I visited the Apple Store today and tried out the new MacBook Pro keyboards...

[kasakka]

I am not a big fan of the new keyboards after daily use for a year. M1 MacBook Pro has been my daily driver.

I make tons of typos on them, mainly from hitting adjacent keys -- a problem with key spacing, material texture/feel, and tactile feedback. They feel slippery, keys next to each other too close, and I always feel like my fingers are sliding around trying to intuit the right key. I hit a lot of adjacent keys touch-typing at normal speed.

The MacBook Pro w/Retina (2012~2015) and that generation of MacBook Air (even the 11-inch) had the best keyboards imo. Still the gold standard, in terms of key spacing, travel. I still type long emails and prose on it, with the fewer amount of typos and most pleasure. I sold off my M1 MBP just last week for $3000 and am back on my 2015 Retina MacBook Pro now, even though it's in its 7th year. It's night and day better.

I'm not old-fashioned -- I type developer documentation and write business books for a living, and I have tried changing to the newest, full-time, with an open mind. Sometimes, the quality drop just says otherwise, and this is a case where the proof is in the pudding. When you make noticeably more typos on a newer keyboard, one year later, it isn't you; it's the keyboard.

I agree with OP; it is subjective only to the degree that some people can tolerate poor ergonomic design more than another, but if you compared -- literally measured -- key travel, spacing between keys, and the number of typos you make typing at your normal speed after sufficient practice, then it isn't subjective, it's measurably objectively worse.

Don't listen to reviews. Listen to your fingers.

Agree. The first thing I noticed when moving from a 2013 MBP to a 2016 model was that I started making more typos and the lower travel also meant that typing a long time was more fatigueing because it did feel like hitting the case directly.

The keyboard on my 2019 MBP is at least better than the 2016-2018 models. It has less sideways wobble than the <=2015 models but the travel is still terrible.

I have a separate Apple keyboard with the <= 2015 keys and that feels really nice to type on, saying this as someone who mainly uses a mechanical keyboard with Cherry MX Clear switches.

Apple really should not have messed with a good thing just to make their devices ever slimmer.

 

[smirking]

Atari ST super-mushy keyboards were... awesome. Back then. Especially with the audio click feedback from the good ´ol YM2149 PSG.

I can't believe I'm seeing someone reference the Atari ST sponge boards. Wow! This just made my day.

People have not experienced true mush until they've experienced the Atari ST's mush. I still have a working Atari ST and I recently swapped out the mushy domes with tactile ones that are replicas of the ones found later in Atari TT keyboards.

I've always thought these were the most garbage of keyboards because I found them so icky and spongy to type on. I was stunned to discover that the ST keyboards were actually rather quality even if the feel made me think it was cheap. It had doubleshot key caps and each sat on top of a molded plunger with stabilizing fins.

While I didn't like the original mushy feel, I think my tactile mod makes it TOO tactile. It's now as loud as typing on a Model M and has a ridiculously stiff actuation force that feels like it's around 80g.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

I disagree. Most reviewers with a history of buying MacBook Pros recognize a downward trend in their keyboards' key travel and comfort:

Not once in Mac Address' video did they criticize the MBP's keyboard and they were looking for good mechanical keyboards to use for Mac Minis and Studios.

 

[Xand&Roby]

Lets be clear, the comments against the butterfly keyboards fell into two categories.

People disliking the feel, or travel of the keyboards - yes, that's opinion and personal preference.
Keyboards prematurely failing and apple initially stating that it will not cover keyboard repairs is fact.

One cannot hide behind the term opinion for the failed and flawed design of that keyboard

I have 3 MacBooks with those keyboards, from 2015 to 2019, all used regularly every day.
Not one that has shown the problems listed, and they are used in dusty environments.
That time it happened that a little dust had gone under the keyboard I followed the Apple instructions and in a few seconds everything went back to normal, the same situation happened with the silver keyboards of the PowerBooks.
What I've detected is that people hoe on keyboards. By drapping, short-running keyboards are more easily affected by the wear problem. But who hoaxes breaks any type of keyboard and trackpad.
The fact is that Apple has deliberated a recall. The other fact is that no one realises how loud the Apple keyboards are except the first generation butterfly, but that's okay with everyone because they obviously hear journalists from the last century with the typewriter.

