iPad I ditched my iPad and used Microsoft Surface 3 for a month

[Digitalguy]

Don’t know which spec one you get. I got the 4GB+128GB with LTE one, it performs okay. It runs FULL version of Microsoft Office while I am able to open few tabs on Chrome. So it is not too bad for a less than $150.

I admit that it is slow as hell when Windows doing some updates. And Windows update is kind annoying.

I don’t use it on lap, when I am on the go I use touch screen. It isn’t best, but it is doable.

I had the exact same model. Still have it but don't use it because the battery swell making it unusable... (partly my fault because I kept it plugged in all the time which is bad for the battery).

At $150 it's fine. I got a Surface go 2 (128GB SSD, not emmc, and 8GB RAM) with LTE and M3 for $240 (open box, one year warranty) last month, plus a keyboard for $50 separately. I still had a magnetic pen from my now dead surface pro.
I consider this a great deal, it's a much faster device than the surface 3, not even close, feels like a regular laptop.
It could replace my 10.5in iPad pro as pen an paper for my business in the future when the iPad battery degrades too much...
I added a 512GB microsd too.
The additional benefits of Windows are welcome and the speed tradeoff is not too bad.
I think the bottleneck of the surface 3 was the emmc more than it's atom CPU, with a proper SSD it could have been a more pleasant device.

 

[Aoligei]

I had the exact same model. Still have it but don't use it because the battery swell making it unusable... (partly my fault because I kept it plugged in all the time which is bad for the battery).

At $150 it's fine. I got a Surface go 2 (128GB SSD, not emmc, and 8GB RAM) with LTE and M3 for $240 (open box, one year warranty) last month, plus a keyboard for $50 separately. I still had a magnetic pen from my now dead surface pro.
I consider this a great deal, it's a much faster device than the surface 3, not even close, feels like a regular laptop.
It could replace my 10.5in iPad pro as pen an paper for my business in the future when the iPad battery degrades too much...
I added a 512GB microsd too.
The additional benefits of Windows are welcome and the speed tradeoff is not too bad.
I think the bottleneck of the surface 3 was the emmc more than it's atom CPU, with a proper SSD it could have been a more pleasant device.

The Surface 3 was my entry to Surface line. I choose it because I don’t want spend to much money if it. It came with keyboard cover and pen for $150.

I will able to reuse the pen at least when I purchase Surface Pro 9.

P.S. I managed to get Surface Pro 5 with Core i5 and 256GB with keyboard cover and pen for $180. Only thing is the half touch screen is not functional due to crack. I am still getting Surface Pro 9 when Boxing Day comes.

 

[Digitalguy]

The Surface 3 was my entry to Surface line. I choose it because I don’t want spend to much money if it. It came with keyboard cover and pen for $150.

I will able to reuse the pen at least when I purchase Surface Pro 9.

P.S. I managed to get Surface Pro 5 with Core i5 and 256GB with keyboard cover and pen for $180. Only thing is the half touch screen is not functional due to crack. I am still getting Surface Pro 9 when Boxing Day comes.

Pretty great deal for the 3. I have been a surface users for as long as I have been an iPad user, but I now mainly use my Surface Book 3 15 (amazing device) at home and a regular clamshell with LTE on the go (I need lappability on the go).

 

[bcortens]

We or I?
I want ai-based apps that will just do my work for me and never ask me to even look at a computer, but

…but I’d settle for a $2500 ipad being able to edit video in FCP.

We, generally there are many people in this forum who agree with me when I write posts about how we like the iPad OS UX.

Why? If you really want to edit video in modern FCP you need a mac, FCP is not designed for touch. If you want an FCP designed with touch in mind then that’s on Apple to bring it to the iPad not on Apple to add macOS to the iPad.
I disagree with the idea that we should bifurcate the iPad into two modes, a touch mode and a desktop mode, because I think we are seeing (with iPad OS 15 and 16) that we don’t need to do this. iPad OS 16 with the more space display scaling option shows that touch targets can be made slightly smaller and still work while also better accommodating pointing devices on the iPad. iPad OS is already most of the way there for supporting both touch and pointer we just need a bit more finesse, then we need the apps, and the apps are where things are lacking.

