I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but...

[SaSaSushi]

Well, no offence intended, but your comments are at odds with what certain others have said. Maybe you're right, but I'm not gonna drop that kinda money when there's any doubt about it!

No offense taken. I'm not sure what others have said but I can only speak from my own personal experiences. My i7 plays the games I enjoy very well. Do I expect it to run the games of 2 years from now at native resolution with blindingly fast frame rates? No.

Perhaps a home-built PC is your best solution. That way you can put in exactly what you want and have the ability to swap out parts in future.

I do understand your complaint about the relatively dated GPUs Apple uses in their machines, so we're sort of going in circles there. Yes, if it is critical for you to get a machine with the very latest GPU the iMac is not for you.

What is it that attracted you to the Mac anyway?

 

[dh2005]

It's as much that I've been repelled from the PC, as I've been attracted to the Mac!

My last two PCs have both gradually died, each of them lasting a little over a year; bloated with crapware that's apparently impossible to remove (Windows says it's gone, but it isn't...), running like turd, and crashing half a dozen times a day. I hate these things. I need a fresh approach.

I have several friends with Macs, and they got in my ear about defecting. I played with an iMac and a couple of MacBook Pros and I thought, "mm. Wouldn't it be nice to have something that worked as well as this...?".

 

[lilo777]

Case under a $100.

The Aluminum itself, just Aluminum would cost that much. What are you smoking?

The block of Aluminum itself would cost a $100, let alone the design. Here is a Aluminum 20lb "canister' for $104. Add the design and the manufacturing cost for such a design and the tempered glass and you are well over a $100. Closer to $200 is more like it.


http://www.aquariumplants.com/Aluminum_CO2_Cylinders_Tanks_p/t.htm

I have never owned a thinkpad that was all Aluminum unibody and tempered glass. How is Plastic better than Aluminum in terms of build quality?

Everything you just mentioned, every part added up is around $850. Say the panel costs $1000 and the internals are worth $850 that is still $1850 and how much you think the Aluminum and glass enclosure costs? Add that up to and the design. How about adding the Magic Mouse while your add it. I guarantee it costs twice as much as the cheapo mice out on the market. But there is nothing special about a multi-touch mouse. Right?

The 27 inch imac is a bargain for what you get. Expensive yes, but the fact of the matter is that there is not a PC All in one on the market with the Specs of the imac. Not one. The only way Apple is getting a profit is that they are not paying retail for the imacs parts, if they were they would most likely not make a profit on the machine.

So yes, build quality and quality of components are superior to most, if not all of Apples' competitors.

Nothing special about a 27inch beyond HD all in one computer with a all aluminum unibody glass body and multi-touch mouse. No nothing special at all.

There are tons of similar All in ones on the market right now.

Aluminum case from Lian Li (i.e. premium quality) - $60

 

[sfmountainbiker]

I haven't been following the conversation, but in terms of gaming I've found the i5 to be more than capable. I'm not nitpicky about framerates as long as things don't hick-up to a crawl. I do however, nitpick about graphics details, and only like to play in the highest res/detail possible.

That said, so far on the i5 I've played just about every modern title out there with few problems. I was particularly impressed with Modern Warfare 2 and Dirt 2 graphics on the system. I've also played some old school (SNES) games in OSX using an emulator, so there you go.

It did take a few tries, but I now have a flawless 27" iMac and couldn't be happier with it. Just a great machine.

 

[lilo777]

It's as much that I've been repelled from the PC, as I've been attracted to the Mac!

My last two PCs have both gradually died, each of them lasting a little over a year; bloated with crapware that's apparently impossible to remove (Windows says it's gone, but it isn't...), running like turd, and crashing half a dozen times a day. I hate these things. I need a fresh approach.

I have several friends with Macs, and they got in my ear about defecting. I played with an iMac and a couple of MacBook Pros and I thought, "mm. Wouldn't it be nice to have something that worked as well as this...?".

How is that relevant to original question? How does the fact that you "defected" help those who want to by Mac with a decent graphic card? You might defect back to PC tomorrow but the nagging problem of Macs having worse specs than PCs will remain.

 

[rtrt]

Speaking about games (I'm talking NES, SNES, Genesis, and old skool MAME...), do decent emulators exist for OS X?

there used to be a mame version for mac - macmame iirc.

think i remember having it way back on my imac g5.

whether it's still around i'm not sure

 

[SaSaSushi]

there used to be a mame version for mac - macmame iirc.

think i remember having it way back on my imac g5.

whether it's still around i'm not sure

There is indeed: Mame OS X

I use it quite frequently to remind me of all the quarters I wasted playing these games as a teenager.

 

[dh2005]

How is that relevant to original question? How does the fact that you "defected" help those who want to by Mac with a decent graphic card? You might defect back to PC tomorrow but the nagging problem of Macs having worse specs than PCs will remain.

I really don't follow you. You seem to be affronted that I have two separate thoughts in my head.

I would add that I opened this thread to help myself. If anyone else gets helped in the process, great. At no point have I held myself out as trying to help others. That's a deeply confusing comment.



