al82's experience smacks of "we've spent an hour with you, we see the problem on our machines too, we can't fix it, we'll offer you a refund, go away"
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I was told by the Apple store "the first batch of MBA had heating issues"
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al82's experience smacks of "we've spent an hour with you, we see the problem on our machines too, we can't fix it, we'll offer you a refund, go away"
Unless the user has very large thighs... I don't think its even remotely possible for 30 deg C unless ambient temp is cold. too cold for one to sit in one position comfortable enough for a long time.
"if the current build of the Air can't play video, there should be a recall. Period." Thats what i was thinking, however the manager of the apple store said that they wont do anything about it because the air is built as an "administrative" laptop.
When i was deciding if i should get the pro or mb as replacement i heard another apple employee talking to a guy who was looking at the air. Th guy asked if he wanted to watch movies on plane flights, use word and use idvd for family movies is it ok for him, the apple employee said why not go for a mb its cheaper, with the air you will run into problems after a while when using idvd and watching movies. This is kind of shocking that they would recommend against it.
As for it being a flash problem, I actually bought up this forum at the apple store to show the guy at the genius bar how many others had issues with their mbas.
I said to the manager if it could be flash sites and i was fine waiting for an update (firmware) but he replied that vlc and quicktime cause it to slow down too and therefor its obvious that it is the limitations of the machine. He called apple head office before saying this is how it is , if you want anything more than surfing the net and using word,excel,powerpoint and other administrative tools then go for something else. He said to me he isn't trying to push another product onto me and said he would give me a refund if i wanted one.
As i said in an earlier post a 1.6 dual core should play a 700mg avi file just fine, i told the manager this and his reply was that it takes more than just a processor to run a movie (i assume he meant the graphics crd.)
I will be keeping an eye out and when there are improvements i will go back to the air.
When i was deciding if i should get the pro or mb as replacement i heard another apple employee talking to a guy who was looking at the air. Th guy asked if he wanted to watch movies on plane flights, use word and use idvd for family movies is it ok for him, the apple employee said why not go for a mb its cheaper, with the air you will run into problems after a while when using idvd and watching movies. This is kind of shocking that they would recommend against it.
As for it being a flash problem, I actually bought up this forum at the apple store to show the guy at the genius bar how many others had issues with their mbas.
I said to the manager if it could be flash sites and i was fine waiting for an update (firmware) but he replied that vlc and quicktime cause it to slow down too and therefor its obvious that it is the limitations of the machine. He called apple head office before saying this is how it is , if you want anything more than surfing the net and using word,excel,powerpoint and other administrative tools then go for something else. He said to me he isn't trying to push another product onto me and said he would give me a refund if i wanted one.
As i said in an earlier post a 1.6 dual core should play a 700mg avi file just fine, i told the manager this and his reply was that it takes more than just a processor to run a movie (i assume he meant the graphics crd.)
I will be keeping an eye out and when there are improvements i will go back to the air.
This whole thing has me so disgusted that I went to Apple.com and filled out one of those feedback forms. I basically read them the Riot Act.
It's all so surreal because I drag my 8-month old MBP 17" around with me all day long, run a dozen programs simultaneously, logging in via wi-fi in various cafes, and it hardly ever complains. Usually runs very cool, fans 2000 rpm, 99% battery health. Doesn't like to sleep when it's on the road so I usually power down completely when changing location, but aside from that, it's been killer. I've done SO much work on this machine, particularly super heavy editing of video, music (Logic Pro), 30,000 photos, etc. The MBP is built for this; and that's a lesson for me, because in a way, I already have what I need.
But I still crave the Air. And to think I almost bought one a few weeks ago!
I will still follow the threads daily and check the machines in the store a few times a week, but now I plan to hold off on purchase until I see a significant change. This thread has really opened my eyes.
It's all so surreal because I drag my 8-month old MBP 17" around with me all day long, run a dozen programs simultaneously, logging in via wi-fi in various cafes, and it hardly ever complains. Usually runs very cool, fans 2000 rpm, 99% battery health. Doesn't like to sleep when it's on the road so I usually power down completely when changing location, but aside from that, it's been killer. I've done SO much work on this machine, particularly super heavy editing of video, music (Logic Pro), 30,000 photos, etc. The MBP is built for this; and that's a lesson for me, because in a way, I already have what I need.
But I still crave the Air. And to think I almost bought one a few weeks ago!
