HP 2133 UMPC: What the MacBook Air should have been.

[Roba]

I think that that notebook looks good. I think it would have been more ideal if Apple made something like this and also made a 12-13inch Pro notebook that was fully functional and not lacking in some key features like the MBA is.

Apple could have based this ultraportable UMPC on the iPhone. I could see how something like that would work.

 

[QCassidy352]

Weight mattered when you're talking about luggables vs heavy laptops. When it comes down to these devices, weight is like arguing over the weight of a sheet of paper vs a feather. It doesn't matter.

Footprint makes a huge amount of difference.

What do you mean by "these devices?" The HP vs. the air? Or one of them vs a macbook (pro)? Because IMO the weight difference between this or the air and a macbook (pro) is large and significant.

Footprint makes ZERO difference to me. Tell me one place I could use this POS HP that I couldn't use an air because of the footprint difference.

Good thing I can pay 1/3 as much money for my toys as you do for your "real/proper computers", and yet do heavy lifting real work on them. I feel sorry for your accountant, having to keep track of all of the money you waste.

Oh I'm sorry, did I say I had a MBA? No... I have a core duo macbook. But if I did need an ultra-portable this thing would never be an option.

And given that you could almost certainly be doing your "heavy lifting real work" on an old centrino PC laptop that would cost about $200 bucks at this point, I guess you're "wasting money" too, right?

 

[notjustjay]

I'm very interested to see how things play out with the HP2133, but I think the OP's speculated price of $500-ish is very unrealistic, unless someone can tell me otherwise.

I used to be a big gadget freak and would hop at chances to play with Windows CE devices, NEC MobilePro 880 some time back, stuff like the eeePC, this HP, etc. But these days I've learned to spend my money smarter, and I don't buy into devices unless they really, really suit me. (Hence I own neither an MBA nor eee PC).

We'll see how it goes...

 

[erickzig]

I'm very interested to see how things play out with the HP2133, but I think the OP's speculated price of $500-ish is very unrealistic, unless someone can tell me otherwise.

I believe engadget speculated/reported that the cost would be around $630 and it would come out possibly in April...

 

[ctt1wbw]

You know, that seems like a VERY interesting laptop! I have been thinking of getting the EEE or something similar, since deep down I have always liked Linux . That device would fit the bill perfectly, especially if they keep the price down.

Just go to ebay and buy a used Dell or something for Linux. Much cheaper and you actually get a real computer.

 

[shadowmatt]

I dont get why some people want Apple to make a eeePC style notebook.

You have already complained enough about what Apple had to cut out to make the Air. If they reduced screen size, hd space to 4gb, and a lesser cpu would you really be happy.

Sure it would probably run a cut down version of OSX, like the iPhone. But it wouldnt run CS3, Office or any of the other great apps that the Air can run. So you would basically have a large iPhone, capable of browsing the web, reading email and editing a few documents using a cut down version of some full sized app.

Not my idea of portable computing.

 

[notjustjay]

Sure it would probably run a cut down version of OSX, like the iPhone. But it wouldnt run CS3, Office or any of the other great apps that the Air can run. So you would basically have a large iPhone, capable of browsing the web, reading email and editing a few documents using a cut down version of some full sized app.

Not my idea of portable computing.

I would like it, if they were to also price it like an eee PC (e.g. $300) and if it had similar battery life to an iPod Touch or iPhone (e.g. 10-20 hours). It would be a great thing to throw into the car or luggage for checking email on vacations, or taking notes in lectures and meetings. It would also have its uses in classrooms, etc.

But, yes, it would be very much a niche device.

 

[deniser]

That has to be the most ugliest looking laptop I have ever seen

 

[Adokimus]

Actually, if Apple came out with an eeePC sized/form laptop which combined the aethetics and function of the Air and the iPod touch, and around 16GB memory, for under $750, I would be there. The eeePC really started a computing revolution, the HP entry looks even more polished and useful, and I would love to see Apple redefine the 7-10" screen category. I'm thinking of a combo media player, laptop, GPS for car, multi-touch screen, etc...

