is on the "quality" of the app, but in most of those apps I fail to see where the reduced quality is. In many of the cases I see MORE quality and functionality, funny enough I see this especially when there is a desktop app.

Don't gauge the validity of the claim of lack of quality and quantity of Windows apps by that thread. Your purpose in starting that thread was an "experiment" (your word). When people mentioned an app, you usually responded with your opinion as to why that app was inferior or of no value.

There is the interesting but not surprising use of a circular definition... Windows apps store has all the major apps. (Major apps are those who appear in the Windows app store). LOL

Whenever anyone makes a substantive claim of an app that is missing (form or function) from the Windows app store the response is, "that's a special case". That's a pretty convenient little package there.

 

[Black Magic]

VSCO cam

DropBox

Flipboard

FaceBook Paper

Pretty much most bank and credit union apps.

Plants vs Zombies 2

 

[spinedoc77]

Don't gauge the validity of the claim of lack of quality and quantity of Windows apps by that thread. Your purpose in starting that thread was an "experiment" (your word). When people mentioned an app, you usually responded with your opinion as to why that app was inferior or of no value.

There is the interesting but not surprising use of a circular definition... Windows apps store has all the major apps. (Major apps are those who appear in the Windows app store). LOL

Whenever anyone makes a substantive claim of an app that is missing (form or function) from the Windows app store the response is, "that's a special case". That's a pretty convenient little package there.

When people mentioned an app I gave them either a) the same app on windows, b) a comparable app by a different company, c) a comparable legacy program, or d) said there was no app. Certainly I added my opinion of an apps quality as that is subjective and every user would find a different experience. But hey, it's a forum.

No one says that's a special case, not sure where you are getting that from. I've addressed every single app thrown at me and I don't see anyone else on the boards doing that. No one has said that windows has EVERY single app that iOS/android has, but that's true conversely as well. The "experiment" for my purposes was to see how many apps people thought were missing which were in fact on windows, and to further that experiment how when confronted with the reality of their app being available how many would turn to the "quality" argument, which as you stated is quite subjective.

 

[spinedoc77]

VSCO cam

DropBox

Flipboard

FaceBook Paper

Pretty much most bank and credit union apps.

Plants vs Zombies 2

Dropbox: There is an app, it's quite nice also, that's been out for quite some time.

Flipboard: There is an app for windows.

Facebook paper: I don;t know what this is, isn't it a news aggregator like flipboard? Anyhow I didn't see an app for this, but facebook seems like they support MS fairly quickly so I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

Plants vs zombies 2: There is an app for PvsZ 1, so I'm sure the 2nd one will follow, but currently I didn't find anything. hey there is always Bluestacks.

 

[MozMan68]

VSCO cam

DropBox

Flipboard

FaceBook Paper

Pretty much most bank and credit union apps.

Plants vs Zombies 2

VSCO cam -- Yep...but I imagine most would claim that there are a variety of camera apps that are just as good....particularly those that have Nokia phones. Sure, not apples to apples, but there are solutions.

DropBox -- I personally don't use it anymore, but there are a lot of complaints about this one not being available since it was the first large cloud based file sharing program. Again, you could use OneDrive and have all of the same features.

Flipboard -- May be a "major" download on iOS/Android, but I've never heard of anyone complaining that this is a must have on an operating system. An alternative on WP 8.1 could be Cortana as it now gives me all of the top news stories and updates I want to see in that tile. Certainly not in the same format that has made Flipboard so popular, but it is there and very easy to get to in a digestible format.

Facebook Paper -- Seriously? Not even in the top 200 apps...and only ranked 117 of the Social Networking apps. With that being said, I would love it on WP.

Bank and Credit Unions -- Yes for local banks (mine included) but most National Banks are represented. While not as sleek as most apps, I've been fine with the web version as every bank I know of starts with web banking and adds the app after the fact. Don't know of any "app only" banks out there.

Plants Vs. Zombies -- Games are tough as they tend to be os specific, so I'll give you 100% on that one. Majority of top app downloads are games...some lasting a long time and some popular for a month. Personally, I'm a solitaire/minesweeper type of guy...Angry Birds as well, but that's on WP. Other than that, most seem to be replicated in one form or another on WP and the names are changed. I couldn't tell you whether or not they are good replications, but I'm sure there is a lot of crap out there.

----------

Dropbox: There is an app, it's quite nice also, that's been out for quite some time.

Flipboard: There is an app for windows.

Facebook paper: I don;t know what this is, isn't it a news aggregator like flipboard? Anyhow I didn't see an app for this, but facebook seems like they support MS fairly quickly so I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

Plants vs zombies 2: There is an app for PvsZ 1, so I'm sure the 2nd one will follow, but currently I didn't find anything. hey there is always Bluestacks.

Yes...but I don't think DropBox, Flipboard, etc. are official apps.

BUt there do seem to be some very good replicated versions...Google Maps for instance. I couldn't tell the difference from WP to iOS when I first got the phone. Just was never a fan of Google Maps. Waze has improved so much over the past couple of years, I typically use that now as my go to map app.

