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McScooby

macrumors 65816
Oct 15, 2005
1,275
819
The Paps of Glenn Close, Scotland.
If Steve did the first iphone wouldn't have been overpriced.

The 1.8 billion devices says you're incorrect. Basically the universe does not agree with you. Companies who put profits first don't make it to a market cap of trillions. Apple grew this way because (1) they are smart and (2) they product products people decide to buy (by in droves that is).
It's always easy to remember older times with rose tinted spectacles, but SJ was ruthless and did and said what he had to, to get that sale. Apple grew not necessarily because they were smart, it was because they point blank refused to shift their profit margins on products, something that still exists to this day.
If you consider that worldwide marketshare (at least on computers) probably still hovers around the 8% mark for Apple, there's lots still to be gained.
 

Sydde

macrumors 68030
Aug 17, 2009
2,563
7,061
IOKWARDI
If he was still around, we would be up to M3 by now, the current version of macOS would have already dropped x86 versions, and next year Rosetta 2 would be off the platform.
 
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Hexley

Suspended
Jun 10, 2009
1,641
505
He's also on video saying no one wanted to watch video on the little screen of the original iPod... yet Apple released the iPod 5th generation that played video.


Times change. Demands change.
Being humble enough to change one's mind is a sign on intelligence
 
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Danfango

macrumors 65816
Jan 4, 2022
1,294
5,779
London, UK
If Steve was still around then Jony would still be around and we would have MacBook Pros with only one port and which were so thin they bent when you put them in a case. Xcode would also have a skeuomorphic interface which looked like a cross between a teletype machine and a car workshop.

Also there would be two less disabled spaces available at the giant anus ring building.
 

cosmogfd

macrumors member
Jan 12, 2022
44
53
And Jobs definitely wouldn't bother with the environment/wokeness stuff.
As a starting point I would strongly encourage you to read his biography and see his stance on things like health insurance for same sex couples when he was running NeXT, and look back at product announcements Steve presented to see his stance on environmental issues (and there's a lot more if you look elsewhere too). He publicly cared about both.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
As a starting point I would strongly encourage you to read his biography and see his stance on things like health insurance for same sex couples when he was running NeXT, and look back at product announcements Steve presented to see his stance on environmental issues (and there's a lot more if you look elsewhere too). He publicly cared about both.
Health, sure. But environment and other stuff? Meh, there would definitely be a lot less virtue signalling than the current Apple. Jobs' stance in "contributing to humanity" was by making the best products, not by doing humanitarian efforts.

Note that Jobs didn't give two bits about the working conditions at Foxconn, well at least untill it was covered by the presses.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68030
Original poster
May 2, 2021
2,635
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As a starting point I would strongly encourage you to read his biography and see his stance on things like health insurance for same sex couples when he was running NeXT, and look back at product announcements Steve presented to see his stance on environmental issues (and there's a lot more if you look elsewhere too). He publicly cared about both.
Caring about both doesn’t mean he would be fore meaningless posturing and token hires. He would not care about your sexuality or skin color, only that your talented and good for the job.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,165
25,297
Gotta be in it to win it
My issue is I see it as apple essentially heading on a head on collisions to implode unless they change course early before it becomes way too late.
History is full of Apple like companies, doing the same thing as they grow bloated and implode to the next apple.
BLockbuster
Polaroid
IBM
NOKIA

Toys R Us
Compaq
General Motors
Kodak

etc etc
88% of the Fortune 500 firms that existed in 1955 are gone. These companies have either gone bankrupt, merged, or still exist but have fallen from the top Fortune 500 companies. Most of the companies on the list in 1955 are unrecognizable, forgotten companies today
You’re about 5 years too late with the apple is doomed meme. It’s true apple could implode, but it’s also true a meteor can hit the earth and wipe out life. It’s also true Microsoft can go under. It’s true anything can happen.
 
