iMac Pro... really?!

[ThunderSkunk]

[doublepost=1513185197][/doublepost]
And what force from heaven is keeping them from using the old case?

I have a few big Mac Pro towers yet sitting in the NOC. I should see how much of the hardware we can gut and upgrade to current parts spec. New board, new everything...building a modern hackintosh Mac Pro, in a classic real Mac Pro. hm. This was actually a really nice case, built to last about four hundred thousand years. I guess there’s no reason not to just keep stuffing new components into it. ...it’s so big I could probably build a thin flat panel display into the removable side, turn it sideways on my desk, and call it an all-in-one. SuperUltraMegaMacPro.

 

[AphoticD]

honestly the imac pro isn't for you if you think it's overpriced. IT's because you don't understand why these components cost as much as they do. Get over it. Some things may not just be for you. NO need to cry about it.

and don't you think the "lack of competition" tells you something? It tells you either

1) Apple is just leagues in front of everybody else
2) there's just not much to innovate on in this space

Yes, the early adopters can be thanked for financially backing this new product and for putting themselves through the first gen teething issues. I’ll hold out for 2nd or 3rd gen personally as the price plummets and the 18 core becomes the base model.

Either that or go for the coming modular Mac Pro when it hits, which we can (safely?) speculate as having more bang for the buck.

That is unless Apple try to redefine the modular Pro machine (again).

 

[Count Blah]

honestly the imac pro isn't for you if you think it's overpriced. IT's because you don't understand why these components cost as much as they do. Get over it. Some things may not just be for you. NO need to cry about it.

and don't you think the "lack of competition" tells you something? It tells you either

1) Apple is just leagues in front of everybody else
2) there's just not much to innovate on in this space

I'll agree with you on the price part. The 18-core CPU alone is $2,500 - much cheaper for Apple at discount prices, but still.

You also forgot an option
3)No one else would think of slapping a blow torch 18-Core CPU and a SUPER high power hungry Vega, in a thin All-in-one.

Apple is doubling down on the poor choices that failed the tcMP

Easy way to spot a VEGA user ...

 

[Fried Chicken]

A new display is coming. A new Mac Pro is coming. The iMac Pro is Gen 1---I think they want to make sure the thermals in the new machine are solid before stuffing them in the old machine. External GPU's work over TB 3.

I'm not really sure what the issue is here. They are explicitly working on or doing just about all that you are complaining about, including offering support for VR.

ALL APPLE HAS TO DO IS UPDATE THEIR POWERMAC CASE.
What possible "innovation" is apple going to stick into the new Mac Pro, and why on earth should I as a consumer wait?

The TB display was released in 2011 and discontinued over a year ago. In 2013 apple, with much fanfare, came out with a pathetic excuse for a "Pro" computer.
Now they've courageously and innovatively released an even more pathetic excuse for a pro computer.


Apple, you have the best operating system ever made. Stop ****ing it up. Stop neutering your hardware and software, give me the full bull with the horns. Looks and feelings be damned.


[edit]

In case anyone has forgotten, this is what made apple great (Jump to 1:09:25):

 

[robgendreau]

ALL APPLE HAS TO DO IS UPDATE THEIR POWERMAC CASE.
What possible "innovation" is apple going to stick into the new Mac Pro, and why on earth should I as a consumer wait?

The TB display was released in 2011 and discontinued over a year ago. In 2013 apple, with much fanfare, came out with a pathetic excuse for a "Pro" computer.
Now they've courageously and innovatively released an even more pathetic excuse for a pro computer.


Apple, you have the best operating system ever made. Stop ****ing it up. Stop neutering your hardware and software, give me the full bull with the horns. Looks and feelings be damned.
[/MEDIA]

Ouch.

But I tend to agree. Nice design is great, and so is beautiful design. But believe it or not you can have both of those in a machine that someone can open up and upgrade. Desktops are just commodoties now and geez Apple nobody cares about seeing iMacs or MBPs in movie product placements and so on.

And I'm not so sure about the operating system. Someone's gonna do better some day and hand Apple their head. The Finder? really? we're still using folder metaphors? It might be the QWERTY keyboard problem, but still.

 

[Count Blah]

Ouch.

But I tend to agree. Nice design is great, and so is beautiful design. But believe it or not you can have both of those in a machine that someone can open up and upgrade.

But then Apple doesn’t get THEIR taste. And that’s all that matters to Apple these days - customers be damned.

