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% of new iMacs with problems seems to be inordinately...high?

Only if you aren't one of the many, many, many people who suffered through the iMac G5 growing pains.

I lived through that, and did it twice (once with a first generation iMac G5 and once with a second generation iMac G5).

I couldn't believe how much time those machines spent in the shop. And, even worse, was the amount of company I had (as in it being very common).

I thought for sure Apple would have gotten the issues worked out by the second revision. But, the second revision was just as much trouble as the first. But, of course, Apple always says an issue affect only a small percentage of the systems. But, naturally, they are going to say that. What company is going to come out and publicly announce that 95% of it's products shipments in a given line were duds?

Note, I'm not saying it was 95%. Just using that to illustrate.

Anyway, if you've been through Apple's duds, then you'll see this is pretty normal. If you've only had the pleasure of dealing with their better systems, then this experience will come as a shock.

It sure makes me glad I didn't go the iMac route this time. I was tossing between the new iMac and the Mac Pro. Glad I chose the Mac Pro. It's been the best Apple I've owned in years.
 
IMHO, these machines run a bit hotter than they should. I'm sure that the problems are beyond just heat related and of couse any production electronics device as complicated as a computer can have unforseen issues. But in my years and years of PC tweaking, heat was ALWAYS the enemy. I think that Apple should adjust the Firmware for the upcoming release to bump up the fan speeds a bit.

I am using smcSmartFanControl and have bumped my fans up about 50% or so from stock/minimum (not 50% of the max setting, just 50% faster than the minimum RPM). The heat reduction is significant and the machine still runs EXTREMELY quiet.

Knock on wood I have not seen a single lock requiring a power cycle. I have also not installed the 1.1 update. I have done a ton of intensive things such as ripping with Shrink in Fusion XP while Handbraking in OS X, plenty of iMovie/iDVD stuff, etc. The machine has truly been ultra stable.

Anyway, just a thought... a silent machine is great an all but I prefer stability to complete silence. :)

QFT. I posted something to this effect in another thread, as suggestion for a member who was having problems (and of course never heard back from them as to whether it helped or not) ... Anyway my new 2.8GHz iMac is supposed to be delivered tomorrow, and the first app I'll be installing (after I re-format and re-install OSX, anyway) is smcFanControl2 ... I would rather have a slightly noisier computer that's stable than a perfectly quiet one that crashes every day. Apple could probably solve a lot of problems just by being slightly more aggressive with their fan speeds ...
 
I'm running a 24" aluminum iMac with 2GB for 7 weeks now. I installed the 1.1 update when it came out. I can also confirm this is not a universal issue with the hardware in the new machines because I have yet to experience a lockup. I run the machine 24/7 putting it in sleep mode when I'm away.

I hope Apple issues a fix for those experiencing this annoying problem though and am counting myself lucky not to have it.
 
Anyway my new 2.8GHz iMac is supposed to be delivered tomorrow, and the first app I'll be installing (after I re-format and re-install OSX, anyway) is smcFanControl2 ... I would rather have a slightly noisier computer that's stable than a perfectly quiet one that crashes every day. Apple could probably solve a lot of problems just by being slightly more aggressive with their fan speeds ...

SMC fan control won't solve issues with the computer crashing let alone increasing fan speeds. Where did you get that idea?
 
SMC fan control won't solve issues with the computer crashing let alone increasing fan speeds. Where did you get that idea?

Actually, the thread I had posted that recommendation to wasn't about crashing, per se - it was about video corruption (although for many people the two seem to go hand in hand). Since the screenshot posted showed video corruption exactly like what I have experienced in the past when trying to overclock my video RAM too much (resulting in overheating) I don't think it's that much of a stretch to conclude that heat may be at least part of the issue.

Heat is obviously a problem with the new iMacs, otherwise Apple wouldn't be underclocking the HD2600XT and calling it an HD2600Pro ... ;)
 
It sounded to me like Apple was saying this is a software issue so one would think everyone would sooner or later experience this issue.
Yep, one would think. However, my (early-production) 24" 2.4 GHz machine doesn't seem to have the problem -- even though all updates have been installed promptly, within 1-2 days of release. I'm currently running the latest-and-greatest bits, but never had a problem with the earlier updates, either.

