iMac Pro VESA-Gate

[Thunderbird]

I'm not piling on Apple here, owner of 5 base iMPs, all 4 in my offices have the VESA adapter - I haven't installed it on my home office iMP yet, waiting due to my desk not being done. I saw the video, posted #124 in the News page thread. Listened to the guy whine, ended it after around 5 minutes, finished my desk last night.

IMO the guy's a frickin' idiot and a whiner. As I posted in the other thread, the screws are steel.

And, there's Loctite on all of the screws - Blue Threadlocker Loctite, (as opposed to pink or red) - I called out the Loctite in that post but not which type. Anyone with experience with blue Loctite knows one needs to apply heat - with a soldering iron with a pin tip iron or pinpoint butane torch to warm up the fastener and loosen up the blue Loctite, at least apply heat to the removal tool and touch it to each screw for a few minutes - those are the PWT methods, the company specs out 482 degrees F/250 degrees C. I saw the Loctite, used a web search and found the product info in seconds.

The YouTuber is IMO calling out Apple for using cheap screws - they're not cheap screws - I'm calling him out on not being aware of what the screw's materials are (seconds with a magnet proved him wrong), not being aware of what he was installing and using the proper procedure for removing the screws, and going into crisis mode when he's the guy who - pun intended - screwed up. He disassembles the mount properly, this never is an issue. I took the time to read the instructions and assess the installation - IMO the YouTuber is pretty much an idiot who was too lazy to determine how to disassemble the VESA mount. I saw Blue Loctite on the screws as soon as I pulled them from the packaging and knew what needed to be done in case of removal of the mount, IMO he didn't have a clue and chose to manufacture a crisis instead...

In other words...'you're mounting it wrong'.

I posted this thread because it has potentially serious consequences for the relatively small number of people who bought the VESA mount. If their $5,000 (or $13,000) iMac Pro were to fall off their VESA mount, that could be potentially catastrophic. And it's completely unrealistic and ridiculous to expect people not only to never move their iMac Pro once they've VESA mounted it, but also to be knowledgeable about metallurgy, and have to blowtorch the Loctite screws to unmount it. Especially since none of this is stated in the manual.

Thanks to everyone who felt this story should be on the front page. I wasn't trying to get it on the front page, I just posted it to bring it to other people's attention. Serious design flaws like this should be made public so that feedback can get trickle back to Apple. The iMac Pro is a great machine, from all accounts. It would be a shame for someone to spend so much money on one only to have it fall off a VESA mount. To be fair to Apple, they didn't design the mount, but they can hopefully correct the situation now that they're aware of it.

 

[Abazigal]

I'm surprised that there aren't as many people trying to blame the YouTuber or comments such as "Oh Well then Maybe you should have not removed the stand at all then!" Or something like that.

In this case, the stand was clearly meant to be removed to accommodate the VESA stand, which is an official Apple-branded accessory.

If you tell me the screws broke off after being inserted and removed constantly on a daily basis, maybe. But it barely lasted one removal. Something is clearly wrong with the materials used.

 

[campyguy]

????Please share pic of “proper removal” as seen in this manual.

WTH are you writing about. Do you own one of these, or just being a snarky PITA. Read up for yourself, just as I'd alluded to.
[doublepost=1527580249][/doublepost]

Hmmm.... as soon as you explain that you used a butane torch to disassemble the computer from the mount, I’m pretty sure Apple will flag the computer as warranty void.

Where did you read "that you used a butane torch to disassemble the computer from the mount" - specifically. Quote me, specifically. I never used a butane torch, never even alluded to it. You obviously didn't read my post, just jumped to the end. Hmmm. Do you even know how to loosen a fastener with Blue Loctite? See the pic I just uploaded. Don't forget to provide the quote. I'm not the bad guy here, the YouTuber and Apple both are culpable, but you shouldn't be misquoting me here.
[doublepost=1527580632][/doublepost]

Lol so he’s supposed to know to use a soldering iron to remove screws when it doesn’t say anywhere to do so from the kit he purchased? Why didn’t the AppleCare support inform him of this instead of just passing him off to the OEM while not giving him the contact info? An apple branded kit with apple instructions and apple support number for customer service but they can’t do anything. For a 5k “Pro” machine.

And it was apple who mangled his stand trying to get it back on. No excuses.

