It makes total sense for the millions of users who have bought it. We want the best iPad, we don’t care how much a MacBook Air costs. As no one argues you shouldn’t buy an iPhone because you could also get a MBA. What you see as a software limitation is an advantage for many of us. The problem is that you see iPadOS as universally worse than macOS, when for me it’s better in many contexts.
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iPad I ditched my iPad and used Microsoft Surface 3 for a month
- Thread starter Aoligei
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With all respect but sorry, I think it’s really naive to think “there are no problems”, “everyone is happy”, etc. Just imagine que million UX problems that arise when you have a system that only works in one mode when a keyboard is attached, what happens when the keyboard is removed and the app is not compatible, touch is suddenly disabled, etc. And most importantly: the iPad pushes to enhance touch-first interaction, which means all apps are compatible with touch. A mouse-only mode means this principle must not be followed anymore, which would mean many apps wouldn’t be touch-compatible, which affects everyone.
You are literally describing Windows 8, 8.1, 10, and now 11 here. This is a solved problem for Windows, which means you can run the OS on a variety of different hardware, including tablets. Some apps from the Microsoft Store are touch-first, but the majority of apps installed will simply work with basic touch interaction without configuring.
Apps don't have to be 'mouse-only mode'.
I agree with the OP, @Aoligei - Apple simply want to maximize revenue across devices, and promote their cash cow App Store. I have had enough and am also using a Surface now (Surface Pro X).
I definitely think this is not a problem solved by Windows. The W10 (or 11) interface is simply a desktop one with some tweaks, but it doesn’t have the metaphors and feel of a touch interface. iOS (or iPadOS) and Android (almost from the beginning) are OS built from the ground-up as touch-first. Windows and macOS are not, and also have a lot of legacy software and functionality, so no matter what they do, they’re clearly mouse-based OS (it’s not only about the visual interface).
Of course you might disagree, but I think, based on the figures, Apple approach has been way more successful. That’s the real reason why they continue with iPadOS instead of macOS, and not some obscure anti-cannibalism tactic (which would happen anyway if competitors were better than the iPad).
It isn’t a solved problem. The touch experience of Windows is still sub-par/incomplete, there are still parts of windows that only really work properly with a mouse and keyboard. Never mind how many apps have never had themselves touch optimized and rely on things like hover states. Also, because of the larger targets for the parts of Windows that are touch friendly do not make as good use of space as they did when they were mouse and keyboard focussed.
Surface 9 🤢
You might want to consider a different brand. Microsoft has kneecapped their Surface line-up lately with some very questionable configuration options.
My recommendations: ASUS or Dell. Decent hardware and better configuration options. The Surface used to be a great option, but Microsoft doesn’t seem to have a clear idea what they’re doing with the entire line-up.
Funny you mention this. Last year, I bought a Lenovo to be used exclusively as a backup work computer. The work I do for clients requires me to use certain apps that they require. I won't get into that here, but most of the time, my Mac fits the bill just fine. But every now and then, I get a client that requires something that needs a PC, hence the Lenovo. I used to use Parallels for these clients until moving to Silicon. Windows ARM isn't quite there yet, so now I use the Lenovo when needed. I am not a fan of Win-11 but it's a fine machine for what it does. Anyway, I've owned the Lenovo for over 1 year now but only a couple months ago did I finally realize it had a touch screen. One night, I couldn't figure out why my screen kept flipping back to another app, and then I realized it was because I kept steadying the laptop by holding the screen gently with my left hand. I had no idea! Considering the price I paid, I didn't expect a touch screen to be included. It's come in handy a couple of times, although I still prefer a mouse to any other Mac/PC pointing device. When that's not available, I prefer the touch screen over the trackpad. It's just my preference.
1) Mouse
2) Touch Screen
3) Track Pad
Exactly, it's about which method makes sense in the moment.
One of the arguments against a touchscreen Mac has been "your arms will get tired holding them up for 8 hours" That's the point, we'd use which method makes sense in the moment.