 

[bxs]

Ouch.

But I tend to agree. Nice design is great, and so is beautiful design. But believe it or not you can have both of those in a machine that someone can open up and upgrade. ...snip...

Show me one of those. Opening up and upgrading is so yesterday IMO. Let's move on from this nonsense.

Merry/Happy Christmas Day to ALL.

May The Mac be with you.

 

[Larry-K]

What is the complaint here exactly?

iMac Pro looks insanely good, as far as I can tell. And it's similarly priced to an equivalent PC.

At the slow rate technology is progressing, even the entry-level model could likely last you 15 years, assuming the screen held up and didn't become too dim.

An iMac with no fatal component failures and a functional operating system in Fifteen years?

If that happens, be sure to contact the Smithsonian or "Ripley's Believe it or Not" Museums, they'll both be begging for it.

 

[AphoticD]

Show me one of those. Opening up and upgrading is so yesterday IMO. Let's move on from this nonsense.

Merry/Happy Christmas Day to ALL.

May The Mac be with you.

Cramming hot running components into a tiny space is the Apple of today. I understand wanting an extremely powerful and portable MacBook Pro maxed out with zero upgradability. But, what’s the logic behind an extremely powerful, non-upgradable and incredibly expensive, space saving iMac Pro that sits at a desk?

How many pro users are THAT limited on desk space that they require an all in one?

I imagine it’s a trial run before putting all of these increased power and cooling enhancements into a spacious, upgradable tower design with efficient thermal/cooling capabilities and plenty of elbow room for user upgrades.
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An iMac with no fatal component failures and a functional operating system in Fifteen years?

If that happens, be sure to contact the Smithsonian or "Ripley's Believe it or Not" Museums, they'll both be begging for it.

Nearly 15 years ago, Apple released the iMac G4 (Early 2003) 17” with a 1Ghz(!) PowerPC G4 CPU with AltiVec, 256K L2 cache, 256MB RAM as standard (upgradable to 1GB), 60GB 5400rpm HDD and a 64MB GeForce 2 MX (AGP 2x) GPU.

There are plenty of these beautiful iMacs still operating, but with the line drawn at Mac OS X Leopard (10.5), software is limited. However through the tireless efforts of mostly unpaid development, these Macs can still browse the modern web and most office software will still operate as it did when it was new. Not forgetting the hundreds (thousands?) of open source programs that will compile and run on these older Macs and the few alternative operating system options such as Ubuntu Mate, Debian or MorphOS (ATi only).

It’s hardly modern, but still functional.

I can only imagine where tech will get to 15 years from now, but the future certainly looks bright!

 

[MH01]

Yes, the early adopters can be thanked for financially backing this new product and for putting themselves through the first gen teething issues. I’ll hold out for 2nd or 3rd gen personally as the price plummets and the 18 core becomes the base model.

Either that or go for the coming modular Mac Pro when it hits, which we can (safely?) speculate as having more bang for the buck.

That is unless Apple try to redefine the modular Pro machine (again).

Ummm as a first generation 2013 Mac Pro owner...... it's still the first and last version going into 5 years .... you assume these will be updated ....

The lesson with Apple and "pro" that is not a toy for profit reasons, don't expect an update .... for a very very long time .

 

[Fried Chicken]

An iMac with no fatal component failures and a functional operating system in Fifteen years?

If that happens, be sure to contact the Smithsonian or "Ripley's Believe it or Not" Museums, they'll both be begging for it.

Even without component failure, there will be the inevitable dust build up that must be cleaned, or the computer will suffer significant performance loss.

 

[AphoticD]

Ummm as a first generation 2013 Mac Pro owner...... it's still the first and last version going into 5 years .... you assume these will be updated ....

The lesson with Apple and "pro" that is not a toy for profit reasons, don't expect an update .... for a very very long time .

True, the iMac Pro will make a nice collectible one day along with the TAM, the G4 Cube and your stealthy little Mac Pro 2013.

 

[Trebuin]

Even without component failure, there will be the inevitable dust build up that must be cleaned, or the computer will suffer significant performance loss.

You actually bring up a very good issue. When I'm in the desert, I actually try helping the life of my air purifier by adding a sheet of fabric softener over the ports. I know, it makes no sense with an air purifier, but we don't have replacement cartridges & it slows down badly as it clogs with dirt; but we can replace it with those sheets. I did this with my Drobo as well & it helped.

