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Apple could have just updated the Mac Pro (Powermac G5 chassis). Problem --> Solved.
Ah, so you don't want an all-in-one. That's fine. Just return your iMP and wait until sometime between this Christmas and the following March to see what Apple comes up with.

Or you can just buy a cheese-grater Mac off of eBay and upgrade it yourself. I hear they're faster than anything short of the iMP, and you can even pop in an nVidia card or two.
 
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Ah, so you don't want an all-in-one. That's fine. Just return your iMP and wait until sometime between this Christmas and the following March to see what Apple comes up with.

Or you can just buy a cheese-grater Mac off of eBay and upgrade it yourself. I hear they're faster than anything short of the iMP, and you can even pop in an nVidia card or two.
Or apple could have done this way back in 2013.

Also, I didn't buy an iMac Pro. The iMac Pro is just the pinnacle of the rot of the mac platform.
 
Or apple could have done this way back in 2013.

Also, I didn't buy an iMac Pro. The iMac Pro is just the pinnacle of the rot of the mac platform.

Sounds like you could use a hug, a big ol' hug.

I agree that Apple did a very poor job with the trash can Mac Pro and they definitely went way too long without updating their pro line of Macs, but hopefully things are getting back on track. In my opinion, an AIO of this caliber has its place and is perfect for certain groups of people. And I think Apple did a very good job with the iMac Pro. However, I fully understand why a pro-level AIO design is not a good choice for many other people. I get it, I really do.

It is my hope that Apple hits a home run with the upcoming Mac Pro and gives you what I believe you're looking for, which I suspect is ease of upgrading, customization, and a fair market price. And yes, I agree with you on the fact that it should not have taken this long. Hopefully Apple will learn from its mistakes.

In the meantime, how about that big ol' hug...or perhaps a cold beverage of your choice to cheer you up a little? (Trying to extend an olive branch here...)
 
...
It is my hope that Apple hits a home run with the upcoming Mac Pro and gives you what I believe you're looking for, which I suspect is ease of upgrading, customization, and a fair market price. And yes, I agree with you on the fact that it should not have taken this long. Hopefully Apple will learn from its mistakes....

While nobody yet knows, I question whether the "modular" Mac Pro will be anything like an improved "cheese grater" with PCIe slots. The ATX form factor is over 20 years old, and some of the issues with continuing that legacy architecture are mentioned on this engineering forum. I suspect this is how Apple engineers also view it, especially given Apple's manufacturing and engineering prowess: https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=163257&curpostid=164090

Regarding price and scalability, the iMac Pro already goes up to 18 cores and $13k. This implies the modular Mac Pro need not overlap deeply to the bottom of the iMP product range, yet must extend well above it. This could imply a multi-socket design, which would be expensive. However Intel already has 32-core Xeons, so Apple might gamble on a single-socket design, but even this would be expensive due to chip cost: https://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-e5-2699-v5-32-core-geekbench-score-leaked/

The mMP GPU will likely be single card or some kind of scalable SLI-type system, since Craig Federighi negatively described the nMP dual-card design. But that doesn't absolutely mean PCIe where you can plug in your familiar, favorite GPU card. Even the latest PCIe spec is limited 150 watts from the bus, so I can't see Apple using a "bondo and rattle-can paint" method like ATX card power cables on their marquee computer. Even though it's inside the case it would be distasteful. Remember this is the same company that put the signatures of the engineering team inside the original Mac case: http://www.twiggymac.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/SignaturesRED.png

When the 2013 Mac Pro was introduced it spanned from 4 cores (the same as the highest-end iMac below it) up to 12 cores. Today, the machine directly below the modular Mac Pro is the iMac Pro which spans from 8-18 cores. Thus I don't see Apple making a 4 core mMP, and maybe not an 8 core. The iMac Pro already has four Thunderbolt 3 ports supported by two Thunderbolt 3 controllers, plus four USB-A ports and 10 gig ethernet. The iMac Pro already supports up to two 5k external displays.

