Yeah the sad part of iPadOS is it’s a significantly less useful OS for the same given hardware specs as macOS.
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iPad I ditched my iPad and used Microsoft Surface 3 for a month
- Thread starter Aoligei
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very different personal experience with many Surface devices and personally I would take Windows any day over MacOS (despite most people here prefering MacOS for obvious reaons of a Mac-centric forum). It's not perfect but MacOS isn't either. Just like Surface devices, they sometimes have issues, but also iPads and Macs do...
Apple would then be forced to make touch a viable option on macOS. Which is easier, adding touch interactions to macOS or adding the 80% of features from macOS that are missing on iPadOS? Yes they haven't been working on it which just means they're 10 to 20 years behind.
I would contend adding touch is the shorter route as they already have much of that functionality from the trackpad. Swipes would be scrolls and forward/back function calls and so on.
Some would say that iPadOS should stay as simple as possible and to not add all the features of macOS. But that's also the point. It's not adding buttons and toolbars everywhere it's putting the functionality itself in so it can be used by those who need it. Sure Smart Folders is not something that every person using mail "needs" however anyone who's searched for the same thing in mail twice would benefit from it.
Without getting too far into Stage Manager yes, they missed the point of being able to resize apps and not have them overlapping. Being able to put 4 apps in each corner instead of literally shoulder to shoulder.
They really should have added smart folders a long time ago as it debuted on macOS something like 18 years ago and a single efficiency core in modern iPads is typically stronger than whole machines back then.
Indeed we should keep pushing Apple to make iPadOS better however after 10 years of them meandering around I'm out of hope they're going to. And it wouldn't be giving up on it, it would be iPadOS on touch devices for people who work better that way and macOS on touch devices for people who need to do more than watch TV and read the news.
We have been advocating for it. We've been asking Apple for it since the 90s and demanding it since 2011. Apple's only response has been "meh"
What we want is a touch device as portable as an iPad that is as capable as a MacBook. Is that iPadOS that's caught up with the times or is it a touchscreen Mac? I don't know. What I do know is iPadOS is missing so much functionality I have to go back to my Mac to accomplish even basic tasks.
To bring this full circle to the OP's post is he doesn't have any of this conundrum that we have. His device is running the same Windows you'd find on a tower PC. The only limitations on him is storage space, literal horsepower, and what he feels like doing today.
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I would argue that the iPad is not 80% missing features. I think it is more like 5-10% missing features, if you try to list them they end up being related to the closed ecosystem or small things that are mostly edge cases that don’t have a large detrimental impact on the main experience.
I think macOS is not nearly as close as you think it is. It would be a transition more jarring than apple silicon because it would mean not just a recompile but every single app would need to be reworked to make sure it works for touch. Every game, every app, every utility, somehow bringing in the command line, etc… this is not a small or easy task.
iPad OS needs to grow but it doesn’t need to replicate macOS.
I think the iPad would benefit from a menu button (that brings up the same menu that you can invoke via holding command when you have a keyboard connected) to make hidden features more accessible since they will be visible in a list.
Yes they should have added smart folders. Stage manager is a bad windowing paradigm that tries to reinvent the Mission Control wheel and does so badly.
Bringing macOS to iPads is giving up on improving the iPad for more complicated use cases, if they aren’t forced to innovate they wont. Modern Apple doesn’t appear capable of consistent focus on all of their platforms and seem to neglect them from time to time.
iPad OS is way way better than it was 10 years ago. iPad OS 15 finally got multitasking to a great place from a window management perspective. Lots of missing features but it was at least really good at the ones it had. The drag and drop within the multitasking switcher was an amazing improvement that really made it easy to quickly create and destroy app groups as needed (Stage manager breaks this feature so I leave Stage manager turned off on my iPad).
A touchscreen Mac should be a 2 in 1 convertible, since the mac is a keyboard and pointer first device.
An iPad by contrast, is touch first device.
If apple isn’t going to make a touchscreen mac why would you expect them to make an iPad with macOS? To me the only reason they would do this is because Tim Cook’s Apple does seem to have a habit of just shipping things when there is enough user complaints regardless of whether or not it’s a good idea. Ex: iOS 7 and iPad OS 7 responded to the users complaints about skeumorphism lead to a huge loss in power for the iPad as so many apps got so much simpler and therefore worse as the iPhone versions replaced the more complicated iPad versions. Pages UI is still borderline worse on iPad than it was back in the iPad OS 6 days because it still hasn’t got the quick format bar back.