Won't happen, but I like to dream.

 

[ecsk2]

agreed about the playskool laptop. that asus eee pc has 2 gb of storage...

Maybe someone pointed this out already? But the 2Gb version is a cheaper version of the BASE MODEL the 4Gb edition. There is also an 8Gb version.
As for the EEE I don't feel it's in the same category as this HP at all, I doubt HP is ready to release such a lowend/affordable computer at this time. The EEE really fits into a nice segment and compliments my Apple's really nicely. For me the EEE is just what I need for some occasions, and right price and size. No hassle with Windows (unless that's what you need/want, I don't) but I can still run Win programs under crossover.

What I really want though is an Apple product in the handtop size:
..Apple are you listening/watching??

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/02/mbpmockup1003.jpg
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/02/mbpmockup1014.jpg

 

[kzin]

Actually, if Apple came out with an eeePC sized/form laptop which combined the aethetics and function of the Air and the iPod touch, and around 16GB memory, for under $750, I would be there. The eeePC really started a computing revolution, the HP entry looks even more polished and useful, and I would love to see Apple redefine the 7-10" screen category. I'm thinking of a combo media player, laptop, GPS for car, multi-touch screen, etc...

Won't happen, but I like to dream.

Which is really what I was getting at. I don't want a device that literally looks like the HP. Nor the fujitsu lifebook u810.

What I want is an Apple entry into the under $750, 7-10" screen laptop market (more resolution, but still in the smaller screen, and enough screen memory to display a ton more when attached to an external monitor). 1 or 2 SDHC cards for primary storage, SSD option, a USB Client port (for syncing and charging), one or two USB Host/OTG ports, micro-DVI out, both stereo speakers and audio out, Express Card slot, multi-touch screen, wifi, and bluetooth.

(in portrait mode: put as many of the ports/slots* on one long edge (top or bottom), or maybe some USB on top and some USB on bottom; then use iPhone-like detectors to allow the device to be used in _any_ orientation ... perhaps with a speaker in each corner, and some means of always correctly directing left/right sound to the correct pairs of speakers)

(* ports/slots == SDHC slots, USB ports, Micro-DVI out, audio out, and Express Card)

It would be especially nice if it could act as a wifi base-station for an iTouch. And/or if the iPhone could act as a wifi base-station for this device. Then you could use the iPhone's WWAN to have this device be connected, while the iPhone is in your pocket. Or you could have a WWAN card in this device's express card slot, keep it in your backpack, and use the iTouch to surf the net via this device's express card WWAN.

I'm sort of agnostic about the keyboard choices. I could probably make due with a mini-laptop (HP/EeePC style, or Fujitsu Lifebook U810 style ... between the two, I slightly prefer the U810 (twist screen) style, even though it's uglier), or a OQO style slide-out keyboard. But, I think the Samsung Q1 had it right: a virtual version of the Q1-Ultra or Pepperpad split-thumb keyboard. I'm not saying use this exact implementation (the aesthetics could be better, and I'd make it more translucent so you can see more of the underlying real-estate):

But that's the general idea. You can thumb-type on the screen, no need to waste physical device space with real keys. If you need a REAL keyboard, then I see lots of options for people in that situation (someone could make a case for it that has a keyboard, so it becomes like a mini-laptop for people in that crowd; you could use any bluetooth keyboard; someone could make a docking station that held it up like a small iMac; etc.).

And, when you've got it attached to a docking station, you can use it basically as a replacement for the Mac-mini ... except for the optical drive. For that, you could either mount the MBA's USB superdrive, or you could use the MBA's software to borrow one from another machine. Keyboard and mouse via bluetooth (or via USB in the port replicator/docking station), and a large-ish external monitor via the port-replicator/docking station. Depending on how you do the docking station/port replicator, maybe this device can also be used as a drawing tablet and/or large trackpad while it's docked.