 

[bcortens]

The iPad pro M1 is probably my last iPad.
It is a nice toy but nothing more.

Myself by contrast wish I could justify the 12” M2 iPad Pro since I want the screen real estate … to me, with Liquid text, it is a fantastic research tool. I also quite like OmniGraffle and keynote but can’t quite fully get away from the mac for Keynote because of a few of the animation limitations.

 

[koelsh]

I hope not...
This is them giving up and admits they have failed to design a developer ecosystem that works.

That's the funny part because it has failed and it would be healthier for everyone for them if they admitted it.

WHEN there's an issue with iPadOS the only thing we can do is wait and hope that someone at Apple is paying attention and deems the problem worthy of fixing. Whereas with macOS being a mature platform where we happen to have more than one way to do things we can work around them.

For instance, website not working in Safari? There are others we can run instead.
App has a bugged preference? We can delete just the preferences and relaunch the app instead of having to delete and redownload everything.
Client emailed two dozen photos we need to cull duplicates from and make into a PDF with text recognition and upload to our project manager? on macOS it's download, delete, combine, upload. iPadOS? It asks why would you want to do that and then makes fun of you for it.


The biggest thing is, all of this would be solved if Apple would make a touchscreen Mac.

 

[AppleTO]

I gave away my iPad Pro to a family member a couple weeks after purchasing an M1 MacBook Air. For a while, I had completely forgot I even ever had one.

 

[timber]

From my experience with all those devices (and yours may be different and that is OK)

iPad OS sucks at anything not tablet like. That is why I only buy regular iPads, the others are not worth it.

Notebooks excel at being notebooks and for my taste are the only real jack of all trades particularly considering the current M powered light and silent MBs.

Surface is OKish at everything and not great at anything, the OS is poor at touch apps and the device itself too cumbersome and also doesn't make a good notebook. Some may like the compromises, I don't.

 

[koelsh]

The iPad pro M1 is probably my last iPad.
It is a nice toy but nothing more.

My previous iPad was essentially a portable TV I'd occasionally use to send an email or read a PDF.

When the M1 came out I was excited to have something powerful enough to get real work done... a year later and it's a portable TV I occasionally use to send an email...

My 1TB M1 iPad Pro is over twice as powerful as my 2018 Intel MacBook Pro and both have the same storage and RAM, however my iPad is only capable of a tiny fraction as much as the MacBook. That much money would have accomplished far far more if I'd purchased an M1 laptop instead.

Edit: what's really disheartening is my MacBook has 16GB of RAM and I can run as many things as I want at the same time, yes it'll gradually slow down because of it... Meanwhile, my iPad even with 16GB of RAM still unloads webpages and apps almost as often as I've seen iPads with only 4GB of RAM.

 

[bcortens]

That's the funny part because it has failed and it would be healthier for everyone for them if they admitted it.

I think it has failed too. The App Store was great but it has become a tool for profit rather than being a great way to discover and pay for apps…

WHEN there's an issue with iPadOS the only thing we can do is wait and hope that someone at Apple is paying attention and deems the problem worthy of fixing. Whereas with macOS being a mature platform where we happen to have more than one way to do things we can work around them.

macOS on iPad will fail to support touch … maybe the EU legislation requiring side-loading will make this all moot and we just install what we want and developers can monetize directly.
Also, macOS is not a mature platform for touch, and macOS doesn’t get nearly enough love from Apple to justify your hope in it. After all they just threw away a stable mature framework (App Kit) to chase faddish new trends (SwiftUI).

For instance, website not working in Safari? There are others we can run instead.
App has a bugged preference? We can delete just the preferences and relaunch the app instead of having to delete and redownload everything.
Client emailed two dozen photos we need to cull duplicates from and make into a PDF with text recognition and upload to our project manager? on macOS its download, delete, combine, upload. iPadOS? It asks why would you want to do that and then makes fun of you for it.

