iPhone X I'm not getting a new iPhone until the notch is gone.

[Scream And Fly]

So I guess it’s a personal thing. There really no need to overanalyse why I care but it’s something that would bother “me”. In my head I have just dropped 1100 notes on my phone and I guess I am now debating if the timing was off and would my money better spent on the very latest which in a few months my phone will not be. Chances are the notch will be present still but I will have piece of mind knowing a large chunk of my savings is used wisely on the latest and best available.
[doublepost=1559244553][/doublepost]
It’s not about other people noticing. Why has everyone jumped to that conclusion? I thought I had made clear that the outdated appearance was “my” thing on a personal level.

I was alluding to the notch potentially being an issue, knowing myself and predicting that when the notch is replaced/removed then I personally will will be consistently reminded that my device is outdated by its presence & knowing myself this is likely to pester me

When you mentioned that the notch would be “very identifiably” an indication of a previous generation product, I think that’s why myself and others are under the impression that you’re concerned about what other people might think. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, and it’s definitely your money to do as you please. Look at it another way - Apple (and every other smartphone manufacturer) definitely wants to foster this ‘gotta have that new feature’ mentality in its customers so they’ll forever be on the yearly update cycle.

But I’ll still ask - if the notch does not bother you now, and if it’s not in any way negatively affecting the use of your phone, why would it begin to bother you once another screen design is introduced? It’s new, I get it. It’s considered the latest and greatest. Yes, I know. But why this particular device? When a newer model car of yours is introduced, do you suddenly form a disdain for your current vehicle?

I realize you spent a lot on the XS and the pride that goes with knowing that you own a device that’s currently Apple’s best is definitely part of the enjoyment of owning such a device. However also remember that you spend money on the XS to also use and enjoy its fantastic capabilities. It would be a shame for you overshadow that because you’re too concerned with what Apple may or may not do in the future. I don’t think the notch indicates any iPhone or other phone would be a inferior product regardless of what comes out in the next product cycle.

One last thought; the Samsung Galaxy Fold rapidly became a sensation and I’m positive that many people spent the $2000+ price for it so they can have what is supposed to be the most cutting-edge product. Look how well that turned out with the very big issues that device is having. I wouldn’t want to be one of those people right now.

 

[Aydy]

When you mentioned that the notch would be “very identifiably” an indication of a previous generation product, I think that’s why myself and others are under the impression that you’re concerned about what other people might think. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, and it’s definitely your money to do as you please. Look at it another way - Apple (and every other smartphone manufacturer) definitely wants to foster this ‘gotta have that new feature’ mentality in its customers so they’ll forever be on the yearly update cycle.

But I’ll still ask - if the notch does not bother you now, and if it’s not in any way negatively affecting the use of your phone, why would it begin to bother you once another screen design is introduced? It’s new, I get it. It’s considered the latest and greatest. Yes, I know. But why this particular device? When a newer model car of yours is introduced, do you suddenly form a disdain for your current vehicle?

I realize you spent a lot on the XS and the pride that goes with knowing that you own a device that’s currently Apple’s best is definitely part of the enjoyment of owning such a device. However also remember that you spend money on the XS to also use and enjoy its fantastic capabilities. It would be a shame for you overshadow that because you’re too concerned with what Apple may or may not do in the future. I don’t think the notch indicates any iPhone or other phone would be a inferior product regardless of what comes out in the next product cycle.

One last thought; the Samsung Galaxy Fold rapidly became a sensation and I’m positive that many people spent the $2000+ price for it so they can have what is supposed to be the most cutting-edge product. Look how well that turned out with the very big issues that device is having. I wouldn’t want to be one of those people right now.

Great post. Thanks.

 

[Renho]

I have an iPhone X. Had it on launch. I look at all of the evolution happening on the Android side and can see where this is headed: the era of the notch will die. Maybe in a year, maybe two, not sure. But we're close.

The notch is terrible for a number of reasons and needs to die quickly.

What about you: take the poll and vote.

Oppo just revealed their under sceeen cam tech

 

[FFR]

Oppo just revealed their under sceeen cam tech

How much is the phone?

 

[I7guy]

How much is the phone?

Not available, technology demo. Oppo and xiaomi demoed their tech the same day.

 

[FFR]

Not available, technology demo. Oppo and xiaomi demoed their tech the same day.

Didn’t they also show off a foldable display smartphone?