 

[maflynn]

Not one that has shown the problems listed,

Just because you didn't have a problem means the issue doesn't exist.

Its a known problem and flawed design, and nothing can strip away those facts. I'm sure there are folks who don't believe the butterfly keyboard is flawed/defective and nothing I say will change their minds. There are people in this world that believe the earth is flat, I don't argue with them either. I'm not saying you're either one of those people, but just pointing out, its a pointless argument.

 

[Zdigital2015]

It amuses me to see you feel the 2012-2015 Retina keyboard was the peak - if you want travel, the older Unibody keyboard was better for that.

One of the reasons I still have my Late 2011 15” MacBook Pro is how much better the keyboard is under daily use. The computer itself may be a bit more limited due to age, but for general word processing, it’s better than pretty much anything else to type on.

 

[cateye]

Step 1: User posts new thread, expressing strong, outlier opinion with a subtle negative world view. Frame view as "new versus old," with a handwave about how a feature/an object/a process/an idea was better at some point in the past compared to the present. Claim to be an anti-consumer, unwilling to purchase a product due to a single perceived fault.
Step 2: Receive immediate, over-the-top pushback from hair-trigger, over-invested audience.
Step 3: Quickly reply, re-framing argument as an objective truth—post an avalanche of links (youtube influencers, etc.) claiming they support your position. Don't actually watch videos to confirm that they're even relevant and, for the most part, stop posting at this point. There's no need for further interaction, because...
Step 4: ...Off to the races! Guaranteed 2, 3, 4, 5, even 10 pages of comments will follow as the host consumes itself.

Every single time! Topic after topic, the pattern is identical.

Given the massive variety of keyboards, down to specific qualities of key travel, clickiness, key surface shape, etc. how would it not be an immediate truth that typing styles, preferences, goals (balancing form versus functional considerations) would be immeasurably broad?

But yes, please, let's reductio ad absurdum this reality down to a single argument. That this thought process advanced beyond "that's nice, I hope you find a keyboard that works for you" is boggling.

 

[lambertjohn]

I hated my 2015 MBP keyboard. It was mushy and hard to type on. My favorite keyboard was the one on my 2010 MacBook Pro 15 with matte screen. Now that was an awesome keyboard. Now I own two Macs, a 16" M1 MBP and an M2 Air. The Air keyboard is fast and easy to type on and I really enjoy it. The MBP keyboard is stiff but useable.

 

[sunapple]

Apple totally lost their way since Macintosh Portable IMHO.

 

[Fishrrman]

I had a 2015 MBP and thought the keyboard was... well... ok.

I tried the butterfly keyboards, and disliked them from the get-go. Awful.

When I got my MBP 14" (with the revised scissors keyboard), I found it to be... actually... very nice.

(and on my desktop, I use an ancient Macally USB keyboard)

 

[Mr. Awesome]

But those who used the aluminium PowerBook and MacBook keyboards from 2003-2006 prefer those more.

Not entirely. I prefer both the new Magic Keyboards and the 2013-2015 keyboards to my old pre-unibody aluminum key one. The keys felt so grainy and loud after time.

 

[tornadowrangler]

One could say that the butterfly keyboards were "worse," since they broke easier. But key travel is just personal preference, it's not objectively better or worse. It probably has more to do with what a person is accustomed to. Someone who learned to type on the current laptop keyboards might consider the older ones "worse."

Unless you can point to some survey or customer satisfaction data that says people as a whole are liking the new keyboards less and less, people are going to argue with you seem to state something subjective as fact. Maybe you meant to imply that you were giving your personal opinion that they have gotten worse, but you seem to imply that it is universally thought so, which is just not true.

 

[smirking]

Not one that has shown the problems listed, and they are used in dusty environments.

