I refuse to buy an Apple Silicon Mac with only 8 GB RAM!

[MrGunny94]

Software developer. I had 16 GB of RAM on my M1 MacBook Air. It seemed a little cramped for space sometimes so I went with 24 GB this time.

Makes sense, I have 16GB on my M1 Pro, but moved 12GB worth of VMs to the cloud to be able to use it like this. I also need to test things out in x86 binaries so it's not a issue for me.

Currently running one small Fedora KDE VM via Parallels and quite happy with my workflow atm.

 

[ian87w]

Unless the rest of the industry soon switches to 16 GB RAM standard on base model laptops, Apple staying with 8 GB base RAM indefinitely is probably going to keep older Macs viable for longer: it makes it so developers (particularly web developers) have to take into consideration an 8 GB standard target when shoving excess JavaScript and assets into a webpage.

If the fast pace of base RAM increase from 2001 to 2011 had continued from 2011 to 2021, 10-year-old MacBooks with 8 GB RAM would be much less usable for modern tasks than they are today.

The industry has moved to 16GB standard at Apple’s price points. Even cheaper laptops are available with 16GB RAM nowadays.

 

[Tagbert]

The industry has moved to 16GB standard at Apple’s price points. Even cheaper laptops are available with 16GB RAM nowadays.

But a lot of PC vendors do still push those 8GB/256GB models, too, and at surprisingly high prices.

I agree that Apple should upgrade their base specs, especially when they are raising prices. The problem is that they depend on people upgrading the RAM and SSD as part a big contributor to their profit margins. Those upgrades are very profitable. If they upgrade the base, that means fewer customers will spend the extra money for upgrades. They won’t do anything to risk those margins.

 

[ian87w]

But a lot of PC vendors do still push those 8GB/256GB models, too, and at surprisingly high prices.

I agree that Apple should upgrade their base specs, especially when they are raising prices. The problem is that they depend on people upgrading the RAM and SSD as part a big contributor to their profit margins. Those upgrades are very profitable. If they upgrade the base, that means fewer customers will spend the extra money for upgrades. They won’t do anything to risk those margins.

Windows laptops with 8/256 ar emostly way below Apple's price points.
Here's what I get form visiting Bestbuy website and looking at their best selling laptop:
Dell Inspiron 2in1: 16/512, $999
HP Envy x360: 8/256, $499
Lenovo Ideapad: 12/512, $529
HP Victus: 16/512, $849

You can simply see that at Apple's price points, the standard has been 16/512. 8/256 is for much cheaper laptops.

And yes, I agree. The whole point is to gain more profit from those RAM upgrades, which conveniently soldered so people would either have to spend more right off the gate, or upgrade sooner once they found out they need more. Thus I believe Apple would maintain 8/256 and 8/512 as pre-configured models for years to come. I doubt this will change even in the next 3 to 5 years. Heck, Apple is still selling a 2 year old laptop at its original launch price (M1 Macbook Air). Tim's Apple is no longer about making the best product, but about getting the most profit on every corners.

 

[leman]

The industry has moved to 16GB standard at Apple’s price points. Even cheaper laptops are available with 16GB RAM nowadays.

This is factually wrong. While you can get a cheaper laptop with 16GB RAM it will cut corners elsewhere (e.g. display, system performance or build quality). Premium products with comparable spec to the M2 MBA are not cheaper.

 

[MajorFubar]

Unless the rest of the industry soon switches to 16 GB RAM standard on base model laptops, Apple staying with 8 GB base RAM indefinitely is probably going to keep older Macs viable for longer

It should in theory but in practise it doesn't. As soon as Apple decide your machine is too old run run their latest OS, the obsolescence clock starts ticking from that point forward, no matter what the spec is. It's less of an issue if you're fine with running old apps, but as soon as you need (or want) to run newer software unsupported by your computer's obsolete OS, you're kinda screwed.

 

[leman]

Windows laptops with 8/256 ar emostly way below Apple's price points.
Here's what I get form visiting Bestbuy website and looking at their best selling laptop:
Dell Inspiron 2in1: 16/512, $999
HP Envy x360: 8/256, $499
Lenovo Ideapad: 12/512, $529
HP Victus: 16/512, $849

These are all budget laptops. If you are looking for a premium business model you won’t buy a Dell Inspiron. That’s an entirely different market segment.

Laptops in the same class as the M2 Air should have the following characteristics: thin and light, 200+ PPI display with 400+ but brightness and wide color gamut, at least 1240p/6800U, long battery life. That’s models like the upgraded Dell XPS Plus, Microsoft laptops, Lenovo business laptops etc. you will find that they are not cheaper than what Apple offers.

