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I keep coming back to Windows and I am going to stay on it forever.

LIVEFRMNYC said:
Really??? A group policy?? Explain to the average home user all the steps to create a group policy and set it up, then look them in the eyes and say "it's that simple". Reply back with the reaction on their face. 😅🤣😂
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Relatively, configuring and reverting Windows 10 group policy is much easier than equivalent 'defaults' command-line tool on MacOS.

Windows 10 Group Policy
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10

MacOS 'defaults' command-line
https://www.shell-tips.com/mac/defaults/
 
mi7chy said:
'defaults' command-line tool on MacOS.
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Changing just about anything in windows is fairly straight forward and conceivable that a novice if they choose could undertake. Conversely making any changes to macOS requires more technical know how and issuing arcane and complex (to a novice) commands in the terminal. More so is the difference between Apple and Microsoft.

IMO Apple actively tries to prevent you from altering how you want your system to work, where as Microsoft actually makes things easier for people.
 
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ian87w said:
But deferring updates mean the next update will take even longer. Even 15 minutes can feel like a long time if you want to start working.
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Fair enough.

But like I said... there are huge amounts of time when you are not sitting at your computer.

Most people sleep for 8 hours. And most people are at work for 8 hours.

So that's 16 hours, every day, that your home computer is just sitting there behind an empty chair.

And it's a similar story for work computers, too. Think of all the time your work computer is sitting alone in the office while you're at home.

Let's say you work in an office from 8am-6pm. Well... 6pm-8am is wide open for your work computer to do its updating magic. :)

I dunno... I hear people slam Windows because of "constant updates" and/or "interruptions in the middle of work"

But it's not that bad. Like you said... small Defender updates happen quickly and don't require a reboot. But sometimes there is a bigger update that might take a while. Maybe once a month after a Patch Tuesday.

It's manageable.

Of course if you keep your computer turned off or you keep your laptop in its bag on weekend... then you've got quite a surprise waiting for you the next time you start it up.

But if updates are a part of our lives (they are!) then we'll have to adapt.

:p
 
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maflynn said:
I think that's a strawman argument. The average home users shouldn't be messing with group policies, and in fact setting active hours is more then enough for them. For the hobbyist or enthusiast, it would be something they could easily research.

In all honesty we can say the same thing when we see a post in the macos forum telling someone xyz is easily solved via a console command. Try telling that to the average home user...

The people here are not average home users and trying to use that as a reason is perhaps misguided.
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Not a strawman when it was claimed that "100% false that Windows will force you with updates."


maflynn said:
Oh and let me add there are much easier solutions to alter those settings I believe O&O shutup and other debloat scripts do this and have decent Uis so more inexperienced users won't be scared aware
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Thanks, I'll look into that.

The thing is I don't want to disable updates. I probably get Defender updates every 2-4 days and just let those install. It's the rest of the updates I like to look into before I decide to click install, and many times I just have forgot about it, until I turn my desktop on again and see it updating on it's own. I can be using my desktop for 3 days straight, then it'll be off for a week, then it might be on for the whole next week. I use multiple machines depending if I'm home or what I'm working on.
 
Michael Scrip said:
Fair enough.

But like I said... there are huge amounts of time when you are not sitting at your computer.

Most people sleep for 8 hours. And most people are at work for 8 hours.

So that's 16 hours, every day, that your home computer is just sitting there behind an empty chair.

And it's a similar story for work computers, too. Think of all the time your work computer is sitting alone in the office while you're at home.

Let's say you work in an office from 8am-6pm. Well... 6pm-8am is wide open for your work computer to do its updating magic. :)

I dunno... I hear people slam Windows because of "constant updates" and/or "interruptions in the middle of work"

But it's not that bad. Like you said... small Defender updates happen quickly and don't require a reboot. But sometimes there is a bigger update that might take a while. Maybe once a month after a Patch Tuesday.

It's manageable.

Of course if you keep your computer turned off or you keep your laptop in its bag on weekend... then you've got quite a surprise waiting for you the next time you start it up.

But if updates are a part of our lives (they are!) then we'll have to adapt.

:p
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Like you mentioned, most people close down their laptops when done. Many people have the concept of appliance, they open their laptops when they want to use it. Add on the muscle memory people have been taught for decades to shut down their computers after they're done. This is why imo so many people are annoyed with Windows Updates.

And imo a computer should be the one adapting to my needs. I shouldn't be "inconvenienced" by my tools. This is also one of the reasons why I'm actually switching to an Android tablet to replace my Windows laptop. The always on low power nature means that the tablet will still do its updates when it's not used.