These two platforms start at different points and should have different UX designs.
I actually don’t have this conundrum most of the time. The iPad gets me 90-95% of the way there already and i have a mac for those rare cases it doesn’t work. The iPad (for me) needs a few things mostly in the hands of app developers (including Apple) to take it seriously and bring ALL of the features from the desktop app to the iPad version. I don’t want the desktop apps moved over unmodified (even in pages where the macOS pages UI is better than the iPad version because the iPad version doesn’t adequately use the screen real estate - give me a right hand format pane!).
I don’t want macOS on my iPad I just want more investment in iPad Apps. Before Apple abandoned UIKit Catalyst had so so so much potential. Now we are stuck with Swift UI which is no where near as good on macOS as UIKit Catalyst was getting (in terms of performance and reliability).
The features I'm referring to are mostly OS level and would be too much to write here. I'll probably make a separate thread about "Things iPadOS literally cannot do" Sure plenty of them are "edge cases" however that doesn't mean they should be completely ignored.
I think macOS is far closer than you think it is. Have you used Windows on a touch screen? I'm not being snarky but genuinely asking if you have. Yes it's still Windows but it still runs pretty well. I've used it on both cheap touchscreen only devices and expensive systems with every peripheral available. They don't have to recompile any apps to make them work with touch. It's the HID system built into windows that translates "is this a tap/click or a scroll" which instructs the app on what to do and 99.999% of the time it reacts appropriately.
Sure iPadOS shouldn't "replicate" macOS in interface but I'm contending that if iPadOS is going to be a "computer" it needs to be a computer, not a large phone.
Yea, honestly I feel iPadOS 15 had the best balance. What was needed was "top and bottom" so you could have one on the left and 2 apps stacked vertically on the right or vice versa.
I'm not too sure that Apple hasn't already given up on improving iPad for more complicated use cases and that Stage Manager is either smoke and mirrors to quiet people down for a bit or them play testing some supposed AR headset interface.
iPadOS is indeed better than 10 years ago however between 1995 and 2005 both macOS and Windows made far more progress.
I would contend it doesn't have to be a convertible. Look at the Windows tablets, many of them get along fine with the onscreen keyboard. Yes not as fast as a hardware keyboard but no touch keyboard is going to be.
True, I don't expect them to make an iPad with macOS. I want them to make a touchscreen Mac. The shortest way to express that right now is to say iPad hardware with macOS software.
Yes, two different UX designs but that doesn't have to mean that one gets all the different interface options while the other gets all the functionality.
So you have the same experience then. You do have the conundrum whereas OP doesn't have it at all. The iPad gets you what you want 90-95% of the time which means you still have to have a separate Mac for the rest. If one device had the ease of portability of the iPad with the full functionality of macOS then you wouldn't need two separate machines. Software wise OP has a single device that can accomplish anything they want.
However, where they already have All of the features from the desktop app it means they now have to build it all again to bring it to an iPad version. You say don't bring desktop apps unmodified, it's working just fine on Windows.
I'm not necessarily advocating for Apple to drop iPadOS but there's a huge gulf between what the hardware for iPad is capable of and what they're allowing it to accomplish.
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I have the latest surface pro provided to my by my employer....I continue to use my M1 iPad Pro.
I'm glad you like yours. I've tried windows so many times over my life..had Windows PCs. Have to use for work sometimes still...but I always realize my mistake and go back to the far more reliable Apple ecosystem.
Nothing is perfect, but my iPad never turned on spontaneously all the time in my bag and died, making it unusable when without plugging in when I most needed it.
I never had to deal with the disconnect issues with the frequency I had with the surface from the pen and faulty design of the overly engineered surface keyboard connection. I've used a Surface Pro 3, Surface 3, and Surface Book. Junk. All had the same issues. Overly complicated engineering that fails repeatedly. It's a bad tablet and a mediocre laptop. Sales and usage (never see anyone using it as anything but a laptop in the wild) suggest it's nothing more than a unique design for a laptop you could THEORETICALLY use without but never will.
Wow thanks for this post ! Was actually thinking of making such a choice 
May I ask you a few questions about :
1)the battery. How does the battery compare between the two ? And which ipad did you use before ! 11 or 12.9?
2) ergonomics . How is it ?
