iPad I ditched my iPad and used Microsoft Surface 3 for a month

[Aoligei]

Exactly

in my personal opinion, iPads are the most versatile home computers you can have. I don’t need any other computer at home. The limits are in the professional work space. But in that, even macs are limited for me. As an accountant, you almost need to work with windows.

How is iPads are most versatile home computer? Can it connect my my USB drive? Can it connected to my USB printer? Does it have multi-users account? Can you format external disk with iPad? If all you do is just going to browsers and streaming videos, any devices can do. You don’t need waste your money on iPads. I can do thing just fine with $100 dollar Amazon tablet.

At least you can virtualized Windows on a mac or you can bootcamp to Windows on a Mac if you need to run Windows program. Can you do that with iPad?

 

[Aoligei]

I don't think you've used the iPad 10 years ago. If you have, you'll know that things were way more restricted back then.

No Files app at all, no multitasking, no mouse support. I can't recall if the Share sheet was even available back then. Iirc, that wasn't on iOS 4 which is what shipped on my iPad 2. Files were locked inside apps unless the app supported sending via email or cloud services like Dropbox.

Software progress on the iPad has been slow but it's not as locked down and limited as it used to be.

I started to jailbreak iPad since iOS 5. You can do hell lots more than what Apple wanted you to do.

 

[bcortens]

How is iPads are most versatile home computer? Can it connect my my USB drive? Can it connected to my USB printer? Does it have multi-users account? Can you format external disk with iPad? If all you do is just going to browsers and streaming videos, any devices can do. You don’t need waste your money on iPads. I can do thing just fine with $100 dollar Amazon tablet.

At least you can virtualized Windows on a mac or you can bootcamp to Windows on a Mac if you need to run Windows program. Can you do that with iPad?

You have such a narrow use case vision for iPad. I do a great deal of document based work on my iPad, I can do a lot of project management on the iPad... Just because you can't imagine workflows doesn't mean they don't exist.

As I said in a previous post, it probably can connect to your printer, but are there drivers using driver kit for it?

 

[bcortens]

I started to jailbreak iPad since iOS 5. You can do hell lots more than what Apple wanted you to do.

So? The point wasn't anything about what you can do if you jailbreak. The contention was that nothing has really changed in 10 years and that just isn't true.

 

[MegaBlue]

I remember when I traded my iPad and Mac for a Surface Pro 4, excited at the idea of a combination device instead of having 2 separate devices. This was back when the Surface Pro 4 was brand new. I had previously owned a Surface Pro 2 and used a Surface Book at work and actually had disappointing experiences, but decided to give the Pro 4 a chance since it was supposed to be such a big upgrade in reliability.

Yeah, 6 months later, I just traded it for an iPad, and I haven’t owned a laptop since then. There’s nothing a Windows or even macOS-based computer/tablet can offer me that my iPad doesn’t, and 9/10 times I prefer doing it on my iPad.

 

[JamesTheMac]

This is the problem with these discussions. They go round and round in circles. Everyone's own opinion is the only right one. And other people are using iPads incorrectly.

Different tools for different tasks. If some people can do everything they need to do on an iPad, great. No need to have the clunkiness of a desktop based OS. But let's just accept that there are some people too that have to run software that either is not available on the iPad, or runs with more restrictive functionality, (for their use case).

A macOS tablet is unlikely to see the light of day based on how the Developer Conferences are pushing convergence through Catalyst and SwiftUI. Even though the latest Macs and iPad Pros both use the same Apple Silicon, a Mac-based app will simply not run on iPadOS because it is built on AppKit, rather than UIKit. The way this accelerates year on year indicates Apple's intention about convergence. Ultimately, app functionality will likely improve as more developers buy into this, but for me at the moment, there are times when I have switch over to using a Surface device for many of my tasks in the field.

