I keep coming back to Windows and I am going to stay on it forever.

[ADGrant]

I said most users, not me.
Also, I can buy whatever I want.

Of course you can but if you just want to browse the web why make life complicated?

I think if you were correct in your assumption that most computers were just used to browse the web, chrome books would be a lot more popular outside the education market.

 

[ADGrant]

unless that item is floating in long branch, ca

anyways
 is good,  is great.
until 2013 came along.
Windows 10 seems more stable and user-friendly than many apple os, i found out today.

I use Windows and MacOS almost every day and I don't find windows to be more stable and user friendly. I have had Windows Update bork my OS installation and there are plenty of other reasons I don't really like Windows:

1) They still use drive letters even though floppy drives disappeared decades ago.
2) The standard command line interface still feels like it belongs on a computer from 1981.
3) If you try to delete a file that some process has open, the delete fails.
4) Doing something compute intensive can freeze the entire UI.
5) Visually, the OS is a mess. There are modern looking apps that popup a dialog box that looks like something from Windows XP. There is no consistent dark mode.

 

[iHorseHead]

Of course you can but if you just want to browse the web why make life complicated?

I think if you were correct in your assumption that most computers were just used to browse the web, chrome books would be a lot more popular outside the education market.

I've never seen any Chromebook's in my life. In schools everybody uses Windows, at least in Europe and most companies use Windows even though in some companies they only use Office web applications and everything else is done on a web browser as well. Teamviewer / Kaseya are the only real applications they have besides the web browser.

 

[iHorseHead]

I use Windows and MacOS almost every day and I don't find windows to be more stable and user friendly. I have had Windows Update bork my OS installation and there are plenty of other reasons I don't really like Windows:

1) They still use drive letters even though floppy drives disappeared decades ago.
2) The standard command line interface still feels like it belongs on a computer from 1981.
3) If you try to delete a file that some process has open, the delete fails.
4) Doing something compute intensive can freeze the entire UI.
5) Visually, the OS is a mess. There are modern looking apps that popup a dialog box that looks like something from Windows XP. There is no consistent dark mode.

I don't think you're using Windows.

macOS has screwed up my USB-Hubs and they literally flat out don't work anymore, thus I cannot use external displays on my MacBook and I can't even use ANY USB devices. Windows is far more stable than macOS is

1) I've always thought Macs should use letters in hard disks etc as well. I don't see any issues with that. It makes it WAY easier to monitor computers and servers.
2) No, it does not.
3) Macs don't even delete your stuff, but you gotta empty the recycle bin. For example you delete something from your external hard drive you also have to delete it from the trash can, because if you don't the file is going to be there the next time.
4) I can say the same for macOS. I've had my MacBook Air M1 crash several times a day on Big Sur even when I was just browsing the web, which is why I had to upgrade to macOS 12.
5) Windows XP's popup dialog looks completely different from Windows 10's. It's up to the developers implement it anyways. There are many Mac apps that still have Aqua close, minimise, resize buttons. Popcorn Time is one of them for example. So what?
The dark mode on Windows is better than on macOS. Once you change to dark mode everything changes into dark mode. No idea what your problem is. Due to my job I prefer light mode anyways, because it keeps me awake at nights.

 

[ADGrant]

I've never seen any Chromebook's in my life. In schools everybody uses Windows, at least in Europe and most companies use Windows even though in some companies they only use Office web applications and everything else is done on a web browser as well. Teamviewer / Kaseya are the only real applications they have besides the web browser.

There are companies in the US that use Google's office suite, particularly companies that don't use Windows. Most Windows centric companies I am familiar with also use the Microsoft Office Desktop apps. Outlook is the standard corporate email and calendar app and no meeting seems to be complete without a Powerpoint slide deck. Excel is a very popular platform for User Developed Applications. There are still plenty of Line of Business apps that are not web based. I have never seen Teamviewer or Kaseya.

My daughter's school uses Macs but many schools in the US use chrome books because they are cheap and are locked down.

 

[iHorseHead]

There are companies in the US that use Google's office suite, particularly companies that don't use Windows. Most Windows centric companies I am familiar with also use the Microsoft Office Desktop apps. Outlook is the standard corporate email and calendar app and no meeting seems to be complete without a Powerpoint slide deck. Excel is a very popular platform for User Developed Applications. There are still plenty of Line of Business apps that are not web based. I have never seen Teamviewer or Kaseya.