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cosmogfd

macrumors member
Jan 12, 2022
44
53
Caring about both doesn’t mean he would be fore meaningless posturing and token hires. He would not care about your sexuality or skin color, only that your talented and good for the job.
In 2008 Apple, under Jobs' leadership, denounced prop 8 and issued a statement saying they supported marriage equality, and donated $100000 to the campaign fighting the law. I don't see any difference between that and what they do now.

The difference between now and then is that more companies are voicing their support for social issues, but the ones who were already doing it for decades like Apple and IBM haven't really changed much.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68030
Original poster
May 2, 2021
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You’re about 5 years too late with the apple is doomed meme. It’s true apple could implode, but it’s also true a meteor can hit the earth and wipe out life. It’s also true Microsoft can go under. It’s true anything can happen.
Apple have been on this course longer than 5 years.
Microsoft have improved and become more consumer friendly. But the this change could take 10 years to implement. Apple was even aware of these things in 2011, and if changes was implemented then these anti trust investigations and lawsuits would only be affecting google.

Google has faced 3 anticompetitive investigations and lost 3 of them and faced a forth one this year.
 

PlayUltimate

macrumors 65816
Jul 29, 2016
1,007
1,861
Boulder, CO
You’re about 5 years too late with the apple is doomed meme. It’s true apple could implode, but it’s also true a meteor can hit the earth and wipe out life. It’s also true Microsoft can go under. It’s true anything can happen.
5 years?!? I've been hearing that since the mid-90s.

 
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Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68030
Original poster
May 2, 2021
2,635
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In 2008 Apple, under Jobs' leadership, denounced prop 8 and issued a statement saying they supported marriage equality, and donated $100000 to the campaign fighting the law. I don't see any difference between that and what they do now.

The difference between now and then is that more companies are voicing their support for social issues, but the ones who were already doing it for decades like Apple and IBM haven't really changed much.
That’s meaningful actions with no interest in public opinion or impact on income.

And respectful.
 

Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68030
Original poster
May 2, 2021
2,635
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5 years?!? I've been hearing that since the mid-90s.

Well they actually where months from bankruptcy before Microsoft invested some capital so yes they where doomed if Steve Jobs hadn’t returned and saved the company with drastic measures.

Same with the current AMD CEO
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,165
25,297
Gotta be in it to win it
Apple have been on this course longer than 5 years.
Microsoft have improved and become more consumer friendly. But the this change could take 10 years to implement. Apple was even aware of these things in 2011, and if changes was implemented then these anti trust investigations and lawsuits would only be affecting google.

Google has faced 3 anticompetitive investigations and lost 3 of them and faced a forth one this year.
Microsoft has become more consumer friendly how? By turning Windows 10 in spyware with all of the telemetry? I disagree with the bolded. Court cases didn't work out, so the government decided to create new legislation to regulate, something, imo, doesn't need regulation.
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
Microsoft has become more consumer friendly how? By turning Windows 10 in spyware with all of the telemetry? I disagree with the bolded. Court cases didn't work out, so the government decided to create new legislation to regulate, something, imo, doesn't need regulation.
Compared to the Ballmer era, current Microsoft is better. Take macOS support. macOS support was abysmal during Ballmer. Under Satya, Microsoft is more keen to be platform agnostic, and support for macOS and iOS are leaps and bounds better than before. Add on Microsoft being "easier" in the activation stuff, current Microsoft is definitely more consumer friendly.

Agree about the telemetry though. That's unfortunate, probably a side effect on Microsoft trying to improve Cortana. At least many of them can be turned off.
 
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Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68030
Original poster
May 2, 2021
2,635
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Microsoft has become more consumer friendly how? By turning Windows 10 in spyware with all of the telemetry? I disagree with the bolded. Court cases didn't work out, so the government decided to create new legislation to regulate, something, imo, doesn't need regulation.
I’m sorry but not a single new legislation have been enacted against google. They have just fallen under good old traditional anti trust laws

The Google Shopping investigation 2009
After failed negotiations 2015 investigations started. 2017 they where fined 2.7 billion

The Google Android investigation 2010

2018 lost and payed 4.3 billion in fines
The Google AdSense investigation
2016

In 2019 they payed 1.49 billion in fines

The Google Adtech investigation

Currently investigated.
 

