iPhone X I'm not getting a new iPhone until the notch is gone.

[I7guy]

I don’t either. I do however succumb to my inner dialogue that reinforces the worries I had before purchase that the notch and that particular design of iPhone are likely coming to the end of their lifecycle. No one wants to pay £1100+ for an end generation smartphone when the new generation is round the corner..which is exactly where I find myself. My dilemma is wether to return & use the cash for next years model. I have a few devices that would tide me over till then

There is no endgame in smartphones. An updated model is always around the corner. So while an internet post is it going to allay fears buying an obsolete product my viewpoint is I’d rather be using something that works for me than something not quite as good. YMMV.

 

[Aydy]

There is no endgame in smartphones. An updated model is always around the corner. So while an internet post is it going to allay fears buying an obsolete product my viewpoint is I’d rather be using something that works for me than something not quite as good. YMMV.

I understand what you mean however if I’m correct in thinking that apple tend to refresh hardware/design less frequently than others. If say every 4 generations sees an updated hardware refresh then I can’t help but think my timing has been off in buying the max as it is now sure to be replaced with new hardware that renders the notch obsolete. I would be fine with this had I purchased last year, then at least would feel I had paid for the latest and enjoyed some time using the latest but as it stands I feel I have thrown my 1100 at a device that is only some months from being obsoleted and on a superficial level outdated. Logic is telling me to put that cash towards the upcoming notch-less design and have a device that at very least looks like current generation for however long that particular run lasts. If I see 2-3 years before that model is obsoleted then I’m fine with having spent 1100 on it. Sorry, I guess it makes little sense but it’s niggling at me.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I understand what you mean however if I’m correct in thinking that apple tend to refresh hardware/design less frequently than others. If say every 4 generations sees an updated hardware refresh then I can’t help but think my timing has been off in buying the max as it is now sure to be replaced with new hardware that renders the notch obsolete. I would be fine with this had I purchased last year, then at least would feel I had paid for the latest and enjoyed some time using the latest but as it stands I feel I have thrown my 1100 at a device that is only some months from being obsoleted and on a superficial level outdated. Logic is telling me to put that cash towards the upcoming notch-less design and have a device that at very least looks like current generation for however long that particular run lasts. If I see 2-3 years before that model is obsoleted then I’m fine with having spent 1100 on it. Sorry, I guess it makes little sense but it’s niggling at me.

So what happens if Apple doesn’t follow suit and release a new design until 2021? If you return the Max, you’ll have been using, as you suggest, outdated hardware for the next 18 months. By all means do what you feel is best, but keep in mind that any design, including the current one, is fair game for next year.

 

[ucfgrad93]

I don't mind the notch, so I'd buy an iPhone with it.

 

[booksbooks]

Well you answered your own question.

Because of all the technology that is housed in the notch.



It’s highly inaccurate for you to label the only alternative to your argument as a strawman fallacy.

In fact your posts contains confirmation bias fallacies and observation selection fallacies, as well as others but not really the time or place .

You also keep incorrectly using the straw man fallacy. It doesn’t look like you really understand how to identify it properly.

• 
  
  If this thread isn’t about the phone why do you keep talking about it and bringing it up?
  
  Once more you openly admit to the one plus having a chin and the iPhone XS does not, which is the point.
  
  I don’t really understand what you are asking?
  
  But that is a classic example of a strawman fallacy instead of refuting the compromises from a chin and curved display you want to talk about thickness of the bezels.
  
  At least you can admit the one plus 7 has chin or bezel at the bottom, I guess that’s a step.
  
  You can see for yourself its quite thick.
  
  
  
  
  And all that glare from the curved display in a dark room, you don’t consider glare a compromise?
  • 
    
    What does defeating yourself have to do with my post. Your not making much sense.
    
    This should be pretty simple to understand.
    
    A flat display with a notch instead of a chin > a curved display with a chin instead of a notch
    
    Yes a curved display has terrible glare issues and false touches, that’s the compromise.
    
    A chin takes up more bezel compared to a notch, which allows more screen on either side of the notch, where a chin does not. That is a comprise.
    
    Can’t make it any simpler.
    