My daughter's school uses Macs but many schools in the US use chrome books because they are cheap and are locked down.

I don't live in the US, so I am telling you what I've seen in every European country where I've lived at. I personally think that children should learn to use everything.
There are a few companies that use Macs, but it's rare and they also use Microsoft Office. You get Microsoft Office for free everywhere though, but for whatever reason many healthcare facilities use Microsoft Office web apps. Only the managers use desktop apps, which is kinda weird, but then again it's none of my business. I've been just thinking that it's a bit odd.

I don't think you can visibly see Kaseya. It's just sitting on the background so IT support could connect to your computer (which is what we use it for), but some companies use TeamViewer (more visible, but usually have different names and sometimes even modified icons)

In Europe most schools use Windows. I've never actually seen Linux or a Mac. When I told to my programming teacher that I use a Mac he told me to buy a real computer.

 

[ADGrant]

I don't think you're using Windows.

macOS has screwed up my USB-Hubs and they literally flat out don't work anymore, thus I cannot use external displays on my MacBook and I can't even use ANY USB devices. Windows is far more stable than macOS is

1) I've always thought Macs should use letters in hard disks etc as well. I don't see any issues with that. It makes it WAY easier to monitor computers and servers.
2) No, it does not.
3) Macs don't even delete your stuff, but you gotta empty the recycle bin. For example you delete something from your external hard drive you also have to delete it from the trash can, because if you don't the file is going to be there the next time.
4) I can say the same for macOS. I've had my MacBook Air M1 crash several times a day on Big Sur even when I was just browsing the web, which is why I had to upgrade to macOS 12.
5) Windows XP's popup dialog looks completely different from Windows 10's. It's up to the developers implement it anyways. There are many Mac apps that still have Aqua close, minimise, resize buttons. Popcorn Time is one of them for example. So what?
The dark mode on Windows is better than on macOS. Once you change to dark mode everything changes into dark mode. No idea what your problem is. Due to my job I prefer light mode anyways, because it keeps me awake at nights.

Not only do I use Windows every work day, I write software that runs on Windows. I have been writing Windows software on and off since Windows 1.0. One app I use is Visual Studio 2019. A Microsoft app that when in dark mode still displays its configuration dialogs in light gray. It is also still a 32bit application. Microsoft has only switched to 64bit with Visual Studio 2022.

I am not sure how familiar you are with Windows given you recycle bin comment. Windows has had a recycle bin for decades. I don't see how drive letters make anything easy, Unix based operating systems have never used them. Everything is a file path.

I have never had Big Sur crash for me but I am running it on an Intel Mac (on which I occasionally run Windows). I have also never had an update force me to re-install MacOS. The M1 Macs are first generation products that have well know weaknesses around external video and TB4/USB performance. For a problem free experience, I would recommend avoiding first gen products from anyone.

 

[ADGrant]

In Europe most schools use Windows. I've never actually seen Linux or a Mac. When I told to my programming teacher that I use a Mac he told me to buy a real computer.

Your programming teacher seems very ignorant. Not a great characteristic in a teacher.

You should probably let him know that most developers at Google and other leading US tech companies use Macs to host their development environment.

 

[Michael Scrip]

As a Windows user for roughly 30 years... I can admit that there are imperfections in Windows. And there are imperfections in other platforms as well.

But this is the first time I've heard the "drive letters" argument.

Sort of a weird thing to focus on... but ok.

 

[AL2TEACH]

lol, I guess when one person states one is better than the other and people reply, okay and happy for ya, we will inch closer to world peace and ending hunger and etc...
lol fun to glance thru though.

 

[ADGrant]

As a Windows user for roughly 30 years... I can admit that there are imperfections in Windows. And there are imperfections in other platforms as well.

But this is the first time I've heard the "drive letters" argument.

Sort of a weird thing to focus on... but ok.

In Unix shells you have one current directory, in DOS/Windows you have a current directory for every drive letter. The main system drive is typically the C drive because the A and B drive letters were reserved for floppy disk drives even though PCs haven't had floppy drives for decades.

