The myth of cannibalism ends when you realise they don’t compete with themselves - they also compete with those Android tablets you mentioned. If there was an easy way to make iPads better they would do it, because they wouldn’t loss sales to competitors, and they would gain a lot of traditional PC market (remember Apple is much weaker on PCs than tablets, so they would have much more field to win). I thinks it’s a business decision, but much simpler: the iPad is the most successful tablet concept, so why would they make it more Android or Windows-like?
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iPad I ditched my iPad and used Microsoft Surface 3 for a month
- Thread starter Aoligei
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I do far more than read, watch videos, or draw illustrations. Of course the iPad can’t replace a computer for everyone - but there are numerous people for whom it can. Web forums like this have a propensity for attracting people who believe everyone shares their narrow needs, and so anything that doesn’t fit that is a toy. Not so. My own experience directly contradicts your belief.
I like the simplicity of the iPad OS. It’s quite refreshing after being on a Windows desktop all day at work, or even compared to my tower at home. I’m not arguing against making iPads more capable. I’m arguing against making them touchscreen Macs, which is apparently what you want, instead of just buying a Mac in the first place. You can already get 99% of what you want with a MacBook. Do you want touch so much that the remaining 1% is a dealbreaker?
Yes, I know. I wrote it that way on purpose. You still don’t reach for one first if you want to cut down a tree, you grab it when it fits your needs, instead of trying to shoehorn it into every role.
In my experience, they’re still ahead with the CPU, screen, and GPU; Samsung tends to oversaturate their screens, their SoCs are weaker, and Android’s tablet software offerings are well behind iPad OS. Stage Manager is cumbersome? Interesting, I feel the opposite. I know a handful of people with Tabs, and none use DeX. I’m sure there are people out there who like it, but I haven’t met one in real life yet.
In the past decades, I have used computers for learning quite often.
An iPad is simply not a replacement for a "real" PC. Especially in a learning environment, it lacks the mouse and keyboard, the multi-tasking ability and the screen size. I often have multiple PDFs open, the lab environment, the online (voice) chat, forums and some browsers for looking into issues that arise. Sometimes I need to run several VMs or use dedicated software.
And then there are the very basic tasks, such as just writing a document (like a university homework or paper) with LaTeX, generating a PDF and checking the source files into a repository.
I really like the idea of an ipad, but it's not really a device for a learning environment in my view.
My ipad also broke yesterday, which is why I'm moving away with apple with the successor. One device with a failing display after the warranty might be bad luck, but a second device doing the same is for me symptomatic of poor hardware quality. I like iOS, but the successor must simply have a cheaper TCO. Currently looking into Samsung (premium) and Lenovo (budget) android tablets. I'm a bit averse to Windows (I use it for gaming only), but I'm also reading through the experiences of surface users.
The "iPad" for me is >95% browsing/webapps (with external keyboard), playing back youtube and ssh client.
I also maintain that controlling a PC is most effective via CLI. I've used GUIs for decades and I grew up with touch and voice as well. The first device with touch device I operated was in 1989 in a fancy building. 10 years later I already had my own PDA with touch interface (and keyboard). Also by that time, there were the first voice recognition and text to speech systems. And until now, they haven't improved much in my view. Siri is still too dumb to restart the wifi interface of the iphone for example, or put it in/out of access point mode - and when the phone doesn't have internet, Siri fails completely.
It has nothing to do with being powered by Intel Atom or anything. It’s about the primary input. Unfortunately, some stuff (particularly if it needs precision) is harder to do with touch-based interfaces. That’s why the iPad excels at professional use cases that don’t need extreme precision. And that’s why the Surface is almost always used as a traditional computer. Ok, it’s a good computer, but then… what are we talking about? I thought it’s about tablets, not traditional computers.
I had similar feeling regarding to phones. While iPhone 7 was rather very fine phone to me, and Samsung S6 was alike computer in a pocket.
Probably, this is their general approach.
