I have not seen this issue, but use a 3rd party client. If PIA offers their own client, it may be worth looking into.
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I have to reluctantly conclude: macOS Monterey is a horrible product, quality-wise
- Thread starter gctwnl
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I bought an M1 Macbook Air on Day 1 and I'm still waiting for a fix to the laggy mission control animations. Whenever I switch desktops there's like a 1 out of 10 chance it will just drop to extremely low fps and lag. It makes me sick every time I see it and I hope Ventura fixes it finally.
I don’t think you understood what I meant, or maybe I phrased it incorrectly.
PIA has their own client. It’s a good client but on Monterey it broke the ability to split tunnel on LAN (using their client). They’re aware of it and have submitted reports to Apple as they changed something major with networking in Monterey and are awaiting them to fix it.
I've used every variation of Mac OS on multiple machines and rarely encountered critical bugs in day-to-day usage. Currently running 12.5.1 on two machines, and it is far from 'buggy & fragile' I always do a clean install for Major OS upgrades and run the maintenance app Cocktail before any point upgrade. I have had a couple of odd bug reports replied to with thanks, that have been fixed.
Bugs, as described by Nermal, are so convoluted and edge case that it's no wonder they are not fixed. However, I agree that Apple's response is odd.
Overall though Monterey, for me and the many users I know personally, is way more usable, stable and accessible than any variety of Windows or Linux, the Mac hardware is superior and IMHO, the angst and anger expressed in this thread is way beyond reasonable.
Bugs, as described by Nermal, are so convoluted and edge case that it's no wonder they are not fixed. However, I agree that Apple's response is odd.
Overall though Monterey, for me and the many users I know personally, is way more usable, stable and accessible than any variety of Windows or Linux, the Mac hardware is superior and IMHO, the angst and anger expressed in this thread is way beyond reasonable.
It bugs me to no end, that Autocorrect on all Apple devices does not elegantly accept when I write an unusual name for the second time in messages, for example (after Autocorrect changed it) to just let it be - insisting instead of learning... I have the name even in my contacts, but nevertheless, Autocorrect is "correcting" this every xxxx time. It is plain stupid, and it never got fixed after many years of complaining.
So todays annoyance; the function keys (play/pause/volume/brightness..) no longer work.
What happened to "It just works"?
What happened to "It just works"?
From a devil's advocate point of view, if If Apple insiders read that attitude it's no wonder we have long-standing bugs that never get fixed. Whether or not they are what you consider to be 'convoluted and edge case' shouldn't matter. What you consider to be an 'edge case' bug could be critical to the workflow of someone else.
For those using a $2k+ Mac just to host Google Docs (etc), I salute you, it's highly unlikely Apple will ever launch an OS so buggy that it actually affects you. For the rest of us, some of us are annoyingly impacted by long-standing (or in my case, Monterey-specific) bugs that don't ever seem to get addressed. It's kinda insulting relegating our issues to the status of 'edge cases' as though our problems don't matter, when we've spent the same - or more - money on our Macs as the 'Google Docs' brigade.
Mine does the beach balling thing too. Was pretty bad on 12.4, though 12.5.1 has been mostly OK. Still have an issue with Window Server crashing at the login window after sleep, though it happens a lot less than on 12.4.
My freezing issues also seemed to happen with Safari - particularly when opening a new tab. Though I don't think they relate to Safari particularly, it's just an app that many of us use. That said, the OP mentioned TCP/IP issues with the familiar stuck / unstuck characteristic.
ROFL. If nothing else, this right here is SO true.
I don't disagree that we're seeing more of the "insane level of neglect," aspect more recently though, and it is worrying, especially as Apple Support has been pretty much gutted (still miles ahead of much of the competition but that's really not saying much.)
Along with the issues you mentioned (none of which I experience on M1 Max,) Monterey has some serious issues, including memory leaks in core applications/services such as Spotlight and FINDER(!), and HDR on exteral displays (and just external monitor/TV support in general) being wonky...
That said, I agree with others that there aren't really any perfect options out there. While Windows has gotten better but it's still a mess (when I ran my Hackintosh regularly, I found macOS modified to work on hardware Apple doesn't even use to often be more consistent/easier to troubleshoot than Windows.) Linux is still, well Linux (is lightweight, customizable and does some things very well, but can also be a pain in a lot of ways) albeit getting better as always.
Best of luck :/
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean here but; I have been using PIA on a wired connection for quite a while now, over a year. While PIA initially had issues with split tunneling the issue was fixed and I have been using split tunneling for quite a while. I have to use split tunnel since my email provider doesn't allow "Outside" connections. At least that is how I understand their comments to me during my troubleshooting. What version of PIA are you using?
And this is the problem with sites like this to me Big Sur was a bigger mess than Monterey. And Catalina was even worse to where it was purely unusable when I receive 5 kernel panics a day. Didn’t happen with Mojave. And didn’t happen with Big Sur.
I
You know that could be the cause of so many people’s issues. Windows taught me to NEVER upgrade. So every new release I format and start fresh. And every new device I treat as new and don’t migrate anything.