    If the notch caused glare or false touches it wouldn’t drive me crazy, I just wouldn’t buy the iPhone, I wouldn’t compromise.
    
    If your saying the notch drives you crazy by just looking at it, you might have to get some help. That’s not normal.
  
  
  Sure we can talk about the thickness of the bezel if you want.
  
  Actually all the bezels on the iPhone look uniform around the entire phone and around the notch.
  
  That’s a great picture but your illustrating my point for me.
  
  The one plus with all its bezels being a different size with a fat chin is quite ugly, not very uniform and visually jarring from a symmetrical or design point of view.
  
  But it’s a cheap phone from a budget brand and currently severely overpriced. I never had high expectations from them to begin with.
  
  
  Actually a compromise would be a notch AND a chin, pixel 3xl, notched Huawei phones with a chin. Etc etc.
  

I did in the one plus thread where it belongs.
Ghost touches on third party applications, over heating and battery drain, camera popping out in people’s pocket, high pitched sound during phone calls.

If you want more details it’s all over the one plus 7 forums. Enjoy.

Here we go:

• "It’s highly inaccurate for you to label the only alternative to your argument as a strawman fallacy:" A tactic of strawmen arguments is to oversimplify and generalize, and to exaggerate. You just committed another strawman. You keep erecting arguments that I never stated and distracting from the core argument. I have not labelled every counter to the notch as a strawman fallacy.
  
• "In fact your posts contains confirmation bias fallacies and observation selection fallacies, as well as others but not really the time or place:" Prove this out and demonstrate it.
  
• Yes, as we've been through, I know what a strawman is. The essence of it is to misrepresent and distort another person's position, which you continually do.
• "If this thread isn’t about the phone why do you keep talking about it and bringing it up?" You made statements about it that I've responded to.
  
• "Once more you openly admit to the one plus having a chin and the iPhone XS does not, which is the point." This is such a perfect example of a strawman argument. No, I NEVER "openly admitted" that the One Plus has a "chin". In fact, I went out of my way to state that it is a small bezel. And showed pictures of the bezel around the entire phone compared to the iPhone XR and how the iPhone appears to have relatively thick bezels all around. I also asked that you post the measurements of the size of the bezel of the iPhone and also of the One Plus Pro 7, and you have failed to do that. The pictures also show that the bottom bezel of the One Plus 7 appears similar in thickness to the bottom bezel of the iPhone XR. The top portion of the iPhone, the notch, protrudes much farther than the bezel on the bottom of the iPhone. Given your logic that the "chin" on the One Plus 7 Pro is a compromise in what appears to be your logic of it being "bigger" than the top of the phone, and seeing as how you cannot demonstrate that the notch is less thick than the bottom bezel of the One Plus 7 (the notch is actually thicker), you must therefore hold that the notch is far too much of a compromise because of how much bigger it is than the bezel on the bottom of the iPhone. This is inescapable given your position on the One Plus 7 and is the logic you have locked yourself into, and defeats your own position in relation to the notch.
  
• "This should be pretty simple to understand. A flat display with a notch instead of a chin > a curved display with a chin instead of a notch. Yes a curved display has terrible glare issues and false touches, that’s the compromise." Another strawman. You are hyper focused on one phone, and you are now talking about something that is separate from the notch. This isn't what we're talking about. It's not relevant.
  
• "A chin takes up more bezel compared to a notch, which allows more screen on either side of the notch, where a chin does not. That is a comprise." First, how much thicker is the bottom bezel of the One Plus 7 Pro vs. the iPhone's top bezel? You actually don't know the answer, do you? And if you don't know the answer, you can't state what you've stated, because from the pictures they look similar in thickness. Second, the notch is significantly thicker than the bezel, and cuts off all that part of the screen: Many Apps also get cutoff at that point to account for the notch, making the spaces to the left and right of the notch unusable in many instances. This has also been the subject of a lawsuit against Apple, how the notch creates "deadspace" on the phone where the actual usable screen space is less than advertised.
  