3)overall performance (browsing, reading comics and books,editing pdf and pics)
4)quality of the screen . Surface displays look crappy to me , in store at least
I’m probably an idiot but I recently declined an opportunity to exchange my iPad Pro 12.9 2020 against a surface…
Surface laptop 3 ,15inch, 16/512, intel i7,4K screen... Damn I feel I made a mistake for selling my ipad for 700 euros instead of that deal
Please talk me out of it
May I ask you a few questions about :
1)the battery. How does the battery compare between the two ? And which ipad did you use before ! 11 or 12.9?
2) ergonomics . How is it ?
3)overall performance (browsing, reading comics and books,editing pdf and pics)
4)quality of the screen . Surface displays look crappy to me , in store at least
I’m probably an idiot but I recently declined an opportunity to exchange my iPad Pro 12.9 2020 against a surface…
Surface laptop 3 ,15inch, 16/512, intel i7,4K screen... Damn I feel I made a mistake for selling my ipad for 700 euros instead of that deal
Please talk me out of it
I never realized how much of an intentional Tonka toy iPadOS is until I used an Android tablet. Android for a tablet is like best of both worlds: it’s an extremely capable and extensible OS, but it’s also NOT Windows, with all its problems (like updating every week).
I’m sure Apple has a phenomenal iPad operating system somewhere in the bowels of its research labs. But the whole point is to keep you from using such an inexpensive device as a laptop, because they don’t want to cannibalize their computer sales. They want to sell you a MacBook as well. “It works WITH your iPad Pro!” and so on…
It’s a business decision, and probably a pretty savvy one.
My experience with Android tablets is precisely the opposite. They're toys for people who generally don't mind having inferior hardware and software, at a lower price. I know people who make a good living off their iPads. I don't know anyone who makes a living with an Android tablet.
IMO, the iPad has a phenomenal OS already. Does it do everything macOS does? No. Does it need to? No. Could it be improved? Sure. But if you want a laptop, buy a laptop. I want a tablet. If I wanted a laptop, I'd have bought one. We don't complain that boats aren't helicopters, despite both being forms of transport. Why is it such a struggle for some people to treat laptops like laptops, and tablets like tablets?
Well, sometimes. I think it depends on too many variables. For a lot of people, you’re correct - but for many (including myself) the iPad has completely taken over for my Windows PC. 😊
Microsoft has a Surface 3 and a Surface Laptop 3, the Surface 3 is a few years old tablet with a pretty weak processor but a very nice screen for the era.
I had a Surface 3 for about 6 years, mostly used for OneNote, but had to part ways with it when the battery started expanding and I didn't want to have a time bomb kicking around the house.
. It was a really solid device, even with the limitations of the processor. I just learned that I had to find something else to do whenever Windows Update ran because that bogged it down so much.Why shouldn't an iPad be every bit as capable as a MacBook Air? Until it is brought up to parity iPads will be tethered to and dependent upon a Mac.
It feels strange that tablets are treated as some magical subset of the overall computing landscape that's sacred or something.
Magical? No. Tethered to a Mac? Maybe five years ago. I use mine without any reference to a Mac (or a PC) whatsoever. For my purposes, my iPad is much more capable than many laptops; I’d have to spend extra money to get the same experience. It’s strange to me that people keep attempting to use iPads as traditional computers, when they could just buy one of those and be done with it. One may as well argue for using a sledgehammer to cut down trees.
Then Apple should stop pretending they can replace traditional computers. Tethered to Mac? Very yes if you want to do anything beyond watching videos, reading emails and books, or drawing the occasional illustration.
There's no reason the iPad shouldn't have the ability to Spotlight(search) within PDFs.
There's no reason the iPad shouldn't have Smart Folders (saved searches) in Mail and Files.
There's no reason the iPad shouldn't be able to format a USB drive.
There's no reason an iPad shouldn't allow me to add my own purchased or composed music to the music app.
There's no reason an iPad should be able to correct the metadata on said music.
There's no reason why the iPad photos app can't modify metadata besides the date.
There's no reason why the iPad photos app doesn't recognize keywords or, again, have Smart Folders
There's no reason why the Notes app shouldn't remember where I am in the note that was on screen 10 seconds ago and should then jump to a random spot in said note despite having 16GB of RAM with 4 applications open.
There's no reason I should have to make this list as the iPad has been around for 11 years. The Mac went from not existing to System 7 in as much time and was as capable as the imagination of each user. In 11 years iPad has gone from "very large single tasking phone" to "slightly larger double-tasking phone with widgets on the home screen" that'll only do what Apple has blessed as worthy of crossing their memory circuits
You find it strange that people keep attempting to use iPads as traditional computers. I find it strange people don't want iPads to be as capable as the hardware will allow.