Apple could design the mMP to scale deeply down into the iMP range but that might limit the upper scalability. Or they could design it to scale from the upper end of the iMP range to the very high workstation class. Dell already has a dual-socket Precision 7910 workstation which can be configured up to about $30,000. Apple could compete with that, but the resulting modular Mac Pro would likely be expensive.
 
Ok, so it has become much clearer now.

The OP won’t discuss anything about his computing needs when others try to offer up help or recommendations. He just wants to post statements saying the iMac Pro uses low-quality and underclocked components and then deny any responses to the things he says. He also has several other threads on the iMac Pro saying something must be wrong because it takes too long to boot up, he has a poor quality display, and then after that he is hearing static from the sound coming from his iMac Pro. Is it buyer’s remorse? Is he just trying to stir the pot? Or is it neither of those? I’m not sure because he won’t partake in any actual discussion on the iMac Pro.

Hey, people are free to post their thoughts and opinions (within the confines of the rules). So I’m posting my opinion in relation to the claims being made by the two members above. The iMac Pro does not use low quality or substandard parts. The iMac Pro is a good choice for power users and working pros that don’t mind an AIO design and need a powerful Mac right now. It is the fastest and most powerful computer offered by Apple and will remain so until the new Mac Pro is released. It will serve the needs of many users quite well. As for me, I’m looking forward to getting one next month and it will be a tremendous benefit to my workflow and worth every penny to me.

For those that don’t like the iMac Pro, hopefully the next Mac Pro will be a good fit for you or you can find a PC that better fits your needs.
 
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Ok, so it has become much clearer now.

Hey, people are free to post their thoughts and opinions (within the confines of the rules). So I’m posting my opinion in relation to the claims being made by the two members above. The iMac Pro does not use low quality or substandard parts. The iMac Pro is a good choice for power users and working pros that don’t mind an AIO design and need a powerful Mac right now. It is the fastest and most powerful computer offered by Apple and will remain so until the new Mac Pro is released. It will serve the needs of many users quite well. As for me, I’m looking forward to getting one next month and it will be a tremendous benefit to my workflow and worth every penny to me.

For those that don’t like the iMac Pro, hopefully the next Mac Pro will be a good fit for you or you can find a PC that better fits your needs.


The simple facts as he presents them are correct, and I don't dispute them. The iMac Pro is the best and most powerful computer apple makes, and for those who need a powerful mac, it is the best computer available.

I don't dispute this; but the fact that the iMac Pro is the best that apple delivers shows that something is fundamentally wrong. In the thread where I brought this up, many people misrepresented what I said, cried fowl, and derailed the thread with ludicrous insults.

What I see in the iMac Pro is the terrible direction apple is going with the Mac. My original assertion was that the iMac Pro is proof apple needs more competition in the PC space, and their so-called "innovations" are absurd. I probably should have mentioned that there is another group who might need this computer: those who are held hostage by being heavily invested in the Mac ecosystem, and therefore don't really have a choice. The latter group (largely due to apple's willful atrophy of the mac) are jumping ship fast. This shows who is left over.

Because I've been using macs for nearly 15 years, I can say with confidence that this has never been the case for apple's professional products.

Mr. Florida brings up valid points:
Mr. Florida said:
I really think Apple needs to take a hard look at their products and reconsider some of the hardware they are using. Apple thrives on offering quality products but shortcuts the hardware and there is no excuse for this. The mere fact that you can't even upgrade the memory now on the IMac Pro is absolutely crazy so you have to resort to the astronomical pricing for Apple memory which isn't even of great quality.

Rather than crying over what he's saying (not everything he said might have been accurate), his points aren't invalid, and should be taken seriously.

Here's hoping apple still has some sense, and brings out a proper Mac Pro, something they should, and could, have done a very long time ago.
 