So basically vaporware.

 

[booksbooks]

Maybe you should consider re-stating what your actual position is then. You obviously haven’t made it clear if people keep misrepresenting you.

Your logic is, because a few people misrepresent someone’s position, that person’s position has obviously not been made clear. This is a logical fallacy and serves to support the people who commit to strawmen arguments. It’s a conclusion that doesn’t necessarily follow.

But I will restate my position. First, I do not like the notch aesthetically. But that’s not the main part of my position. The main parts to my position are as follows:

• The notch serves no purpose on its own merits. Yes, it houses the cameras and sensors but only exists because Apple was unable to incorporate the front camera and sensors in another way. The support for this is a lack of filed patents, rumours, hiring positions, and otherwise that would support them working on alternative technology. If Apple was able to have a uniform bezel with no notch, there is not question that they would do it as the notch is a detriment. This is evidenced by the iPad Pro and every other product likewise with them that doesn’t have a notch.
• There is evidence that Apple has slowed down under Tim Cook in terms of innovation. From the stagnant Mac Pro, to the failed AirPower, to recycling old designs like the iPod Touch, etc. I surmise that under different leadership such as Jobs, they would have been able to produce a uniform bezel with no notch. This is also evidenced by all of the innovation going on with notchless phones, from popup cameras to transparent ones. Apple could have gotten ahead on this with the right leadership, but they haven’t.
• The notch affects actual usability of the phone by creating deadspace in certain Apps and cover content in others.
  
  John Scully said of Steve Jobs that he was mentally living 25 years into the future. What I see at today’s Apple are people who are living too much in the present and past...

 

[I7guy]

Your logic is, because a few people misrepresent someone’s position, that person’s position has obviously not been made clear. This is a logical fallacy and serves to support the people who commit to strawmen arguments. It’s a conclusion that doesn’t necessarily follow.

But I will restate my position. First, I do not like the notch aesthetically. But that’s not the main part of my position. The main parts to my position are as follows:

• The notch serves no purpose on its own merits. Yes, it houses the cameras and sensors but only exists because Apple was unable to incorporate the front camera and sensors in another way. The support for this is a lack of filed patents, rumours, hiring positions, and otherwise that would support them working on alternative technology. If Apple was able to have a uniform bezel with no notch, there is not question that they would do it as the notch is a detriment. This is evidenced by the iPad Pro and every other product likewise with them that doesn’t have a notch.
• There is evidence that Apple has slowed down under Tim Cook in terms of innovation. From the stagnant Mac Pro, to the failed AirPower, to recycling old designs like the iPod Touch, etc. I surmise that under different leadership such as Jobs, they would have been able to produce a uniform bezel with no notch. This is also evidenced by all of the innovation going on with notchless phones, from popup cameras to transparent ones. Apple could have gotten ahead on this with the right leadership, but they haven’t.
• The notch affects actual usability of the phone by creating deadspace in certain Apps and cover content in others.
  
  John Scully said of Steve Jobs that he was mentally living 25 years into the future. What I see at today’s Apple are people who are living too much in the present and past...

My opinion against your conjectures (as follows). I do agree the notch has compromises, but so does a pop-up camera and bezels...which are moving parts that potentially, imo, jam.

The notch serves no purpose on its own merits. Yes, it houses the cameras and sensors but only exists because Apple was unable to incorporate the front camera and sensors in another way. The support for this is a lack of filed patents, rumours, hiring positions, and otherwise that would support them working on alternative technology. If Apple was able to have a uniform bezel with no notch, there is not question that they would do it as the notch is a detriment. This is evidenced by the iPad Pro and every other product likewise with them that doesn’t have a notch.

What comes to mind with this is correlation does not imply causation, which makes this an opinion.

There is evidence that Apple has slowed down under Tim Cook in terms of innovation. From the stagnant Mac Pro, to the failed AirPower, to recycling old designs like the iPod Touch, etc. I surmise that under different leadership such as Jobs, they would have been able to produce a uniform bezel with no notch. This is also evidenced by all of the innovation going on with notchless phones, from popup cameras to transparent ones. Apple could have gotten ahead on this with the right leadership, but they haven’t.

