iMac 2020, 5700XT - graphical glitch?

[dspdoc]

Honestly, do y'all think Apple will fix this issue? Or will they just say F the people who bought the highest spec gpu since the fewest amount of people will most likely purchase it? I'm starting to believe the latter...

I absolutely hate saying this, but nothing Apple does surprises me anymore. I’ve given up even trying to guess where their heads are. They certainly don’t seem to give a s*** or have any sense of urgency to make things right. They are drowning in piles of money. One would think that with the resources available to them that they could have a fix in no less than a week. They seem to have lost their way in certain areas and are blossoming and thriving in others. Unfortunately us ‘classic’ computer lovers seem to be getting left in the dust by the ‘what’s a computer’ crowd and their iPads. I am old I guess...? ?‍♂️

 

[shywizard]

If it's a software issue, they will fix.
But if it's hardware issue, silence is all we'll hear.

 

[CE3]

MacRumors should write an article about this in the news section at some point...

 

[dspdoc]

MacRumors should write an article about this in the news section at some point...

I agree. Not sure why they don’t. Does it not meet their criteria as ‘serious’ or ‘widespread’ enough?

 

[ADGrant]

It is not a limitation. It is by design.

If you wish to, at some point in the near or distant future, seriously upgrade a machine that you purchase today, iMac is not a good choice for you. It never has been. That is the allure of the machine also: it is literally just a screen on your desk. Minimal. Lovely. If you want upgradability and hardware choices, and you have the time to tinker with such things, then please do not choose an iMac. Choose any PC or choose a Mac Pro.

For those of us who did choose this iMac, knowing its design-driven constraints and being 100% okay with them, it is all the more frustrating that the system -- a very finite amount of known components -- does not work as advertised. Personally, I just wanted a fast screen on my desk that just works.

Yes, it's a design limitation. I would have preferred a Mac Pro to be honest but two things held me back, I don't really have the space and I don't want to spend over $10,000 on a computer.

Upgradability isn't even the issue, its repairability and cleanability. How do you clean the dust out of a machine you can't even open? Even MacBooks allow you to do that.

 

[ADGrant]

Ditto.

Ok, so you must therefore be aware that most (perhaps all) software ships with known defects.

Given the widespread and well known existing issues with the AMD Navi drivers it seems unlikely to me that Apple did not know about at least some of the issues (the corner issue in particular). If they did, who would you say is responsible, the Project Manager or the development teams?

 

[kkh]

Yes, it's a design limitation. I would have preferred a Mac Pro to be honest but two things held me back, I don't really have the space and I don't want to spend over $10,000 on a computer.

Upgradability isn't even the issue, its repairability and cleanability. How do you clean the dust out of a machine you can't even open? Even MacBooks allow you to do that.

I considered a Mac Pro (and an iMac Pro) before choosing this one. Opted for this just because it should be plenty powerful for me. And I try to spend less in times like these. I was still expecting a quality product even through I did not spend ~20-55k on it (or whatever the maxed out Pro machines go for).

The last time I had dust issues was actually with my way old Mac Pro tower (the first Intel one). I still have an iMac from 7 years ago that runs without issues. I mean I'm sure it is full of dust but I guess it just does not run that hot to begin with. Never really noticed it slowing down either. But that is relative.

 

[kkh]

Ok, so you must therefore be aware that most (perhaps all) software ships with known defects.

Given the widespread and well known existing issues with the AMD Navi drivers it seems unlikely to me that Apple did not know about at least some of the issues (the corner issue in particular). If they did, who would you say is responsible, the Project Manager or the development teams?

All software ships with known issues, yes. And plenty of unknown ones. And I have felt the customer wrath first hand many times. And I have also experienced it from the "****! How do we address this officially!?" marketing pov.

At least when building SaaS products and coding iOS or tvOS apps (my direct recent areas of expertise), you obviously tend to deal with the bugs that impact all or most users before tending to the edge cases. This is where it gets interesting: does it impact most of "us"? Well, how do you define "us"? All the people who bought the new iMac or just those who bought it with the Pro 5700 XT? Apple has the numbers and they have and will be making decisions based on those numbers, obviously.