And, yes, look specifically at the product pic I just uploaded - yes, almost 500 degrees F are required to loosen Blue Loctite. I've used it, I've specced it out - I'm surmising you don't have one of these mounts (I do) and I'm surmising that you've never used Blue Loctite before (I have). So, yes, he's supposed to have figured it out. Apple's culpable for not properly calling out how to disassemble the mount, and I've already informed Apple Engineering of it.

Again, read the specs in the pic from the Loctite web portal. My main issue with the YouTuber is that he's griping about the zinc fasteners - they're not made of zinc. OTOH, if you don't know what you're doing, pay someone. The YouTuber's use of a drill, gawd what an idiot. Get off my back.
[doublepost=1527581451][/doublepost]

In other words...'you're mounting it wrong'.

No. The guy's an idiot, having posted FUD and inaccurate information and making a big deal out of not being familiar with the product.

Read what I wrote. They're steel screws. He claimed they're zinc screws. The screws have Blue Loctite on the threads - Loctite specs out that a temperature of 482°F is required to soften it before backing out the screws, or to shear off the screws. This bit took me about 15 seconds to figure out, even before my first install.

One more bit. This kit is pretty much the same VESA adapter that Apple's been selling for older iMacs for a frickin' decade. This isn't a new issue, except for the YouTuber who was in a hurry and misrepresented the screws' materials. I watched the guy use of a drill - he's a nitwit who should have paid someone to extract the screws. I installed 4 of these in an hour a few weeks ago - QED.

I didn't write anything, at all, not one bit, about "you're mounting it wrong". What did you read that drove you to push that perspective? I reread my post, the guy lied and is a whiner, doesn't know how to use power tools, and did not take 30 seconds to note that Loctite is on all of the screws. If you don't own one of these, you've got zero skin in this IMHO. I own 5 of them, and there's no issue here aside from me pointing out that the YouTuber isn't telling the story properly.

 

[TomOSeven]

And, there's Loctite on all of the screws - Blue Threadlocker Loctite, (as opposed to pink or red) - I called out the Loctite in that post but not which type. Anyone with experience with blue Loctite knows one needs to apply heat - with a soldering iron with a pin tip iron or pinpoint butane torch to warm up the fastener and loosen up the blue Loctite, at least apply heat to the removal tool and touch it to each screw for a few minutes - those are the PWT methods, the company specs out 482 degrees F/250 degrees C. I saw the Loctite, used a web search and found the product info in seconds.

Yeah that seems like a reasonable expectation to have of a user who wants to use a VESA mount.

 

[throAU]

The whole iMac pro situation is a complete joke.

No one wanted a multiple thousand dollar pro machine that can not be separated from the monitor and is virtually impossible to upgrade. Pro users will often want multiple screens, (which apple don't make) so building that pretty iMac Pro with built in display is a complete waste of time - it won't match the other display(s) a typical pro user will likely have.

The trash can was a far better solution than this.

I'm not sure if Apple are being deliberately deaf to customer hardware demands (like Microsoft throughout the Windows 8-8.1 debacle), but its either that or they're genuinely completely out of touch with their userbase.


People who are in the mac ecosystem who need the power will buy these things and pay for them via the work they get done on them. But you can only hold users hostage against their will for so long before they will rebel and shift platform.

 

[0014]

I'm not piling on Apple here, owner of 5 base iMPs, all 4 in my offices have the VESA adapter - I haven't installed it on my home office iMP yet, waiting due to my desk not being done. I saw the video, posted #124 in the News page thread. Listened to the guy whine, ended it after around 5 minutes, finished my desk last night.

IMO the guy's a frickin' idiot and a whiner. As I posted in the other thread, the screws are steel.

And, there's Loctite on all of the screws - Blue Threadlocker Loctite, (as opposed to pink or red) - I called out the Loctite in that post but not which type. Anyone with experience with blue Loctite knows one needs to apply heat - with a soldering iron with a pin tip iron or pinpoint butane torch to warm up the fastener and loosen up the blue Loctite, at least apply heat to the removal tool and touch it to each screw for a few minutes - those are the PWT methods, the company specs out 482 degrees F/250 degrees C. I saw the Loctite, used a web search and found the product info in seconds.