I don't agree with this as apple has created and/or invigorated several categories. You cannot point to Airpower without mentioning failed efforts under Steve Jobs and without recognizing that apple has probably cancelled, silently, many other projects under Jobs the public does not know about.
- touch id and face id, which most consider to be the gold standard of innovation in biometrics
- wearables segment notably the EKG on watch
- airpods
- homepod
- 64 bit, which caught qualcomm with it's pant's down and took 2 years to catch up

There is no evidence, the "right leadership" could have reached a different outcome than the notch in an "Apple" manner, simply because it is written on a discussion forum. The "transparent" camera isn't a commercial product yet, and it's a camera, not a complete security system, from what we know now.

 

[booksbooks]

My opinion against your conjectures (as follows). I do agree the notch has compromises, but so does a pop-up camera and bezels...which are moving parts that potentially, imo, jam.

The notch serves no purpose on its own merits. Yes, it houses the cameras and sensors but only exists because Apple was unable to incorporate the front camera and sensors in another way. The support for this is a lack of filed patents, rumours, hiring positions, and otherwise that would support them working on alternative technology. If Apple was able to have a uniform bezel with no notch, there is not question that they would do it as the notch is a detriment. This is evidenced by the iPad Pro and every other product likewise with them that doesn’t have a notch.

What comes to mind with this is correlation does not imply causation, which makes this an opinion.

There is evidence that Apple has slowed down under Tim Cook in terms of innovation. From the stagnant Mac Pro, to the failed AirPower, to recycling old designs like the iPod Touch, etc. I surmise that under different leadership such as Jobs, they would have been able to produce a uniform bezel with no notch. This is also evidenced by all of the innovation going on with notchless phones, from popup cameras to transparent ones. Apple could have gotten ahead on this with the right leadership, but they haven’t.

I don't agree with this as apple has created and/or invigorated several categories. You cannot point to Airpower without mentioning failed efforts under Steve Jobs and without recognizing that apple has probably cancelled, silently, many other projects under Jobs the public does not know about.
- touch id and face id, which most consider to be the gold standard of innovation in biometrics
- wearables segment notably the EKG on watch
- airpods
- homepod
- 64 bit, which caught qualcomm with it's pant's down and took 2 years to catch up

There is no evidence, the "right leadership" could have reached a different outcome than the notch in an "Apple" manner, simply because it is written on a discussion forum. The "transparent" camera isn't a commercial product yet, and it's a camera, not a complete security system, from what we know now.

You commit to strawmen.

• First, just because a popup camera or bezels may have compromises, it does not follow that they aren’t “better” than a notch, which is what your conjecture appears to assert. So that statement on its own is effectively meaningless. And again we get to the point of the strawman of popup cameras being an implied “bad design” or something “prone to failure”. This is false. There isn’t evidence to support it and the evidence I posted shows how resilient it is so far on stress tests. Time will tell, but so far the technology is evidenced as sound. But I’m also not the “popup” guy, and have the openness to imagine and think of different ways to solve the problem, as we’re seeing and as will be discussed below.
• Correlation to causation. This is another strawman. What you’ve done is ignored the evidence/lack of evidence and simply stated that correlation doesn’t mean causation with nothing to support your statement...
• Just because you “don’t agree” doesn’t in any fashion refute the facts. The facts are that Steve Jobs had Apple at a remarkable pace of innovation with fast product churn and refreshes along with inventions of entirely new categories of devices, from the iPod, iPhone, iPad, iMacs, etc. We have seen the slowdown, with many years passing until a new Mac Pro for instance. Many years passing for the iPod and they launch the same several year old design with no real design change. IMacs that haven’t had an effective redesign for a very long time as well. Missed shipping deadlines and holiday seasons (several times). AirPower is absolutely relevant in all this context particularly as Apple had more than enough time on it and publicly admitted that they simply couldn’t get it done. And just because Apple may have cancelled projects under Jobs does not absolve Tim Cook along with evidence of the slowdown. We have an Apple Watch which is a tiny iOS on a little screen with a subset of Users using it after 4+ years of it being on the market and other than that, there have been effectively no new innovative products out of Apple. It’s been 7+ years of riding the coattails of Steve Jobs’s product lines. In fact, Tim Cook used a throwaway Apple TV UI that Jobs tossed as a “next generation” UI for it, for instance, which itself had its own usability issues.
• There is all of the evidence in the world that with the right leadership different outcomes to the notch could have happened, as lesser companies have demonstrated significant innovation with novel ideas around a notchless phone.
• Touch ID: please post your evidence that Steve Jobs was not involved. I know the answer, but I’ll let you go and figure it out. Regardless, you pointing to a few things that are effective features does not refute the evidence that Apple’s innovation has slowed. And if you want to discuss innovation, adding Homepod in there is going to get some laughs with how ‘good’ Siri is...
• The transparent camera represents innovation that with the right people and company, could be a commercial product, or perhaps is actually on the verge of being a commercial product. And if you were more open to ideas and being creative, you’d think of different ways of solving a problem. In this case, problems for sensor placement have already been solved by placing them in the razor thin forehead bezel of a phone, leaving the camera to be on its own.