 

[Isengardtom]

How is iPads are most versatile home computer? Can it connect my my USB drive? Can it connected to my USB printer? Does it have multi-users account? Can you format external disk with iPad? If all you do is just going to browsers and streaming videos, any devices can do. You don’t need waste your money on iPads. I can do thing just fine with $100 dollar Amazon tablet.

At least you can virtualized Windows on a mac or you can bootcamp to Windows on a Mac if you need to run Windows program. Can you do that with iPad?

I haven’t felt the need to print anything in years. That even includes professional use stuff, but certainly not anything personal.

Sure if you still use those kinds of devices you are limited yes.

Multi - user accounts I agree with you
As for programs : what kind of programs do you use in your personal life that requires a full computer? Some games I guess?

The streaming / browsing experience on that 100$ amazon tablet is going to suck compared with a decent iPad

the versatility for me is in the fact that I can transform it into a device i can use at a table, in bed, on the couch, as a tablet with touch or pencil, as a (basic) laptop with a keyboard along with having
- a great screen
- great audio
- great browsing experience, games, video streaming
- web access to some worktools , MS office apps (sharepoint, Onedrive,…)

but I agree with the previous poster : this discussion is not objective, everyone has their own opinion.

 

[rui no onna]

The streaming / browsing experience on that 100$ amazon tablet is going to suck compared with a decent iPad

Yep. My cousin gifted my aunt an Amazon Fire tablet. She hated it and replaced it with an iPad after a month or so.

the versatility for me is in the fact that I can transform it into a device i can use at a table, in bed, on the couch, as a tablet with touch or pencil, as a (basic) laptop with a keyboard along with having
- a great screen
- great audio
- great browsing experience, games, video streaming
- web access to some worktools , MS office apps (sharepoint, Onedrive,…)

but I agree with the previous poster : this discussion is not objective, everyone has their own opinion.

Agreed. I’m on Windows laptop/desktop for work and primarily iPad for personal use. I’m perfectly okay with just the onscreen keyboard (mostly just used for forum replies anyway).

 

[bcortens]

I haven’t felt the need to print anything in years. That even includes professional use stuff, but certainly not anything personal.

Sure if you still use those kinds of devices you are limited yes.

Multi - user accounts I agree with you
As for programs : what kind of programs do you use in your personal life that requires a full computer? Some games I guess?

The streaming / browsing experience on that 100$ amazon tablet is going to suck compared with a decent iPad

the versatility for me is in the fact that I can transform it into a device i can use at a table, in bed, on the couch, as a tablet with touch or pencil, as a (basic) laptop with a keyboard along with having
- a great screen
- great audio
- great browsing experience, games, video streaming
- web access to some worktools , MS office apps (sharepoint, Onedrive,…)

but I agree with the previous poster : this discussion is not objective, everyone has their own opinion.

I actually print fairly regularly from mine but I have a printer that was purchased about 4 years ago so it connects wirelessly just fine.

I like the transformation as well - I dock it into the Magic Keyboard, type this message, then tear it away to read an article. Later on I’ll snap it back into the Magic Keyboard to do some project management.

 

[Isengardtom]

Agreed. I’m on Windows laptop/desktop for work and primarily iPad for personal use. I’m perfectly okay with just the onscreen keyboard (mostly just used for forum replies anyway).

Same for me. I can probably even do 60% of my work on the iPad which is a bit strange maybe being in accounting (consolidation and Reporting).

Where i need the windows laptop is for excel mostly : database connections, Powerpivot, … And any decent multitasking. (We have 2 external monitors at work)

But I can run my conso software on the iPad because it’s via the web. And I can access anything on SharePoint from the iPad either via the SharePoint app or via the web.
I even prefer the iPad for teams chats, or following up on my calendar or reading mails.

It’s actually even “fun” to use the pencil for part of the job, the interco elimination process. It’s almost as efficient as the laptop itself and I can do it at home on the couch watching tv or something. (It’s a bit of a routine task)

 

[Digitalguy]

I agree OneUI is much better but personally it wouldn't enhance my use experience by much.
I find multitasking for me means working with multiple screens

Everything else is more "distraction" creating than anything else.