While AMD has traditionally been terrible at writing reliable drivers... Ok. Stop. Honestly, I do not have enough information here. If Apple noticed these issues early on, maybe they contacted AMD, maybe they asked AMD about the fixability of this stuff, and maybe AMD said it is a simple fix? Who knows. Maybe that drove the decisions here? Maybe this has nothing to do with AMD?

But, we do not know 100% if this is software or hardware. The corner issue in particular smells of software. But, what if the card has an overall issue dealing with the 30bit colorspace or there is something that causes alpha to be rendered wrong? Both glitches seemingly have to do with alpha and the way the interface is layered. Including the mouse pointer, window drop shadows, etc.

Who is responsible? Apple is responsible. That is all I need to know or all that matters to me. I bought my computer from Apple. I do not know how their teams work. I have one friend who worked at Apple many moons ago. I would have outdated information on how it all works, how quality control and bug tracking works, how they structure their sprints and how they coordinate issuing fixes in general.

 

[jobinhosyntax]

Still amazed 23 people/voted they don't have any glitching with the 5700XT

My i7 5700XT arrived today and I've not seen the glitch once in around 6 hours of solid use.

However, after restarting the computer it's stuck on the load bar after the password, looks like 5 hours of installation may be wasted - not a great start.

 

[kkh]

Curiously, I have experienced more white line glitches today (in a single day) than in the past 3 days combined. The daily usage has been about the same since I got the machine. I hope it is not getting worse because we all know what that means.

 

[dspdoc]

Curiously, I have experienced more white line glitches today (in a single day) than in the past 3 days combined. The daily usage has been about the same since I got the machine. I hope it is not getting worse because we all know what that means.

Yikes! Then this may not be as simple a fix as some have thought. Obviously that’s the case given the length of time we are into this already. Now would be great time for Apple to acknowledge these issues and not leave people in the dark.

 

[Schnauzer World]

No refurbished iMac's at all @ Apple, perhaps they aren't releasing them until the problem is fixed?

 

[PBG4 Dude]

Curiously, I have experienced more white line glitches today (in a single day) than in the past 3 days combined. The daily usage has been about the same since I got the machine. I hope it is not getting worse because we all know what that means.

This happened to me the other day. Seemed like the white lines were showing up by the minute. Today I didn’t spot a single one in 6 hours of use.

 

[kkh]

This happened to me the other day. Seemed like the white lines were showing up by the minute. Today I didn’t spot a single one in 6 hours of use.

Curious to see what happens over time. Thanks for mentioning your experience.

 

[anthony13]

The white lines remain very sporadic for me. I really only notice them once or twice a day. I've noticed the window corner glitch on the top left and lower right corner of windows a handful of times total.

 

[ADGrant]

All software ships with known issues, yes. And plenty of unknown ones. And I have felt the customer wrath first hand many times. And I have also experienced it from the "****! How do we address this officially!?" marketing pov.

At least when building SaaS products and coding iOS or tvOS apps (my direct recent areas of expertise), you obviously tend to deal with the bugs that impact all or most users before tending to the edge cases. This is where it gets interesting: does it impact most of "us"? Well, how do you define "us"? All the people who bought the new iMac or just those who bought it with the Pro 5700 XT? Apple has the numbers and they have and will be making decisions based on those numbers, obviously.

While AMD has traditionally been terrible at writing reliable drivers... Ok. Stop. Honestly, I do not have enough information here. If Apple noticed these issues early on, maybe they contacted AMD, maybe they asked AMD about the fixability of this stuff, and maybe AMD said it is a simple fix? Who knows. Maybe that drove the decisions here? Maybe this has nothing to do with AMD?

But, we do not know 100% if this is software or hardware. The corner issue in particular smells of software. But, what if the card has an overall issue dealing with the 30bit colorspace or there is something that causes alpha to be rendered wrong? Both glitches seemingly have to do with alpha and the way the interface is layered. Including the mouse pointer, window drop shadows, etc.