Incessant and some unfounded criticism of novel technology that doesn’t emanate from Apple ‘may’ be indicative of the type of person who not only has an inherent bias toward things not from Apple... a person who likely has never tried the very products they criticize, but also it may indicate that it is the type of person who has an inability to recognize the value and worth of non-Apple ideas and development. Or at the least, a uncreative individual willing to accept things as a follower of a corporation.

 

[I7guy]

You commit to strawmen.

• First, just because a popup camera or bezels may have compromises, it does not follow that they aren’t “better” than a notch, which is what your conjecture appears to assert. So that statement on its own is effectively meaningless. And again we get to the point of the strawman of popup cameras being an implied “bad design” or something “prone to failure”. This is false. There isn’t evidence to support it and the evidence I posted shows how resilient it is so far on stress tests. Time will tell, but so far the technology is evidenced as sound. But I’m also not the “popup” guy, and have the openness to imagine and think of different ways to solve the problem, as we’re seeing and as will be discussed below.
• Correlation to causation. This is another strawman. What you’ve done is ignored the evidence/lack of evidence and simply stated that correlation doesn’t mean causation with nothing to support your statement...
• Just because you “don’t agree” doesn’t in any fashion refute the facts. The facts are that Steve Jobs had Apple at a remarkable pace of innovation with fast product churn and refreshes along with inventions of entirely new categories of devices, from the iPod, iPhone, iPad, iMacs, etc. We have seen the slowdown, with many years passing until a new Mac Pro for instance. Many years passing for the iPod and they launch the same several year old design with no real design change. IMacs that haven’t had an effective redesign for a very long time as well. Missed shipping deadlines and holiday seasons (several times). AirPower is absolutely relevant in all this context particularly as Apple had more than enough time on it and publicly admitted that they simply couldn’t get it done. And just because Apple may have cancelled projects under Jobs does not absolve Tim Cook along with evidence of the slowdown. We have an Apple Watch which is a tiny iOS on a little screen with a subset of Users using it after 4+ years of it being on the market and other than that, there have been effectively no new innovative products out of Apple. It’s been 7+ years of riding the coattails of Steve Jobs’s product lines. In fact, Tim Cook used a throwaway Apple TV UI that Jobs tossed as a “next generation” UI for it, for instance, which itself had its own usability issues.
• There is all of the evidence in the world that with the right leadership different outcomes to the notch could have happened, as lesser companies have demonstrated significant innovation with novel ideas around a notchless phone.
• Touch ID: please post your evidence that Steve Jobs was not involved. I know the answer, but I’ll let you go and figure it out. Regardless, you pointing to a few things that are effective features does not refute the evidence that Apple’s innovation has slowed. And if you want to discuss innovation, adding Homepod in there is going to get some laughs with how ‘good’ Siri is...
• The transparent camera represents innovation that with the right people and company, could be a commercial product, or perhaps is actually on the verge of being a commercial product. And if you were more open to ideas and being creative, you’d think of different ways of solving a problem. In this case, problems for sensor placement have already been solved by placing them in the razor thin forehead bezel of a phone, leaving the camera to be on its own.

Incessant and some unfounded criticism of novel technology that doesn’t emanate from Apple ‘may’ be indicative of the type of person who not only has an inherent bias toward things not from Apple... a person who likely has never tried the very products they criticize, but also it may indicate that it is the type of person who has an inability to recognize the value and worth of non-Apple ideas and development. Or at the least, a uncreative individual willing to accept things as a follower of a corporation.

Basically more opinions on top of other opinions and conjectures. There is no factual evidence to support any of your conclusions, only conjectures about events that cannot be proven or disproven (correlation does not imply causation). This makes this response as much as a straw-man argument as what is claimed the post you responded to.