I am 100% with you, that's why my favorive multitasking environnement is Windows.
OneUI has the best multitasking for touch only, but that does not mean that that's the best overall.
If you work with multiple screens, like with do (personally I hate split screen even on 27in displays, regardless of the OS), touch is simply not possible and mouse or trackpad is the only real way of interacting.

 

[Abazigal]

How is iPads are most versatile home computer? Can it connect my my USB drive? Can it connected to my USB printer? Does it have multi-users account? Can you format external disk with iPad? If all you do is just going to browsers and streaming videos, any devices can do. You don’t need waste your money on iPads. I can do thing just fine with $100 dollar Amazon tablet.

At least you can virtualized Windows on a mac or you can bootcamp to Windows on a Mac if you need to run Windows program. Can you do that with iPad?

It's versatile in that the iPad does like 80% of the stuff I want to do on a computer. I still have a PC to deal with the other 20%, and that's my point from the get go. I am not looking for the iPad to replace every single computing device in my house, but it does offer clear advantages over a conventional PC in a number of use cases that are relevant to me, and so for me at least, there is value in splurging on a high-end iPad because when you use the iPad for as many hours a day as I do, even the smallest refinement goes a long way in improving the user experience significantly.

I can also think of a number of differences between an iPad and a $100 amazon tablet. For one, apps. The mobile web sucks. Even using reddit in desktop safari feels like a chore. On my iPad, I have Apollo for browsing reddit, Tweetbot for twitter, Tapatalk for Macrumours (though the app seems to have gotten buggier of late), Machash for all my Mac-related news, Reeder for everything else (though there is admittedly some overlap with Twitter), Overcast and Marvis for audio listening, safari for everything else (and even that is with a number of ad blockers and extensions).

I don't have multiple user accounts on my MBA either. I can print wirelessly from my iPad and yes, ipad pros can now access usb drives via its charging port (though you will need an adaptor for usb-A drives but I have Samsung T5 drives for that, and it's no different for M1 MBA). I can't remember the last time I had to format an external drive, nor have I had to bootcamp into windows. And in the rare occasion that I need to, well, my MBA and my iMac are just a short distance away.

If I had to travel overseas with my students again, I am comfortable bringing only my iPad, while leaving my laptop at home, because again, the iPad does what it need it to do in this specific context, and boasts a number of advantages over the laptop (longer battery life, ability to detach the keyboard, cellular connectivity).

It's like having a toolbox. I don't have this one magical widget that magically morphs into any tool that I want at any one time. Instead, I have a variety of tools, each with a specific use case for a specific purpose. I have a smartphone, a tablet, 2 laptops (one from work, one personal), an iMac (that I share with my dad), Apple TVs, a Nintendo switch (that I rarely use), Apple Watch and AirPods.

I don't need one device that can magically do them all, and I am willing to bet that even if there were such a product, having the best of all worlds likely means having to deal with the worst of all worlds as well.

The more I think about it, the more I find that the benefit of the iPad over the PC is accessibility and ease of use. I can't get all my work done solely from an iPad, but I appreciate that the iPad is different enough from a conventional computer that it affords me a unique user experience.

And I believe this is due to the iPad running iOS. For me at least, the iPad being a glorified blown-up iPod touch is a feature, not a bug.

 

[Tozovac]

This topic has been extremely debated, hundreds of threads. Two camps:

-Those who want the iPad to be a Mac, run MacOS, etc

-Those who want the iPad to be what it currently is: the best tablet ever.

My phrasing practically included my opinion, but here it goes clearly: if you want a computer, buy a computer. I’ll have the best tablet ever, thank you.

Right-o. This is why we still have forks and spoons, rather than sporks. There is no one ring to rule them all.

 

[JustAnExpat]

Yep, I strongly disagree with that decision [for Apple to run MacOS on an iPad].