• "Actually all the bezels on the iPhone look uniform around the entire phone and around the notch." This is absurd and delusional. The notch is the very aspect that makes the bezel around the phone NOT uniform by definition. Notch = an indentation or incision on an edge or surface. Uniform = remaining the same in all cases and at all times; unchanging in form or character.
  
• "The one plus with all its bezels being a different size with a fat chin is quite ugly, not very uniform and visually jarring from a symmetrical or design point of view." How is the bottom of the One Plus 7 fat? How is it visually jarring? You have failed to post measurements, and the pictures show it as a thin bezel. You have not demonstrated that it's "fat" or that it's visually jarring from a symmetrical or design point of view.
  
• "There are so many issues going on with the one plus 7." Post all of your facts and figures to support this. Unless there are facts and figures, there are no conclusions. A person could come onto an Apple forum and conclude that an Apple device is a piece of junk by looking at a few complaint threads. You have not proven anything out here. But this is also yet another distraction because this topic is not about the One Plus 7. You continue to distract and deflect away from the core of this discussion.

Waiting for your bezel measurements.

When it comes to there being a "fat" chin on the One Plus 7 Pro: REDUCTIO AD ABSURDUM.

 

[craigio85]

• Yes, as we've been through, I know what a strawman is. The essence of it is to misrepresent and distort another person's position, which you continually do.

Maybe you should consider re-stating what your actual position is then. You obviously haven’t made it clear if people keep misrepresenting you.

 

[Scream And Fly]

I just got my XS max recently and am debating returning. Not because the notch bothers me but I’m kinda thinking if they remove the notch in 2020 then my phone would be like a year old but be very identifiably outdated by the presence of the notch when 2020 models sport a full display. The notch doesn’t bother me or intrude “currently” however it will likely bother me a lot more when full display iPhones are hot. If that is only a year from now then I feel my max will be a significantly costly eyesore in a short space of time.

If the notch doesn’t bother you, then why would you care about your phone looking outdated? If you’re in a situation where you’re always wanting the latest phone gimmicks features then it seems your current dilemma would be perpetual.

 

[BritishApple]

iPhones are no longer “status symbols”. Sure in the early days, (vain) people wanted to be seen with one or seen with the latest one, but almost everyone who wants an iPhone (or smartphone) has one. They’ve also become part of daily life, the norm, a tool for daily to day tasks.

I know plenty of people happily using iPhone SE, iPhone 6s and iPhone 7. They don’t care what other people have, because what THEY have is all they need.

If you’re basing your purchasing decision on people noticing and/or caring that you’ve got an old model when the notch eventually disappears, then all I can say is that I’m “delighted” for you that that’s the most pressing issue in your life.

 

[Tsepz]

1. How does a notch make a phone a smaller form factor? This makes no sense.
2. How does a pop up camera make spying easier? If anything it makes it much harder.
3. iPhones take LONGER to open the selfie cam than the OP7 pro to raise the camera and open it. That's how slow the iPhone selfie cam is to open.

I hate answering this question as I was once anti-Notch to.

Basically the notch moves a lot of the status bar up which saves quite a bit of space for the main display to show all the main content. Samsung’s hope punch does the same thing to, creating more space for content.

Have a look at this, the Note9 has a 6.4inch but X S Max has 6.5inch display while having a Shorter body

 

[I7guy]

Here we go:

• "It’s highly inaccurate for you to label the only alternative to your argument as a strawman fallacy:" A tactic of strawmen arguments is to oversimplify and generalize, and to exaggerate. You just committed another strawman. You keep erecting arguments that I never stated and distracting from the core argument. I have not labelled every counter to the notch as a strawman fallacy.
  
• "In fact your posts contains confirmation bias fallacies and observation selection fallacies, as well as others but not really the time or place:" Prove this out and demonstrate it.
  
• Yes, as we've been through, I know what a strawman is. The essence of it is to misrepresent and distort another person's position, which you continually do.
• "If this thread isn’t about the phone why do you keep talking about it and bringing it up?" You made statements about it that I've responded to.
  
