Seriously, anyone who has used a computer in the last 30 years has used a file system. There's no reason not to have one.
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I switched to iPhone after years of Android hell
- Thread starter iolinux333
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Seriously, anyone who has used a computer in the last 30 years has used a file system. There's no reason not to have one.
I wouldn't call it semantics, the only reason iOS boots up and functions is because it has a file system. I've never seen an OS without one.
As long as apple lets me move files between apps I don't really care how they do it. Your insinuation that hiding the same file system that has been used for years is progress boggles my mind a bit. There is no reinvention here, just a denial of permissions given on every single other mainstream OS.
And theres the fact the you DONT HAVE TO USE IT
I know poeple who use windows without accessing the file system, ever..
Mmm, the file system is not what makes a computer go - simply it is the UI given to the user to organize said files. I don't subscribe to the theory we should simply accept a system just because its been around.
I'm sure there are other ways to do it. That's all - better ways. If I knew what they were, I wouldn't be working in Sales for a collection agency - I'd be trying to patent my ideas.
I also never said hiding the file system was progress - only that I'm not of the mind that it would solve everything if Apple just opened it all up. I think there are better ways to do it.
After all - what's the goal when people complain about this topic? They want to be able to move/save files around. So create a more robust, intelligent, cloud-based UI with which to do this. I think they can build on the "apps as file folders" system they use now and make it better.
Traditional file system UI's have been relatively the same for decades....perhaps its time that changed as the landscape of personal computers changes?
I'll say this - in all the time I've had an iPhone and iPad, I've never had to "save" a file. It's all automatically saved and updated in real time. Granted, you have to use certain apps for this - and as another poster pointed out, if I were to open the same document in two apps the edits I made in one wouldn't (necessarily) carry over to the other. But for someone like me who utilizes iWork (on my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Air and even on my PC at work occasionally), I have no problem with the way files are saved. It's all backed up to the cloud so I can delete the app and re-download it with no file loss, all my documents and files are saved as I edit and can be picked up on any device without any extra input on my part and the programs themselves are fairly robust.
Same can be said of the photos app with iCloud and photo stream. I take a pic, its saved across all my devices in the app I would open it in. No reason to go sifting through a file system to find anything - I simply open the photos app and there they are.
Additional organizational methods would be helpful as well as added "shareability" and more robust attachment options for emails. But otherwise, its really not as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Mostly, its just different from the way many are used to dealing with things and so they lash out. I don't experience any lack of productivity on my iPad versus my Dell at work not having access to the traditional file system on my iPad.
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I haven't seen this 'better way' yet. Why does the functionality have to be removed until this 'better way' is figured out?
Cloud based solutions are less reliable, require cell service, and all those other caveats. IMO both local + cloud is better. Storing everything on the cloud explicitly is an unnecessary risk, especially for business use.
If this new landscape of personal computers wants to give me unlimited data, I'm all for it.
I agree that there are better ways (especially to go along with iOS' ease of use), but in the meantime apple could throw the geeks a bone while they figure it out, because it's taking them years.
Cloud based solutions are less reliable, require cell service, and all those other caveats. IMO both local + cloud is better. Storing everything on the cloud explicitly is an unnecessary risk, especially for business use.
If this new landscape of personal computers wants to give me unlimited data, I'm all for it.
I agree that there are better ways (especially to go along with iOS' ease of use), but in the meantime apple could throw the geeks a bone while they figure it out, because it's taking them years.
I haven't seen this 'better way' yet. Why does the functionality have to be removed until this 'better way' is figured out?
Cloud based solutions are less reliable, require cell service, and all those other caveats. IMO both local + cloud is better. Storing everything on the cloud explicitly is an unnecessary risk, especially for business.
If this new landscape of personal computers wants to give me unlimited data, I'm all for it.
Wifi is everywhere......most of us who use mobile devices constantly are near or in wifi spots more and more.
And I'm not saying go ALL cloud. Simply the way iWork does it now works well. The documents are saved within the app. If the app is deleted, so are the files, but they are all saved in the cloud (backup) so no work is lost.
And I painted a picture of how it works for me above. Improvements can be made, but I don't see any drawbacks. And in all the time I had an Android device, I opened the file system less than 5 times and each time was a messy, confusing experience (like finding a picture in the "SD Card" folder when my device didn't even have an SD Card slot.....).
bah gimme a break SDCard is semantics for the nonsystem android partition (the only part nonroot users get access to)
extsdcard is the actual sdcard
it makes no sense I agree, but the functionality is there
iOS still cannot pass files between Apps (easily and without duplication + other caveats), or do attachments (even the damn jailbreak tweaks dont work for this on ios7 yet).. which is the functionality I miss.