I disagree too, but we don't know "MacOS" means in this context. Assuming they are referring to an iPad proper, running "MacOS on iPad" may mean one of the following:
1. Running an actual copy of MacOS on an iPad that is the same that runs on a MacBook Air.
2. Making iPad OS look like MacOS when certain triggers appear. Remember how GeOS (or whatever the GUI was for the Apple II GS) looked like System 6?

I'm leaning towards the second option myself. I think it'll be possible for iPad OS to look like MacOS whenever there is a keyboard/touchpad attached that allows a multi-tasking interface to be used.

 

[koelsh]

the versatility for me is in the fact that I can transform it into a device i can use at a table, in bed, on the couch, as a tablet with touch or pencil, as a (basic) laptop with a keyboard along with having
- a great screen
- great audio
- great browsing experience, games, video streaming
- web access to some worktools , MS office apps (sharepoint, Onedrive,…)

You've pointed out exactly what the gist of this whole thread is.

iPadOS works for you and you get to use it as a tablet when you want and a laptop when you need it.

People for whom iPadOS isn't enough have to use a Mac laptop or a Windows machine.

 

[koelsh]

It's versatile in that the iPad does like 80% of the stuff I want to do on a computer. I still have a PC to deal with the other 20%, and that's my point from the get go. I am not looking for the iPad to replace every single computing device in my house, but it does offer clear advantages over a conventional PC in a number of use cases that are relevant to me, and so for me at least, there is value in splurging on a high-end iPad because when you use the iPad for as many hours a day as I do, even the smallest refinement goes a long way in improving the user experience significantly.

I can also think of a number of differences between an iPad and a $100 amazon tablet. For one, apps. The mobile web sucks. Even using reddit in desktop safari feels like a chore. On my iPad, I have Apollo for browsing reddit, Tweetbot for twitter, Tapatalk for Macrumours (though the app seems to have gotten buggier of late), Machash for all my Mac-related news, Reeder for everything else (though there is admittedly some overlap with Twitter), Overcast and Marvis for audio listening, safari for everything else (and even that is with a number of ad blockers and extensions).

I don't have multiple user accounts on my MBA either. I can print wirelessly from my iPad and yes, ipad pros can now access usb drives via its charging port (though you will need an adaptor for usb-A drives but I have Samsung T5 drives for that, and it's no different for M1 MBA). I can't remember the last time I had to format an external drive, nor have I had to bootcamp into windows. And in the rare occasion that I need to, well, my MBA and my iMac are just a short distance away.

If I had to travel overseas with my students again, I am comfortable bringing only my iPad, while leaving my laptop at home, because again, the iPad does what it need it to do in this specific context, and boasts a number of advantages over the laptop (longer battery life, ability to detach the keyboard, cellular connectivity).

It's like having a toolbox. I don't have this one magical widget that magically morphs into any tool that I want at any one time. Instead, I have a variety of tools, each with a specific use case for a specific purpose. I have a smartphone, a tablet, 2 laptops (one from work, one personal), an iMac (that I share with my dad), Apple TVs, a Nintendo switch (that I rarely use), Apple Watch and AirPods.

I don't need one device that can magically do them all, and I am willing to bet that even if there were such a product, having the best of all worlds likely means having to deal with the worst of all worlds as well.

The more I think about it, the more I find that the benefit of the iPad over the PC is accessibility and ease of use. I can't get all my work done solely from an iPad, but I appreciate that the iPad is different enough from a conventional computer that it affords me a unique user experience.

And I believe this is due to the iPad running iOS. For me at least, the iPad being a glorified blown-up iPod touch is a feature, not a bug.

If I may ask about "can't get all of my work done solely from an iPad" is that down to physically interfacing with the iPad or because menu options and whole apps aren't present?