Oh and yes, when you fell a particularly large or tough tree you use wedges... with a sledgehammer.
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Yes you are right - and if you want to do real work these are devices like the Samsung Galaxy S22 ultra with a pen and Samsung - Dex for Desktop experience using an external monitor, keyboard and mouse.
I guess it is more rare case, too complicated and more suitable for tech enthusiasts. I meant just regular people who largely does not own/use computers in their life.
So… here we all can argue is iPad Macbookish enough or not, meanwhile people just use phone for everything
More on this, there is whole new generation of young people in developing countries who grew up with smartphone but never had a computer.Attachments
I use my ipad to teach in the classroom and I can’t imagine having it replaced by a windows tablet for this purpose. Everything would be worse. Touch support. Apps. Battery life. Cellular connectivity. Portability. Ease of use.
The ipad worked for me precisely because it was so different from a conventional PC, rather than trying to emulate one. To use a more appropriate analogy, the ipad is a hammer, while the windows laptop (and PCs) in general are screwdrivers. Prior to the introduction of the ipad, that’s what trying to use a windows laptop in class was like for me - like trying to hammer in nails with a screwdriver. It was just so frustrating. I bought my first iPad in 2012 and I haven’t looked back since.
I am glad that I have choice in this regard. A giant iPod touch for use in the classroom, a windows laptop for work in school (kinda need that to access network files), and my choice of an imac or MBA at home depending on my needs. The right tool for the right job.
So when you say that the ipad will never come close to replacing a laptop, my response is “I sure hope so”.
Yes a whole new generation who are touch first, maybe even touch only. Fast forward a few years when they start to develop apps for themselves and they're told they have to develop those apps via a stodgy mouse only system they too will demand that either the touch only systems grow up or that the mouse-only systems become touch capable.I guess it is more rare case, too complicated and more suitable for tech enthusiasts. I meant just regular people who largely does not own/use computers in their life.
So… here we all can argue is iPad Macbookish enough or not, meanwhile people just use phone for everything
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I think that’s changed. The only area where Apple is ahead in hardware on the iPad Pro vs the Samsung S8 Ultra Tablet is the CPU. Otherwise, it’s on par. Samsung’s tweaks to the OS have made Android a much nicer experience when it comes to multitasking vs the cumbersome Stage Manager iPadOS (which is fantastic in macOS). At least with Samsung, their tablets are not mediocre machines with poor software anymore. I absolutely love my M1 12.9 iPad Pro but I can acknowledge some shortcomings with it.
While multitasking on Samsung tablets is indeed clearly superior to whatever iPadOS does (Stage Manager or not) even without ever opening DEX, CPU is not the only hardware/software advantage of iPads.
- The S8 ultra (I have the 16GB RAM model) has a much more reflective screen and it's much harder than for iPad to find a matte screen protector that does not significatly deteriorate the screen quality
- Most Android and Windows tablets with thin bezels are plagued by accidental touches since there is no palm rejection (not to be confused with stylus palm rejection), contrary to iPads. This was not an issue when bezels where thicker. And it's not an issue with iPads.
- Browsing is way slower than it should be. Based on Geekbench scores the S8 ultra should browse at least like a 2018 iPad pro, while in reality is half as slow (similar to a 10.5in iPad pro) and the Tab S7 is similar to a 2015 iPad pro... (and I have tested every single browser)
- There is nothing like a Magic Keyboard. The keyboard on the S8 ultra is clearly inferior.
That's why despite having spent $1400 on my S8 ultra I only use it for movies and as a monitor, while I use 12.9 iPad pro for most other tablet things. And for multitasking Windows on surface devices is still superior to Samsung OneUI, and personally I am taking the less touch centric Windows OS any day over OneUI (let alone iPadOS...) if I need to multitask
Some Windows devices have issues with standby, some don't. My thinkpad doesn't. I have had surface 2, pro 3, 3, Book 2, book 3 and go 2 and they mostly have no issues. The pro 3 had issues, but after years of use, far from junk.
And I have had many issues with Apple devices:
10.5 pro: bright spot
9.7 pro: developed even worse screen issues after a few years
iPad 2: screen issues too
M1 Mini: regular bluetooth issues
12in Macbook: keyboard issues on 1, USB issues on the other.
Apple products are far from being issue-free... That doesn't mean they are bad or that most will have issues. Same with Surface devices, despite your personal experience and claims