The YouTuber is IMO calling out Apple for using cheap screws - they're not cheap screws - I'm calling him out on not being aware of what the screw's materials are (seconds with a magnet proved him wrong), not being aware of what he was installing and using the proper procedure for removing the screws, and going into crisis mode when he's the guy who - pun intended - screwed up. He disassembles the mount properly, this never is an issue. I took the time to read the instructions and assess the installation - IMO the YouTuber is pretty much an idiot who was too lazy to determine how to disassemble the VESA mount. I saw Blue Loctite on the screws as soon as I pulled them from the packaging and knew what needed to be done in case of removal of the mount, IMO he didn't have a clue and chose to manufacture a crisis instead...

It’s seems you’re the ‘frickin idiot’!

It clearly says in loctites own instructions to shear the bond with hand tools.

In RARE circumstances where hand tools don’t work due to excessive engagement length you can apply localised heat.

But you categorically should not need heat to undo a screw of that length because of Blue Threadlocker!

 

[flyinmac]

WTH are you writing about. Do you own one of these, or just being a snarky PITA. Read up for yourself, just as I'd alluded to.View attachment 763443
[doublepost=1527580249][/doublepost]
Where did you read "that you used a butane torch to disassemble the computer from the mount" - specifically. Quote me, specifically. I never used a butane torch, never even alluded to it. You obviously didn't read my post, just jumped to the end. Hmmm. Do you even know how to loosen a fastener with Blue Loctite? See the pic I just uploaded. Don't forget to provide the quote. I'm not the bad guy here, the YouTuber and Apple both are culpable, but you shouldn't be misquoting me here.
[doublepost=1527580632][/doublepost]
And, yes, look specifically at the product pic I just uploaded - yes, almost 500 degrees F are required to loosen Blue Loctite. I've used it, I've specced it out - I'm surmising you don't have one of these mounts (I do) and I'm surmising that you've never used Blue Loctite before (I have). So, yes, he's supposed to have figured it out. Apple's culpable for not properly calling out how to disassemble the mount, and I've already informed Apple Engineering of it.

Again, read the specs in the pic from the Loctite web portal. My main issue with the YouTuber is that he's griping about the zinc fasteners - they're not made of zinc. OTOH, if you don't know what you're doing, pay someone. The YouTuber's use of a drill, gawd what an idiot. Get off my back.
[doublepost=1527581451][/doublepost]
No. The guy's an idiot, having posted FUD and inaccurate information and making a big deal out of not being familiar with the product.

Read what I wrote. They're steel screws. He claimed they're zinc screws. The screws have Blue Loctite on the threads - Loctite specs out that a temperature of 482°F is required to soften it before backing out the screws, or to shear off the screws. This bit took me about 15 seconds to figure out, even before my first install.

One more bit. This kit is pretty much the same VESA adapter that Apple's been selling for older iMacs for a frickin' decade. This isn't a new issue, except for the YouTuber who was in a hurry and misrepresented the screws' materials. I watched the guy use of a drill - he's a nitwit who should have paid someone to extract the screws. I installed 4 of these in an hour a few weeks ago - QED.

I didn't write anything, at all, not one bit, about "you're mounting it wrong". What did you read that drove you to push that perspective? I reread my post, the guy lied and is a whiner, doesn't know how to use power tools, and did not take 30 seconds to note that Loctite is on all of the screws. If you don't own one of these, you've got zero skin in this IMHO. I own 5 of them, and there's no issue here aside from me pointing out that the YouTuber isn't telling the story properly.

I didn’t misquote you. I quoted your full text. And then pointed out that if you call Apple and tell them that you used a torch, that they’d void your warranty.

If YOU are unfamiliar with the English language, nothing I said even implied that you had done so.

I simply pointed out that if you were to do so, that your warranty would be voided.

I also pointed out that advising others to do so is a bad decision.

I realize that perhaps the nuances in the English language are beyond some people’s ability to grasp. And if it didn’t appear to be your primary language, I’d say perhaps something got lost in translation.

But, given your writing style, it would appear that you should be very familiar with the English language, and have instead chosen to twist everywhere that you can to try and make it appear as though you’re being unfairly critiqued.

But, your statements have been evaluated fairly by everyone in this discussion. And nothing you’ve provided has proven your point.

You were asked to provide the Apple manual documentation that shows Apple saying that you must heat the screws to remove them. Since you claim to have this kit, that documentation should be easy to provide if it exists. Instead, you show us the writing on a Loctite box that says to use hand tools (but that you can use heat if hand tools prove unsuccessful).