• "Once more you openly admit to the one plus having a chin and the iPhone XS does not, which is the point." This is such a perfect example of a strawman argument. No, I NEVER "openly admitted" that the One Plus has a "chin". In fact, I went out of my way to state that it is a small bezel. And showed pictures of the bezel around the entire phone compared to the iPhone XR and how the iPhone appears to have relatively thick bezels all around. I also asked that you post the measurements of the size of the bezel of the iPhone and also of the One Plus Pro 7, and you have failed to do that. The pictures also show that the bottom bezel of the One Plus 7 appears similar in thickness to the bottom bezel of the iPhone XR. The top portion of the iPhone, the notch, protrudes much farther than the bezel on the bottom of the iPhone. Given your logic that the "chin" on the One Plus 7 Pro is a compromise in what appears to be your logic of it being "bigger" than the top of the phone, and seeing as how you cannot demonstrate that the notch is less thick than the bottom bezel of the One Plus 7 (the notch is actually thicker), you must therefore hold that the notch is far too much of a compromise because of how much bigger it is than the bezel on the bottom of the iPhone. This is inescapable given your position on the One Plus 7 and is the logic you have locked yourself into, and defeats your own position in relation to the notch.
  
• "This should be pretty simple to understand. A flat display with a notch instead of a chin > a curved display with a chin instead of a notch. Yes a curved display has terrible glare issues and false touches, that’s the compromise." Another strawman. You are hyper focused on one phone, and you are now talking about something that is separate from the notch. This isn't what we're talking about. It's not relevant.
  
• "A chin takes up more bezel compared to a notch, which allows more screen on either side of the notch, where a chin does not. That is a comprise." First, how much thicker is the bottom bezel of the One Plus 7 Pro vs. the iPhone's top bezel? You actually don't know the answer, do you? And if you don't know the answer, you can't state what you've stated, because from the pictures they look similar in thickness. Second, the notch is significantly thicker than the bezel, and cuts off all that part of the screen: Many Apps also get cutoff at that point to account for the notch, making the spaces to the left and right of the notch unusable in many instances. This has also been the subject of a lawsuit against Apple, how the notch creates "deadspace" on the phone where the actual usable screen space is less than advertised.
  
• "Actually all the bezels on the iPhone look uniform around the entire phone and around the notch." This is absurd and delusional. The notch is the very aspect that makes the bezel around the phone NOT uniform by definition. Notch = an indentation or incision on an edge or surface. Uniform = remaining the same in all cases and at all times; unchanging in form or character.
  
• "The one plus with all its bezels being a different size with a fat chin is quite ugly, not very uniform and visually jarring from a symmetrical or design point of view." How is the bottom of the One Plus 7 fat? How is it visually jarring? You have failed to post measurements, and the pictures show it as a thin bezel. You have not demonstrated that it's "fat" or that it's visually jarring from a symmetrical or design point of view.
  
• "There are so many issues going on with the one plus 7." Post all of your facts and figures to support this. Unless there are facts and figures, there are no conclusions. A person could come onto an Apple forum and conclude that an Apple device is a piece of junk by looking at a few complaint threads. You have not proven anything out here. But this is also yet another distraction because this topic is not about the One Plus 7. You continue to distract and deflect away from the core of this discussion.

Waiting for your bezel measurements.

When it comes to there being a "fat" chin on the One Plus 7 Pro: REDUCTIO AD ABSURDUM.
...

The chin on the Max looks subjectively better than the chin on the o7. Additionally, subjectively, the compromise of the notch is the lesser of two evils than the compromise of the pop-up unit.
[doublepost=1559221892][/doublepost]

So what happens if Apple doesn’t follow suit and release a new design until 2021? If you return the Max, you’ll have been using, as you suggest, outdated hardware for the next 18 months. By all means do what you feel is best, but keep in mind that any design, including the current one, is fair game for next year.

At this point, with a couple of months away from an intro I would wait it out and not let the upgrade itch get the better of me. Whatever Apple introduces will hopefully address issues of the max and raise the bar on other items. (And hopefully has 3DT)

 

[44267547]

It kind of amazes me how this thread is now down to arguing about fractions of a millimeter of a chin on a smart phone competitor versus the notch. Really, this is indicative of being nonsensical and not a reality in the outside world, when no one cares about millimeters on a smart phone. But for some, it just proves how overwhelmingly the notch has consumed their logic. Apple is one powerful entity.