Count me in as another fan of the butterfly keyboards. I've owned 5 of them across 3 machines. I had 5 because two of them had to be replaced. I also took a switch apart because I accidentally broke the switch in half. I had a chance to really look close and play with it.

I don't think any of the popularly believed reasons for failure had anything to do with it. My guess is that it was a quality control nightmare and the rigidity and tight tolerances needed for the butterfly mechanism made it impossible to mass produce without introducing flawed units, especially since keyboards always break in and behave differently after some use.

I did say I had to replace two of them. One of the replacements was one I used like a slob. The other one was one I was more careful with. The one I treated better actually had worse problems. Also two of the flawless ones belonged to my wife and she types like she's hangry all the time. Five keyboards and no correlation between how they were treated and which ones developed problems. That makes me suspect it's just a manufacturing problem they were never able to solve.

Despite the headaches they caused me, I still liked them. Once I adjusted to them, I really found it very comfortable to use. Developing the light touch needed to use those effectively helped me kick chronic hand pain to the curb.

 

[sre.live]

I noticed a lot of threads on Macrumors follow a similar pattern.

1. OP starts a thread claiming "things got a lot worse" or "this is BS, how can Apple do this".
2. Immediately folks give, usually, bullet-proof evidence that it's not the case.
3. OP fiercely defends his opinion, claiming it as a fact, and everyone else is wrong, hoovering up 1-2 people who sort of/kind of agree.

Keyboards, their travel, tech, feel are subjective. There is no international "keyboard feel testing certification" that can be used as a fact.

I'm one of the folks who owned 2013 and 2015 MacBook Pro and now roll with with 14inch MacBook Pro.
Latest Apple keyboards are sublime. That's my opinion. Someones thinks it's sh*t. I'm perfectly happy with that.

We live in the coolest computer era ever. Let's enjoy it.

 

[smirking]

I'm fascinated that so many people seem to have ONE keyboard they feel is just right for them and don't want to deviate from it.

Is there anyone here who likes a whole range of keyboards?

 

[tstafford]

I'm fascinated that so many people seem to have ONE keyboard they feel is just right for them and don't want to deviate from it.

Is there anyone here who likes a whole range of keyboards?

I like several different ones. Enjoy my membrane MX Keys, currently liking my Keychron, have no issue with my MBP14 and kind of don't love the one on my M2 MBA (which to me feels different than the MBP14). And I want to try another mechanical at some point, just not quite yet!

 

[maflynn]

I'm fascinated that so many people seem to have ONE keyboard they feel is just right for them and don't want to deviate from it.

This thread is a testament of how strongly people feel about their keyboards, but what we all should remember, is what feels good for one, may not for another. This is by its very nature a very personal preference.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I think you're in the minority with this opinion. Most reviewers put the MacBook Pro keyboard as the best or near the best laptop keyboard out there. Of course everything can be subjective so what other people like might not be what you like.

While I do have sympathy for those that don’t find these keyboards suitable, I AM glad I’m in the group that can say, “I like these keyboards”. Because there’s not likely going to be any new keyboards with Apple logo’s on them that are made too much different from these.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

People disliking the feel, or travel of the keyboards - yes, that's opinion and personal preference.

Oh, don’t forget the noise. Objectively, there was no way to type quietly on those keyboards.

 

[maflynn]

Objectively, there was no way to type quietly on those keyboards

Its funny you mentioned that. I use my Razer laptop frequently when I'm in my recliner watching tv. Wifey needed to use it, and so I gave it to her. I was watching TV but man alive, that tikey-tack of that keyboard drove me insane. I couldn't believe how annoying that is. Yet when I use it, I don't even notice.

My wife is a saint, she never once complained as I type away (she's a saint for marrying me and putting up with all of my short comings)

 

[eicca]

I think 100% everyone will agree that the M1/M2 keyboards are better than the Butterfly before it.

But those who used the unibody keyboards from 2008-2015 will realise they were even better.