I will still follow the threads daily and check the machines in the store a few times a week, but now I plan to hold off on purchase until I see a significant change. This thread has really opened my eyes.
"First, someone on this forum posted results of just that--running flash in bootcamp--recently, and I recall it was fine."
I read this and searched the web, many say they still have the problems after a while of using xp to run the same things.
TO THOSE THAT SAID THANK YOU, YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME
I really wanted the MBA to be able to do what i needed (watch divx movies, use itunes, office and surf the web) but have experienced problems.
I have a pro for now until i see what happens with the air (my brother said he will buy the pro off me in two months as he was going to get one when he came back to london anyway) i REALLY do hope they sort this amazing looking machine out as i really want one.
At the apple store i was almost begging for the manager to give me a reason to hold onto the MBA, not even replace but just say to me wait a month or so to see if there is an update, he could see that, he just said hey look this isn't going to be for you unless you plan on using programs like word and using the internet.
I will be checking back on these forums in the hope of reading the issues have been sorted out. However after being told by both apple care and the apple store manager that this isn't a problem this is how the machine is, i hope i am not waiting in vain.
The manager sent over a personal shopper assistant to me when i said i wont have a refund but a replacement, the guy seemed very knowledgeable in apple products. When i explained what had happened his response was "if you buy a ford and realize it can not do 200mph it is not a fault of the car, its just the car wasn't built for that, a ferrari was but not a ford."
I spent a total of around 9 hours in my car driving to and from the apple store in the hope of getting it to do what i wanted
I read this and searched the web, many say they still have the problems after a while of using xp to run the same things.
TO THOSE THAT SAID THANK YOU, YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME
I really wanted the MBA to be able to do what i needed (watch divx movies, use itunes, office and surf the web) but have experienced problems.
I have a pro for now until i see what happens with the air (my brother said he will buy the pro off me in two months as he was going to get one when he came back to london anyway) i REALLY do hope they sort this amazing looking machine out as i really want one.
At the apple store i was almost begging for the manager to give me a reason to hold onto the MBA, not even replace but just say to me wait a month or so to see if there is an update, he could see that, he just said hey look this isn't going to be for you unless you plan on using programs like word and using the internet.
I will be checking back on these forums in the hope of reading the issues have been sorted out. However after being told by both apple care and the apple store manager that this isn't a problem this is how the machine is, i hope i am not waiting in vain.
The manager sent over a personal shopper assistant to me when i said i wont have a refund but a replacement, the guy seemed very knowledgeable in apple products. When i explained what had happened his response was "if you buy a ford and realize it can not do 200mph it is not a fault of the car, its just the car wasn't built for that, a ferrari was but not a ford."
I spent a total of around 9 hours in my car driving to and from the apple store in the hope of getting it to do what i wanted
Well, this is interesting, because I want the Air for completely different things: mail, calendar (and other .mac synced apps), OmniGroup apps (they are the greatest), and web surfing. So an Air might actually work for me.
As long as your ok with not being able to watch movies on avi or divx or you dont spend a lot of time watching videos online then this is fine for you.
For administration documents this is just fine.
I think a lot of people just assumed that it would be able to do more than it can. I did too considering its a 1.6 dual core and my girlfriends laptop which cost £399 and has much lower specs can handle media better.
If your using it as a second computer or your not bothered about watching movies or spending time on cnn.com watching news bulletins then the air is just fine, great for presentations and word editing.
By the way Sandy Sandra make sure you try it out at the apple store before you buy one, just to be sure it can handle everything you want. Hope it works out for you
For administration documents this is just fine.
I think a lot of people just assumed that it would be able to do more than it can. I did too considering its a 1.6 dual core and my girlfriends laptop which cost £399 and has much lower specs can handle media better.
If your using it as a second computer or your not bothered about watching movies or spending time on cnn.com watching news bulletins then the air is just fine, great for presentations and word editing.
By the way Sandy Sandra make sure you try it out at the apple store before you buy one, just to be sure it can handle everything you want. Hope it works out for you
The irony of your post (to me, anyway) is that the Rev C MacBook Pro that you're praising had more Rev A issues (extreme heat, LCD buzz, noisy fans, CPU whine) than the Rev A MacBook Air appears to have.
Here's hoping that Apple's able to quickly nail out the Air's issues with some smart firmware updates.