Perhaps you fail to realize that this instruction specifically applies to situations where the bond has been made for a long time. It says that explicitly on the Loctite box.

For those of us with a mechanical background. We know that this situation is usually in areas of automotive and industrial machinery. For example an engine block.

There is no circumstance where the industrial bolts are expected to be weaker than the threadlocker. Loctite is never meant to be stronger than the bolt. And it’s not even necessary in a properly designed monitor mount (if Apple had designed the mount properly).

In traditional areas that you might use Loctite, you would have a bolt which was installed with a torque wrench. Say 45 to 75 foot-pounds of torque.

And to release that bolt, you would apply more pressure than you could supply with your finger tips. You would probably put your body weight against it. And the bolt head should not break off. If the bolt did not release under your body weight, it could be because it has been in there for 5 to 30 years. And in that case, you might apply heat to cause the metal to change its dimensions (as heat does) and lessen its grip on the bolt.

Two metals of different properties will expand at different rates under heat. This produces gaps. Which is the reason that earlier aluminum based heads had problems when mated to steel engine blocks.

The screws used in the referenced video were not under significant torque. Had not been installed for a long time. Are a weak composition, and used for a purpose that they are not suitable for.

And Apple does not advise using heat to remove them. And Loctite says to use mechanical removal (not thermal) unless mechanical removal proves to fail. It doesn’t say if the screw head breaks off, because that is not an expected result of using Loctite. By design, you would only choose to use Loctite if the bolt was designed to withstand torque.

The rest of your post has already been dissected by others quite sufficiently and accurately.

 

[rjtiedeman]

I have a Apple LED Cinema Display hanging over my desk at 30lbs for a long time with out a problem. I think this is an issue with people not managing vendors well and testing products before they hit the street. It may have to do with forcing the supplier to provide black screws to match. Or just shady supplier trying to cut corners. When you are working off shore it is a a well know game that people will play to make 0.1% more on an order.

 

[NajamQ]

It's a very simple equation. More powerful components = More heat. Slimmer design = fragile. All in one = difficult to repair and upgrade.

What I don't get is both Apple and apparently youtube "professionals" are being unreal both in their demand and supplied equipment.

iMac pro is a very poweful PC aimed at studios, not home users. In Studios or professional workspaces there is almost always airconditioning, less dust and only professional work being done on supplied equipment which are mostly maintained through administration, not personal expenses. Not encoding youtube videos made to attract views and clickbaits.

Now $5000 is not a small amount. If I had a computer costing this much at home (I do actually own a late 2014 5K iMac) I wouldn't even let a fly near it, let alone playing with it like a toy. These youtube tech toddlers are either incredibly rich to afford and stupid enough to toy with this stuff or sponsored to do so. (See those idiotic videos by techrex destroying iPhones).

My point is, you don't go and buy professional equipment just because you feel like it. There has to be a specific requirement and enough reason to actually spend a fortune on it. Then there is an amazing choice of equipment out there, Eizo Monitors, PCs which are built to handle heat and load and ease of access for cleaning and maintenance. If iMac pro fits your requirement, then good. Proper homework has to be done before even thinking about using your credit card on your way back home to buy an iMac Pro which you happen to notice during window shopping and then play throw and catch with it.

VESA mount on iMac Pro may be fragile and Apple should have spent time on QA. But I don't blame Apple, I still love their products. It's the job of customer to actually do proper homework about his actual needs instead of waiting in line to get the new "i". So thank you for this thread as an awareness to protect the investments.

On a side note, I hate youtube tech toddlers, but that's just me ranting about a random thing on a random forum.

 

[pier]

I'm not piling on Apple here, owner of 5 base iMPs, all 4 in my offices have the VESA adapter - I haven't installed it on my home office iMP yet, waiting due to my desk not being done. I saw the video, posted #124 in the News page thread. Listened to the guy whine, ended it after around 5 minutes, finished my desk last night.

IMO the guy's a frickin' idiot and a whiner. As I posted in the other thread, the screws are steel.

And, there's Loctite on all of the screws - Blue Threadlocker Loctite, (as opposed to pink or red) - I called out the Loctite in that post but not which type. Anyone with experience with blue Loctite knows one needs to apply heat - with a soldering iron with a pin tip iron or pinpoint butane torch to warm up the fastener and loosen up the blue Loctite, at least apply heat to the removal tool and touch it to each screw for a few minutes - those are the PWT methods, the company specs out 482 degrees F/250 degrees C. I saw the Loctite, used a web search and found the product info in seconds.