Of course, I'm not complaining (well, at least not about freeze-ups), but it sure makes me skeptical of suggestions that the problem is entirely a software/driver issue. Smells like hardware is involved.

LK
 
Heat is obviously a problem with the new iMacs, otherwise Apple wouldn't be underclocking the HD2600XT and calling it an HD2600Pro ... ;)

There's no real heat issue with the iMacs. SMC fan control allows you to raise the level of the fans and keeps the iMac running very cool. If heat was such an issue Apple would have set the fans to run a bit faster, they just slow them down to keep the computer running near silent.

Are these your own creative theories saying that Apple calls the 2600XT a 2600Pro because they choose to underclock it due to heat? Huh?
They couldn't hide the name of the card. The model number from ATI shows up in System Profiler and the true name of the card shows up in Windows.
 
There's no real heat issue with the iMacs.

Right.

80-82C sounds reasonable for a power supply.

A HDD running at 63C when Seagate clearly indicates an operating temperature max of 60C ... ?

These are just two examples out of many available, as a forum search will easily turn up.

SMC fan control allows you to raise the level of the fans and keeps the iMac running very cool. If heat was such an issue Apple would have set the fans to run a bit faster, they just slow them down to keep the computer running near silent.

First of all, I'm aware of what SMCFanControl does. Second, I can't imagine why Apple would choose to run the fans at low speeds, I mean nobody is impressed by a quiet PC right? Of course when running the fans at speeds that low causes overheating (see above links) then I'd say increasing the speed using SMCFanControl is a reasonable option.

Are these your own creative theories saying that Apple calls the 2600XT a 2600Pro because they choose to underclock it due to heat? Huh?
Of course they are. Whose else would they be?

They couldn't hide the name of the card. The model number from ATI shows up in System Profiler and the true name of the card shows up in Windows.
Exactly my point. The cards show as up HD2600XT in Windows, yet Apple clearly refers to them as HD2600 Pros in their marketing. Can you think of any other reason to underclock a video card unless you were trying to keep temperatures under control in a system that already runs hot?
 
Exactly my point. The cards show as up HD2600XT in Windows, yet Apple clearly refers to them as HD2600 Pros in their marketing. Can you think of any other reason to underclock a video card unless you were trying to keep temperatures under control in a system that already runs hot?

Mavis, highly elevated heat temps have been on every computer I have ever owned, Mac or PC. I have been using Macs for years and each new one I buy ends up on the discussion boards with the ever-popular title,"My Mac is overheating"! Then the posters come up with all sorts of things saying that the heat will damage components or cause meltdowns or rendering the Mac defective.
None of this has ever happened yet heat is discussed on the boards as an "issue" when it's not. The iMacs especially shouldn't be concern to anyone really because you are sitting across from the computer so you don't feel the heat.
Apple does measure the amount of heat made by the CPU and hard discs and designs their computers accordingly.
Don't create a heat concern unless it causes a true defect or malfunction.

And yes, a quiet computer (fan wise) is a selling point. Search the boards and you will read about people saying the noise from the fans drive them nuts even though they have to put their ear close to hear them.
SMC fan control was really created for Apple notebooks because putting a hot laptop on your lap is not flattering but Apple uses passive cooling so it's not meant to be on your lap.
 
Mavis, highly elevated heat temps have been on every computer I have ever owned, Mac or PC. ... Then the posters come up with all sorts of things saying that the heat will damage components or cause meltdowns or rendering the Mac defective.
I've only had one PC with elevated HDD temps (two HDDs running at about 55C under load, 52C idle) and wouldn't you know it, that's the only PC I ever owned that suffered from repeated HDD failures. If you Google the topic, you'll find tons of sites that advise monitoring the HDD temps and keeping them below 55C. If the iMac's HDD is running at 63C, that most certainly is a cause for concern and it will DEFINATELY shorten the life of drive. That is not an opinion, it is a fact. But don't take my word for it, do some research for yourself and you'll see that I'm not just making it up.