But those who used the aluminium PowerBook and MacBook keyboards from 2003-2006 prefer those more.

Personally, my favourite has to be the G3 iBook and Pismo Powerbook keyboards.

But don't expect most people to know what quality is, these days.

I personally like the current gen the best. Butterfly sucked. But the unibody keyboards feel super mushy to me in comparison to the latest.

 

[Sowelu]

Did Apple change the keyboard in the 2023 MacBook Pros from the 2021 models?

To each their own, of course, but I personally find the 2021+ MacBook keyboards to be far better than any previous mobile Mac keyboards since the introduction of the unibody line. I think too much emphasis is put on key travel. IMHO, somewhat mushy and deep key travel (of yore) doesn't equate to a better typing experience.

I prefer a bit less travel and a more springy bounce and tight feedback, and that is exactly what you get on the latest MacBook Pros and Airs (my M2 Air has the best keyboard of any laptop I've owned in the past 10+ years, including ThinkPads).

Speaking of ThinkPads, their keyboards used to be good back in the day, but not so much in current years. Not due to many models have less travel as most will claim, but because they often lack springy, bounce-y feedback and just sort of bottom out. And for the remaining models that still have deeper travel, I find that it takes more effort to type on them and cause more fatigue.

For me it's about balance, and the latest MacBook keyboards have just the right amount of travel and satisfying springy, tight and immediate feedback that beats most rivals (that I've tried). Not a great and polarizing assessment for YouTube clickbait content these days, when context and nuance comes second to hyperbole.

Lastely, It's not all great for Apple in this area as the keyboards on my MacBook Pros and Airs are better than the latest desktop Magic Keyboards, which of course is a ridiculous fail on Apple's part (not to mention the thin keyboard font and lack of backlighting). Without the size and depth constraints of a MacBook chassis, there is no excuse for a blah typing experience on a desktop keyboard.

 

[Asbow]

I have a new 16” MBP, and a 2009 13” MBP. I prefer the 2009 keyboard to the 2021. I also have a 27” imac and that Magic Keyboard fits somewhere in the middle.

Some of The new keys already have “shiny spots” which do not clean off, and now look like they have a lot of miles on them. The ‘09 keys show no apparent wear, and feel more comfortable. While I wouldn’t say the new ones feel like concrete, they are hard plastic and perhaps not as forgiving on the fingers. While I don’t think these keys are terrible, I do believe that Apple could have done a much better job.

I’ve got an MX Keys for Mac (backlit). The key travel is better than the Magic Keyboard I’ve got with my iMac Pro (should have got the i9). I do find that I make a few mistakes when typing on it compared to the magic though.

 

[IconDRT]

I’ve always thought my IBM ThinkPad T42p from ~2002 had the best laptop keyboard. And then the 2012-2015 rMBP became my favorite laptop keyboard. I recently took the ThinkPad out of storage and the keyboard is still really good. I think it still has some of the best travel+spacing.

I was helping a family member with her 2015 rMBP recently and the keys seemed surprisingly mushy to me now (I’ve been using a butterfly keyboard since 2016). All this to say that I guess I’ve got used to using the butterfly keyboard (would still prefer physical function keys but that will be resolved when I eventually upgrade from my 2019 rMBP). I’ve been using my rMBP in clamshell mode since October and I think the Magic Keyboard is a good balance of travel and spacing. I have tried a few mechanical keyboards and while it’s cool to hear the keys clacking, I feel the travel slows me down a little bit now.

Anyhow, looks like I’m on #TeamWeirdo with the other oddballs in this thread who have got used to and now like/prefer the butterfly keyboard.

 

[turbineseaplane]

My favorite keyboard (on a Mac) was all the way back to my Powerbook G4 17" in late 2003

After that, I love the 2008+ ones

On my desktop now, I use the wired external from about 2011 I think? (A1242)

Butterfly was awful ... current ones are better than that, but really lack "feeling" to me.
When I use the current laptop keyboards I make a ton of mistakes and just don't really "love it"