As long as your ok with not being able to watch movies on avi or divx or you dont spend a lot of time watching videos online then this is fine for you.
For administration documents this is just fine.
I think a lot of people just assumed that it would be able to do more than it can. I did too considering its a 1.6 dual core and my girlfriends laptop which cost £399 and has much lower specs can handle media better.
If your using it as a second computer or your not bothered about watching movies or spending time on cnn.com watching news bulletins then the air is just fine, great for presentations and word editing.
By the way Sandy Sandra make sure you try it out at the apple store before you buy one, just to be sure it can handle everything you want. Hope it works out for you
I don't doubt that you have had the problems you say but I just don't agree with this "use only for administration" stuff. I've had mine for over a month and the fan will going full blast when video a long compressed video. But I've watched full length movie in H.264 compressed format without stuttering. The fan is going full blast and the case under the CPU is very warm, but it can do it.
I will say that vents are placed in such a way that if you put it on a soft surface and play videos you are asking for trouble. The vents get blocked immediately on a soft surface and make it much hotter quicker. It's not the best for playing videos but it will do it.
So, for a computer you have no personal experience on you read them the riot act? You believe everything you read on a forum?
I'm not saying people aren't having problems but perceptions are very personal. I know people who have claimed how much a computer is terrible and someone else tries the same one and loves it.
The main thing I read about on the forums is it getting hot running videos. And yes, it goes get the fan going quicker than some other Apple notebooks. But I've had one for over a month and I have never seen it stutter. Get the fan going full blast on a video, yes. "Overheat", no. I had an original MacBook Pro (Core Duo). THAT was a computer than ran like a solar inferno. The MBA is a refrigerator by comparison.
So today I tried running video on battery:
I have a ~7.5 minute .flv video of some crazy Canadian traction-kite skiers, playing in VLC maximized (cmd-3). Installed the Hardware Monitor app someone linked on page 3 here, set up the history that way. Played the video, and just hit the play and then cmd-3 after it finishes each time. After 15-20 minutes, the 'CPU A' sensor had gone from ~36C to ~53C, and it's been hovering between 50C-53C since. The fan is making no appreciable noise. If I hold the MBA up with my ear near the rear vents, I can hear an electric motor noise, not sure if that's the HD or the fan... This software wants me to buy it before it'll do fan monitoring. If it's the fan, it is running pretty slow. I can't feel a breeze coming out the back, and I have been able to when I've had the fan come on in the past (mostly editing/exporting video in iMovie).
Doing this for about 40 mins, battery went from 55% to 35%, with wireless/bluetooth off, screen at 2/3 full bright, headphones in and volume settings fairly low.
It does seem to be taking it awhile to cool off. Probably because it's not spinning the fan up. I found a tool called Fan Control, maybe I'll play with that a bit later. After about 10 minutes, CPU's down to ~44C. A little on the warm side, but considering this thing is dead quiet, not surprising.
I've had nothing but good things from my MB Air. From the sounds of it there are definately some build-quality issues with the product still, but if you get a good one, it's a great machine.
--
Alkiera
I have a ~7.5 minute .flv video of some crazy Canadian traction-kite skiers, playing in VLC maximized (cmd-3). Installed the Hardware Monitor app someone linked on page 3 here, set up the history that way. Played the video, and just hit the play and then cmd-3 after it finishes each time. After 15-20 minutes, the 'CPU A' sensor had gone from ~36C to ~53C, and it's been hovering between 50C-53C since. The fan is making no appreciable noise. If I hold the MBA up with my ear near the rear vents, I can hear an electric motor noise, not sure if that's the HD or the fan... This software wants me to buy it before it'll do fan monitoring. If it's the fan, it is running pretty slow. I can't feel a breeze coming out the back, and I have been able to when I've had the fan come on in the past (mostly editing/exporting video in iMovie).
Doing this for about 40 mins, battery went from 55% to 35%, with wireless/bluetooth off, screen at 2/3 full bright, headphones in and volume settings fairly low.
It does seem to be taking it awhile to cool off. Probably because it's not spinning the fan up. I found a tool called Fan Control, maybe I'll play with that a bit later. After about 10 minutes, CPU's down to ~44C. A little on the warm side, but considering this thing is dead quiet, not surprising.
I've had nothing but good things from my MB Air. From the sounds of it there are definately some build-quality issues with the product still, but if you get a good one, it's a great machine.