All of that combined with a platform that is somewhat of a mix of the iPhone/iTouch and standard OSX --- some UI elements directly from the iPhone/iTouch, but fully compatible with desktop/laptop OSX applications. It should have the visual aesthetics of the Mac platform (perhaps looking something between a large iPhone and a small rounded off iMac).


If Apple did that, I'd buy it.

I would LOVE to have that, over the EeePC, the HP 2133, Everex Cloudbook, etc.

I will NEVER buy the MacBook Air. Even if I had the spare cash. I'd rather buy the regular MacBook. Same footprint (and yes, that is FAR more important to me than the weight difference between the MB and MBA), better features at the same price points. The whole concept of the MBA is completely useless to me.

But, then, I'm pretty sure i wont buy a MacBook, either -- too big. It's not that I want to do all of my work on a small screen, it's that I can put that device on a bigger screen for those moments when I do need a bigger screen. But, in most moments, I do NOT need the bigger screen. So, I would lean closer to a 7" screen than a 10" one. I think 8" (not the HP's 8.9") would be just about right.

Unfortunately for Apple, I'm more interested in an 8" screen device than I am in an OS X device. Certainly it can't be a Windows device ... but I'll be mostly happy if it's running one of the newer/nicer Linux distributions (they're no where near as god-awful on usability as they were 5-10 years ago). I'm just not as addicted to Nextstep/OSX as I was as recently as 1-2 years ago (and before that, I had been head-over-heels for Nextstep since I first used it, in the late 80's).

Apple has a hole in its product line. A hole that other companies are filling with something very attractive to the market right now. They should fill that hole with _SOMETHING_ that has an Apple brand.

 

[kzin]

Thinking about it more, I suppose I would be happy with an 8" screen version of the iPod Touch, as opposed to an 8" MacBook, if the 8" iPod Touch had:

• The split virtual keyboard when used in landscape mode
• No skimping on the included software (like they did with the original iPod Touch, and no $25 add-on fee to fix it, like they did with the iPod Touch; should be able to do everything the iPhone and iPod Touch do, except make phone calls and do SMS/MMS messages)
• An open SDK
• An OpenSSH client (via the SDK or built in, either one)
• A VNC client (via the SDK or built in, either one)
• A Remote Desktop client (again, via the SDK or built in, either one)
• SSD storage with at least 32GB, pref. options that match the iPod Classic storage tiers, only with SSD instead of HDD.
• An express card slot, with WWAN card drivers
• Bluetooth (for headsets, keyboards, and for DUN _and_ PAN)
• Some form of tethering with the iPhone (add bluetooth DUN or PAN to the iPhone, or let the iPhone act as an airport base station for the 8" iTouch).
• Some form of wireless data sharing protocol to use among the iPod family (ex: add Bluetooth FTP to the iPod Classic, iPhone, and iPod Touch, and let them share music, video, and files among each other)
• Lots and LOTS of battery
• Price tag under $1000

Maybe I should mention that over in those forums.

 

[Sesshi]

No way! How I am I going to be holier than thou with a VIA processor? And that's just for starters...

 

[QCassidy352]

I will NEVER buy the MacBook Air. Even if I had the spare cash. I'd rather buy the regular MacBook. Same footprint (and yes, that is FAR more important to me than the weight difference between the MB and MBA), better features at the same price points. The whole concept of the MBA is completely useless to me.

You've yet to explain why footprint matters. You didn't answer before, so I'll ask it again - where can you use an HP 2133 that you can't use a MBA? On 8" wide table tops?

Thinking about it more, I suppose I would be happy with an 8" screen version of the iPod Touch, as opposed to an 8" MacBook, if the 8" iPod Touch had:

• SSD storage with at least 32GB, pref. options that match the iPod Classic storage tiers, only with SSD instead of HDD.
  ...
• Price tag under $1000

yeah, good luck with that.