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35 years ago I was a founder of a computer club. We created our own accessory hardware and software. I used towers as my case for longer than I can think of. Yes, we liked to be on the edge of specs and use the fastest at max. specs. But even on the last Windows tower I had to exchange:
- Motherboard, GPU, CPU, Watercooling system, Power Supply, Fans ...
We spent hours and hours and nights to work the system ..., but what great time we had ..., we rocked it ..., we were on the edge of technology ..., we were in ...

With that said and my experience with the 2015 MBP I made a well educated decision to go for the iMac Pro. I like that it has pro components but not on max. specs. As we know it makes the machine super quiet. I can't hear anything working next to it, while I hear my tower from 2 rooms away.
The "All In One" looks sleek and takes so much less space. With Apple Care for 3 years I am worry free for the whole system and don't have to argue with a computer dealer for each individual component for the build it myself.

Give everyone some room. Yes we have the ones who like the modular concept. Yes in my view Apple should have done more for those customers (but that is not new: I guess that's why I had an Amiga 3000 at the time instead).

But there is no reason to doom those that went for an All In One. Many here made a conscious decision and are quite happy with it. At this point I probably would have went for the AIO, even if there would be a same spec and same price modular tower. If I never try, I will never know.

Finally and I mean that sincere: Good luck to you and I hope Apple will make a product that will fit your expectation, liking and budget.
 
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Apple have always been in the second echelon with their components, partly because after a couple of years any problems would have been ironed out but mainly because of cost as they can then charge top dollar and maximise profit.
This is not a criticism, it is fact and is just the way they do business.
Certainly I can't see where they get their retail price for the iMac Pro as it seems to about $2k over priced for the spec.
 
Apple have always been in the second echelon with their components, partly because after a couple of years any problems would have been ironed out but mainly because of cost as they can then charge top dollar and maximise profit.
This is not a criticism, it is fact and is just the way they do business.
Certainly I can't see where they get their retail price for the iMac Pro as it seems to about $2k over priced for the spec.

In your opinion. lol.

The weak minded that have been jedi mind tricked into the bullet points from the Apple Haters manual seem to forget that Apple is a Dell, Google and a Microsoft all rolled into one. You're not just paying for the hardware, you're paying for the software and services too. Hardware guys never can grasp this concept. They look at the absolute hardware specs and smugly declare Apple sucks. lol. Keep hating, we know that makes your meager lives tolerable.
 
This is a fact....
thatssotrue_3749_1331166173.gif
 
In your opinion. lol.

The weak minded that have been jedi mind tricked into the bullet points from the Apple Haters manual seem to forget that Apple is a Dell, Google and a Microsoft all rolled into one. You're not just paying for the hardware, you're paying for the software and services too. Hardware guys never can grasp this concept. They look at the absolute hardware specs and smugly declare Apple sucks. lol. Keep hating, we know that makes your meager lives tolerable.

Far from being a Mac hater I have used, repaired, upgraded and depended on Macs for my business since about 1984 when we bought our first.
Prior to that I worked with the NEXT computers and before that had an Apple IIe as a kid in the 70's which is where I first learned about these wonderful frustrating things called computers.

So, in short I know what I'm talking about regarding Macs whereas you highlight your obvious Apple FanBoism and blinkered view that everything Apple is Godlike and way above criticism.
Well I hate to burst your blinkered, insular view on the World but Apple is a Corporation who's only God is money and share dividends, they are not a way of life, they are not alien beings dropped in to enrich our lives, they are a business, no more no less.
So.....if they can maximise profit by waiting a year or so and then charge top dollar for old tech they will and if you can't grasp this basic concept then you need to get a new hobby...;)
 
Far from being a Mac hater I have used, repaired, upgraded and depended on Macs for my business since about 1984 when we bought our first.
Prior to that I worked with the NEXT computers and before that had an Apple IIe as a kid in the 70's which is where I first learned about these wonderful frustrating things called computers.