The poll in the thread is about 75 to 25 for people who would buy the "notch" again. This says either people don't care or accept it as the best of the compromises. 25% won't buy again but that says nothing about other compromises, such as moving parts.

 

[booksbooks]

Basically more opinions on top of other opinions and conjectures. There is no factual evidence to support any of your conclusions, only conjectures about events that cannot be proven or disproven (correlation does not imply causation). This makes this response as much as a straw-man argument as what is claimed the post you responded to.

The poll in the thread is about 75 to 25 for people who would buy the "notch" again. This says either people don't care or accept it as the best of the compromises. 25% won't buy again but that says nothing about other compromises, such as moving parts.

For you, it’s basically, more opinions and strawmen on top of more opinions and strawmen. You refuse to recognize and accept the evidence and illogically reject it.

 

[44267547]

For you, it’s basically, more opinions and strawmen on top of more opinions and strawmen. You refuse to recognize and accept the evidence and illogically reject it.

For you, you continually keep regurgitating the same overly exhausted/redundant arguments post_after_post after_post. Really, this thread has no more value in discussing the notch, because you can’t change anything. That’s the only thing I think you’re not willing to accept in your own thread. At some point, the continual back & forth rehashed topics will end on this non-controversial feature.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Like the notch or dislike the notch, it’s here on current iPhones. There’s no changing that right now and personally I think the benefits of the devices outweigh the negatives. Vote with your wallet or stick with an older device longer until the development catches up!

 

[Ralfi]

& the same people jump in this merry-go-round again, with the same responses. This thread is dead. Mods should lock it...

 

[Aydy]

My opinion against your conjectures (as follows). I do agree the notch has compromises, but so does a pop-up camera and bezels...which are moving parts that potentially, imo, jam.

The notch serves no purpose on its own merits. Yes, it houses the cameras and sensors but only exists because Apple was unable to incorporate the front camera and sensors in another way. The support for this is a lack of filed patents, rumours, hiring positions, and otherwise that would support them working on alternative technology. If Apple was able to have a uniform bezel with no notch, there is not question that they would do it as the notch is a detriment. This is evidenced by the iPad Pro and every other product likewise with them that doesn’t have a notch.

What comes to mind with this is correlation does not imply causation, which makes this an opinion.

There is evidence that Apple has slowed down under Tim Cook in terms of innovation. From the stagnant Mac Pro, to the failed AirPower, to recycling old designs like the iPod Touch, etc. I surmise that under different leadership such as Jobs, they would have been able to produce a uniform bezel with no notch. This is also evidenced by all of the innovation going on with notchless phones, from popup cameras to transparent ones. Apple could have gotten ahead on this with the right leadership, but they haven’t.

I don't agree with this as apple has created and/or invigorated several categories. You cannot point to Airpower without mentioning failed efforts under Steve Jobs and without recognizing that apple has probably cancelled, silently, many other projects under Jobs the public does not know about.
- touch id and face id, which most consider to be the gold standard of innovation in biometrics
- wearables segment notably the EKG on watch
- airpods
- homepod
- 64 bit, which caught qualcomm with it's pant's down and took 2 years to catch up

There is no evidence, the "right leadership" could have reached a different outcome than the notch in an "Apple" manner, simply because it is written on a discussion forum. The "transparent" camera isn't a commercial product yet, and it's a camera, not a complete security system, from what we know now.

There is nothing to support the notion that pop up cameras are a bad idea as yet. That’s not to say it’s fail safe. Things have been electronically popping out of things for years and continue to do so many years later. However, mechanisms can & do malfunction and so it’s all a bit up in the air atm. Case in point is my Blu-ray player has been a source of irritation for the past 2 years for me. The disc tray won’t open from the remote button but will open when the drive bay is lightly tapped. It’s semi malfunctioned, still operational only less convenient since we have to manually manipulate for every use

 

[booksbooks]

For you, you continually keep regurgitating the same overly exhausted/redundant arguments post_after_post after_post. Really, this thread has no more value in discussing the notch, because you can’t change anything. That’s the only thing I think you’re not willing to accept in your own thread. At some point, the continual back & forth rehashed topics will end on this non-controversial feature.

You just erected a strawman. The only reason I continue to post IS IN RESPONSE to other people continuing to regurgitate things. And also, why are you here. It’s not up to you to determine what people talk about on the Internet. Your post is without value itself.