 

[koelsh]

I keep coming back to this “artificially hampered”. To me, “hampered” is adding one feature that won’t provide satisfactory UX, and not adding everything just because you can. Of course, there are companies that go for the later, and customers that prefer it, but that has never been Apple’s approach, and it seems like they have been quite successful with their strategy. In my view, there shouldn’t be uses cases on a primary touch device where apps “can be tricky to use with fingers”. And I think it’s hard for people to realise how adding features almost always has downsides. It’s not ”add it and use it if you want“, the fact is that adding options always increases complexity, creates unintended incentives, etc.

I would also ideally want a device that would completely replace a MacBook and an iPad. But I just think that’s not possible. If you implement the optional precision of the mouse, you loose the possibility to always use touch input, which is the core definition of an iPad. I prefer Apple’s approach of trying to improve upon the foundation of a touch based interface. And I think they’re on their way to cover 99% of use cases. Due to this lack of mouse precision, I think the remaining 1% will be very hard to achieve (FCP, Logic, Xcode…), but anyway, I think for that we’d all rather prefer a big MBP.

I’m glad that you like your Surface, but I think the ability to detach the screen to write some notes is not a substitute for a tablet. Even for those use cases, every time I’ve tried them, it still feels like a traditional PC, with its traditional window management, non-natural screen rotation, etc. Once again, I’m happy that both models exist, but I’m surprised that so many people are surprised that Apple continues with their successful iPad concept against the less successful classic tablet PC.

TLDR what you see as limitations, because your field context is traditional PCs, to me it’s maximising the potential of a tablet.

If "can be tricky to use with fingers" is a metric for things that don't belong on the iPad then there's things Apple can cut out of iOS and plenty that should be thrown out of the app store.

I'm not sure about the precision of a mouse really bearing on what people are asking from the iPad. The kind of things OP and a few others have mentioned in this thread like formatting USB drives is a 4th entry in the context menu for a USB drive in the Files app. It's Music.app as a share sheet destination when the media type is music. It's an Apple published app like Shortcuts for something else the general populace can ignore.

Sure, adding anything increases complexity yet doing so thoughtfully can make using the system less complicated. Workflows that are 20 operations on iOS now could become 4.

Yes Apple's overall approach with the iPad is excellent and they are probably 70% of the way to covering 99% of use cases. Though that last 1% where virtual machines and Fortran live is beyond reasonable scope.

 

[Abazigal]

If I may ask about "can't get all of my work done solely from an iPad" is that down to physically interfacing with the iPad or because menu options and whole apps aren't present?

More of physical interfacing but a bit of UI as well.

One example is setting exam papers. For this, I prefer working on my 5k. Imac with its 27” display because I will often have multiple word documents open (present and past year papers for reference) and a spreadsheet for tracking which questions have been set. So a larger display is preferable in this regard.

I am not sure if I could in theory get all this done on an iPad. Mind you, the ipad got cursor support only recently, and I would likely need to have all the questions scribbled down on a piece of paper in front of me for entry. Switching between apps to copy and paste content (like images or question text) seemed like it would be a pain as well. But I am not going to that extent just to prove a point online.

I also work heavily with google docs and the google drive apps for iOS are fairly lacking in terms of functionality. I can view content just fine, but data entry remains a pain, and the apps don’t let me view more than one document at a time. Due to the pandemic, we assemble in the classrooms directly instead of the hall, and sometimes morning time with students involves sharing content from a number of sources. It’s more convenient to them all open on my laptop, then manually keep switching between apps on my iPad.

When I conduct zoom sessions, it’s over a PC as well, because of the limitations of zoom on iOS in screen sharing. But my iPad makes a great companion because I can mirror notability to my desktop and share that, allowing me to annotate directly in real time. I think I may have found a workaround with a third party zoom client (running the attendant app on my phone to manage participants) but again, felt like too much effort for no real benefit.

Just a few of the roadblocks that come to mind at the moment.