EDIT: I see you've signed-off, so I'll explain everything that's brought me to this point.


1. I have had a number of serious problems with PCs; two have failed in 26 months.

2. Friends of mine with Macs encouraged me to try their machines.

3. I did so, and found their slick design and useability extremely appealing.

4. I decided to buy a Mac.

5. I went to apple.com/uk and tried to spec an iMac with a good graphics card, and found that this was impossible.

6. This confused me, so I opened this thread.

7. The bottom line seems to be that good graphics cards aren't available in an iMac, yet.

8. Because I need a new computer ASAP, I am now leaning towards a Mac Mini.

9. I may revisit the iMac range when new ones are released that suit my needs more comprehensively.


All clear, now?

There is indeed: Mame OS X

I use it quite frequently to remind me of all the quarters I wasted playing these games as a teenager.

Great. Thank you for that.


Could I PM you about a related matter?

 

[SaSaSushi]

Could I PM you about a related matter?

Absolutely, fire away.

 

[Pachang]

Well, no offence intended, but your comments are at odds with what certain others have said. Maybe you're right, but I'm not gonna drop that kinda money when there's any doubt about it!

Don't be in doubt!
sushi is right about the iMac being able to play games. As he said it can play COD6 at native res at more than playable resolution.
I don't know when the new ver of imacs will come out. I'd say some time in May as a very rough estimate.

 

[dh2005]

Ugh...!

May?! That's so soon, it makes me wonder whether I should wait and buying nothing in the meantime... but I need a new computer, quickly. This one stinks. Something more to think about...!


Thanks for your view.

 

[cwwilson]

I was originally going to buy a MBP but when I found out I won't be travelling near as much as I thought I was this year, I decided to switch my future purchase to an iMac. I won't be gaming much at all on it because I have a PS3 and an Xbox 360 for my gaming needs but the iMac really does seem like a good deal if you ask me. This only thing that disappoints is the fact they're still putting the old 9400m onboard in the base model. With the RAM, hard drive space and 3.0+ GHz CPU it packs, isn't that somewhat of a bottleneck? Would it be better to run one of nVIDIA's mobile GT-series cards instead? Other than that, I very much look forward to becoming a Mac convert in about a week's time and it just so hapens to be the week of my birthday when i'll be getting my iMac.

 

[dh2005]

See...?

All you nay-sayers, take note. My complaint is not uncommon among people looking to join the Mac community.

I think Apple should give this matter some attention. All they need do is offer the option to a superior graphics card - that way, those who were never interested won't need to pay for it; and those who are interested can happily get onbaord.

 

[HLdan]

See...?

All you nay-sayers, take note. My complaint is not uncommon among people looking to join the Mac community.

I think Apple should give this matter some attention. All they need do is offer the option - that way, those who were never interested won't need to pay for it; and those who are interested can happily get onbaord.

Well, TBH, your complaint (while quite valid) IS uncommon. Remember this is a geek forum and most people here want the most enviable specs to brag about. MR is less then 1/10th of 1% of Apple's customer base and most people who are tired of the pain of frustration of running a Windows PC come to the Apple store and are generally looking for a computer that solves their problems and is easy to use. Most people are not serious gamers and are not looking for the latest GPU.

 

[dh2005]

Well, TBH, your complaint (while quite valid) IS uncommon. Remember this is a geek forum and most people here want the most enviable specs to brag about. MR is less then 1/10th of 1% of Apple's customer base and most people who are tired of the pain of frustration of running a Windows PC come to the Apple store and are generally looking for a computer that solves their problems and is easy to use. Most people are not serious gamers and are not looking for the latest GPU.

All good points. But consider this; myself, the above poster and another member who started his own thread today have expressed almost identical complaints in the last four days. Consider that for every x people who're thinking it, only a handful are going to post on a forum.

And what's to stop Apple aspiring to add people like us to their 'customer base'? I spend a lot of money on computing hardware, every year. I should think they'd be happy to have me. And I'm not asking for a root-and-branch reconstruction of their iMac range. I'm asking for the option to add a superior graphics card.

 

[HLdan]

All good points. But consider this; myself, the above poster and another member who started his own thread today have expressed almost identical complaints in the last four days. Consider that for every x people who're thinking it, only a handful are going to post on a forum.

And what's to stop Apple aspiring to add people like us to their 'customer base'? I spend a lot of money on computing hardware, every year. I should think they'd be happy to have me. And I'm not asking for a root-and-branch reconstruction of their iMac range. I'm asking for the option to add a superior graphics card.

Okay, first I completely agree with you, secondly I didn't clarify myself. I have a 27" iMac i7 on order, waiting for delivery on Tuesday. I was originally going to go with the Core2 Duo 3.06Ghz but I want the most bang for the buck and the GPU is always important to me but for multiple reasons. Some of Apple's high end software requires a hefty GPU, AND I'm with you about the gaming. I like to play a few games and a good GPU will last for quite a while. Thing is, Apple has never given the top GPU in their computers because although there are some good 3D games on OS X, gaming has never really been something Apple promotes for the Macintosh.