PlayUltimate

macrumors 65816
Jul 29, 2016
1,007
1,861
Boulder, CO
Well they actually where months from bankruptcy before Microsoft invested some capital so yes they where doomed if Steve Jobs hadn’t returned and saved the company with drastic measures.

Same with the current AMD CEO
Mostly a false narrative. This is probably the best explanation that I recall seeing. The biggest deal was Microsoft pedging to support Office for Mac for 5 years. That enabled the Mac to continue to co-exist in the business sector.
(and back then I was still a Mac-user and was following Apple)

 
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Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68030
Original poster
May 2, 2021
2,635
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Microsoft has become more consumer friendly how? By turning Windows 10 in spyware with all of the telemetry?
  • They have made their products more repairable.
  • Microsoft support right to repair
  • Xbox one is modular and easy to repair and upgrade.
  • Xbox supports home brewing
  • Windows store allow stores to be listed such as epic store with a 0% fee
  • a developer uses their own or a third-party payment system in their app, Microsoft will let them keep 100 percent of the revenue
  • Normal apps pay a 5% fee to Microsoft if they use Microsoft’s payment solution.
  • Windows lower game fees to 12%
  • Windows 11 is free
  • Microsoft will launch all their games on Pc and Xbox.

Seems very consumer friendly to me
 
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Sophisticatednut

macrumors 68030
Original poster
May 2, 2021
2,635
2,559
Scandinavia
Mostly a false narrative. This is probably the best explanation that I recall seeing. The biggest deal was Microsoft pedging to support Office for Mac for 5 years. That enabled the Mac to continue to co-exist in the business sector.
(and back then I was still a Mac-user and was following Apple)

Didn’t say such. Everyone know they where forced. It doesn’t change the fact it was well needed cash injection apple needed to survive .
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,165
25,297
Gotta be in it to win it
  • They have made their products more repairable.
Do you have some stats on what "more repairable" really means?
In the meatime according to this they are studying the issue. It's going to take years to act on it. By that time, Apple may have surpassed them. (whataboutism, I know)
  • Xbox one is modular and easy to repair and upgrade.
xbox is not carried around and used the same way as a personal computer or phone. It can afford to be boxy and easy to open.
  • Xbox supports home brewing
Don't know what this means.
  • Windows store allow stores to be listed such as epic store with a 0% fee
Bravo for windows store, maybe Epic will see their vbucks for $0.
  • a developer uses their own or a third-party payment system in their app, Microsoft will let them keep 100 percent of the revenue
It's possible that the revenue model between Microsoft and Apple may be different. Of course when one talks about attack vectors and security, Microsofts' open model is correlated to the ease of attack vectors.
Does Microsoft provide all of the services that Apple does? You may argue some devs don't want those services, however, that is a platform decision one makes when giving Apple their $99.
  • Windows lower game fees to 12%
Apple has SBS.
  • Windows 11 is free
You can have it. IOS 16 is free.
  • Microsoft will launch all their games on Pc and Xbox.
What has this got to do with anything.
Seems very consumer friendly to me
Only at the surface.
 
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PlayUltimate

macrumors 65816
Jul 29, 2016
1,007
1,861
Boulder, CO
Didn’t say such. Everyone know they where forced. It doesn’t change the fact it was well needed cash injection apple needed to survive .
But they didn't need that cash; they had over $1.2B in the bank. That is not to say that there financials were going in the right direction; but cash was not the immediate issue. Sales were the issue. MacOS had a trivial footprint in a business environment dominated by Windows. And if Office support was removed, the Mac could not exist where all documentation was conducted in Word. The 5-yr Office support allowed the Mac to pivot and bought Apple time to create Pages (rather than AppleWorks).
 
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