I think Apple tried to solve this on their Macbooks with power nap, where the laptop can still do thing like updates when closed/sleeping. Not sure how well that works since I don't have one. I would think Intel MacBooks would heat up doing that while closed.
 
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LIVEFRMNYC said:
Not a strawman when it was claimed that "100% false that Windows will force you with updates."
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No, I think you misunderstood my point. The other member mentioned a way around automatic updates, and you posted that such actions would confuse a consumer. My point is there were other options, that were directly targeted towards the consumer and if a more experienced hobbyiest wanted to take to the next level, they can and have the tools and wherewithal to do so
 
Screen grabs. Taking a picture of something on the screen is a process in Windows. On a Mac it's as simple as CMD Shift 4. Opening the Snipping Tool in Windows, selecting New, then moving the floating dialogue box to see the edges of what you're snipping is a pain in the butt. I use this feature dozens of times a day at work. I find myself constantly trying to use the macOs keyboard shortcut on my work windows box.
 
rambo47 said:
taking a picture of something on the screen is a process in Windows.
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No it isnt

Its as simple as hitting the prtscn button. There's various key-combinations as well. Then there's the delivered snipping tool and many screen grab apps.

I personally use snagit, and it simplifies an already easy process further and gives me more tools
 
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rambo47 said:
Screen grabs. Taking a picture of something on the screen is a process in Windows. On a Mac it's as simple as CMD Shift 4. Opening the Snipping Tool in Windows, selecting New, then moving the floating dialogue box to see the edges of what you're snipping is a pain in the butt. I use this feature dozens of times a day at work. I find myself constantly trying to use the macOs keyboard shortcut on my work windows box.
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I prefer MacOs over windows but windows 10 allows you to do the same as macOS. Shift-Windows Key-S and the screen capture will show at the right bottom like macOS.
 
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MuGeN PoWeR said:
glad to be helpful!
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Honestly... I'm a long time Windows user, and never knew about that. I use snagit on my work computer since IT images are computers with it installed... but on my PC, I use the Print Screen button, and crop ii in an editing app. Shift + Windows Key + S is a really nice feature without installing 3rd party apps.
 
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erayser said:
Honestly... I'm a long time Windows user, and never knew about that. I use snagit on my work computer since IT images are computers with it installed... but on my PC, I use the Print Screen button, and crop ii in an editing app. Shift + Windows Key + S is a really nice feature without installing 3rd party apps.
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yup it is a nice feature. my Wife uses Windows for her work and has the same issue as yours as her computer is managed by IT Policies and what not. I googled this for her lol. When I got my windows machine from work the first thing I did was to erase it and reinstall everything since being a software developer I need to have full rights on my machine. glad I use macOS for work now without any MDM or anything!
 
I have used many desktop operating systems and I keep coming back to Windows. I tried OS/2 back in the day, and found out that, while it was very stable, it lacked the applications I could find only in the MS-DOS/Windows ecosystem.

I tried Linux a few times. I tried many different distributions over many years. Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, OpenSUSE, Fedora, Red Hat, PCLinuxOS, just to name a few. All of them lacked polish. And they lack the apps. Of course, there is also an open-source counterpart to Windows commercial apps. But then I find out they lack polish and that some of them are very basic. I tried to wait for some of them to be developed and unleash their potential, but, 10 or 15 years later, their pace of evolution is still just lacking. Linux is an absolute no-go for me. It was by using Linux that I started to value commercial software more.

I first used OS X in 2008, and I finally found Windows' match. Since then, I have been divided between Windows and macOS. Both were very polished. Windows had more software available to it, but macOS run on more premium hardware. More recently, though, I have to say that I chose Windows as my main operating system. Yes, macOS is fine and it runs beautifully. But Windows is great and it has evolved well. It runs the software I need. Games are usually developed for Windows. Microsoft Office, which is the software I mostly rely on, runs way better on Windows than on macOS. And, thanks to Apple's lead, Windows machines have evolved a lot in the last 10 years. Windows machines are generally cheaper and there are plenty of choices to choose from, and many of them are good now, some as premium as a Mac. In the end, both are good, but I chose Windows as a matter of convenience and practicality.
 
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skaertus said:
It runs the software I need. Games are usually developed for Windows. Microsoft Office, which is the software I mostly rely on, runs way better on Windows than on macOS.
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For anyone matching this criteria, mostly games and Office applications, I can at least understand a preference for Windows.

Anything outside of that, particularly any sort of software development, for me Windows has been and still is the absolute worst of all choices.

And, for my philosophy, Windows becomes more obnoxious and offensive with every release. Invasive services that are very difficult to disable, and that always seem to resurrect. Update policies that don't care when you want them or if you even want them at all. Treating users like advertising lab rats.