 

[MauiPa]

well, the surface 3 is literally very slow, so, glad you like it. Whatever you are using it for, must not be much

 

[JamesTheMac]

well, the surface 3 is literally very slow, so, glad you like it. Whatever you are using it for, must not be much

There you go. Another negative comment for the sake of it. Belittling what someone else is using a device for. Not really useful to the conversation.

Why can’t people just accept other people have use cases that mean the work they need to get done is simply not possible on a device that in some instances runs cut down versions of desktop apps, or can’t run the software at all.

If I were having to work on a complex spreadsheet with functions that are not available on the latest iPad version of excel or numbers, the older surface pro 3 would still allow me to do it, if I wanted to have the tablet form in the field.

But, of course, anyone that uses a Surface Pro 3 must be inferior to those that assume everything can be done on an iPad. So why would I even attempt to lower myself to using such ancient technology.

 

[Aoligei]

well, the surface 3 is literally very slow, so, glad you like it. Whatever you are using it for, must not be much

I could do Excel VBA on Surface or run Microsoft Visual Studio on Surface 3. It will run, it just matter how fast it can compile code. But it is not possible on iPad…..

 

[Aoligei]

More of physical interfacing but a bit of UI as well.

One example is setting exam papers. For this, I prefer working on my 5k. Imac with its 27” display because I will often have multiple word documents open (present and past year papers for reference) and a spreadsheet for tracking which questions have been set. So a larger display is preferable in this regard.

I am not sure if I could in theory get all this done on an iPad. Mind you, the ipad got cursor support only recently, and I would likely need to have all the questions scribbled down on a piece of paper in front of me for entry. Switching between apps to copy and paste content (like images or question text) seemed like it would be a pain as well. But I am not going to that extent just to prove a point online.

I also work heavily with google docs and the google drive apps for iOS are fairly lacking in terms of functionality. I can view content just fine, but data entry remains a pain, and the apps don’t let me view more than one document at a time. Due to the pandemic, we assemble in the classrooms directly instead of the hall, and sometimes morning time with students involves sharing content from a number of sources. It’s more convenient to them all open on my laptop, then manually keep switching between apps on my iPad.

When I conduct zoom sessions, it’s over a PC as well, because of the limitations of zoom on iOS in screen sharing. But my iPad makes a great companion because I can mirror notability to my desktop and share that, allowing me to annotate directly in real time. I think I may have found a workaround with a third party zoom client (running the attendant app on my phone to manage participants) but again, felt like too much effort for no real benefit.

Just a few of the roadblocks that come to mind at the moment.

You and me a complete different. I dislike using different devices for different purpose. Even if each different devices offers better user experience for different use cases.

I want a devices that do it all, even if this devices offer subpar experiences and I am okay with this. Surface devices offers subpar tablet experiences and subpar laptop experience, but I am okay with it. I don’t need use my iPad and have to switch to my PC or Mac for different task. Surface is also light enough for me to carry when I am travelling.

And regarding to formatting external drives, even if I am doing this once in ten years, I would rather have a device that has this capability than a devices that doesn’t.

 

[unrigestered]

Even worse than not being able to format a drive is the absence of a USB device eject function, so you can easily lose/destroy files even if you’re careful (but unlucky)

 

[Aoligei]

Even worse than not being able to format a drive is the absence of a USB device eject function, so you can easily lose/destroy files even if you’re careful (but unlucky)

Oh man, I have to re-index my exFAT formatted external drive on macOS few times, because I forgot to eject or macOS just refuse to eject my drive.

 

[rui no onna]

Even worse than not being able to format a drive is the absence of a USB device eject function, so you can easily lose/destroy files even if you’re careful (but unlucky)

Yeah, I don't trust the iPad with external storage. I have some 128-256GB dual USB-A/C flash drives in exFAT for sneaker-netting files between iPad and PC. I use NTFS on larger SSDs and HDDs since that's currently read-only on iPadOS so less chance of corruption.

I also make sure there are redundant copies of files on any drive that gets connected to the iPad.