For safari, again, hopefully the EU legislation will open this up.
For the photos… not sure, maybe there is a quick duplicate culling program on iPad OS but since this isn’t a workflow I use I have no idea how you’d do this, though since I don’t know the steps on macOS either (delete, combine and upload are doing a lot of work to hide complexity in that sentence).

The biggest thing is, all of this would be solved if Apple would make a touchscreen Mac.

This would also get everyone who wants one lot leave us iPad lovers alone.

 

[bcortens]

My previous iPad was essentially a portable TV I'd occasionally use to send an email or read a PDF.

When the M1 came out I was excited to have something powerful enough to get real work done... a year later and it's a portable TV I occasionally use to send an email...

My 1TB M1 iPad Pro is over twice as powerful as my 2018 Intel MacBook Pro and both have the same storage and RAM, however my iPad is only capable of a tiny fraction as much as the MacBook. That much money would have accomplished far far more if I'd purchased an M1 laptop instead.

Yes, if you don’t think you can work with an iPad, and many of us can get most of the way there with our preferred device, then don’t buy one. I think the iPad should continue to get better but people should stop buying things based on future hope, buy what will let you get work done now if you need it for work…

 

[koelsh]

I think it has failed too. The App Store was great but it has become a tool for profit rather than being a great way to discover and pay for apps…



macOS on iPad will fail to support touch … maybe the EU legislation requiring side-loading will make this all moot and we just install what we want and developers can monetize directly.
Also, macOS is not a mature platform for touch, and macOS doesn’t get nearly enough love from Apple to justify your hope in it. After all they just threw away a stable mature framework (App Kit) to chase faddish new trends (SwiftUI).



For safari, again, hopefully the EU legislation will open this up.
For the photos… not sure, maybe there is a quick duplicate culling program on iPad OS but since this isn’t a workflow I use I have no idea how you’d do this, though since I don’t know the steps on macOS either (delete, combine and upload are doing a lot of work to hide complexity in that sentence).



This would also get everyone who wants one lot leave us iPad lovers alone.

The only reason macOS isn't mature for touch is that Apple hasn't been working on it whereas Microsoft has been working on making Windows touch capable for 20 years (with greater and lesser success). It was a fear of mine where for years Apple had seemingly (clearly) abandoned the Mac between 2014 and 2019.

It would be great if legislation could force Apple to allow other browser engines as Safari since 2019 has been getting less and less usable. There's a half dozen sites I use for work that simply don't load on Safari at all.
As for side loading that would go a long way however it doesn't solve the system level problems inherent to iPadOS such as the Files and Mail apps not having smart folders or how Stage Manger requires more managing than anything.

As you say about the workflow that's the beauty of macOS as you can use a multitude of workflows according to what's needed not the one way Apple has deemed worthy of blessing. I didn't write out the full workflow to keep the post readable though I can write the full version if you'd like. The point being is that workflow is possible on macOS with the included tools whereas on iPad it requires downloading or purchasing a separate app, if it's even possible.

 

[jwolf6589]

iPad to me is a devices with powerful hardware but limited by the software. In one hand, Apple trying to make a distinctive line between iPad and Mac; And in other hand, Apple is trying to make iPadOS more mac-a-like. It is more apparent with iPadOS 16 with the awkward attempt of Stage Managers. Although I have own several iPads over years, I have been been fan of it. Most of time, my iPads are end up in my drawers.

As a person who was born in 80s. I started with Microsoft Windows 3.1 and used every version of Windows (with exception of Windows Me) and I also used every version of macOS starting Leopard. To me, desktop class OS offers usability and versatility that no mobile OS can match, including iPadOS.

Recently I bought a very cheap Microsoft Surface 3. It is the higher end model with 4GB and 128GB storage. And I give it a try for a month, and I am surprised by the versatility of the Surface and things I could do.

