I disagree if you mean that We should have a UX more like macOS but agree if you mean that we should have more flexibility in how the different applications interact with each other and how capable the applications can be.
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iPad I ditched my iPad and used Microsoft Surface 3 for a month
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You may be slightly underestimating. I use the M1 Air for research and documentation of architectural history (my website http://www.sketchclub.net), maintaining my music page (http://markstonemusic.com) in addition to a lot of personal and professional spreadsheets, record keeping and word processing. iPad capabilities go well beyond graphics, videos, etc., although that seems to be their accepted niche. However, I agree with you that for your purpose (along with many other individuals), especially “intense work requiring real hardware”, an iPad would be too little, too late.
Ironic to say I believe everyone shares my narrow needs when what I'm saying is the iPad (or more specifically touch screen interfaces) should be allowed to do far far more than it currently is. The only reason iPads can't replace a computer for everyone is Apple has elected to ignore the requisite functionality such as...
--Teenager is writing their own music with Garageband and want to add it to their Music app library? Have to send it to a Mac first.
--Grandpa has dozens of legal documents in PDFs and needs to find a specific phrase in one of them? Open each document one by one and search for it or go to a Mac to search all of them simultaneously.
--Tech in the field has to share a file with someone and circumstances require it to be on a USB drive but the formatting is corrupted? Hope one of them has a Mac or PC or Windows Tablet because iPad's not going to do it.
--Mom wants to print a recipe from the internet but the printer doesn't have AirPrint? Send it to a Mac or replace the printer.
--Website doesn't work in Safari for whatever reason? Go to a Mac or PC.
--[[ Fill in anything you personally have had to go to a Mac or PC for ]]
What is it that people don't want touchscreen Macs? What does the Mac do that people don't want their iPads to do? I'm not advocating that Apple should get rid of iPadOS. If they made a touchscreen Mac then 90% of the posts like OP's wouldn't happen.
I have both a Mac and an iPad because the portability of the iPad lets me work where the Mac laptop won't fit and the Mac of course for what the iPad can't do. And of course there's apps for iPad that developers refuse to allow to be run on macOS and vice versa.
Yes, a touch system that can fulfill 100% of my needs is that important to me. It's what I was dreaming of in the 90's, what I was shopping for in 2005 before being introduced to the Mac, what I wished Apple was going to release before they did the iPad, and what I still want today.
Is that ultimately a touchscreen Mac? Maybe. Is it iPadOS extended to fill the gaps? Maybe.
I do see what you were going for with the sledgehammer analogy. Use the right tool for the job. It's just a shame that Apple has limited the use of the tool that is touch screens to phones and "bigger phones" and refuse to bring them to computers.
------- Addendum: I wrote and rewrote this reply over several hours... kind of became a mess.
What I'm trying to get at is right now I carry a 13 inch Macbook Pro and an 11 inch M1 iPad Pro. Two separate devices. What I want is a single device that's every bit as portable as the iPad with all of the interface options as the iPad while being every bit as capable as the Macbook.
Is that a transforming Macbook? Ew, no. Is it "iPad" hardware running macOS? Probably. Is it iPadOS extended to fill all the gaps in functionality? Maybe.
The thing is, as OP showed with his Surface3 he doesn't have to choose. It's available right now. I've been begging Apple for this for a decade and all they can say is "meh" It's almost enough to make me go back to Windows.
I use my ipad to teach in the classroom and I can’t imagine having it replaced by a windows tablet for this purpose. Everything would be worse. Touch support. Apps. Battery life. Cellular connectivity. Portability. Ease of use.
The ipad worked for me precisely because it was so different from a conventional PC, rather than trying to emulate one. To use a more appropriate analogy, the ipad is a hammer, while the windows laptop (and PCs) in general are screwdrivers. Prior to the introduction of the ipad, that’s what trying to use a windows laptop in class was like for me - like trying to hammer in nails with a screwdriver. It was just so frustrating. I bought my first iPad in 2012 and I haven’t looked back since.
I am glad that I have choice in this regard. A giant iPod touch for use in the classroom, a windows laptop for work in school (kinda need that to access network files), and my choice of an imac or MBA at home depending on my needs. The right tool for the right job.
So when you say that the ipad will never come close to replacing a laptop, my response is “I sure hope so”.
I don't know what you do, so I cannot comment on what your experience.
But for educational purpose, iPad is still very lacking. Office alone is deal breaker for me. Full version of Word, Excel and PowerPoint is must. Trying to use any advanced Excel function on iPad version will fail.