Who is responsible? Apple is responsible. That is all I need to know or all that matters to me. I bought my computer from Apple. I do not know how their teams work. I have one friend who worked at Apple many moons ago. I would have outdated information on how it all works, how quality control and bug tracking works, how they structure their sprints and how they coordinate issuing fixes in general.

I agree that we do not know for sure if the white lines are hardware or software and that Apple is fully responsible. I do know though that there had been complaints about the 5700XT long before the iMac 2020 was launched. I found a reddit thread from well over a year ago titled "RX 5700 XT graphical glitches. Is is the hardware or the driver?" https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cex06f
Probably a different problem entirely and on Windows rather than MacOS but this GPU architecture clearly has had a bumpy start. Hardware or software, my suspicion is that this problem affects all Navi GPUs. People on this thread have reported problems with the 5700XT card in the Mac Pro and the 5600M in the 16" MacBook Pro (which is admittedly the same GPU as the 5700XT just in mobile form). There have also been reports of problems with the 5700 in the iMac.

Assuming Apple did know (I find it hard to believe they didn't), I think their decision to ship anyway would have been influenced more by the lack of 2019 27" iMacs they could sell instead than the number of people affected. Given the Covid pandemic, demand for iMacs is probably much higher than it has been for a long time. They would not want to miss the opportunity to put up really good numbers for the quarter.

 

[kkh]

I agree that we do not know for sure if the white lines are hardware or software and that Apple is fully responsible. I do know though that there had been complaints about the 5700XT long before the iMac 2020 was launched. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cex06f

Yeah, when I first experienced these glitches, I read about what sounded like much more severe problems with the 5700 XT on Windows and in PC games. I assume the addition of "Pro" to Pro 5700 XT simply means they coded macOS drivers for it. I assume the hardware is very similar if not identical. At least the basic architecture.

Hardware or software, my suspicion is that this problem affects all Navi GPUs.

Possibly. I have not followed any other threads on Navi GPUs for specifics but clearly there are issues with many of them.

Assuming Apple did know (I find it hard to believe they didn't), I think their decision to ship anyway would have been influenced more by the lack of 2019 27" iMacs they could sell instead than the number of people affected. Given the Covid pandemic, demand for iMacs is probably much higher than it has been for a long time. They would not want to miss the opportunity to put up really good numbers for the quarter.

This is probably, unfortunately, the case.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

How does a "long term review" of a 2020 iMac w/ 5700XT get released by this prominent Mac Youtuber without a single mention of this issue? I say we bombard him with comments. How can he not know?

 

[torifile]

Honestly, do y'all think Apple will fix this issue? Or will they just say F the people who bought the highest spec gpu since the fewest amount of people will most likely purchase it? I'm starting to believe the latter...

Of course they’ll fix it. It’s only been about 3 weeks since we started noticing this en masse.

 

[Nermal]

How does a "long term review" of a 2020 iMac w/ 5700XT get released by this prominent Mac Youtuber without a single mention of this issue? I say we bombard him with comments. How can he not know?

'Player One' seems to be the only commenter to raise it so far. I've given them an upvote.

 

[hotpotato123]

I agree. Not sure why they don’t. Does it not meet their criteria as ‘serious’ or ‘widespread’ enough?

 

[hotpotato123]

MacRumors should write an article about this in the news section at some point...

I agree. Not sure why they don’t. Does it not meet their criteria as ‘serious’ or ‘widespread’ enough?

.
Much of the mainstream media is unwilling to bite the hand that feeds it financially.

 

[tommiart]

There maybe a macOS update after the event tonight. Hopefully it will have something to fix the glitch

 

[nkurtar]

There maybe a macOS update after the event tonight. Hopefully it will have something to fix the glitch

Is it your opinion or some info you got from somewhere?

 

[tommiart]

They usually update software to work with the new products. Like Apple Watch Series 6?