(the only part nonroot users get access to)extsdcard is the actual sdcard
it makes no sense I agree, but the functionality is there
iOS still cannot pass files between Apps (easily and without duplication + other caveats), or do attachments (even the damn jailbreak tweaks dont work for this on ios7 yet).. which is the functionality I miss.
bah gimme a break SDCard is semantics for the nonsystem android partition
extsdcard is the actual sdcard
it makes no sense I agree, but the functionality is there
iOS still cannot pass files between Apps (easily and without duplication + other caveats), or do attachments (even the damn jailbreak tweaks dont work for this on ios7 yet).. which is the functionality I miss.
Ya - as I stated, in my use case I can easily get around any deficits in app sharing because I tend to try to use one app per function (hate redundant apps). Haven't run into the "duplicate, not updated" issue yet....
And I agree with you on the attachment piece - but still think they could do something similar to how they handle attaching multiple photos - simply open up a share sheet with allows you to pull multiple files from various apps.
The sharing problem usually arises for me when I need to download a file (pdf, video, whatever) and then open it in another app. Since most of the app viewer/editors are not also downloaders that leads to having to prep the device (or dropbox) with all necessary files before going in the field. And you cant really work on the fly if the task requires downloading any files.
The file system would just give that added flexibility and convenience (imo)
Well, I suppose a download manager for safari would too. Right now I download with Atomic Web Browser and move the file to the appropriate Apps Directory using iFile. jailbreak required
Then, usually I would email the altered file (usually signed on ipad real estate contract/disclosure) as an attachment.. iOS - you're killing me!
In stock then theres the extra upload back to dropbox step and email from dropbox. Very unsimple for Apple, but I guess this is not a common use case. Though iPads are great for brokers/agents otherwise.
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The sharing problem usually arises for me when I need to download a file (pdf, video, whatever) and then open it in another app. Since most of the app viewer/editors are not also downloaders that leads to having to prep the device (or dropbox) with all necessary files before going in the field. And you cant really work on the fly if the task requires downloading any files.
The file system would just give that added flexibility and convenience (imo)
Well, I suppose a download manager for safari would too. Right now I download with Atomic Web Browser and move the file to the appropriate Apps Directory using iFile. jailbreak required
Then, usually I would email the altered file (usually signed on ipad real estate contract/disclosure) as an attachment.. iOS - you're killing me!
In stock then theres the extra upload back to dropbox step and email from dropbox. Very unsimple for Apple, but I guess this is not a common use case. Though iPads are great for brokers/agents otherwise.
Ya - the attachments thing is killer. If they would just add options to pull multiple files from iWork and iBooks I'd be set. I can download PDFs straight from Safari into iBooks so I don't have to mess with anything else. If I'm having to mark up or edit a PDF, I'll have to pull it into a different app - but usually that's not a problem.
I really think they'll address attachments in iOS 8 - Healthbook, Quick Reply and Attachments. Pretty please.
The fact that the iPhone can't be mounted as a MTP device means a no-go for me. Windows Phone 8 and Android devices work very easily in this regard.
Ringtone is not a problem. It is simply "strange" you cannot do it.
Or.. "Download that app to watch your videos at 1080p because the stock player/stock app won't let you do that" is annoying. I am telling this even If I think iOS provides a great user experience.
True. But this example is even further away from the average consumer than a file system.
haha its something we all do here on tech forums
You want a file system because it will better fit your usage. Completely understandable. But let me quote myself from earlier:
Really to the average consumer, a file system just isn't necessary.
Prevention for the sake of prevention is bad. We can agree on that. But that is not the case here. A file system, which is a concept decades old, is suitable for certain devices. Is a modern smartphone one of those? Or is it just a device that people want a file system on so they can cling to their old ways?
Seems to me like the average user has no complaints about iOS and the lack of a file system. Also, the average user on Android never even says how great it is. My mom, who used to work at TI as a software engineer doing stuff with databases, has both a Nexus 7 (2013) and an iPad 3. You know which one she uses more? The iPad. You know what she never really thinks about? A file system.
File systems just aren't necessary. Average consumers with access to them don't say how amazing they are and average consumers without them don't complain about the lack of access. If no one is saying how great it is or how much they want it, that tells you all you need to know from the perspective of the average consumer.
I understand where you are coming from. But let me break down exactly where you are coming from: from a geeks perspective.