The way Samsung implements windowing makes more sense and is more friendly for multi-tasking than Apple’s preselected window size and placement in iPadOS’s version of Stage Manager. Why Apple didn’t allow Stage Manager to function on iPadOS the way it does on macOS where you resize and place windows anywhere/anyway you’d like is lost on me. I stopped using Stage Manager entirely on my iPad Pro.
As far as Samsung hardware, I’ve seen many tests and it’s not the least bit underpowered. iPads are simply overpowered for what software and apps are available. I’m not complaining because I’ve got lots of headroom for years, but let’s not pretend Samsung’s are slow or underpowered.
I use my ipad to teach in the classroom and I can’t imagine having it replaced by a windows tablet for this purpose. Everything would be worse. Touch support. Apps. Battery life. Cellular connectivity. Portability. Ease of use.
The ipad worked for me precisely because it was so different from a conventional PC, rather than trying to emulate one. To use a more appropriate analogy, the ipad is a hammer, while the windows laptop (and PCs) in general are screwdrivers. Prior to the introduction of the ipad, that’s what trying to use a windows laptop in class was like for me - like trying to hammer in nails with a screwdriver. It was just so frustrating. I bought my first iPad in 2012 and I haven’t looked back since.
I am glad that I have choice in this regard. A giant iPod touch for use in the classroom, a windows laptop for work in school (kinda need that to access network files), and my choice of an imac or MBA at home depending on my needs. The right tool for the right job.
So when you say that the ipad will never come close to replacing a laptop, my response is “I sure hope so”.
I’m taking about doing real work that cannot be done in an iPad.
Well, sometimes. I think it depends on too many variables. For a lot of people, you’re correct - but for many (including myself) the iPad has completely taken over for my Windows PC.
I guess I should have been more specific. There too many advanced tasks that are simply not conducive to an iPad. Sure you can create notes and email but not do any kind of intense work requiring real hardware. Not just graphics, video, 3D but much more. Anyhoo, use what works best for you is the answer. And I just can’t imagine using an iPad for real work. Might as well use my iPhone.
Stage Manager makes sense to me. It simply doesn’t fit your particular needs, while it does mine.
I didn’t say it was underpowered, I only said Apple’s were better. So far as Apple’s being overpowered, if one uses iPads purely for entertainment, then yes. For those of us who do more, they’re not. And in any event, who cares? The same has been true for desktops and laptops for at least a decade now. If you don’t need anything more than a basic processor, then don’t buy it, no matter what platform you’re on.
Same. I am also talking about work that I am doing on an iPad which I wouldn't be able to do as well on a PC.
I also challenge the notion of "real work". A lot of people just can’t seem to see past their own noses. "Productivity" is often limited to programming, excel, and CAD, as if no other type of profession exists.
Which basically sums up every other thread like this one. If you need a PC for PC-like tasks, then please get a PC, rather than try to force the iPad to be something it is not. A screwdriver is not a flawed design simply because it can't hammer in nails as efficiently as a hammer. It just means that the right tool for the job is not being used.
If the world demands that the iPad run macOS (or something equivalent), then I will fight the world that demands it.
No, Geekbench is fine. The performance is there for other stuff. It's just the browsers that are much slower on Android compared to iPadOS.Good example that cross-platform benchmarking is rubbish
If you need to use a stylus for annotating, especially Word documents, Surface devices are as good or better than iPads in my experience
Samsung tablets are not slow per se, it's the browsers that are much slower than they could be. And yes for simple browsing even a 2015 iPad pro is totally fine. Then when you use desktop optimized sites (not the mobile versions) you feel the difference.
I can share some specific examples based on my experiences as a teacher for well over a decade.
1) Teaching in class, my pdf documents are stored in notability. My iPad is mirrored to the Apple TV, which frees me up to walk around the class. Annotating on them is a breeze thanks to the Apple Pencil. The overall experience is so much better compared to windows where the UI is less optimised for touch.
Mobile apps also strike the right balance of simplicity and functionality for me. I use scanner pro to scan documents to pdf, lumafusion to edit videos, screen recording for screencasts, shortcuts and the camera app as a makeshift visualiser.
On the consumption side, I use overcast, Tweetbot, Apollo and a variety of reader apps.