The YouTuber is IMO calling out Apple for using cheap screws - they're not cheap screws - I'm calling him out on not being aware of what the screw's materials are (seconds with a magnet proved him wrong), not being aware of what he was installing and using the proper procedure for removing the screws, and going into crisis mode when he's the guy who - pun intended - screwed up. He disassembles the mount properly, this never is an issue. I took the time to read the instructions and assess the installation - IMO the YouTuber is pretty much an idiot who was too lazy to determine how to disassemble the VESA mount. I saw Blue Loctite on the screws as soon as I pulled them from the packaging and knew what needed to be done in case of removal of the mount, IMO he didn't have a clue and chose to manufacture a crisis instead...

Nothing the youtuber did or said excuses how badly Apple damaged the product while trying to fix it.

 

[Bryan Bowler]

I'm not sure how a thread on a Vesa-mount issue led to 5 or 6 posts about how people think the upper-end models are over-priced and not specced very well. I'm using a max'd out iMac Pro and aside from some MacOS teething issues, this machine is an absolute beast. I am editing multi-cam 35mm full-frame 4K 60 fps videos at breakneck speeds. No proxies. No conversions. No waiting for rendering or dropped frames. This thing is insanely fast!

 

[Ifti]

When you purchase the VESA kit is does not come with blue threadlock included in the package. The YouTuber purchased the kit (since he has the original stand) hence it did not come pre-assembled from Apple, so Im assuming no threadlock was used.

 

[NajamQ]

When you purchase the VESA kit is does not come with blue threadlock included in the package. The YouTuber purchased the kit (since he has the original stand) hence it did not come pre-assembled from Apple, so Im assuming no threadlock was used.

Just to make it clear, you mean the iMac Pro came with a stand but not a VESA mount? I thought there are always two versions for iMac, those with non-VESA stands and those with removable stand for mounting. So the weakness is the screws used to tighten the VESA. Shouldn't the area be reinforced in first place by Apple. And if you never use a VESA Mount, that stand is going to hold the iMac for years. Who is to blame then? Apple or Mount manufacturer?

Besides I think it's common sense for Apple to reinforce the mounting screw locations.

I think it's a mishandling situation. There is a famous saying in these parts. "If you can't dance, it must be the uneven floor".

 

[Ifti]

Just to make it clear, you mean the iMac Pro came with a stand but not a VESA mount? I thought there are always two versions for iMac, those with non-VESA stands and those with removable stand for mounting. So the weakness is the screws used to tighten the VESA. Shouldn't the area be reinforced in first place by Apple. And if you never use a VESA Mount, that stand is going to hold the iMac for years. Who is to blame then? Apple or Mount manufacturer?

Besides I think it's common sense for Apple to reinforce the mounting screw locations.

I think it's a mishandling situation. There is a famous saying in these parts. "If you can't dance, it must be the uneven floor".

The way I understand it, the iMAC comes with a stand. If you purchase the VESA mount at a later date, the mount comes with the mounting screws etc, and you are able to swap the stand for the mount.
If you purchase the iMAC with the Vesa mount from new, it comes with the mount pre-installed (no stand).
Either way, all iMAC stands are removable.

I think in this case the YouTuber purchased it with stand, and then installed the mount separately afterwards. Looks like he followed all instructions correctly but the screws are either weak, or there is an issue with the threads built into the rear of the iMAC?

Who knows, but either way, the stand should not have come back mangled like it did (Im surprised Apple even gave it back in that condition, they should have seen that and replaced it with a new unit) and the screws should not have broken again while he [seemingly] carefully removed them..... I think the main issue here is how things went after AppleCare engineers had 'done their bit'......

 

[smirking]

Question is where else did they go cheap???

I doubt it was their intention to go cheap. It could very well be that they didn't have the right person overlooking the supply chain for the iMac Pro or they didn't have people to monitor some aspects of the iMac Pro production. Around the time that the iMac pro was still being designed would be the same time Apple was deciding to exit the display market before having to do a 180 not long afterwards. That could have left a gap in their normal supply chain practices.

I know that when they care, they really care a lot because I have a friend who's been sent on short notice around the world to inspect yield and quality from factories in far flung places that produce parts and components for Apple.