So, in short I know what I'm talking about regarding Macs whereas you highlight your obvious Apple FanBoism and blinkered view that everything Apple is Godlike and way above criticism.
Well I hate to burst your blinkered, insular view on the World but Apple is a Corporation who's only God is money and share dividends, they are not a way of life, they are not alien beings dropped in to enrich our lives, they are a business, no more no less.
So.....if they can maximise profit by waiting a year or so and then charge top dollar for old tech they will and if you can't grasp this basic concept then you need to get a new hobby...;)

Yup, you've managed to hit the all the bullet points from the Apple Haters manual. Great job!

And, pssst, NEXT computers didn't exist before the first Macs.
 
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Yup, you've managed to hit the all the bullet points from the Apple Haters manual. Great job!

And, pssst, NEXT computers didn't exist before the first Macs.

Wrong.
I worked on NEXT computers in 1982 so I don't know about your maths but that is before the first compact or are you still existing in your alternative universe.
I love it that there can be so many idiots in this forum.
 
@Fried Chicken Just to let you know that having read some of this thread, you are against that Den of Wolves that was mentioned. Good luck trying to get some folks to realize what they are smelling about  isn't roses.
I have been an  user since 1984 and also a PC user since 1988. Both sides have their major issues but Microsoft has put out Windows 10 which, while having a fairly steep relearning curve, is actually working very well.  on the other hand has troubled me more and more for the last 3 years.
At this point, while I am not ready to leave  I have no intention of buying ANY of the computers they currently offer, especially at the price they are asking. My nMP will hopefully last until something decent comes out, at a decent price. If that doesn't happen, I have no fear of going back to strictly a Windows home. My iphone will still work and my monitors, mice, etc will work quite nicely with Windows 10.

This post may have gone a little off course but keep up the good fight. You are not alone.
 
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Wrong.
I worked on NEXT computers in 1982 so I don't know about your maths but that is before the first compact or are you still existing in your alternative universe.
I love it that there can be so many idiots in this forum.

There must have been some other NEXT computer company in Europe because the one Steve Jobs founded didn't come into existence until after he was fired from Apple. Founded in 1985. So which is it? Making stuff up to make yourself look good? Oh, its OK, you're still special and better than all the rest of the "Morons" that buy overpriced Apple products.
 
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There must have been some other NEXT computer company in Europe because the one Steve Jobs founded didn't come into existence until after he was fired from Apple. Founded in 1985. So which is it? Making stuff up to make yourself look good? Oh, its OK, you're still special and better than all the rest of the "Morons" that buy overpriced Apple products.

Do you really believe that the NEXT system just happened overnight, pushing a few button or waving your jedi hand, 'make it so'?.
When I was working on it we were years away from it being the final incarnation, but of course you know everything and nothing.
 
This is probably one of the most toxic threads on the iMac Pro I have read. I don't understand why people feel the need to disparage other people's business decisions. And by the way, that's exactly what the purchase of an iMac Pro is.

If the machine doesn't suit your needs, or you feel the company isn't moving in the direction you like, don't buy it. Dollar votes count, and trying to convince others that they should all behave like you is a sign of insecurity in your own choices. You don't know what the other person's business is, and what their technical needs are, therefore you cannot judge their decision to buy a machine one way or the other.

Returning objectively to the subject matter of this thread: Does the iMac Pro take design shortcuts?