 

[Tsepz]

Have to say I am truly impressed by that OP7 Pro pop up Camera speed, but yeah, not so sure about it’s longevity, I mean I know it’s tested to work up to high amount of times, but we recently had Samsung say the same about the Fold only to have some of them fail due to debris getting in under the display.

They all test in controlled environments that don’t always take into account real world elements, which is important.

What happens if a small piece of dust gets trapped between the Pop up Camera and the frame? Could lead to a rather disastrous situation.

 

[Blaze4G]

I hate answering this question as I was once anti-Notch to.

Basically the notch moves a lot of the status bar up which saves quite a bit of space for the main display to show all the main content. Samsung’s hope punch does the same thing to, creating more space for content.

Have a look at this, the Note9 has a 6.4inch but X S Max has 6.5inch display while having a Shorter body

So what the other person needed to say is the notch makes you have a bigger screen in a smaller form factor. Not that a notch makes the phone smaller lol

 

[Tsepz]

So what the other person needed to say is the notch makes you have a bigger screen in a smaller form factor. Not that a notch makes the phone smaller lol

It’s the best way to fit more screen in a smaller form factor indeed right now.

I REALLY hated the notch, ask anyone who has seen my posts previously about it here, I could not stand it at all, then I got a Huawei Mate 20 Pro late last year which I used along side my old Galaxy Note8 and I could not believe how much smaller the Mate 20 Pro was despite its larger display.

Since then I have fully understood why the a Notch made sense, it’s meant to be a temporary solution........ although I am afraid it may be here to stay for a little while more, it seems we are still quite a while away from under Display Cameras and so on.

 

[Aydy]

If the notch doesn’t bother you, then why would you care about your phone looking outdated? If you’re in a situation where you’re always wanting the latest phone gimmicks features then it seems your current dilemma would be perpetual.

So I guess it’s a personal thing. There really no need to overanalyse why I care but it’s something that would bother “me”. In my head I have just dropped 1100 notes on my phone and I guess I am now debating if the timing was off and would my money better spent on the very latest which in a few months my phone will not be. Chances are the notch will be present still but I will have piece of mind knowing a large chunk of my savings is used wisely on the latest and best available.
[doublepost=1559244553][/doublepost]

iPhones are no longer “status symbols”. Sure in the early days, (vain) people wanted to be seen with one or seen with the latest one, but almost everyone who wants an iPhone (or smartphone) has one. They’ve also become part of daily life, the norm, a tool for daily to day tasks.

I know plenty of people happily using iPhone SE, iPhone 6s and iPhone 7. They don’t care what other people have, because what THEY have is all they need.

If you’re basing your purchasing decision on people noticing and/or caring that you’ve got an old model when the notch eventually disappears, then all I can say is that I’m “delighted” for you that that’s the most pressing issue in your life.

It’s not about other people noticing. Why has everyone jumped to that conclusion? I thought I had made clear that the outdated appearance was “my” thing on a personal level.

I was alluding to the notch potentially being an issue, knowing myself and predicting that when the notch is replaced/removed then I personally will will be consistently reminded that my device is outdated by its presence & knowing myself this is likely to pester me

 

[littlemidge]

I’m ok with the notch. It didn’t bother me at the time of the reveal, and still doesn’t bother me now, after many months of ownership.

It’ll eventually be phased out as screen/earpiece/camera technology advance to hide them behind the screen.

 

[fourthtunz]

I don’t either. I do however succumb to my inner dialogue that reinforces the worries I had before purchase that the notch and that particular design of iPhone are likely coming to the end of their lifecycle. No one wants to pay £1100+ for an end generation smartphone when the new generation is round the corner..which is exactly where I find myself. My dilemma is wether to return & use the cash for next years model. I have a few devices that would tide me over till then

I bet would be you would kick yourself in the A@@ when you trade in your XS Iphone for the new phone,
use said phone and the newness wears off and it becomes just a phone and you remember how much money
you lost in the switch.