I forgot to add that the path separators go the opposite way to Unix path separators which is really annoying because
the DOS/Windows path separator is also the escape char in most programming languages so if you embed a file path in a literal string it can get quite ugly. e.g. char* path = "C:\\somedir\\somefile.txt".

 

[iHorseHead]

I am not sure how familiar you are with Windows given you recycle bin comment. Windows has had a recycle bin for decades

I said that if you delete something off of external hard drive on a Mac you also have to delete it from the recycle bin on a Mac, because otherwise it won't really delete your files.
I said nothing about Windows recycle bin and on Windows you don't have to delete files from a recycle bin if you delete something on external hard drive. It just deletes it.

I also write software on Windows and I'm not sure what kind of software you write, because you seem out of touch. Do you know how many businesses still rely on 32bit applications world-wide? There's a reason why Microsoft hasn't moved forward.
And it displays errors in a black text popup, not grey, at least on Visual Studio 2022.
There have been huge security flaws even on macOS such as root in High Sierra and Windows has never forced updates on me either. If you don't want to update just turn it off on the settings. It's as simple as that and also, I don't mind updates.
Lately I've experienced way more problems on a Mac than on Windows and it's funny, because I remember when Mac OS X Leopard and Snow Leopard were rock solid for me and were way better than Windows. Nowadays it seems to be the other way around. Windows 10 has been rock solid for ages.

Same with Windows 7 and even Windows Vista was good. Never had any issues with Vista or even with Mac OS X Lion that people bashed and hated so much. It's now that I have problems with my Mac.

Me not being able to connect my USB hubs is a software bug, not a hardware bug. I'd expect something like that on Linux, not macOS or Windows.

Microsoft has better software than Apple. OneNote is awesome and nice while Notes is a 'meh' for me. I hope Apple redesigns it on next releases and we'll have more features such as tabs etc.

- Doesn't look gray to me.

 

[iHorseHead]

In Unix shells you have one current directory, in DOS/Windows you have a current directory for every drive letter. The main system drive is typically the C drive because the A and B drive letters were reserved for floppy disk drives even though PCs haven't had floppy drives for decades.

I forgot to add that the path separators go the opposite way to Unix path separators which is really annoying because
the DOS/Windows path separator is also the escape char in most programming languages so if you embed a file path in a literal string it can get quite ugly. e.g. char* path = "C:\\somedir\\somefile.txt".

So? It makes monitoring hard disks very easy.

 

[iHorseHead]

Your programming teacher seems very ignorant. Not a great characteristic in a teacher.

You should probably let him know that most developers at Google and other leading US tech companies use Macs to host their development environment.

I already graduated, but a lot of people hate Macs and iOS devices, but the truth of the matter is that they're not bad at all, but neither are other devices and operating systems.

 

[Michael Scrip]

In Unix shells you have one current directory, in DOS/Windows you have a current directory for every drive letter. The main system drive is typically the C drive because the A and B drive letters were reserved for floppy disk drives even though PCs haven't had floppy drives for decades.

I forgot to add that the path separators go the opposite way to Unix path separators which is really annoying because
the DOS/Windows path separator is also the escape char in most programming languages so if you embed a file path in a literal string it can get quite ugly. e.g. char* path = "C:\\somedir\\somefile.txt".

But what is the actual problem with drive letters? You're the one who said you don't really like Windows because they still use drive letters.

Personally... I don't see a difference between:

Hard Drive 1
Hard Drive 2

and

C:
D:

It may be different than the way other platforms do it... but I don't think it's good or bad. It's just whatever.

 

[ADGrant]

I also write software on Windows and I'm not sure what kind of software you write, because you seem out of touch. Do you know how many businesses still rely on 32bit applications world-wide? There's a reason why Microsoft hasn't moved forward.
And it displays errors in a black text popup, not grey, at least on Visual Studio 2022.
There have been huge security flaws even on macOS such as root in High Sierra and Windows has never forced updates on me either. If you don't want to update just turn it off on the settings. It's as simple as that and also, I don't mind updates.
Lately I've experienced way more problems on a Mac than on Windows and it's funny, because I remember when Mac OS X Leopard and Snow Leopard were rock solid for me and were way better than Windows. Nowadays it seems to be the other way around. Windows 10 has been rock solid for ages.