The Surface 3 runs full version of Windows 10 Professional. It runs all Windows applications. I don't need to go to App Store to get applications, I don’t have go through bunch of hoops to transfer files, I don’t need to adjust myself to mobile OS, I can simply plug in peripherals and expect it to work. When I am paying thousands of dollars to a computing devices, I am expecting it to work and not to adjust my habit. I can plug in external monitor as secondary display, and it will work. I don’t need to spend more than one thousand dollars to get all of these. And all of these were powered by Intel Atom processors. If Intel Atom processors are able to handle this, there is no reason why much more powerful iPad can’t do.

My 2018 iPad Pro is up in the Facebook Marketplace for sale and I am intended to purchase Surface Pro 9 as replacement. i am keeping cellular iPad 7 for cellular connectivity.

P.S. Everybody is talking about integration between iPhone, iPad and Mac. Well, aside of phone. Surface devices kind take job of iPad and Mac. So the only missing piece is the phone part.

Why are you posting this?

 

[koelsh]

Yes, if you don’t think you can work with an iPad, and many of us can get most of the way there with our preferred device, then don’t buy one. I think the iPad should continue to get better but people should stop buying things based on future hope, buy what will let you get work done now if you need it for work…

Yea, if I knew then what I know now I'd have gotten the iPad mini instead.

Counter point though is you have to work with a system for a time to find out if it's going to accomplish what you want. When I bought the M1 iPad it was getting me most of the way with what I needed to do and it is my preferred device as the form factor is so much nicer than a laptop. However, it's death by 10,000 "sorry can't do that"s that one does not find out until having worked with it for a year.

 

[Username-already-in-use]

OK, nice - enjoy whatever works for you.

 

[bcortens]

The only reason macOS isn't mature for touch is that Apple hasn't been working on it whereas Microsoft has been working on making Windows touch capable for 20 years (with greater and lesser success). It was a fear of mine where for years Apple had seemingly (clearly) abandoned the Mac between 2014 and 2019.

So how is this going to be fixed by letting macOS on the iPad? They haven’t been working on it, at this point opening up the iPad OS restrictions by allowing sideloading (which would allow alternative browser engines) is far smaller an engineering ask than would be rearchitecting macOS for touch.

It would be great if legislation could force Apple to allow other browser engines as Safari since 2019 has been getting less and less usable. There's a half dozen sites I use for work that simply don't load on Safari at all.
As for side loading that would go a long way however it doesn't solve the system level problems inherent to iPadOS such as the Files and Mail apps not having smart folders or how Stage Manger requires more managing than anything.

I am strongly onboard with the stage manager hate. Smart folders are an apple problem — but again, adding smart folders to mail on iPad is likely easier than rebuilding macOS fortouch.

As you say about the workflow that's the beauty of macOS as you can use a multitude of workflows according to what's needed not the one way Apple has deemed worthy of blessing. I didn't write out the full workflow to keep the post readable though I can write the full version if you'd like. The point being is that workflow is possible on macOS with the included tools whereas on iPad it requires downloading or purchasing a separate app, if it's even possible.

Not necessary, nice to know that the built in tools on macOS are so capable. It is a big ask but I think we should keep pushing Apple to make iPad OS better (give it these tools) rather than giving up on it.

 

[Bobbuilds69]

I use Microsoft Remote Desktop on my iPad Air and it basically becomes a Microsoft Surface.

 

[bcortens]

I use Microsoft Remote Desktop on my iPad Air and it basically becomes a Microsoft Surface.

I actually have a VNC client on my iPad Pro that I use when I need something from macOS, I just connect to my MBP.

 

[MBAir2010]

Only way to find out if the grass is truly greener I guess !

Just be careful of the weeds and hidden brown spots!

 

[Osxguy]

I think they should advertise it as a media device with some features.. Apple did a poor job of creating the iPad os they should give up and give it the full power of the Mac with a touch screen. I work with retirees and over and over they touch their MacBook Pro screen to do something... then realize it has a mouse and use it. Is there a reason they haven't give up on the iPadOS and just stick Mac OS on it. Especially now that they are using the M1 chip?