I suppose a surface tablet could do them, but intel + windows have never really made for a great combination.
2) When I went overseas with my students and was tasked with blogging about the daily experiences, I brought only my iPad along. Again, the same benefits apply (thinner and lighter than a laptop, blogging was a breeze due to the native Wordpress app, inbuilt camera app, long battery life, inbuilt cellular, and the form factor lending itself particularly well to being used while on the move or on my lap on the bus).
3) When I am reviewing or reading documents while lounging on the bed or sofa (which is a large part of my work as a teacher), a tablet is so much more accessible than a laptop.
4) It's great for presentations as well.
The common advantages that have led me to continue working from the iPad this last decade are that the iPad is this perfect blend of battery life, ease of use and portability for me. Which I think is often overlooked amidst the discussion of what the iPad cannot do and how it needs more functionality. Complexity is not the key selling point of the iPad here. Simplicity is.
You’re just defining things the way that suits you to say that real work can’t be done on an iPad - this is just sophistry.
I disagree, but even then, I’m not talking about using a stylus. A stylus can be a good accessory, but it shouldn’t be the primary input; I’m talking about an interface adapted to fingers.
I literally said, "Nothing is perfect," but we're talking about generalization of issues. We were talking surfaces versus iPad and you bring up a traditional laptop form factor in a thinkpad which doesn't have the overengineering of the surfaces.
Good luck to you in your computing choice. I've made mine.
Thanks bud , I discovered my mistake yesterday, I thought the laptop also had a detachable screen lol. Still tactile thoMicrosoft has a Surface 3 and a Surface Laptop 3, the Surface 3 is a few years old tablet with a pretty weak processor but a very nice screen for the era.
I had a Surface 3 for about 6 years, mostly used for OneNote, but had to part ways with it when the battery started expanding and I didn't want to have a time bomb kicking around the house.
That's the way you use a tablet. I don't use tablets on a couch as Steve Jobs intended. I don't use onscreen keyboards.
Everyone has different uses... and may claim their use is the one that was intended.
Annotating documents is one of the main uses for me and Windwos devices are generally just as good as iPads for annotating.
I can't be bothered to read all the posts in yet another iPad vs Surface post. But I will add this. - I use both.
I use one of my iPads when I want the speed of being able to conveniently open/edit PDFs on the go, do web browsing, or other tasks that are not too taxing.
If I need to get some proper work done on the go, I either user my macBookPro, or one of the Surfaces I have. Trying work with with Office on the go, on an iPad is not productive for me. It takes much longer to complete tasks over doing them on the Surface or Mac. And some tasks are impossible to without an internet connection like use Xcode or Visual Studio.
It seems a bit of a waste having an M2 iPad Pro, knowing what it's capable in the MBP. But it is what it is. For convenience I still prefer iPadOS over a desktop OS. But when real works needs doing quickly, I can't be more productive than I am on a desktop OS, that can run full-fat programs, and has an unrestricted filing system.
Those older Surface Pros, and even the latest Surface Go 3 are quite capable devices, And that comes from someone that uses Macs 80% of the time.
I use one of my iPads when I want the speed of being able to conveniently open/edit PDFs on the go, do web browsing, or other tasks that are not too taxing.
If I need to get some proper work done on the go, I either user my macBookPro, or one of the Surfaces I have. Trying work with with Office on the go, on an iPad is not productive for me. It takes much longer to complete tasks over doing them on the Surface or Mac. And some tasks are impossible to without an internet connection like use Xcode or Visual Studio.
It seems a bit of a waste having an M2 iPad Pro, knowing what it's capable in the MBP. But it is what it is. For convenience I still prefer iPadOS over a desktop OS. But when real works needs doing quickly, I can't be more productive than I am on a desktop OS, that can run full-fat programs, and has an unrestricted filing system.
Those older Surface Pros, and even the latest Surface Go 3 are quite capable devices, And that comes from someone that uses Macs 80% of the time.
Agreed. The size and of power of the iPad should mean it runs an OS closer to macOS, not iOS.
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