The components of an iMac Pro are thus:

Intel Xeon W processors of some variant
AMD Radeon Vega 56 or 64 Frontier Edition
DDR4 @ 2666 MHz ECC RAM
Dual M.2 SSDs in RAID 0 configuration for maximum speed.
A T2 Security Co-processor for kernel validation and secure boot.
A custom-engineered thermal cooling solution for the entire machine, which has been reported to be extremely quiet.
A 5k monitor.
USB-C and USB-3.0 ports, with 10 GB ethernet

Seeing as the Xeon Ws are brand new ... and the 2195 only started selling as of last week ... I would say that there can be no argument as to the fact that there is no 'shortcut' being taken here. Perhaps an argument could be made to use the Xeon Scalable processor lines and opt for a dual-socket workstation. But that would be an entirely different machine, and may be something that Apple defines as a hallmark of the Modular Mac Pro in the future, while letting single-socket Xeon users utilize the AIO iMac Pro.

The GPU option is also relatively new. AMD does not produce a better graphics card than the Vega 64 Frontier Edition, and thus I believe that this isn't even debatable if it were a shortcut. However I could understand if someone argued there should have been an NVIDIA option, but I believe there wasn't for contract status reasons.

The RAM speeds for ECC are relatively fast, and ECC is definitely an upper-class level of RAM that has use cases in the highest power user ends of the spectrum where the machine is running active processes for days at a time. As far as the frequency goes, I couldn't find any ECC sticks offered at higher than 2666 MHz. I believe this is a top-shelf pick, and doesn't seem to have any 'shortcut' taken

The SSDs have had blazing fast speeds because of utilizing the speeds of two M.2 SSDs, which are currently the fastest on the market. Maybe you need space over speed, but this is a design choice that I believe favors all users since you can offload excess storage if needed to slower drives. Doesn't seem to be any 'shortcut' here.

The T2 Security Co-Processor offers features that Apple isn't really being competed over. I'd say this is a bonus feature if anything, and can't possibly be described as a shortcut.

The custom engineered thermal cooling solution has been reported to be extremely quiet, and extremely effective. Definitely no shortcut here, since if they wanted to take a shortcut they could've thrown in the old 2017 iMac's cooling solution. They went out of their way to make sure that this was a high quality feature.

There is also the 5k monitor. I've heard that it is the best monitor that Apple has produced, which is to be expected since it is the latest in a long line of evolving monitors. I believe that on that ground it wasn't a shortcut. Could they have done something different and offered 34 inch options for ultra-wide setups? I would've loved that, but that's an option, not a workaround. I can't be too picky here, since it's just a screen.

And then the ports ... they offered USB 3.0, something that they didn't have to if they followed the line of thinking for their MacBook Pros. Since they offered both TB3, USB-A, and the latest 10 GB ethernet ports, I can't say there was a shortcut taken here.

So since we've gone over all of the features, there are no evidence of hardware shortcuts, everything seems to be a high-quality pick for Apple, I can only conclude that NO, there are no shortcuts taken here.

Hope you enjoyed my 2c.
 
Secondly the memory being used is Hynix which isn't one of the higher end brands of memory. Why not use Crucial which is probably the best memory on the market.

This last sentence should have a question mark. Poor punctuation. Also, Crucial RAM was manufactured by the IMFT (Intel Micron Flash Technologies) which is ending this year, as announced on January 8th. (https://newsroom.intel.com/news-rel...update-nand-memory-joint-development-program/)

I worked for Apple in the past doing quality assurance control and reporting as well as helping engineer a few products. (Known as EFFA - Early Field Failure Analysis) A LARGE majority of the machines use Hynix, now SK Hynix after they absorbed Elpida of Japan, and SK Hynix is the SECOND largest supplier of RAM in the world, behind only Samsung. (https://www.statista.com/statistics...venues-of-semiconductor-companies-since-2010/) Apple keeps CRAZY records on what fails and what doesn't. I personally have a 2007 White MacBook that has Hynix DDR2-667 that still runs like a champ and has never had the memory replaced.

You might think my post was invalid but it was merely my opinion and if you read the post correctly there is validity to what I said. We can agree to disagree!
[doublepost=1516673121][/doublepost]Hynix isn't the best memory and all I was saying is that Apple should use the best memory for the prices they charge.