Same with Windows 7 and even Windows Vista was good. Never had any issues with Vista or even with Mac OS X Lion that people bashed and hated so much. It's now that I have problems with my Mac.

Me not being able to connect my USB hubs is a software bug, not a hardware bug. I'd expect something like that on Linux, not macOS or Windows.

Microsoft has better software than Apple. OneNote is awesome and nice while Notes is a 'meh' for me. I hope Apple redesigns it on next releases and we'll have more features such as tabs etc.

- Doesn't look gray to me.

I write trading applications using C++ and you don’t need to use a 32bit IDE to write 32bit applications. I am aware some companies have old legacy 32bit apps but I thought you said most people just use web apps.

My issue with the Windows Updates weren’t that they were forced. It was that they broke my Windows installation.

The core MS Office desktop apps are excellent including OneNote. Wish I could say the same about MS Teams.

You not being able to connect to your USB port is probably a device driver bug but you chose to use a first gen product. I have had no issues with Big Sur on Intel hardware.

That dialog box looks gray and white to me.

 

[triptolemus]

But what is the actual problem with drive letters?

,8,1 ftw.

 

[iHorseHead]

I am aware some companies have old legacy 32bit apps but I thought you said most people just use web apps.

Most regular people such as my mom etc…
Most people just use a web browser to visit Facebook and YouTube on their computer. Nothing else. You could make a Linux distro look like Windows 10 and see how long it takes them to notice that they're not using Windows anymore and start complaining about everything.

My issue with the Windows Updates weren’t that they were forced. It was that they broke my Windows installation.

Well, as you said your Mac has never crashed I say my Windows has never broke due to Windows update.

Wish I could say the same about MS Teams.

Okay, I agree with you. Microsoft Teams is a nightmare and it's horrible. Everything about it is just horrible. The search function, their web app, account management (switching accounts and if you have to do it several times a day it'll break your Teams). Microsoft Teams is absolute garbage yet every company is using it and a lot of people are forced to use it daily. I especially love when you're looking for some document and it just won't open nor download it.

You not being able to connect to your USB port is probably a device driver bug

When I asked for help on here I was told it's a known issue. It's still Apple's fault and you gotta admit Apple is rushing their OS releases.
They weren't even able to implement all of the promised features because they were rushing it. I'd be perfectly fine going back to 2 year release cycles.

 

[Cape Dave]

Most regular people such as my mom etc…
Most people just use a web browser to visit Facebook and YouTube on their computer. Nothing else. You could make a Linux distro look like Windows 10 and see how long it takes them to notice that they're not using Windows anymore and start complaining about everything.


Well, as you said your Mac has never crashed I say my Windows has never broke due to Windows update.


Okay, I agree with you. Microsoft Teams is a nightmare and it's horrible. Everything about it is just horrible. The search function, their web app, account management (switching accounts and if you have to do it several times a day it'll break your Teams). Microsoft Teams is absolute garbage yet every company is using it and a lot of people are forced to use it daily. I especially love when you're looking for some document and it just won't open nor download it.


When I asked for help on here I was told it's a known issue. It's still Apple's fault and you gotta admit Apple is rushing their OS releases.
They weren't even able to implement all of the promised features because they were rushing it. I'd be perfectly fine going back to 2 year release cycles.

I agree 100% Yearly updates are useless. Barely enough time to work out the current bugs, before adding more useless features with more bugs. It would solve MANY issues.

 

[MBAir2010]

nice replies, and banter!
most of the items and procedures lists above are non noticeable.
as far as a pet peeve in mac is,
i need to close or unselect a Photoshop file in finder or the image can't be saved.
this has ben driving me crazy since last decade!

windows can perform more tasks, use more software and can delete candy crush
while we  boys can't delete game center or their news program.
not that i tis used or noticeable, but we are stuck with stagnate apps.

now i need to find out why my 2012 apple tv won't sync with my 2010 iPod touch.
hopefully mountain lion will take care of that!

enjoy your computing experience, everybody!