Apple may be guilty of stripping a lot of choice from the UI, and increasingly treating its users like subjects, but not as aggressively as Windows yet. They are inching closer to my breaking point though, so I'm always evaluating my future choices.
 
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CasualFanboy said:
For anyone matching this criteria, mostly games and Office applications, I can at least understand a preference for Windows.

Anything outside of that, particularly any sort of software development, for me Windows has been and still is the absolute worst of all choices.

And, for my philosophy, Windows becomes more obnoxious and offensive with every release. Invasive services that are very difficult to disable, and that always seem to resurrect. Update policies that don't care when you want them or if you even want them at all. Treating users like advertising lab rats.

Apple may be guilty of stripping a lot of choice from the UI, and increasingly treating its users like subjects, but not as aggressively as Windows yet. They are inching closer to my breaking point though, so I'm always evaluating my future choices.
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Well, I do not do any software development, so I cannot say in this respect.

As far as I am concerned, apart from web browsing, the vast majority of computers are used either for office applications or for gaming. Very few people that I know are software developers or video editors. So I suppose Windows should be a good choice for most people even according to your criteria.

I have a different view of Windows. I think it is a very good operating system (a view which I did not have some 25 years ago). I understand that both Microsoft and Apple have taken away a lot of choices from the UI, but I think it is a good thing. I have used Linux and I understand that it provides endless possibilities. However, I would have to build each of them from near scratch. And, even if I had the time and the expertise to do that (which I do not), it would end up looking amateurish, as I would never be able to build something as good as Microsoft or Apple with their hordes of employees dedicated to the task. This is one of the reasons (but not the only one) why I infinitely prefer both Windows and macOS over Linux.

Now, I do not get when you say that Microsoft treats users like "advertising lab rats" or that Apple treats them like "subjects". What do you mean?
 
CasualFanboy said:
For anyone matching this criteria, mostly games and Office applications, I can at least understand a preference for Windows.

Anything outside of that, particularly any sort of software development, for me Windows has been and still is the absolute worst of all choices.

And, for my philosophy, Windows becomes more obnoxious and offensive with every release. Invasive services that are very difficult to disable, and that always seem to resurrect. Update policies that don't care when you want them or if you even want them at all. Treating users like advertising lab rats.

Apple may be guilty of stripping a lot of choice from the UI, and increasingly treating its users like subjects, but not as aggressively as Windows yet. They are inching closer to my breaking point though, so I'm always evaluating my future choices.
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I appreciate the background you provide that led you to the conclusions you've drawn.

But I do disagree a bit with the thought that Microsoft is being more aggressive in treating their users like subjects than Apple. On the contrary, Apple has been far ahead of the curve there with their ecosystem. Microsoft is just playing catch-up. Microsoft looks worse in this regard because the change has been more prominent compared to their past. So yes, "more aggressive" in the context of recent history, but in the context of the longer arc of history, Apple is still king.
 
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I am in the process of migrating completely away from Windows. Tired of their proprietary software, security flaws and the never ending frikkin updates. I'll take macOS any day over Windoze.
 
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skaertus said:
Now, I do not get when you say that Microsoft treats users like "advertising lab rats" or that Apple treats them like "subjects". What do you mean?
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Microsoft / users as ad lab rats:
www.howtogeek.com

How to Disable All of Windows 10's Built-in Advertising

Windows 10 has a lot of built-in advertising.
www.howtogeek.com www.howtogeek.com

Apple / users as subjects - 3 words: on device scanning
This will be built into the operating system itself.
 
sracer said:
I appreciate the background you provide that led you to the conclusions you've drawn.

But I do disagree a bit with the thought that Microsoft is being more aggressive in treating their users like subjects than Apple. On the contrary, Apple has been far ahead of the curve there with their ecosystem. Microsoft is just playing catch-up. Microsoft looks worse in this regard because the change has been more prominent compared to their past. So yes, "more aggressive" in the context of recent history, but in the context of the longer arc of history, Apple is still king.
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Yeah I can't really find a strong disagreement with what you said. The upcoming update that will allow Apple to probe and trawl through your entire filesystem is the latest shining example.

Yes, I know it's for CSAM. No, I do not support CSAM. No, I don't want Apple to search my physical device for any reason whatsoever.
 
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maflynn said:
No it isnt

Its as simple as hitting the prtscn button. There's various key-combinations as well. Then there's the delivered snipping tool and many screen grab apps.

I personally use snagit, and it simplifies an already easy process further and gives me more tools
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and Microsoft will try to or title the image or video to a name.
while apple give that a random number no matter what.
 
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