 

[NajamQ]

The way I understand it, the iMAC comes with a stand. If you purchase the VESA mount at a later date, the mount comes with the mounting screws etc, and you are able to swap the stand for the mount.
If you purchase the iMAC with the Vesa mount from new, it comes with the mount pre-installed (no stand).
Either way, all iMAC stands are removable.

I think in this case the YouTuber purchased it with stand, and then installed the mount separately afterwards. Looks like he followed all instructions correctly but the screws are either weak, or there is an issue with the threads built into the rear of the iMAC?

Who knows, but either way, the stand should not have come back mangled like it did (Im surprised Apple even gave it back in that condition, they should have seen that and replaced it with a new unit) and the screws should not have broken again while he [seemingly] carefully removed them..... I think the main issue here is how things went after AppleCare engineers had 'done their bit'......

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. However there were some cases with earlier slimmer iMacs where the tensioner spring would snap. Some people reported they heard a lound snap and their iMac would not hold upright anymore. Later Apple replaced the later iMac stands with more robust holders for screws. And there have not been many reports ever since.

Now keeping that in mind it's not something Apple would go back to lower quality parts knowing the stand as an integral part of iMac usability.

The technician who damaged the stand did something extraordinary and didn't report it to Apple I suppose as otherwise they wouldn't give the iMac in a worse condition in which they recieved it.

iMac stands in last few years are one of the sturdiest parts I have found. They are very solid and cannot be bent so easily.

 

[AnonMac50]

Current normal iMacs can be bought in either VESA or stand version. You cannot change it after you buy it (unless you disassemble it completely, then I'm not sure). However, iMac Pros all come with stands and should you want a VESA mount you have to buy it seperately and fit it yourself.

 

[throAU]

My point is, you don't go and buy professional equipment just because you feel like it. There has to be a specific requirement and enough reason to actually spend a fortune on it.

How about:

I want a Macintosh with a competent 3d processor in it?

I don't want to buy an iMac Pro, but i want something with a high end GPU in it. The iMac Pro is the only machine that has that.

The best Apple GPU outside of an iMac Pro at the moment is out-performed by upper-mid-range cards from 2017.

Apple supposedly build premium machines. I want a damn premium GPU without having to purchase an all-in-one. I want to be able to stick more than one in the machine to improve performance if i want.

Yes, for sure - that machine will be a niche machine. But it will be far less niche than what the iMac Pro is useful for.


Apple: it's not that difficult. There are a large number of your users who don't care if you were to say, take the 2009 Mac Pro case and update the internals of it.

You ALREADY have a workable design. There is no need to be working on something special for your pro users.

Fact is, right now i can build say, a threadripper 16 core box with 2 GPUs in it for just over half the cost of an entry level iMac Pro. No, i don't get a monitor. I have a monitor. I don't need one. Especially not one that will be thrown out when the mac inside it is no longer functional or useful.

 

[Moodles]

Couldn't agree more.

I've argued in these forums that the iMac Pro is not a Land Rover, but a SUV for camping enthusiasts. The tower Mac Pro was a true Land Rover. It worked on rugged muddy terrain all day long, and it was easy to repair and upgrade. Why can't Apple simply go back to that?

If I was working on video, 3d, vfx, motion graphics, etc, I'd be moving to Windows for my workstation. Hardware wise the difference is so huge it's not even funny.

For graphic design, dev, etc, my iMac 5K is a superb machine only dragged down by buggy High Sierra.

Nice analogy (also love the avatar).

Man, those towers served me well, rarely crashed, easily upgraded and were built like panzer tanks. The ones I have still look new short of a nick or two if you look closely. Now we get $80 mounts for a glued shut all-in-one. Welcome to the future.

I admit that I'm a bit of a freak, though. Many artists are specialized and can tailor a computer to what they need far easier than I. I'm trying to find out now if a dual Xeon Gold rig is a viable option. Windows on a non-ECC system just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen to me. Everything but 3D seems to have been "de-multithreaded," for lack of a better term. I can't even get info from Intel or developers. Everyone is so tight-lipped and seems partially lobotomized while also being snarky. It's very strange.

Me: "Does this work best or does that work best?"
Them: "Our products have maximum performance!"
Also Me:

I tell you though, trying to spec out a PC is no joyous task. 4 million options for everything, terrible pre-sales folks working for manufacturers who seem Precambrian in their tech savviness and nothing is guaranteed to work together. Apple pro hardware was solid and add-ons from reputable brands usually just worked.