 

[skaertus]

I write trading applications using C++ and you don’t need to use a 32bit IDE to write 32bit applications. I am aware some companies have old legacy 32bit apps but I thought you said most people just use web apps.

My issue with the Windows Updates weren’t that they were forced. It was that they broke my Windows installation.

The core MS Office desktop apps are excellent including OneNote. Wish I could say the same about MS Teams.

You not being able to connect to your USB port is probably a device driver bug but you chose to use a first gen product. I have had no issues with Big Sur on Intel hardware.

That dialog box looks gray and white to me.

MS Teams is terrible. On both Windows and Mac.

The problem is that you either need it or not. If your organization uses Teams, you have to use it. If your client uses Teams, you have to use it.

You cannot simply just go, "hey, use Teams if you want, I am using Zoom or whatever and I will join the meeting at the scheduled time".

And I still think that MS Teams, bad as it is, still runs better on Windows than on Mac.

 

[polyphenol]

But what is the actual problem with drive letters?

One problem used to be that one drive could have its letter taken by another drive.

Many times, I have seen drives disappear and, sometimes, re-appear with a different letter. For example, on a machine with two hard drives (or partitions), C: and D: losing D: when a CD drive is plugged in. Though the CD drive could shift to E:, or next free drive letter, and might later re-appear as D: when the CD drive is unplugged.

Many memory card devices nab multiple drive letters when they are plugged in. Which means that many existing devices can be affected by plugging one hardware device.

Anything which uses a drive letter can be upset by this - either not working at all or acting on a different drive to the one intended.

It can cause much confusion if you have a dual-boot machine with every drive ending up with a different letter under OS A than it has under OS B.

In the past, there was also confusion as A: and B: could only be floppy drives.

Problems if you need more than 26 drives!

Some of these issues might only have existed in old versions or a specific range of releases, or the precise behaviour might vary across releases. There might also be other issues.

 

[Michael Scrip]

One problem used to be that one drive could have its letter taken by another drive.

Many times, I have seen drives disappear and, sometimes, re-appear with a different letter. For example, on a machine with two hard drives (or partitions), C: and D: losing D: when a CD drive is plugged in. Though the CD drive could shift to E:, or next free drive letter, and might later re-appear as D: when the CD drive is unplugged.

Many memory card devices nab multiple drive letters when they are plugged in. Which means that many existing devices can be affected by plugging one hardware device.

Anything which uses a drive letter can be upset by this - either not working at all or acting on a different drive to the one intended.

It can cause much confusion if you have a dual-boot machine with every drive ending up with a different letter under OS A than it has under OS B.

In the past, there was also confusion as A: and B: could only be floppy drives.

Problems if you need more than 26 drives!

Some of these issues might only have existed in old versions or a specific range of releases, or the precise behaviour might vary across releases. There might also be other issues.

Ah yes.

I actually use a little utility to assign/manage drive letters since I have many internal drives and also use a variety of external flash drives and card readers on a regular basis.

But I'm a geek... I wonder how many average users get affected by this?

Drive letters have been a staple of Windows since the beginning (going back to the DOS days too!)

I doubt Microsoft will ever abandon them.

Welp... we can add "drive letters" to the list of why Macs rules and PCs drool.

 

[polyphenol]

Ah yes.

I actually use a little utility to assign drive letters since I have many drives and also use a variety of flash drives and card readers on a regular basis.

But I'm a geek... I wonder how many average users get affected by this?

Drive letters have been a staple of Windows since the beginning (going back to the DOS days too!)

I doubt Microsoft will ever abandon them.

Welp... add drive letters to the list of why Macs rules and PCs drool.

The fact you need a little utility says it all, really.

I have seen lots and lots of "average" users hit problems. Mostly drive letter shifting. Plug a camera or USB stick in and lose the CD drive.

 

[Michael Scrip]

The fact you need a little utility says it all, really.

I have seen lots and lots of "average" users hit problems. Mostly drive letter shifting. Plug a camera or USB stick in and lose the CD drive.

The utility isn't just for affixing drive letters. It's called "USB Safely Remove" and it's simply a more advanced version of Windows' built-in drive removal function. I like it.

Remember... there are plenty of little Mac utilities to "fix" problems with MacOS. I wouldn't say Windows is the only OS that has niggles.