 

[MayaUser]

Windows laptops with 8/256 ar emostly way below Apple's price points.
Here's what I get form visiting Bestbuy website and looking at their best selling laptop:
Dell Inspiron 2in1: 16/512, $999
HP Envy x360: 8/256, $499
Lenovo Ideapad: 12/512, $529
HP Victus: 16/512, $849

You can simply see that at Apple's price points, the standard has been 16/512. 8/256 is for much cheaper laptops.

And yes, I agree. The whole point is to gain more profit from those RAM upgrades, which conveniently soldered so people would either have to spend more right off the gate, or upgrade sooner once they found out they need more. Thus I believe Apple would maintain 8/256 and 8/512 as pre-configured models for years to come. I doubt this will change even in the next 3 to 5 years. Heck, Apple is still selling a 2 year old laptop at its original launch price (M1 Macbook Air). Tim's Apple is no longer about making the best product, but about getting the most profit on every corners.

good joke man...comparing an entry, budget, poor mans laptops with the premium spectrum of the industry...nice try
Its clear a man whos looking at those prices is clear that Apple is out of his reach
Is like an VW man looking at mercedes prices and comparing apple and oranges...

just for the record somebody at my firm took for his own personal use an Hp Victus...jesus christ...that feel and works cheap and is almost the price of an M1 MBA (config was AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800H, 16.1", Full HD, 144HZ, 16GB, 512GB SSD, NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3050) , the only thing was the display size...but that wasnt an ultraportable laptop anymore...but since you placed it here...

the plastic for the case/screen leaves much to be desired, it seems very fragile and a vibration can be heard from the laptop (on the lower right side), if the case is slightly hit; it sounds like one of the parts isn't attached well;
- the screen is quite unstable, probably because of the hinges which are not rigid enough - when the hands move more suddenly on the keyboard it vibrates quite strongly
And that is just from build stand point (he return and exchange it twice, this is how is build)

 

[thenewperson]

The point was 16/512 is standard on Windows laptops at Apple's price points

But not on the ones at Apple's quality. RAM and SSD capacities aren't the only considerations when buying a computer.

 

[AlixSPQR]

This is factually wrong. While you can get a cheaper laptop with 16GB RAM it will cut corners elsewhere (e.g. display, system performance or build quality). Premium products with comparable spec to the M2 MBA are not cheaper.

That’s not a truly valid argument, you are just basically stating that other PC’s, including premium ones, isn’t an M2 MBA. We already know that.

 

[leman]

That’s not a truly valid argument, you are just basically stating that other PC’s, including premium ones, isn’t an M2 MBA. We already know that.

Absolutely not. I am just saying that one can't take a laptop with an average mass produced 250nit panel and then claim that Apple is overpriced. M2 MBA is a premium machine and should be compared agains other premium machines. I have looked at many premium business PC laptops and I can't find anything with 16GB for considerably cheaper than M2 Air. Examples:

Cheapest comparable Dell (13" XPS Plus 1240p/4K-500nit/16GB/512GB): $1,749
Cheapest comparable Lenovo (ThinkBook Plus 2/ThinkPad X13 with corresponding spec): $1600-1700
Cheapest comparable HP (Spectre x360 13.5" i7-1255U/3x2K OLED 400nit/16GB/512GB): $1649

 

[ian87w]

But not on the ones at Apple's quality. RAM and SSD capacities aren't the only considerations when buying a computer.

Again, point of discussion is about amount of RAM as standard.

I'm out.

 

[Ethosik]

Again, point of discussion is about amount of RAM as standard.

I'm out.

RAM is not the only thing that makes a computer. Dell has a $4,000 system with only 8/256 setup. But you get other things for that $4,000. That’s what others are saying here. We get better displays, trackpad, ports (sometimes based on some Windows laptops I seen) and more.

 

[ahurst]

It should in theory but in practise it doesn't. As soon as Apple decide your machine is too old run run their latest OS, the obsolescence clock starts ticking from that point forward, no matter what the spec is. It's less of an issue if you're fine with running old apps, but as soon as you need (or want) to run newer software unsupported by your computer's obsolete OS, you're kinda screwed.

My main portable was a 2011 machine running El Capitan until late 2021, so I’m well aware of the limitations 😉. Thankfully Firefox and Chrome maintain pretty good support for older macOS releases so the modern web generally isn’t an issue, and most other software (Word processors, music production stuff, text editors, etc.) doesn’t have as strong an expiration date as browsers do.

 

[ahurst]

RAM is not the only thing that makes a computer. Dell has a $4,000 system with only 8/256 setup. But you get other things for that $4,000. That’s what others are saying here. We get better displays, trackpad, ports (sometimes based on some Windows laptops I seen) and more.