I tried to use iPad for company's meeting and presenting. I have always restored to Windows, since lots of times, I need to present with Excel with bunch of Pivotable combine with Macros. Good luck with these on iPad, because you can't.
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It is quite expected outcome that full-featured computer is necessary for student.
Yes. As multiple people throughout this topic have said, the iPad as-is is very appealing to us. There are other options available for the sort of device you desire, though they are a minority of all tablet-style devices sold (in Q4 2021, only 0.64 million Surfaces sold, out of 12.7 million tablets total, with 40% of those being iPads).
I don’t need multiple ports on a tablet. I don’t need a full Finder-style interface for file management. I don’t need to export from GarageBand to Apple Music. I don’t need the ability to edit metadata, reformat flash drives, etc.
As I’ll note later, someone did make a touchscreen Mac, and it failed miserably. If the people who desire a touchscreen Mac now had been around to put their money where their mouths were, perhaps Apple’s product line would look different.
For apps, that’s a dev problem, not an Apple problem.
Were you ever aware of the Modbook? The first one was released years before the iPad.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point. I don’t find it a shame at all, nor do I consider iPads merely larger phones. Our personal preferences here are diametrically opposite.
While it won’t be quite that, your best bet is probably a Surface device from Microsoft.
You’ve got an uphill slog, then, as it appears there are millions more consumers who like the simplicity of the tablet versus putting macOS on iPads.
Why not buy a Windows machine, then? If a touchscreen is that important for you, I think it’d be a good investment.
My bet would be the vast majority of the market just doesn’t share your desires, which is why such devices haven’t proliferated compared to regular laptops or tablets. Like me. I specifically bought an iPad because I didn’t want a full desktop OS. I don’t need to shoehorn it into being that.
I empathize with your desire to have a single, capable device. I really do. I have no problem with it in principle. It just doesn’t fit what is, for me, one of the best selling points of the iPad: that it’s a very capable machine that is simpler than a MacBook or desktop. I don’t see how you can persuade Apple to take the path you want short of someone who shares that idea becoming CEO, or iPad sales dropping while Surface-style machines take the market. Neither of those is likely, so as before, your best bet is probably switching to Windows. Why not buy what works versus frustrating yourself trying to fit the clichéd square peg into the round hole?
Out of 40% of iPads sold, majority of iPads are the regular cheap version of iPads whereas iPad Pro counts smaller percentage.
I don't have problem with cheap iPads with limited functions, but I have problem with iPad Pros that cost over thousands. If you have spec up iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard, you will pay MacBook Pro price. But you aren't getting friction of functionality of macOS.
The sole purpose of Apple keeping distinctive line and limiting iPad Pro's capability is Apple wants you to purchase MacBook Pro and iPad Pro, instead just buy one. Gonna keep the shareholder happy.
The problem is that the best-selling iPad is nowhere near the capable as Mac or Windows, yet price is almost matching some cheaper Windows machine.
Respectfully, I'll never understand argument.
Anytime someone criticizes iPadOS, it's met with "you just want MacOS on iPad, get a Mac then." I really don't want MacOS on iPad, but I do want iPadOS to be better than what it is. Wanting the iPad to be better isn't the same as wanting it to be a Mac. Now, are there features on the Mac that would make perfect sense on the iPad? Yes, IMO.
For example, both MacOS and iPadOS have a dock. However on MacOS:
- you can put folders, like your downloads and documents folder, in the dock to quickly access
- you can use the dock to close out of apps
- you can drag files you want to delete in the Trash
- the Dock indicates which apps you currently have open with an icon
On iPadOS, the dock is simply an app launcher.
Now, me wanting the Dock on iPadOS to be more functional like it is on MacOS, isn't necessarily wanting MacOS on iPad. The two platforms share the same feature, except the iPadOS version is stripped of everything that makes the dock useful. There are many examples like this.
Also, I agree, the iPad line is the best tablet line ever. The base 9th gen iPad for $329 is the best bang for you buck computing device on the market, hands down. I really can't complain too much about iPadOS on that device. It's the M1/M2 iPad Pros that start at $1,099 (for only 128gbs, yikes) when I think it's fair to have a higher expectation from the software.
The point doesn’t change - Surfaces are outsold by substantial margins. If you want Apple to take a different approach, you’re going to have to convince consumers to change their buying habits, or somehow get a different CEO installed.