Obviously, this won't work with the iMac pro, but it shows that we may be able to rig up something. If not, we just have to have it torn apart once in a while to have it cleaned out to preserve the life. Another benefit for me picking the 8 core vs the Bajillion core Xeon.

 

[thefriendshipmachine]

I am even more worried about the thermal situation in the Pro now. So I had a 2014 iMac that had many problems. Most I think were caused by the GPU running at 99C which eventually burned the screen. Apple sent me a brand new 2017 iMac. Now the CPU in this iMac spikes up to 100C degrees when I install an app, run a virtual machine, or do anything even briefly CPU intensive.... I think unless Apple made some serious improvements to the cooling situation here that Mac Pro owners might get completely screwed over. The Pro will produce even more heat. Apple has had 4 years to get this gen's iMac thermals under control and they haven't managed it yet. The newest/best non-pro iMac has thermal issues still.

I would be very weary of the iMac Pro at first.

 

[Trebuin]

I am even more worried about the thermal situation in the Pro now. So I had a 2014 iMac that had many problems. Most I think were caused by the GPU running at 99C which eventually burned the screen. Apple sent me a brand new 2017 iMac. Now the CPU in this iMac spikes up to 100C degrees when I install an app, run a virtual machine, or do anything even briefly CPU intensive.... I think unless Apple made some serious improvements to the cooling situation here that Mac Pro owners might get completely screwed over. The Pro will produce even more heat. Apple has had 4 years to get this gen's iMac thermals under control and they haven't managed it yet. The newest/best non-pro iMac has thermal issues still.

I would be very weary of the iMac Pro at first.

Actually, I have yet to clean my 2007 iMac out, it's still running fine. Granted, it doesn't ever run hot. I'll be running temp checks today under stress of the pro & will post them in my other thread.

 

[EightyTwenty]

Nearly 15 years ago, Apple released the iMac G4 (Early 2003) 17” with a 1Ghz(!) PowerPC G4 CPU with AltiVec, 256K L2 cache, 256MB RAM as standard (upgradable to 1GB), 60GB 5400rpm HDD and a 64MB GeForce 2 MX (AGP 2x) GPU.

There are plenty of these beautiful iMacs still operating, but with the line drawn at Mac OS X Leopard (10.5), software is limited. However through the tireless efforts of mostly unpaid development, these Macs can still browse the modern web and most office software will still operate as it did when it was new. Not forgetting the hundreds (thousands?) of open source programs that will compile and run on these older Macs and the few alternative operating system options such as Ubuntu Mate, Debian or MorphOS (ATi only).

It’s hardly modern, but still functional.

I can only imagine where tech will get to 15 years from now, but the future certainly looks bright!

You also have to consider how advanced the iMac Pro is. The iMac G4 was a fairly modestly specced machine when it was released in 2003, whereas even the entry-level iMac Pro is practically a NASA-level computer compared to what is being offered on the consumer market today.

iMac Pro comes with 32GB of RAM... standard. We are probably a good 8 years away from 32GB becoming the standard in consumer PCs. We have been stuck at 8GB for years now, and it may be another 2 or 3 years before we even hit 16GB.

 

[Larry-K]

Nearly 15 years ago, Apple released the iMac G4 (Early 2003) 17” with a 1Ghz(!) PowerPC G4 CPU with AltiVec, 256K L2 cache, 256MB RAM as standard (upgradable to 1GB), 60GB 5400rpm HDD and a 64MB GeForce 2 MX (AGP 2x) GPU.

There are plenty of these beautiful iMacs still operating, but with the line drawn at Mac OS X Leopard (10.5), software is limited. However through the tireless efforts of mostly unpaid development, these Macs can still browse the modern web and most office software will still operate as it did when it was new. Not forgetting the hundreds (thousands?) of open source programs that will compile and run on these older Macs and the few alternative operating system options such as Ubuntu Mate, Debian or MorphOS (ATi only).

It’s hardly modern, but still functional.

View attachment 743678

I can only imagine where tech will get to 15 years from now, but the future certainly looks bright!

Well, despite Apple's assertion at the time, that the G4s were "Supercomputers" they didn't really function all that well when new.

Maybe people are still waiting for AltiVec Apps to show up.

The subsequent, far more powerful G5 models, have dropped like flies from power supply issues, and there's nothing to indicate that the Intel models that followed are particularly long lived, but if you can get by on the old G4, have at it.

I keep most of my Macs longer than anybody, but the two of these we had, got sent to recycling in the distant past.