 

[Vanilla35]

Ludicrous comparison. Name another media device that depends on reading your face, a proximity sensor, and depth perception.

You're both right. Most media consumption devices don't have a notch design, as he mentioned. Apple didn't have to put FaceID in the phone (TouchID worked fine), they just didn't have under the screen finger print scanning ready in time (as many other manufacturers did as well), and this was essentially a pivot.

With that being said, many other media consumption devices just don't have authentication or if they do, it's finger print scanning.

 

[AustinIllini]

For you, it’s basically, more opinions and strawmen on top of more opinions and strawmen. You refuse to recognize and accept the evidence and illogically reject it.

Alright, stop saying "Strawmen". You literally have no idea what it means.

 

[I7guy]

There is nothing to support the notion that pop up cameras are a bad idea as yet. That’s not to say it’s fail safe. Things have been electronically popping out of things for years and continue to do so many years later. However, mechanisms can & do malfunction and so it’s all a bit up in the air atm. Case in point is my Blu-ray player has been a source of irritation for the past 2 years for me. The disc tray won’t open from the remote button but will open when the drive bay is lightly tapped. It’s semi malfunctioned, still operational only less convenient since we have to manually manipulate for every use

OP said one thing that is an irrevocable fact. The notch causes a loss of display area. Everything else is an opinion of that loss of display area. Love the distinctive look of the notch, don't mind the loss of the display, apple could have done a better job in designing the phone etc...all opinions.

In commenting about the pop-up flash and moving bezels, my comment was these are moving parts on a smartphone...another fact. Whether these items will break or jam is my opinion and I so noted it.

What one believes is a better or worse solution to the design issue of the "best" of designs given all of the electronics, is just another opinion.

But to your point I'm not sure how enjoyable a phone would be if the pop-up flash semi-malfunctioned and had to be retracted manually.

 

[AustinIllini]

I, for one, do not believe pop-up camera is the future. I strongly believe under display camera is the correct solution to remove the notch.

 

[xxray]

I'll buy another iPhone with a notch, but my plan is to keep my XS Max until it's either broken or unbearably slow, and by then, the newest iPhone could be notchless.

 

[I7guy]

I, for one, do not believe pop-up camera is the future. I strongly believe under display camera is the correct solution to remove the notch.

If vendors had an under display solution ready, they would readily use it. The notch and moving pop-up mechanisms are compromises until an under display solution is ready and technically viable. Right now only proof-of-concepts were shown and they were just for the camera and quality was not ready for prime time.

 

[AustinIllini]

I'll buy another iPhone with a notch, but my plan is to keep my XS Max until it's either broken or unbearably slow, and by then, the newest iPhone could be notchless.

I think the XS Max is the last phone of this generation I'll buy. We'll know fairly far in advance when the next generation of iPhone (redesign) will come out.
[doublepost=1560002406][/doublepost]

If vendors had an under display solution ready, they would readily use it. The notch and moving pop-up mechanisms are compromises until an under display solution is ready and technically viable. Right now only proof-of-concepts were shown and they were just for the camera and quality was not ready for prime time.

Right, but I personally believe Apple will keep shipping notches until they can figure it out

 

[booksbooks]

Alright, stop saying "Strawmen". You literally have no idea what it means.

Another strawman.
[doublepost=1560004004][/doublepost]

OP said one thing that is an irrevocable fact. The notch causes a loss of display area. Everything else is an opinion of that loss of display area. Love the distinctive look of the notch, don't mind the loss of the display, apple could have done a better job in designing the phone etc...all opinions.

In commenting about the pop-up flash and moving bezels, my comment was these are moving parts on a smartphone...another fact. Whether these items will break or jam is my opinion and I so noted it.

What one believes is a better or worse solution to the design issue of the "best" of designs given all of the electronics, is just another opinion.

But to your point I'm not sure how enjoyable a phone would be if the pop-up flash semi-malfunctioned and had to be retracted manually.

Another strawman. Everything else is not just an opinion. And even if they were, you appear to use the concept of an opinion to try and refute things merely because they may be an opinion.

 

[Aydy]

I, for one, do not believe pop-up camera is the future. I strongly believe under display camera is the correct solution to remove the notch.

I agree. There are some apparently close to market as we speak. Xiaomi, to name one is already making strides here as are Oppo..Yeah, I believe this is the way forward. No notch, moving parts or punch holes.