We can make all sorts of geek/nerd related arguments to each other all they want. But remember, these arguments don't hold any weight to the average consumer. And to the average consumer, they feel just fine using iOS. And as someone already mentioned, most complaints come from Android in relation to average consumers.
Email attachments is a limitation we can agree on. But still, neither of us are good representations of the average consumer, so really why does our non-majority opinion matter if the majority opinion isn't the same? If a majority of consumers say that having iOS work a certain way makes it easier and less cumbersome, why would Apple change that to better suit the minority? Answer: they wouldn't.
On a more personal note, I really am not too bothered by this issue anymore. I am a freelance 3D modeler/rigger. Whenever I have to send clients multiple files, they are often too big anyways. So I can just send a public link to a bunch of files on Copy or Dropbox. Then it saves space on their allotted email capacity and allows me to make easy changes before they actually download. And with the cloud storage I use, I can have over a terabyte of files I can send to people completely free. Again, this is on a more personal note that not every average consumer will run into. But it is a way to easily avoid the file system and email attachment limitations while gaining much higher capacity. So I see it as a non-issue.
Completely disagree. The way files have been handled on desktops have stayed relatively the same for SOOOOOOOOOOOO much longer than the iPhone has been around. Heck even for longer than iPods have been around. Trying to use age as an argument really falls flat.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Windows Phone 8 doesn't have an easily accessible file system either. So if that is true, I don't ever see or hear anyone complaining about it. If that isn't true, totally disregard this part of my response
I'm currently running my HTC One using the ARHD 51.0 ROM which is essentially an enhanced form of the HTC Sense stock ROM and it has been nothing short of awesome. I love using the Nova Launcher to give it the stock Android look. There's so many things that I can do on my Android that even a Jailbroken iPhone would struggle to do. It is going to take alot for me to consider switching back to the next iPhone. The only thing that I wish my phone would be better at is the 4mp camera, but it's totally not a deal breaker.
Sorry I wished that you could drag and drop media files onto an iPhone. Way nicer than having to sync through iTunes.
Windows Phone 8 and Android allow for this.
Windows Phone 8 and Android allow for this.
I'd love something better too no doubt. Not saying it's impossible but very unlikely though.
The OS, apps etc are operating on a file system. Changing the way we tend to and organize files is just emulating something different on top of a file system that's already there.
Even the word "file". How much more simplistic can you make a file system? It's based off actual paper files. The hard drive is the (C)abinet, folders are folders, files are files. So simple and only as confusing as you decide to make it.
I don't have an actual number but plenty of people using Box, DropBox, Drive without issue. That's a super basic file system. Only as messy as the user decides to make it.
Correct me if I am wrong, but Windows Phone 8 doesn't have an easily accessible file system either. So if that is true, I don't ever see or hear anyone complaining about it. If that isn't true, totally disregard this part of my response
Yes, you can access you file directories on Windows Phone, which is something needed especially those Lumia devices with SD card slots for expandable memory like the 520 and 1520 have. It just isn't as easy to use or as fluid as Android. I think this is going to change in 8.1.
Understanding a concept doesn't mean it is the end all solution on every device. Some concepts just aren't ideal for different device form factors. That is what people here keep forgetting.
I don't see what is so complicated though, since most people could just ignore the feature and be on their way with the status quo.
Except the average consumer doesn't know what to ignore and what not to ignore. They could inadvertently screw up files. Again you are falling into the same trap as everyone else: assuming your view is equal or similar to that of the average consumer.
but there has to be a way! Make me boot holding volume up home + power to enable the feature after going through 4 warning prompts with a series of chants that must be spoken
. Apple would never give root/system access so the worst you could do is screw up app data and user files anyway they can cater to both groups a bit(like OSX), I dont see why it has to be so cut and dry in favor of catering to the lowest common denominator
let iOS mature a bit!
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but there has to be a way! Make me boot holding volume up home + power to enable the feature after going through 4 warning prompts with a series of chants that must be spoken
they can cater to both groups a bit(like OSX), I dont see why it has to be so cut and dry in favor of catering to the lowest common denominator
let iOS mature a bit!
This is all just your nerdy opinion that is far from the majority. The majority are happy and completely satisfied with what they have and how it works. Look at Samsung. They throw crap on top of crap with the underlying philosophy of "well if you don't want to use it you can just ignore it." Tell me, which company has a better reputation for offering products with great user experiences? Ya, we both know the answer.
Tell that to newsstand and stocks... Finder for ios would get more use, guaranteed.