 

[topicolo]

kzin, I think you're having trouble realizing that your requirements for a perfect laptop puts you in the vast minority. How many people are out there who buy laptops to put in their backpack and act as a mobile server for their N810s? how many people even own an N810? On top of that, how many people in that population use openSSH and use bluetooth to ftp files to their other electronic devices? Do you actually think this population is bigger than say, the number of people who want a sleek laptop that they can take on the road with them?

Apple will never tailor their hardware to hardcore subpopulations like the one you're describing. If you haven't noticed, they're more focused on streamlining complicated technologies so that they just work for the masses. That's why they're so successful.

 

[kzin]

You've yet to explain why footprint matters.

I can carry it in a smaller bag, so I don't have to lug around something the size of a briefcase, full size messenger bag, etc. Even if it's a sleeve, it's obtrusive to carry a full size laptop.

Whereas, you can carry 8" and smaller devices in bags that are small enough and comfortable enough that you almost don't notice them.

The weight difference between an HP 2133 and a MacBook Air isn't something I'll notice. The fact that the bag I carry the MBA in is an annoyance to deal with, where the bag the HP is in is not, is something I'll notice.

 

[greenmeanie]

I am going to get one.

 

[robanga]

I have a Samsung Q1 and it will soon join the forlorn gadget corner of my closet, awaiting it's day on Ebay that will also likely never come.

It was a great thought a tablet based UMPC and it had a lot of very interesting features including the virtual thumb based keyboards, but the reality of using it was a less than pleasing experience. I watched a few movies on it as recorded by my Media Center, had some fun posting to picture sites and the like but in the end its bang for the buck was small.

It was a really nice Skype machine because of the excellent dual microphones and good sound in general, but there are not a lot things beyond those I have listed. I'm not sure your average "road warrior" or business joe (or joelene) is right for a tablet. Your options for text entry are limited without another keyboard and slow in general.

To be sure there are places for tablets. Medical and any job that requires the filling in of lot's of electric forms are excellent tablet prospects. We are beginning to see them ruggedized for outdoor use and that is great too, but for your average business person? I don't see it happening. Even the UMPC concept as envisioned as an ultra cool consumer satellite computer for music, video and light web duties is being supplanted by the likes of the iPhone. I think Samsung sold something like 300,000 units of the Q1 and at least it kept them in the market for version two and three.

Which leads us to this eePC and light notebook concept. This one has legs, because the trade-offs are not as big and the price tag for playing is low. Its a form factor that people understand and can work with. If HP is really having 2,000,000 of these built, I believe they will sell them.

An Apple version of this, perhaps a Macbook "Breeze" or something like that I think it would have real market appeal. You'd have to do it for a lower than air price point of course. $799-$899 would be good. I think they would sell a bundle. I'd buy one and leave the MBP at home more often.

 

[gcmexico]

damn harsh

Yes, and that's really what I was getting at. The potential of the pre-show hype that they were coming out with an ultra-portable design made think Apple was going to do something useful, like release something in the EeePC, OXO, or MID category. Instead, what they gave us was "ho hum", in my opinion.



Yup, and with its resolution, you can still get a good visual experience while getting closer to it (like you're intended to on an iPhone or Nokia N8x0). Not ideal, but good enough on the road. And when you get to a destination, you're just as good as with any laptop: you hook it up to a real display, a real keyboard, and a mouse.



Yup. If Apple enters this market before I'm able to snatch up the Linux version of the HP, I'll get the Apple version. I'd like to have ANY excuse from Apple to stay on their platforms. But, since the draconian iPhone debacle in Sept, the dreadful lack of no-brainer features on the iTouch (bluetooth, the same apps that were on the iPhone, from day one instead of 6 months later for an extra fee), I've been steadily grown more disillusioned by Apple.

In the last year, I've moved from Apple Mail (was my favorite mail client since 1990 when I started using Nextstep, but the last few years it had more and more feature problems) to Thunderbird, from Safari to Firefox (again, too many mis-features and missing features on Safari), and when I got my N800, I saw that the Linux community had finally "gotten it" with respect to GUI quality. So why WOULDN'T I go to a Linux UMPC if Apple isn't going to get their crap in order?