 

[BritishApple]

So I guess it’s a personal thing. There really no need to overanalyse why I care but it’s something that would bother “me”. In my head I have just dropped 1100 notes on my phone and I guess I am now debating if the timing was off and would my money better spent on the very latest which in a few months my phone will not be. Chances are the notch will be present still but I will have piece of mind knowing a large chunk of my savings is used wisely on the latest and best available.
[doublepost=1559244553][/doublepost]
It’s not about other people noticing. Why has everyone jumped to that conclusion? I thought I had made clear that the outdated appearance was “my” thing on a personal level.

I was alluding to the notch potentially being an issue, knowing myself and predicting that when the notch is replaced/removed then I personally will will be consistently reminded that my device is outdated by its presence & knowing myself this is likely to pester me

It wasn’t a conclusion. Someone posted the exact thing, hence my response.

 

[Jimmy James]

I have an iPhone X. Had it on launch. I look at all of the evolution happening on the Android side and can see where this is headed: the era of the notch will die. Maybe in a year, maybe two, not sure. But we're close.

The notch is terrible for a number of reasons and needs to die quickly.

What about you: take the poll and vote.

I’m not getting a new iPhone unless the notch stays.

I’ve looked at the evolution in the marketplace and see where this is headed; the notch will stay.

The notch is wonderful for a number of reasons and needs to stay.

 

[Aydy]

I’m not getting a new iPhone unless the notch stays.

I’ve looked at the evolution in the marketplace and see where this is headed; the notch will stay.

The notch is wonderful for a number of reasons and needs to stay.

And you will be 1st in the queue when apple release the full display iPhone

 

[booksbooks]

I’m not getting a new iPhone unless the notch stays.

I’ve looked at the evolution in the marketplace and see where this is headed; the notch will stay.

The notch is wonderful for a number of reasons and needs to stay.

Why.

 

[Ralfi]

Why.

What does it matter.

All you’ll do is repeat yourself for the sake of bumping this thread...again...

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

So I guess it’s a personal thing. There really no need to overanalyse why I care but it’s something that would bother “me”. In my head I have just dropped 1100 notes on my phone and I guess I am now debating if the timing was off and would my money better spent on the very latest which in a few months my phone will not be. Chances are the notch will be present still but I will have piece of mind knowing a large chunk of my savings is used wisely on the latest and best available.
[doublepost=1559244553][/doublepost]
It’s not about other people noticing. Why has everyone jumped to that conclusion? I thought I had made clear that the outdated appearance was “my” thing on a personal level.

I was alluding to the notch potentially being an issue, knowing myself and predicting that when the notch is replaced/removed then I personally will will be consistently reminded that my device is outdated by its presence & knowing myself this is likely to pester me

This is why I would never pay £1100 for a phone and don’t care whether it looks current or not. I bought an 8+ and given most people are still using older iPhones, it doesn’t make a blind buy of difference to anybody else what I am using. People don’t even notice others phones these days I find. I wouldn’t want the type of pressure you’ve put on yourself by desiring the latest and greatest when I can get the same experience from an older and cheaper handset.

 

[44267547]

Why has everyone jumped to that conclusion? I thought I had made clear that the outdated appearance was “my” thing on a personal level.

Because you posted this below, and even if your intentions were different, you weren’t quite clear either:

I’m kinda thinking if they remove the notch in 2020 then my phone would be like a year old but be very identifiably outdated by the presence of the notch when 2020 models sport a full display.

 

[Aydy]

This is why I would never pay £1100 for a phone and don’t care whether it looks current or not. I bought an 8+ and given most people are still using older iPhones, it doesn’t make a blind buy of difference to anybody else what I am using. People don’t even notice others phones these days I find. I wouldn’t want the type of pressure you’ve put on yourself by desiring the latest and greatest when I can get the same experience from an older and cheaper handset.

It’s really not that deep. There is no pressure. I only questioned wether right now was the right time to be paying for top of the range when top of range is due to be replaced (September) given the successor is likely to price similarly.
[doublepost=1559312371][/doublepost]

Because you posted this below, and even if your intentions were different, you weren’t quite clear either:

I see your point. I wasn’t clear.