- Sitting at a desk for an extended time? Mouse and keyboard
- Drawing an illustration? Touch and pencil
- Pixel precision illustration? Mouse and keyboard
- Moving around the room and interacting with your Mac a few moments here and there? Touch
oh man I might as well shoot myself in the face here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/im-having-to-give-up-on-apple-silicon-and-macos.2370226/
Fundamental issue, apart from a surface being an unreliable lump of poo, is it runs windows 11 which is an unreliable lump of poo. Using the statistical method of N x M that means that's poop squared.
Enjoy but I bet you'll be back faster than I was 🤣
Fundamental issue, apart from a surface being an unreliable lump of poo, is it runs windows 11 which is an unreliable lump of poo. Using the statistical method of N x M that means that's poop squared.
Enjoy but I bet you'll be back faster than I was 🤣
That’s what it boils down to. People calling another bit of tech poo, because it doesn’t fit their use case.
I use both, and am more productive on the Surface with its desktop OS. I use macs 80–90% of the time and prefer macOS over Windows, but as much as I find the iPad convenient and a better all round touch experience, there are many occasions when my $2k Apple tablet is too restrictive to get many tasks done efficiently.
Just because one device doesn’t fit my use case I would be childish and call it poo. - but maybe I’m poo too, because when using the surface on the road, I get a better presentation completed, use more complex spreadsheets, write some code in VisualStudio, and don’t battle on trying to use the cut down apps on the iPad.
Who is there saying that iPadOS cannot be better with multitasking? Why can't iPadOS support better file system? Why can't iPad have better external accessories support? When Apple improve these, it will make iPad instantly more useful. But for 10 years now, iPadOS remain the restrictively, feature limited software.
Basic iPad as the $399 dollar one is actually good deal for what it is. But if you combine with the basic iPad with the Smart Keyboard cover, all the sudden it become expensive (unless of course you get the Smart Keyboard on a deal, which I got for $40).
I would say basic iPad make lots of sense for people like my dad who is just looking for a devices for content consumption before beds and not looking for anything else. This is exactly why I brought basic iPad my dad's birthday.
For content consumption it isn’t limited. I use it for that, iPadOS is completely fine. Like I said earlier, buy a Mac if you want MacOS.
Not trying to rant on Apple or anything, but Microsoft Surface Pro is better than the iPad Pro for work. I just wished Microsoft would make the touch interface a little better, but other than that no complaints. The iPad Pro is a sleek and premium device that looks great.
I think the best thing is to buy what you’re comfortable with and what works best for you.
The OP mentioned something about he doesn’t want how he uses a device to conform to how the iPad works (paraphrasing) but that’s what you’re going to do with every device. The difference is perhaps the Surface matches his workflow versus the iPad doesn’t. I agree that it’s best to get a device devices that do what you want best.
I don’t have an iPad Pro, but I have an iPad Air and feature wise it’s about the same. I could use the iPad as a laptop replacement if I added a keyboard but I don’t see a reason why. What would be the advantage or reason for me to do this other than not having to buy a second device? I guess if you’re in some niche case where you can afford to buy an iPad Pro and Magic Keyboard, but can’t afford a MacBook then maybe. I’ve heard traveling because people don’t want to carry two devices, but then just carry a MacBook. Maybe back in the Intel days when battery life was a concern but today that’s not an issue.
I use my iPad for content consumption and web browsing. If I’m going to do something that requires a lot of input then I use my MacBook. For my specific use case I having a keyboard would probably cover this, but the keyboards I’ve seen don’t work well on your lap or carrying them around. With my MacBook I can hold it by the keyboard, and the screen won’t fall off or flop down. Perhaps if they could figure out how to make a detachable MacBook like keyboard that attaches securely then I would be more tempted to go iPad only.
The OP mentioned something about he doesn’t want how he uses a device to conform to how the iPad works (paraphrasing) but that’s what you’re going to do with every device. The difference is perhaps the Surface matches his workflow versus the iPad doesn’t. I agree that it’s best to get a device devices that do what you want best.