 

[Black Magic]

Dropbox: There is an app, it's quite nice also, that's been out for quite some time.

Flipboard: There is an app for windows.

Facebook paper: I don;t know what this is, isn't it a news aggregator like flipboard? Anyhow I didn't see an app for this, but facebook seems like they support MS fairly quickly so I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

Plants vs zombies 2: There is an app for PvsZ 1, so I'm sure the 2nd one will follow, but currently I didn't find anything. hey there is always Bluestacks.

Big difference comparing official apps to third party apps that try to replicate the official. If it's not the official app then I would say it's not in the store and not represented.

 

[MozMan68]

Big difference comparing official apps to third party apps that try to replicate the official. If it's not the official app then I would say it's not in the store and not represented.

But again, you should try some of the "emulated" apps....I was surprised how good they actually are. No different than all of the Facebook apps that were and still are on iOS for those that prefer them to the official app.

"Official" doesn't always mean better....well, it ussally does...but not always...

 

[spinedoc77]

Big difference comparing official apps to third party apps that try to replicate the official. If it's not the official app then I would say it's not in the store and not represented.

I was comparing official apps for the first 2.

As for official apps you may be right sometimes, but it's not always the case that a 3rd party app is not as good as the official one. Still I've never said it wasn't a good point if there is not an "official" app, it definitely is. My only point is that many times there is an alternative and it's mainly directed at people who scream that there is no option for them. Saying it's not in the store and not represented if it's a 3rd party app is just one of those things we are going to have to disagree upon.

----------

But again, you should try some of the "emulated" apps....I was surprised how good they actually are. No different than all of the Facebook apps that were and still are on iOS for those that prefer them to the official app.

"Official" doesn't always mean better....well, it ussally does...but not always...

Sometimes people are not willing to research and try different things. I don't have an issue with that, we are all busy, I just hate it when opinions are made without actually having used the apps.

 

[Vegastouch]

Dropbox: There is an app, it's quite nice also, that's been out for quite some time.

Flipboard: There is an app for windows.

Facebook paper: I don;t know what this is, isn't it a news aggregator like flipboard? Anyhow I didn't see an app for this, but facebook seems like they support MS fairly quickly so I'm sure it's just a matter of time.

Plants vs zombies 2: There is an app for PvsZ 1, so I'm sure the 2nd one will follow, but currently I didn't find anything. hey there is always Bluestacks.

Facebook Paper isnt a major/typical app. I cant even find it in the Playstore unless its called something else like Facebook Pages Manager....which from the looks of it, something i dont need. The only reason why i looked is because i didnt know what it was.

Ive been using Dropbox on Windows 8 for a while now. One of the first things i installed almost a year ago.

I dont get the draw of Instagram. I know this is my opinion but i only want to share photos with my friends so that works just fine on Facebook. I deleted Instagram after two weeks as i dont need two places with the same friends and dont need to share them with everyone.

I dont do my Banking on my phone and never will. The ONLY thing in that capacity i have is Google Wallet. I dont even use Paypal on it.

 

[Vegastouch]

But again, you should try some of the "emulated" apps....I was surprised how good they actually are. No different than all of the Facebook apps that were and still are on iOS for those that prefer them to the official app.

"Official" doesn't always mean better....well, it ussally does...but not always...

Agree, the Facebook App i use, i dont think it is official but dont really know. It looks and works exactly the same but one thing it added when i installed it, it gave me a task bar icon that works like the Start button did on all the previous Windows OS so that is a great addition imo.

 

[spinedoc77]

I've never had an issue with banking apps, both my banks have apps: BofA and CapitalOne. This may be an issue though, I'm not denying it, just I haven't run into it. There is the option of going through the website though, I'd have to think the vast majority of banks have mobile websites which scale well to small screens.

 

[MozMan68]

I was comparing official apps for the first 2.

There are no apps for either DropBox or FlipBoard on Windows. There aren't even emulators.

There are some apps to let you grab files from DropBox...nothing for Flipboard.

 

[spinedoc77]

There are no apps for either DropBox or FlipBoard on Windows. There aren't even emulators.

There are some apps to let you grab files from DropBox...nothing for Flipboard.

Dropbox:
http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/dropbox/78b08472-168e-496e-a8f5-9601892da4fa

Flipboard:
http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/e62e393a-acc9-40d9-a34a-13a41f2eeef0

 

[MozMan68]

Dropbox:
http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/dropbox/78b08472-168e-496e-a8f5-9601892da4fa

Flipboard:
http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/e62e393a-acc9-40d9-a34a-13a41f2eeef0

Ok...those are 8.1 PC apps....I assumed we were talking about phone/mobile apps. I guess it is important to note that while Apple developers are getting better at making a single app to cover both phones and tablets, they are still generally the same where Windows allows more/better functionality in some cases.

I guess one of the benefits of the migration to a singular operating system. Glad I will have these when I get my Surface Pro 3. I would have never used them on my phone anyway.

Thanks for the clarification as they don't come up on my phone.