Not everyone wants or needs a Magic Keyboard, and many of us like the simplicity of the iPad. We don’t need all the functionality of macOS. If you’re spending thousands on an iPad, you generally fall into one of a few categories: you have more money than sense; you didn’t pay attention to marketing and buy based on hope rather than need; you researched what you want and the iPad fits it; or because you can. There are other reasons too. I have no problem with costlier iPads, as I expect people to do their research before buying one.
Put more accurately, you can’t imagine an alternate reason. It could also be that they prefer to optimize interfaces for the form factor instead of trying to make one device cover everything. Jack-of-all-trades often don’t do well.
Having used, and seen others use, those cheap Windows machines, there’s a reason they’re cheap: they’re generally awful. The price tag is outweighed by the user experience. They’re good for basic use, but for anything more I’d want a more powerful device.
Did you just told me the reason that iPad Pro shouldn't exist? Or we can have an iPad that provide touch first experience when it is in tablet mode and provide keyboard and mouse experience when it is docked with keyboard cover or keyboard & mouse combo.
Awful in what sense? I admit cheaper Windows machine has subpar build quality and lower specifications. But none the less, it is Windows machine, it is Windows experience. Whether you think Windows experience is awful or not, it is different story.
This is a weird take, IMO.
Unless you’re arguing that the software is so limited on iPadOS that it doesn’t justify the high price of the Pros.
Because the exact same hardware running in an iMac/Mac mini/MacBook Air is considered a bargain at that price. Because MacOS actually utilizes it better.
Not at all. Some people buy without regard to their needs, because they want to look cool, they want to fit in, whatever, not because they’ll ever make much use of what they bought. That goes for Macs as well.
No. iPad Pro should exist, but you cannot justify the price for your purposes because you want to use it like a MacBook, instead of just buying a MacBook. You can already use a keyboard and a mouse - I think you don’t want that, what you want appears to be macOS on a tablet. I don’t want macOS on iPads any more than I want iPadOS on Macs.
Poor build quality, poor experience running anything aside from a web browser and chat applications, bad battery life, low quality keyboards and screens, everything people so often ignore. I’d sooner use a Chromebook than most low-end Windows machines.
I think you’re talking about a very small amount of iPad Pro owners. And I don’t think those people represent the power users discussing their dissatisfaction with iPadOS in these forums.
Wanting more from iPadOS isn’t the same as wanting MacOS on it. Telling someone to buy a mac because they want to see improvements with iPadOS is a lazy take.
iPadOS works for you. Congrats. Why is it such a problem for the rest of us to want to offer more than what it currently does?
I can’t really understand the argument for wanting iPadOS to not improve.
Yes, it doubled the price of the base MacBook and they never got around to actually selling the bloody things.
It's a problem Apple is creating for everyone by not allowing devs to do more interesting things with their apps.
That's cool that you don't have a need for those things (right now) because you also have other machines to fill in. Meanwhile anyone who can only afford an iPad is hamstrung to only what Apple has blessed this month.
If I wanted a Windows machine I would buy one. However, the one thing I want, a Mac with a touch screen, happens to also be the one combination of hardware/software not being sold today. I've been using macOS since 10.4 Tiger in 2006 and don't want to give that up. If Apple were to sell macOS for installing on a Microsoft Surface Pro 9 I would go that route (given that they didn't hamstring it)
My bet is that a majority of the market have awkward conversations every so often about why they can't load their own music in to the music app, or reformat a USB drive, or why file management is... different... or why spotlight doesn't search the content of files and so on. None of that would be shoehorning anything, it would be adding requisite entries to the context menus and share sheets already present in the system.
The joy of macOS is wondering "can I do this" and finding there's multiple ways, most of them quite easy. The bummer of iPadOS is wondering "can I do this" and finding it's either literally impossible or takes many esoteric steps. Basically with macOS if it's in the commercial it can do that and much much more, just you need a platform big enough for a laptop. Meanwhile with iPadOS if it's in the commercial you can likely do that (with caveats) otherwise best of luck to you.
Because Windows doesn't work for me and many of us for the same reasons why iPadOS is deficient. MacOS works the-way-I-think and serves all needs except for being in hardware that's truly flexible and portable. iPadOS is pinky out, monocle in, asking "why would you want to do that". Windows gets caught up in computer science technicalities too often to ask itself what it's doing.
The iPad is not a square peg in a round hole. It's a mostly round peg labeled "round peg" that's catching on one side of the round hole.
The frustration comes from knowing that Apple is fully capable of producing a touchscreen Mac and they flip their should and say "meh".
They could also produce an iPadOS that could operate completely without life support from other operating systems and yet they flip their shoulder and say "make me".