But, if Apple doesn't show me that there's still some actual interesting things going on over there (and, no, the iPhone, iTouch, and MBA don't qualify, in my book), then I'll be going with the Linux version of the HP UMPC when it comes out.

**What did Apple do to you? Seems like you have made up your mind and have moved passed Apple, let it go, no need to gripe

Plain and simple that laptop is ugly has hell, you can explain it every way possible but it's still ugly! My MBA rocks, my Imac rocks, and my Iphone rocks!!

By the way Apple rocks!

 

[jlbrown23]

That thing looks awful. The MOST important part of any computer for non-gamers is THE SCREEN, and a sub-9" screen renders the thing almost unusable(not to mention the sin of ALL THAT SPACE around the screen). Add the tiny keyboard and it looks like an awful user experience - certainly not usable for any sort of heavy use.

The Air has a full keyboard, a great screen and it is light(I always scratch my head when people talk about footprint. Who gives a **** about footprint? Has anyone ever said "my shoulder hurts from carrying around this laptop with a large footprint"? I think Apple did a great job with the Air - it made the right sacrifices and didn't make any of the wrong ones. They're pushing the limits of weight while minimizing sacrifices on the most critical aspects needed for usability. Input(keyboard/track pad), output(screen) and networking(wireless) MUST be maintained because they are THE THINGS THAT MATTER MOST(if you don't believe that, travel to China for 3 weeks with a single laptop as your only tool for 70 hour work weeks. Wished I had an Air with me, but my IBM X40 was great. A 9" screen would have been miserable. Do the math on the AREA difference - it is HALF). Everything else is up for negotiation to save some weight. This HP thingy sacrifices input and output, 2/3 of the critical components, and doesn't really give back much weight savings for it. If it really does cost $600 that alone is enough to justify it for a lot of people because that is a pretty big price difference, but you take a huge hit in functionality for that price. It really isn't a full computer - it's closer to a bulky iPod Touch with some additional functionality than a budget MacBook. Which to me is the mistake - with the SDK(, the Touch/iPhone will blow this thing out of the water. If you are giving up all that function, why not have it slip easily in to your pocket?

 

[mungopark]

Oh no not again !

Its useless to discuss pros and cons of a laptop if you never have had one in your hands - I have the MBA and I really like it, its lightweight, small and fast enough for what I do with it on the road - I dont miss any interface nor the DVD when I am traveling and give presentations and I dont want a bulky looking something black brick.

 

[mac-slap-happy]

I actually ordered one of these yesterday. Will I like it? Only time will tell.

I can say that a device like this DOES fit my needs. I'm a DBA who is pretty much on call 24/7, and though I've came to terms with that I have been longing for something more portable than my current work machine (Thinkpad T42). Before the haters come out of the woodwork, I'm required to run Windows for work - my Macs are my home / web design computers.

With the Thinkpad, I couldn't really just grab the laptop, get on the motorcycle, and go to the park for a few hours. I don't have saddlebags on the motorcycle (don't like 'em), and the only real space available is the small bag between the handlebars. This laptop will fit in that bag - a MBA will not, nor would any standard sized laptop.

The reviews state it is underpowered due to the VIA processor, but for my purposes that should be fine. All I really need is the ability to whip this out if needed, pull up an SSH session to a server and take care of business. For my purposes, a super small machine like this is exactly what I've been needing for a while. I've just not been willing to live with 800x600 resolution the eee PC is stuck with or I would have purchased one last year.

I guess what I'm saying is that it entirely depends on your needs as to whether or not this will be useful.

 

[netdog]

Well, it's certainly thickerer.

 

[ProwlingTiger]

Oooo linux. Doesnt Dell do that for some machines? Or, is it that hard to download linux, or request a free cd? Big whoop. Whats that screen size? Kind of small. I guess if you like squinting....

For the record, I've tried ubuntu. Never will I go back to it.

 

[weckart]

Whats that screen size? Kind of small. I guess if you like squinting....

So how do you like squinting at your iPod Touch?