You know that could be the cause of so many people’s issues. Windows taught me to NEVER upgrade. So every new release I format and start fresh. And every new device I treat as new and don’t migrate anything.
So as a developer I guess i hit my Macbook M1 Max 16 pretty well. My biggest annoyance I'm finding is Finder. Why is this so buggy? I mean I download some images to a a directory and then try to switch it to gallery mode and it just freezes taking a minute or so to load each image when I click on it. Sometimes when I try to open images in Photoshop, it can't find the images I just downloaded to the directory? Then suddenly after a few minutes of fiddling they show up. The finder is so bad compared to Windows I can't believe it. I guess it must have something to do with the cloud backup of the documents folder, but it's very buggy to say the least. It certainly just doesn't work, as they like to say.
One problem that really ****ed me over was I was trying to backup a few specific files from a directory to an external hard drive. I only wanted to replace the specific files I selected, not the other ones that were in the folder which were versions I wanted to hold onto. Well somehow I also accidentally selected to folder level itself and so it not only copied all the files over, it erased any files that were in the old directory that were not copied in the new directory. And nothing went to the trash. It was all gone. I lost a 1.5 terabyte VM that took me over 48 hours non stop to recreate. I even tried programs to recover deleted files but that **** was all gone. I mean I learned my lesson, but that default behaviors seems VERY off and Windows file system never would have done that. It's just not that freaking stupid.
One problem that really ****ed me over was I was trying to backup a few specific files from a directory to an external hard drive. I only wanted to replace the specific files I selected, not the other ones that were in the folder which were versions I wanted to hold onto. Well somehow I also accidentally selected to folder level itself and so it not only copied all the files over, it erased any files that were in the old directory that were not copied in the new directory. And nothing went to the trash. It was all gone. I lost a 1.5 terabyte VM that took me over 48 hours non stop to recreate. I even tried programs to recover deleted files but that **** was all gone. I mean I learned my lesson, but that default behaviors seems VERY off and Windows file system never would have done that. It's just not that freaking stupid.
So.. I may not be the biggest Apple fan boy.. However..... Since Microsoft has completely lost my trust in all things they due since they released the largest spyware OS aka Windows 11.x. I have moved all of my personal stuff to Apple's OS, products and my gaming over to Linux without a problem. Proton is working like a charm and keeps getting better each update. That is how bad Microsoft has gotten. Buggy spyware OS! They do not understand workflow or product design like Apple does.
I often hear said that everyone makes mistakes; it's how they address them that's more important. That's not going to cut it with Apple. Their initial releases have many bugs. Given the size of their user base, it is likely very hard to fix things by addressing bug reports.
Guesswork follows...
I have no idea how many bug reports they get. I'd imagine it's somewhere between 10 and 1 million per day.
So, even if it's just a few thousand per day, they have to have some automated analysis working through the submissions, trying to isolate the actual issues before they make their way to the first level of human. The bug reports are likely messy, combining different issues or ineffectively describing the problems. Their bug reporting system, even for MacOS related issues, doesn't even require you to enter the version of the operating system. It would be a nightmare to achieve any kind of quality, driving things from this kind of user feedback.
People who phone their bugs into Apple Care aren't really making a dent in this. Tier 1 is unskilled and wastes a ton of the users' time.
I guess the big issues get their attention. Those are the issues in the news or those that have enough careful people submitting correlatable reports. But I suspect none of the issues I encounter fit that bill. An issue affecting only hundreds of people would hardly be noticed by them unless it was in the news.
Apple just has to stop producing C-level work from the start. Apple developers and testers need to be the ones finding the bugs.
Guesswork follows...
I have no idea how many bug reports they get. I'd imagine it's somewhere between 10 and 1 million per day.
So, even if it's just a few thousand per day, they have to have some automated analysis working through the submissions, trying to isolate the actual issues before they make their way to the first level of human. The bug reports are likely messy, combining different issues or ineffectively describing the problems. Their bug reporting system, even for MacOS related issues, doesn't even require you to enter the version of the operating system. It would be a nightmare to achieve any kind of quality, driving things from this kind of user feedback.People who phone their bugs into Apple Care aren't really making a dent in this. Tier 1 is unskilled and wastes a ton of the users' time.
I guess the big issues get their attention. Those are the issues in the news or those that have enough careful people submitting correlatable reports. But I suspect none of the issues I encounter fit that bill. An issue affecting only hundreds of people would hardly be noticed by them unless it was in the news.
Apple just has to stop producing C-level work from the start. Apple developers and testers need to be the ones finding the bugs.
Even though I'm running it on an unsupported Mac, Monterey still works pretty much flawlessly for me. There is the occasional graphical glitch when waking up from sleep, but that seems to only be the case when using a mini display port cable, same thing happens in Catalina.
Gotta be honest, this definitely isn't the first version of macOS to have issues for people. Sleep doesn't work properly on certain iMacs running Catalina when equipped with a Fusion Drive for example. Major issue for many, but not for all. That seems to be the case with most of your talking points. Personally I haven't noticed any of them.