You may not find it a shame that Apple hasn't produced a touchscreen Mac. It very much is a shame as it means they're on the back foot on developing what the next generation of computer users will demand.
Yes our opinions are diametrically opposite because you have real computers to use at work and whatever your desktop is meaning you treat your iPad as a temporary entertainment device. I'm advocating for people who cannot afford multiple computers or genuinely prefer a tablet form factor or don't want to drag around two separate devices and want the only limitation to be their own personal imagination.
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Sorry, don't mean to attack you its really disheartening to be saying "Apple should be making this better" and while others say "they should leave it just as it is"
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I agree with you! You want iPadOS to be better, me too! I‘m just against the idea of “just throw MacOS on the iPad”, like many suggest. I’m not against iPadOS improving. Your dock example is a good one of improving functionality and not “just throw the entirety of MacOS in there and call it a day”.
Not really, it depends on the program. More writing focussed programs can get by with an iPad. I suspect that even some biology and chemistry programs could get by with an iPad. Engineering and computer science, and, maybe, math will require more than an iPad is capable of though.
The video is misleading though since early on she covers many things that are windows only, this would exclude a mac (without a VM) as well.
Imagine people back in the day saying, i want my iPod just for music. It’s the best music play. I dont want a video screen to listen to music. If i want a phone i can use my blackberry which is a great phone. Etc, Stop me if you know where this is going.
In the not too distant future in an Apple Presentation.
This is our new best tablet, this is our new best laptop, they are not separate machines but one. Introducing the New Mac. When you dock it, it becomes a full fledge computer with extra battery life to last days. Remove the screen and it becomes the fastest IPad with all the touch features you know and love. And now 5g will come standard so you can always be connected thanks to our new Apple Modem chip. Revolutionary, etc, this changes everything etc.
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So generally people who like the iPad want it to gain features into iPad OS. There is a subset of people on here who think the iPad should just get macOS, there is a fear that if these voices grow too loud apple may give in. What Apple should do to appease these people is create a 2-in-1 touchscreen mac.
iPads and Macs are different devices with different design priorities and it makes more sense to create a 2-in-1 Mac to ensure that the pointer and keyboard first approach of the mac is preserved rather than trying to bring macOS to the touch first Pad design.
I think the dock should be more powerful, there are so many features iPads should get, but those features should come to iPad OS not via macOS.
I don’t want my iPad to become a mac when I dock it to the Magic Keyboard or connect a mouse and keyboard. iPad OS has made amazing strides in recent years to become much more capable of being the most flexible OS apple has. What’s holding it back? Apps and apple’s App Store policies. Touch first apps are never going to be an easy fix even if you put macOS on it. If I want an app on the iPad I want it to come to the iPad as a touch first app that also supports the mouse and keyboard when needed. I don’t want to have to dock my iPad to use some mouse and keyboard only app.
This is not at all analogous, I want my iPad to do most things a mac does but to do them in an iPady way rather than a mac way.
I say hard no to macOS on iPad. If you want the portability of an iPad you need to have a touch first OS, that isn’t macOS, transforming experiences are subpar (see windows 8).
Windows is still a sub-par touch first experience, it still doesn’t expose everything in a touch friendly way leaving you to find your desk for many things. Yes they have made things better. I would also argue that Windows approach is a very compromised approach. If you are using your windows machine with a keyboard and mouse you’ll quickly notice that it wastes a lot of space making sure targets are touch friendly…
Also, a transforming MacBook would be no heavier than an iPad + Magic Keyboard. The surface, when used to full potential, requires its keyboard attachment. I’ll say it again for emphasis, if you want something that has a touch first OS in apple land you need iPad OS not macOS. Something that transforms in hardware (2-in-1) is far less jarring than something that transforms in software.
The reason for this response is many people on here are saying that they think macOS is the right way to go… Many of us who use iPad OS think that the problems with it are not primarily UX related but instead relate to missing features and App Store policies, and artificial restrictions. I posted in one of the other threads a list of improvements I think are needed but there are countless threads on here advocating for iPad OS improvements. This thread is filled with people saying macOS is just a few tweaks away from being a sufficiently touch first OS to replace iPad OS.
I have an iPad Pro, I don’t want macOS on it. I do want more of the functionality of macOS. Apple is also very slow moving under Tim Cook. If we look at the pace of change of macOS from 10.0 to 10.5 we got so many new features each release that improved on the experience and filled in missing UI functionality. Modern Apple moves at a glacial pace by comparison. Over the entire lifespan of iPad OS we can see it getting more and more functional but the rate of change feels a hundred times slower than early macOS X.