Kudos to Apple understanding that an adjustable monitor is a good thing, sadly that institutional knowledge has been lost, as of late.

 

[bplein]

I don't have any hard facts, but it certainly seems that there are a lot of MacPro4,1 still in existence, now in many cases with a firmware flash to 5,1 and with Westmere processors.

I have a 4,1/5,1 per the above with a 6-core Westmere serving as very quiet yet powerful (enough) VMware ESXi server. Loaded with ancient Fusion-io PCIe storage in fact, and dual port Mellanox for cheap 40Gbit (using at 10Gbit)

 

[mrhick01]

In my opinion there is only one user base that is really suffering now that Apple has finally started looking at the Pro market again and that is gamers. If you really want the high end Nvidia GPUs with overclocked low core count CPU performance go build a hackintosh. Apple is never going to support what you want.

Even the new “modular” Mac Pro, I will be suprised if it takes off the shelf PC GPUs. Apple is in AMD GPUs for the long haul, and currently offers the top of the line professional and consumer AMD GPUs in current Apple products.

I'll say two: gamers and enthusiast-tinkerers (although that's what Hackintosh is for).

 

[chrono1081]

We need real competition.

Threads like yours are getting annoying. We get it, you can't comprehend who would use such a great machine but why come here and cry about it? Do some research, see who it's for, and let people who can utilize all the power of the machine enjoy it.

If you don't think the sheer power in a small form factor is innovation then you will never be pleased.

 

[Smearbrick]

iMac Pro is not a product to innovate. iMac Pro is a product to satisfy some (not necessarily all) of those who need the horsepower. That's all it does. Look at what happened last time when Apple tried to be innovative (trash can)? For pros, Apple doesn't need to be innovative. Just make a machine that has the right processing power.

Yes! Yes! Perfect! Innovation in aesthetics is doing no one any favors on a device such as the Mac Pro. Innovations in cooling, processing power... everything that you can't see is what is needed. Hell, even if the new Mac Pro came in an old-school recycled Gateway 2000 tower, the processing power and the user's ability to tap into it and utilize it properly and efficiently is is what's important. Packaging in a cute little box is entirely secondary.

 

[iriejedi]

On some level I share the initial complaint - quoting Yoda - "size matters not" - the form factor matters less to me than the stuff inside... seems iMac Pro Tech in a modular, user tinker-able case with an external screen is not a huge stretch of engineering magic.

My early 2008 MacPro is still amazing... that said... it has more memory and new SSD boot drive and a 'unsupported' video card - these small cheap upgrades have kept it completely usable (boots faster then my new engineering grade Dell i7+SSD work laptop)..... my concern on the iMac pro is not cost or not believing it is stunningly powerful - but the inability to quickly service common failure mode parts... fan, memory, power supply etc.... or refresh when I have some spare change and there is a techno leap upgrade available (new SSD tech, new video, decide 8gb more of ram is needed just cause I had nothing else to buy, etc...)

If Monitor dies - you can't run to Best Buy for a $200 27 inch screen to get back to work... its a $5k+ paperweight until you are blessed with a Genius Bar Appointment and hoping it died in the warranty period....that screen replacement I doubt will be cheap....

I'm very much looking forward to the promised modular MacPro.... expecting it will be my next 10+ year machine if they do it right....

What is the complaint here exactly?

iMac Pro looks insanely good, as far as I can tell. And it's similarly priced to an equivalent PC.

At the slow rate technology is progressing, even the entry-level model could likely last you 15 years, assuming the screen held up and didn't become too dim.

 

[driftless]

You actually ordered one?

Absolutely! You must not be reading the early reviews? We get it that you don't like the iMac Pro.

 

[EightyTwenty]

If Monitor dies - you can't run to Best Buy for a $200 27 inch screen to get back to work...

I'm pretty sure you can do exactly that.

 

[ThatSandWyrm]

Sorry but simply stuffing more powerful components into a chassis a few years old in design with a screen you already sell is not innovation, the Surface Studio was innovation with a fresh new idea to a target market.

I dunno... Mine came yesterday, and I've been benchmarking the hell out of it. Even when stressing the CPU and/or GPU, there is ZERO fan noise. Zero. That's an accomplishment right there. It's a godsend for audio editors.

Plus, I defy you to attach 3 5K displays to a PC without buying 3 video cards. And then be able to attach two external GPUs (with more monitors) in addition to that.