 

[bcortens]

I think they should advertise it as a media device with some features.. Apple did a poor job of creating the iPad os they should give up and give it the full power of the Mac with a touch screen. I work with retirees and over and over they touch their MacBook Pro screen to do something... then realize it has a mouse and use it. Is there a reason they haven't give up on the iPadOS and just stick Mac OS on it. Especially now that they are using the M1 chip?

No. iPad OS is mostly pretty well designed, there are some things they need to fix, file system is slow and external device support isn’t great.

MacOS isn’t optimized for touch and is unlikely to get the work required, many many many people love the iPad or it wouldn’t sell as well as it does to so many people.

They should make a touchscreen mac .. that is what you and others want.. not an iPad but a touchscreen mac, So advocate for that not making the iPad worse with macOS.

 

[bag99001]

iPad to me is a devices with powerful hardware but limited by the software. In one hand, Apple trying to make a distinctive line between iPad and Mac; And in other hand, Apple is trying to make iPadOS more mac-a-like. It is more apparent with iPadOS 16 with the awkward attempt of Stage Managers. Although I have own several iPads over years, I have been been fan of it. Most of time, my iPads are end up in my drawers.

As a person who was born in 80s. I started with Microsoft Windows 3.1 and used every version of Windows (with exception of Windows Me) and I also used every version of macOS starting Leopard. To me, desktop class OS offers usability and versatility that no mobile OS can match, including iPadOS.

Recently I bought a very cheap Microsoft Surface 3. It is the higher end model with 4GB and 128GB storage. And I give it a try for a month, and I am surprised by the versatility of the Surface and things I could do.

The Surface 3 runs full version of Windows 10 Professional. It runs all Windows applications. I don't need to go to App Store to get applications, I don’t have go through bunch of hoops to transfer files, I don’t need to adjust myself to mobile OS, I can simply plug in peripherals and expect it to work. When I am paying thousands of dollars to a computing devices, I am expecting it to work and not to adjust my habit. I can plug in external monitor as secondary display, and it will work. I don’t need to spend more than one thousand dollars to get all of these. And all of these were powered by Intel Atom processors. If Intel Atom processors are able to handle this, there is no reason why much more powerful iPad can’t do.

My 2018 iPad Pro is up in the Facebook Marketplace for sale and I am intended to purchase Surface Pro 9 as replacement. i am keeping cellular iPad 7 for cellular connectivity.

P.S. Everybody is talking about integration between iPhone, iPad and Mac. Well, aside of phone. Surface devices kind take job of iPad and Mac. So the only missing piece is the phone part.

Good luck. All on "paper" makes sense..in real life usage, a surface is far less reliable. Speaking from personal experience, the surface is just not as reliable a device to even turn on without there being a battery problem or software reset/malfunction due to the complications of Windows, or hardware disconnection issue on the keyboard or pen.

 

[MBAir2010]

I gave away my iPad Pro to a family member a couple weeks after purchasing an M1 MacBook Air. For a while, I had completely forgot I even ever had one.

That MacBook Air is incredible, I went 21 hours and still had 20% battery left.
Only 1 minute to import 50GB of music and videos, and very stylish!

just everything about that states the progression of the products apple makes this decade.
a far cry from the later years of last decade.

 

[jwolf6589]

I think they should advertise it as a media device with some features.. Apple did a poor job of creating the iPad os they should give up and give it the full power of the Mac with a touch screen. I work with retirees and over and over they touch their MacBook Pro screen to do something... then realize it has a mouse and use it. Is there a reason they haven't give up on the iPadOS and just stick Mac OS on it. Especially now that they are using the M1 chip?

I have no problem or issues at all with IPadOS and I use it daily.

 

[bcortens]

I have no problem or issues at all with IPadOS and I use it daily.

I have issues with Stage Manager but I too use iPad OS every day and it is my favourite OS Apple makes currently.