Have you ever researched some of the aftermarket brands that offer higher clock speed RAM? A vast majority use an SK Hynix memory chip. Example - G.Skill Ripjaws

Also what I said about the memory holds water but many people have twisted what I said about the Hynix memory on this forum. Wording such as sub par is one example. I never said that. All I said is Hynix isn't a higher end of memory and not of great quality. Again this statement has been completely twisted by members on this forum. I also pre-ficed my post with a statement that said Apple makes great products but this is overlooked.

How does anything that you said about SK Hynix memory hold water? It must hold water in a waterless lake or pond.

What I have learned is there are a lot of forum bullies here and you are one of them. I didn't work myself into a frenzy but everyone else did over my post. That is fine as everyone is entitled to participate in this discussion but to get personally attacked over a thread I started isn't necessary.
[doublepost=1516856835][/doublepost]
Yes, the CPU's are under clocked and that is a fact.

There aren't any bullies in this forum. They are simply calling out your false and baseless opinion as just that: false and baseless. If you think that is bullying, then you sir have a thin skin.

The CPUs are not underclocked. They were co-designed/engineered by Apple and Intel in a partnership specifically for the iMac Pro and if you still think they are "underclocked" then I will let you remain a fool because there is no sense in arguing with a fool.

The bottom line is Apple does take shortcuts with their computers and in fact Apple has brainwashed everyone into believing they are the best of the best. It is a fact that the processor is under clocked. Maybe Apple has a valid reason for this which from what I have read has to do with the cooling system. Why not have a processor that isn't under clocked and provide the proper cooling system. They use memory from different manufacturers and the quality differs between manufacturers. This is a fact and all you have to do is to google the information about different brands of memory to validate this. Yes some of the IMac Pro machines have Micron memory but you have to get 64GB or more to get this brand. You get the base machine and you will end up with Hynix. I will also say that Apple uses one of the best flash storage drives if not the best. My point is to use the best of everything and not just on certain components.

FACT: you don't understand, AT ALL, what goes into the engineering of a system of this caliber, period. If you did, you'd understand that it takes time and sometimes it takes having one your suppliers, in this case Intel, creating a custom part just for you. Dell & HP have this done by Intel for their server lines.

FACT: Companies as large as Apple (ie. Dell, HP, IBM, Sun, etc) all have multiple suppliers of components (HDD, RAM, Optical Drive...they still exist) and use them throughout their product lines. This is simple business: get bids from each supplier and have them bid against each other. Any Apple computer, desktop or notebook, will have any of the following suppliers for RAM - Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron, Nanya (much less now), and Elpida before Hynix bought them. I know all of this first hand because as I mentioned, I worked for Apple. What you call facts about the "quality" of different manufacturers is subjective. These are products designed by humans, manufactured by machines based on human design, and can have faults. So I guess the Toshiba NAND in the iOS devices isn't quality because they don't produce a RAM chip...?!? Really?!?

FACT: SSDs were supplied by three companies at one point in time: Samsung, Toshiba, and SanDisk. Once Samsung came out with the SM951, Apple went to Samsung pretty much exclusively. Once Apple acquired the Israeli firm Anobit in December 2011, they began working on their own NVMe Storage controller. It is custom to them and uses either SanDisk or Toshiba NAND on certain SSDs. The iMac Pro from what I've seen in screenshots and the iFixIt teardown is Samsung NAND and the Apple NVMe controller is more than likely based on the SSPOLARIS or SSPHOENIX Samsung NVMe Controller.


[doublepost=1517378735][/doublepost]
Certainly I can't see where they get their retail price for the iMac Pro as it seems to about $2k over priced for the spec.

Price Comparison by Digital Trends (Mind you the Dell only has 10-Cores and only 3TB of NVMe storage)
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/maxed-imac-pro-costs-over-13k-but-what-can-you-get-on-pc/
 
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Really useful insight into how Apple works as opposed to speculation, thanks.
 
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