I don’t have an iPad Pro, but I have an iPad Air and feature wise it’s about the same. I could use the iPad as a laptop replacement if I added a keyboard but I don’t see a reason why. What would be the advantage or reason for me to do this other than not having to buy a second device? I guess if you’re in some niche case where you can afford to buy an iPad Pro and Magic Keyboard, but can’t afford a MacBook then maybe. I’ve heard traveling because people don’t want to carry two devices, but then just carry a MacBook. Maybe back in the Intel days when battery life was a concern but today that’s not an issue.
I use my iPad for content consumption and web browsing. If I’m going to do something that requires a lot of input then I use my MacBook. For my specific use case I having a keyboard would probably cover this, but the keyboards I’ve seen don’t work well on your lap or carrying them around. With my MacBook I can hold it by the keyboard, and the screen won’t fall off or flop down. Perhaps if they could figure out how to make a detachable MacBook like keyboard that attaches securely then I would be more tempted to go iPad only.
I could easily get both iPad Pro and MacBook Air and I do have both. But I found that since purchased iPad Pro in 2018, it has been in my drawer for almost 4 years. I can count how many times that I powered it on. This is why I am selling it. I spend majority of my time with MacBook Air and Windows PC that I have. I can't understand why Apple wouldn't make iPad more useful.
There is a time when I use my iPad and I need to print something with my leaser color printer, which does not have AirPrint, that I have to send documents to my Mac and print from there. I am looking at iPad Pro alone with the Smart Keyboard Cover, which cost me over $1600 Canadian and I don't understand why I purchased this thing in first place.
It sounds like, perhaps the iPad is not suited for what you need. Either that or you have another device that does the same thing and you find no reason to use the iPad?
More useful? You mean more useful for what you need. They can’t make a device specifically for one person’s workflow. If they make it more useful for you, then they’re making it less useful for somebody else. What they try to do is make it useful for the most amount of people. It would be nice to have a device custom designed for me but I’m sure way out of my budget.
If you have an older printer, sometimes newer devices won’t work with it. It sucks because laser printers last forever so it’s hard to justify buying a new one when it works. I’m pretty sure there is a way to make a wired printer able to print wirelessly. There’s someway where if you have a Mac hooked to the printer you can print from other devices like an iPad. There might be other ways to do it, but this is kind of moot since you don’t really use the iPad.
Yes, sometimes we all do that. You buy something because you think it looks interesting and then realize why did I buy this because I don’t need it. I’ve done that a few times.
In the end use what works best for you. Don’t try to force a square peg into a round hole just so you can say you did it. Just because someone else uses an iPad and it works great for them, doesn’t mean it’s going to work the same for you.
I think that the iPad has moved both forwards and backwards in the last 10 years. I would say it probably would have done better under Steve, who seemed to have some idea of where the product should evolve given the way he talked about the product. Tim doesn’t seem to have known what to do with the iPad which lead to the great reset of iOS 7 where most of the Apps got decontented. Since iPadOS got its own name again we have finally seen features added back and some forward progress. Mac OS X is now 23 years old and as someone who used 10.0 I can tell you the iPad today is infinitely more capable than Mac OS 10.0… Is the iPad moving more slowly than many of us would like, yes, and I wish they would take it more seriously. Mac OS X really didn’t get good until the 10.3-10.6 era and since then while there have been lots of nice day to day improvements those were the years where most of the missing features were added in.
Given all your complaining about external device support I should mention DriverKit. Apple is doing more to open up the iPad to external devices (which I assume would include printers but I only glanced at the documentation for DriverKit).
Let’s assume that you can write a printer driver, there is no guarantee that the company that makes your printer will write one for it…
You place a lot of the blame for the iPads limitations on Apple when they can only do so much. They can add new features and technology but if developers don’t use it they can’t actually force them to …
I'm not sure what the argument is. Neither Surface or iPad is better or worse, just different. I use both for different things, as needed. As Star Trek's Mr. Scott once said, "the right tool for the right job, laddie!"
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And, it makes sense that, for someone’s whose early and core computing experience had been mouse and keyboard, their most familiar and comfortable experience will always be mouse and keyboard. Same for many that grew up using key commands never ever “got” the whole mouse thing. And, someone that grows up with today’s touch interfaces may find themselves in 2060 wondering the same about those future technologies.