--
Alkiera
Count me as another one who hasn't noticed this. Although I have no use for flash, I do watch 720p x.264 encoded movies with VLC.
Recently on a trip, I watched one movie on the way there and one on the way back and other than the occasional (very tolerable) hiccup, both movies played fine. I will be looking to see what the processors, fans, and temp are doing in the future to see if they are the cause of the hiccups. But even if they are, I can live with them if that what it takes to make a fast laptop this small.
Recently on a trip, I watched one movie on the way there and one on the way back and other than the occasional (very tolerable) hiccup, both movies played fine. I will be looking to see what the processors, fans, and temp are doing in the future to see if they are the cause of the hiccups. But even if they are, I can live with them if that what it takes to make a fast laptop this small.
How can the apple store say this is an "Administrative" computer, but yet the keynote and apple website market it for movies. Example below from apple.com
"Wireless movie rentals.
With iTunes, you can now rent, download, and watch the latest blockbuster hits as well as classic movies on MacBook Air. So you can have one of the
worlds thinnest, lightest cinemas with you wherever you go."
"Wireless movie rentals.
With iTunes, you can now rent, download, and watch the latest blockbuster hits as well as classic movies on MacBook Air. So you can have one of the
worlds thinnest, lightest cinemas with you wherever you go."
Could you guys be talking about the temp of different parts ? CPU vs external case vs... ?
Just so I can understand this better. Does administrative in the UK translate to business in the US?
"The Air is for "business purposes only" and even tasks such as watching avi or divx files or spend much time watching videos on cnn.com or youtube will cause it to slow down because thats not what the machine was built for.
It's 2008, watching video, any video, is certainly within the expectations of business travelers.
"The Air is for "business purposes only" and even tasks such as watching avi or divx files or spend much time watching videos on cnn.com or youtube will cause it to slow down because thats not what the machine was built for.
It's 2008, watching video, any video, is certainly within the expectations of business travelers.
If I remember correctly, my enclosure sensor was in the 30 to 35 deg C last night. Will check again tonight...
Just tried again to be sure.
Played a 720p x.264 movie for 30 minutes in my 76 degree (F) house with my MBA sitting on my iCurve.
The CPU was at about 74 percent and the temperature was at 70C with the fans running @ 6200RPM. I didn't watch the entire time, but I kept checking on it and didn't notice any drop outs. And both cores were definitely running and the machine was responsive.
Played a 720p x.264 movie for 30 minutes in my 76 degree (F) house with my MBA sitting on my iCurve.
The CPU was at about 74 percent and the temperature was at 70C with the fans running @ 6200RPM. I didn't watch the entire time, but I kept checking on it and didn't notice any drop outs. And both cores were definitely running and the machine was responsive.
Agreed. My movies are ripped into iPhone compatible formats and play fine. Same thing with movies or TV episodes I've downloaded from iTunes.
Here's a screen shot in Fahrenheit:
What do you mean? 86 deg f is not hot to the touch, considering body temp is 98 deg. What do you mean 86 f deg is too cold?
Sorry, I'm not following.
If the MBA isn't capable of playing _any_ movie or flash app/movie _better_ than the iPod Touch then i'd say the MBA is a big pile of ****! There is something seriously ****ed up about this whole MBA thing. The specs are far superior to the iPod Touch and yet you can watch movies for hours on the Touch, but the MBA will struggle at best. There's definitely issues with X3100 from Intel. Software and Hardware and possibly heating issues as well. iStat Pro doesn't show you the temperature of the GPU now does it ?
There is something seriously ****ed up about this whole MBA thing. The specs are far superior to the iPod Touch and yet you can watch movies for hours on the Touch, but the MBA will struggle at best. There's definitely issues with X3100 from Intel. Software and Hardware and possibly heating issues as well. iStat Pro doesn't show you the temperature of the GPU now does it ?
Encouraging
Best info I've heard is a while. Not sure I would have the guts to do the job but maybe. Keep us informed.
I have redone the thermal paste on my air today. Lemme just say, it is AMAZING how lack of thermal paste I had. Nearly 1/2 of the chips were shining bright. I cleaned the chips and put AS5 on it. Now I'm holding at 55 deg C while opening a large number of programs so far.
Even while running parallels the fan stays a cool 2500 rpm.
Best info I've heard is a while. Not sure I would have the guts to do the job but maybe. Keep us informed.