I'm personally trying to find a turnkey place atm to see if it's worth it or I'm just going to build one myself. I think I'm scaring them away for requesting a machine that can multitask with pro grade parts.

Anyway, sorry to bog down the thread, guys. I'll post my bitching elsewhere from now on.

 

[ActionableMango]

IMO he didn't have a clue and chose to manufacture a crisis instead...

Give me a break. The only reasonable thing that can be expected of iMac end users is:

1. Follow the included instructions.
2. Failing that, seek support.

What you are saying is, for a simple monitor mount:

1. End users should be expected to use uncommon methods for removal that are contrary to the included instructions.
2. End users should be expected to correctly identify the type of threadlocker on their own even though there are other threadlockers that are also blue (Permatex for example).
3. End users, after having correctly identified the type of threadlocker, should then have to Google the instructions for that threadlocker.
4. End users, after having found the same instructions you linked to, should then ignore the threadlocker's first instruction which say to use tools for removal, and skip straight to the part that says heat is only needed for applications that have had excessive engagement length, and then assume that a few months is excessive engagement length.
5. End users should know that torches and soldering irons (or whatever else) are normal expected tools to use for monitor stand disassembly, and should know how to apply the heat to the specified temperature, without causing damage or voiding the warranty.
6. End users should expect to know all of the above even though Apple employees don't seem to know all of the above.
   
7. End users should expect Apple phone support to not support an Apple-branded product sold in an Apple Store, with an Apple Support number included.
8. End users should expect Apple Geniuses to mangle their iMac Pro stand and damage their iMac Pro case, and not mention any of this, hoping it wouldn't be noticed.
9. End users should expect Apple to mount the adapter barely hand tight such that the mount wiggles.

What you are suggesting this guy should have just naturally known to do is WAY outside the norm and completely unreasonable.

And even setting all that aside, Apple's own behavior was unacceptable. That's the type of support I'd expect from a no-name Chinese brand selling knockoff computers, not a premium US brand's multi-thousand dollar Pro machine.

 

[pier]

What you are suggesting this guy should have just naturally known to do is WAY outside the norm and completely unreasonable.

Couldn't agree more.

The core of the issue, I think, is that the iMac Pro is a niche product in the Mac ecosystem. Because of that, Apple didn't spend the resources to train their support staff nor properly design and test the accessories.

Another factor could have been that the iMac Pro is really a quick fix for the Mac Pro problem.

 

[Thunderbird]

Quinn Nelson's follow up video.

He's still mad, but at least Apple finally replaced his iMac Pro.

 

[Truefan31]

Quinn Nelson's follow up video.

He's still mad, but at least Apple finally replaced his iMac Pro.

Still egregious especially the manager acknowledging he knew that repair wasn’t going to work yet they gave it back to him anyway.......no excuses

People saying he doesn’t know how to use a screwdriver. Really? Smh

 

[flyinmac]

Quinn Nelson's follow up video.

He's still mad, but at least Apple finally replaced his iMac Pro.

Honestly... I feel the first video was beneficial. And necessary to call out attention and force change.

The second video just rubs me wrong somehow.

It’s not necessary. Doesn’t call out anything beyond what we could have intelligently realized from the first video (obviously they knew what they had done when the parts were mangled).

The follow up message of the computer had been exchanged was sufficient.

The second video just seems to go further than necessary.

He doesn’t need to become an Apple endorsement. But if it were me, I’d drop the point aside from encouraging a better design.

I’d temper the complaining a bit as they did handle the repair in the end, and are asking for the damaged equipment to investigate.

Simply put, while I’m typically blunt, and I call it like I see it, I also believe in a bit of class.

The second video just hits the wrong button with me.

 

[mreg376]

I disagree and I think the second video was well done. I have gone through the same things, when you spin your wheels and take hours and effort and miles just to get back to where you should have been in the first place, all thanks to the incompetence of a vendor or service provider, and an epilog-type video putting the entire experience in perspective is appropriate. Any part can fail, but if the manufacturer subjects the customer to such a horrendous repair experience the customer is certainly entitled to pick apart even single factor involved in what he went through. I would venture a guess that if his IMP was fixed properly and professionally the first time and if he did any video at all he would have done one about the problems with the VESA mount and that would have been the end. Apple brought all of this, every second of every video, on itself.