Sorry, they don't care about Windows gaming, because a Mac is not a Windows machine regardless of Bootcamp. But I agree, options are always good. I think the openness of the iPad is a good start with Apple not requiring any contracts for the 3G service giving people the option to use it with any carrier. Hopefully we'll see more options for the computers.

 

[dh2005]

Agreed. Let's hope so.

 

[iamthedudeman]

I believe the term "street price" is not equivalent to "Best Buy price"

I wouldn't know, I don't shop at best buy.

Do a google search, and see if you can buy one for "way under' $1050.

Go ahead. See what you find.

one reason a lot of manufacturers produce in china ,is the chinese environmental laws which are and thats very optimistic only existing in a book , the workforce is underpaid average income annually is below 4000 british pound for a industrial worker , the rest lives just above the poverty line which is set by china at about 70 british pound annually income !!!
and about 14 million people in china live below that line , but they are always smiling
and corruption is normal a few do profit from foreign investors

so my guess is the screen you value at about 1000 dollar costs about 200 to produce in china if not less ,so i guess the whole iMac cost inclusive putting it all together packing it and shipping it to your door less then 700 dollar , the rest you pay is pure profit and some taxes

same for other manufaturers , ok others make like dell profit through high quantities

That is not the issue here. The question at hand is that can you build your own "PC' with better specs for way less. And I am saying no. I know for a fact you cannot. So the price at $1050 is the going rate for a monitor of equal quality of the 27 inch imac.

Aluminum case from Lian Li (i.e. premium quality) - $60

That is about one fifth the amount of Aluminum that is in the 27 inch Imac. Nice try though.

 

[MacHamster68]

That is not the issue here. The question at hand is that can you build your own "PC' with better specs for way less. And I am saying no. I know for a fact you cannot. So the price at $1050 is the going rate for a monitor of equal quality of the 27 inch imac.

equal quality?
that was sarcasm was it?
as we all know by now that there is a serious quality issue with these 27"screens

 

[archipellago]

Okay. Let's try a fresh approach...


... my current PC is toss. It needs replacing. If the iMacs aren't ideal for my needs, I'm gonna have to buy something more timid in the meantime. Save my 'total commitment' salvo for nine or ten months from now!

Does anybody have a view on the 2.53GHz/4GB Mac Mini? Obviously, "solid gaming performance" is off the table, now. But can it run 1080p video glitch-free? D'you reckon it'll run a couple of abandonware emualtors?

And it can run Excel and Firefox simultaneously without crashing six or seven times a day, right...?

(unlike my appalling PC)

sat here running win7 on a dual core celeron.. 2GB ram... $500 inc. monitor.

6 firefox tabs and 6 excel worksheets

no hiccups, quiet and smooth.

if your PC is crashing 6 times a day then there is something seriously wrong with it and the problem is more likely to be the one that faces you when you look in a mirror, rather than anything Win specific.

 

[dh2005]

if your PC is crashing 6 times a day then there is something seriously wrong with it and the problem is more likely to be the one that faces you when you look in a mirror, rather than anything Win specific.

I don't know whether you meant to insult me, but that doesn't read terribly nicely.


It's not really anybody else's business to question what I'm doing. Your experience is yours, and mine is my own. I hope your PC remains functional; but my previous two PCs haven't, and it's time for a change.

 

[archipellago]

I don't know whether you meant to insult me, but that doesn't read terribly nicely.


It's not really anybody else's business to question what I'm doing. Your experience is yours, and mine is my own. I hope your PC remains functional; but my previous two PCs haven't, and it's fine for a change.

it wasn't meant to be insulting, maybe the way you positioned a 'PC' as crashing 6 times a day as 'normal' was the same.

If YOU can do that to a PC then you'll do it to a Mac too.

here's a tip..

take the amount of money you were going to spend on a Mac... subtract $250, then go spend that on a decent brand Win 7 PC.

you'll be more productive and richer. ..

Macs don't just work, the distortion reality field can sometimes be mighty tempting though..

 

[dh2005]

it wasn't meant to be insulting, maybe the way you positioned a 'PC' as crashing 6 times a day as 'normal' was the same.

I said that "my" PC did that. At no point did I say this was "normal". Whatever you've read between the lines, you've extrapolated it yourself.

Your comment towards me was pointedly personal, making it much more potentially insulting. The comparison is fatuous.


As for the rest of your comments; Macs are at least different, and I want to try something different.

 

[archipellago]

I said that "my" PC did that. At no point did I say this was "normal". Whatever you've read between the lines, you've extrapolated it yourself.

Your comment towards me was pointedly personal, making it much more potentially insulting. The comparison is fatuous.


As for the rest of your comments; Macs are at least different, and I want to try something different.

no they aren't different, they just cost more but look prettier.

don't say I didn't warn you.

 

[dh2005]

no they aren't different, they just cost more but look prettier.

don't say I didn't warn you.

Those are two ways in which they're "different", are they not...?


And I won't say that you didn't warn me; you've warned me several times, and rather rudely. I'm sure that'll stick in my memory.