It’s like someone in the 90’s refusing to buy a BMW 5-Series until they offer the M5 at base-model prices because you can buy a Dodge Spirit R/T that’s *technically* faster than the M5 in a straight line for less money:

Just because you can get better performance (in a narrow sense) for less by compromising quality and performance in virtually every other domain doesn’t imply other manufacturers are doing people wrong by offering a different 0-60 time vs price/handling/comfort/reliability/safety/etc. tradeoff.

Heck, my old X220 technically supports 16 GB RAM with a patched BIOS. Is it reasonable to argue that all $300 Chromebooks should come with 16 GB standard because you could buy/upgrade an X220 for the same price, or would that be ignoring the notable trade offs you would be making for that RAM capacity with 11 year-old hardware?

 

[Ethosik]

It’s like someone in the 90’s refusing to buy a BMW 5-Series until they offer the M5 at base-model prices because you can buy a Dodge Spirit R/T that’s *technically* faster than the M5 in a straight line for less money:

View attachment 2046237

Just because you can get better performance (in a narrow sense) for less by compromising quality and performance in virtually every other domain doesn’t imply other manufacturers are doing people wrong by offering a different 0-60 time vs price/handling/comfort/reliability/safety/etc. tradeoff.

Heck, my old X220 technically supports 16 GB RAM with a patched BIOS. Is it reasonable to argue that all $300 Chromebooks should come with 16 GB standard because you could buy/upgrade an X220 for the same price, or would that be ignoring the notable trade offs you would be making for that RAM capacity with 11 year-old hardware?

Yep I agree! If you want a 1080p display with less colors and nits, less ideal trackpad and sometimes less ports? Feel free! But many people on here think it’s ONLY RAM and SSD that makes up a computer.

I would rather use 8/256 M2 than a 16/512 Intel i3 and even i5.

 

[leman]

Yep I agree! If you want a 1080p display with less colors and nits, less ideal trackpad and sometimes less ports? Feel free! But many people on here think it’s ONLY RAM and SSD that makes up a computer.

I would rather use 8/256 M2 than a 16/512 Intel i3 and even i5.

Pretty much. I have to say that I’m a bit surprised that @ian87w (whom I respect a lot even though we might occasionally disagree) would maintain this kind of argument. These budget laptops use dime for dozen cheap, slow (often single-rank) DDR4 modules. The RAM in M2 or Dell XPS is two to three times faster for example. You can’t always substitute quality for quantity.

 

[hans1972]

64 gig does not make a lot of sense for most people, especially when you have a camera that can record in 4K, that storage space goes right down very quickly if you are shooting any video.

iCloud Photo Library solves it. My library is probably 150 Gb in size but only takes up 5Gb on the iPhone.

 

[trevpimp]

I think with the whole 8gb of RAM comes down to the needed power of most consumers. For a few years 16gb RAM upgrades have been available and most of us will like the fact that we have the extra power when we do have 16gb of RAM, but the fact that consumers are needing the minimum of 8gb of RAM as needed power proves that consumer and demand covers up why Apple still sells it in their Macs. Awesome Macs at that,

"If it didn't attract the consumer then no Apple products will sell."

 

[Abazigal]

This is like complaining that you have to pay separately for drinks at a restaurant when a McDonald’s meal comes bundled with a coke. This has always been the case with apple products. You pay more upfront, but save more in the long run from greater productivity and fewer problems overall.

 

[MayaUser]

The joker is you troll. The point was 16/512 is standard on Windows laptops at Apple's price points. Way to throw a red herring by ranting on completely different discussion point.

when people take it personally...we know who we are dealing with
Apple can go with standrrd64 gb of ram easy but cut the corners elsewhere, so this discussion is chi-dish and you are not getting the point
Whats next? telling us that second hand windows laptop for that price comes "standard" with 1Tssd and 32 gb of ram ?
Jesus christ...but keep insulting when you understand you are not right
Bottom line there will be always compromises

 

[MayaUser]

Again, point of discussion is about amount of RAM as standard.

I'm out.

no please , let us know amount of Ram of a second hand Windows laptop at MBA price...i bet you can find 32 or even 64

 

[MayaUser]

When people makes these comparisons its clear they just know math that 16 number is bigger than 8 because in tech and use cases the M2 Mba is better in 99% situations than any windows 16 Ram laptops, so in this case 16 becames just a number on paper

 

[throAU]

What do you think?

Don't buy an entry level, spec the ram you want and move on?

 

[MayaUser]

Don't buy an entry level, spec the ram you want and move on?

exactly, is not like Apple offering just one spec device
Even ipads now can be specs in different ways