Gotta be honest, this definitely isn't the first version of macOS to have issues for people. Sleep doesn't work properly on certain iMacs running Catalina when equipped with a Fusion Drive for example. Major issue for many, but not for all. That seems to be the case with most of your talking points. Personally I haven't noticed any of them.
I am so frustrated every day by how bug-riddled this operating system is. Every time I turn on my Mac it is to the wrong desktop background in the login screen. When my Mac runs out of battery, and I turn it back on after charging, the mouse is jittery. And searching shows only the most useless results from files added by software to my computer. I can't even take a screenshot, because dragging with the screenshot cursor immediately closes Spotlight!
I use Mac OS, TvOS, watchOS, iOS, iPadOS everyday.
They all work, yes, sometimes with little bugs, but nothing mission critical.
I do all my work on these devices and, yes, they just work.
I'd prefer Apple's OSes to anything Android and Windows cause I used and endured them both long enough.
Apple products are not supreme and as every application or system, there are errors and bugs.
World is not perfect and we have to live with it.
I prefer living with Apple products and I pay some little premium for that. In exchange, they save my time and make
me more efficient.
They all work, yes, sometimes with little bugs, but nothing mission critical.
I do all my work on these devices and, yes, they just work.
I'd prefer Apple's OSes to anything Android and Windows cause I used and endured them both long enough.
Apple products are not supreme and as every application or system, there are errors and bugs.
World is not perfect and we have to live with it.
I prefer living with Apple products and I pay some little premium for that. In exchange, they save my time and make
me more efficient.
Im a Mac user Since Mac OS 7.5! That was computer equivalent of walking on eggshells. You installed a plugin and hoped for the best. When an application crashed ( fairly frequently ) you hoped and preyed the whole system wasn't dragged down so you could save your work and reboot. Most of the time you hit that reset button. Mac OS X is not perfect as with all OSs. There are bugs. I'd be interested to know what alternative is more stable and has a better UI.
Having said all that I think there has been a reduction of quality in the rush to get a big release out every year. There should be a big release every two years with the year in between all about bug fixes and optimisation. I am staying on Big Sur at the moment. It took several updates to that for it to run well. Now its stable and fast for me. I tried Monterey and it was so sluggish. The features had nothing that interested me so I downgraded. I'll be keen to see the feedback on Ventura as Monterey is an OS to slip.
Having said all that I think there has been a reduction of quality in the rush to get a big release out every year. There should be a big release every two years with the year in between all about bug fixes and optimisation. I am staying on Big Sur at the moment. It took several updates to that for it to run well. Now its stable and fast for me. I tried Monterey and it was so sluggish. The features had nothing that interested me so I downgraded. I'll be keen to see the feedback on Ventura as Monterey is an OS to slip.
As Apple move towards the "unification" in software and development, there's no hope in sight that macOS release cycle would change from current one as iOS and others run on annual cycle. As Apple is increasingly "non-Mac-centric" it is obvious, which side is leading others in development.
Lower-level unification is starting to be more obvious after Intel platform and all its' remnants are gone (this might explain the drive to get more and more older Macs out of support on new releases as well - it is not impossible to assume that macOS 14 or 15 would be the end of support for all Intel-based Mac's because we are already at 2016'ish models in the line with Ventura) from developers to be worked on - which does not mean that life of Mac users would get any better because OS development for Mac has its' own issues compared to other Apple device platforms.
It is hard to say where it will eventually lead but for now it is hard to see light of new hope on the horizon...
You're right no one expects perfection, what they don't want is the reduction in quality we witness every time. Also seeing you raised a very valid other point, why is it every new OS has to slow the machine down compared to the original, even when doing the same tasks (metaphorical question)? We witness this all the time. We just kind of accept a Mac never runs as fast as it did when equipped with the OS it originally came with. That shouldn't be a compromise we have to endure.
Well the slowdowns do make sense.
Example, when they add something like sidecar or something new like control center, they are adding some system processes that take up CPU and RAM resources. But at a minimal cost. The issue is, when they roll out a bunch of these new features, that minimal cost per feature that needs to run a system service starts to add up.
Analogy, open one chrome tab. You’re all good, open 12 chrome tabs, if you don’t have enough RAM, you’ll know it then.
With all the bad software and bad experience out here, I’m concerned apple will never revise their strategy unless something goes horribly wrong (e.g 90% of users expressing their collective frustration with macOS or sth). Apple has become way too big to fail. Just a mere bad Monterey release wont really affect them much if at all. They have to fail harder, which I doubt.
In short, Ventura will be just as bad as Monterey for some folks and it is what it is. Voting with wallet and hoping for the best is prolly the best thing customer can do to pressure Apple.
In short, Ventura will be just as bad as Monterey for some folks and it is what it is. Voting with wallet and hoping for the best is prolly the best thing customer can do to pressure Apple.
Still on Mojave, no plans to leave.. works great, enjoying the popcorn while reading these posts.
Every year Apple pushes out a new OS, and every year we get 100's of new features along with ton's more bugs, and bugs which never were fixed from previous releases. Are bugs part of the new features now? Who knows, but it might catch up with them.