The iMacs especially shouldn't be concern to anyone really because you are sitting across from the computer so you don't feel the heat.
I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely NO sense to me. You're saying that if i can't feel it, I shouldn't worry about it? I couldn't feel my PC's HDDs overheating (as they were in the tower under my desk), and yet I had to replace the drives three times due to failure. As soon as I removed one of the drives, and added a fan under the HDD chassis, the problem disappeared. Still couldn't FEEL the heat, but that makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.
 
I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely NO sense to me. You're saying that if i can't feel it, I shouldn't worry about it? I couldn't feel my PC's HDDs overheating (as they were in the tower under my desk), and yet I had to replace the drives three times due to failure. As soon as I removed one of the drives, and added a fan under the HDD chassis, the problem disappeared. Still couldn't FEEL the heat, but that makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.

No, I meant that most people that complain about the heat in computers is because they generally CAN feel it. Example, laptops for the obvious reason and desktop towers because they can warm a room quite a bit. As I mentioned before all my Macs have literally replaced my the central heating in my house but not one of them has had component failure and I play hard with them. I game a lot, I do a lot of heavy editing and encoding causing the fans to go on high but again never an issue.
If you are not comfortable with the heat on your Mac just enjoy the fruits of SMC fan control because Apple may not send an update to correct the fan speeds to your liking.
 
No, I meant that most people that complain about the heat in computers is because they generally CAN feel it. Example, laptops for the obvious reason and desktop towers because they can warm a room quite a bit. As I mentioned before all my Macs have literally replaced my the central heating in my house but not one of them has had component failure and I play hard with them. I game a lot, I do a lot of heavy editing and encoding causing the fans to go on high but again never an issue.
If you are not comfortable with the heat on your Mac just enjoy the fruits of SMC fan control because Apple may not send an update to correct the fan speeds to your liking.
I see what your point. I will definately be using SMC Fan Control to boost my fan speeds as I'd rather live with a slightly noisier computer than have to worry about component failures. And at the temps some people are reporting, it's not a matter of IF, but WHEN the components will fail. If there are people with HDD's running at 63C (which is beyond thermal design limitations) I wouldn't at all be surprised to start hearing about HDD failures on the new iMacs en masse in about a year, year and a half, tops. If the hard drives are running that hot, Apple obviously needs to do something to correct the problem. Boosting fan speed is an easy solution, and while I have no problem using SMCFC to take care of the issue, many people will NOT be using it. This is a design problem that needs to be addressed by Apple, directly - that's all I'm saying. ;)
 
Drm

I don't have a comment about fans, but about quality control. I'm one of the people horribly inconvenienced by the problems Front Row has with DRM problems. If you haven't encountered it, you are lucky. But, Front Row will tell you that an mp3 that you ripped from your own collection is not authorized to play on your computer. Anyone heard if this gets fixed in Leopard?
 
Sony

I don't have a comment about fans, but about quality control. I'm one of the people horribly inconvenienced by the problems Front Row has with DRM problems. If you haven't encountered it, you are lucky. But, Front Row will tell you that an mp3 that you ripped from your own collection is not authorized to play on your computer. Anyone heard if this gets fixed in Leopard?

Was this off of a Sony CD?
 
After reformatting the hard drive and re-installing OS X on my iMac--and not installing any updates at all (apart from iTunes)--my iMac has been running smoothly, without any glitches what-so-ever.

I don't think I'm gonna update anything until Apple releases the fix they are apparently working so hard on creating.


Now for the details:

On Friday night my iMac locked up yet again, but after a forced restart it only booted up in single-user mode (black screen with "localhost :/ root#"). My hard drive was heavily corrupted (neither fsck nor Disk Utility wanted to do anything), and b/c I wasn't sure if was a hardware issue or not, and rather pissed after having all those problems lately, I took it to the Apple store at around 3am where the genius said "uh-oh" and told me to back up my data.

Yeah, thanks dude. That's a great idea. Now what about my broken computer?

Denying that other customers were having problems with their iMacs, actually asking me to identify people having similar problems as I (!) (and saying "oh, the forums are full of liars"), he offered me to buy an external FW drive (hah!) and told me to bring the computer back if an erase and install didn't do the trick.

Well, come Sunday night and thanks to Disk Warrior I was able to copy all the stuff I needed (that I didn't already have backed up). Then I re-installed OS X (see above), and everything has been fine since then.

Thanks to a phonecall to Apple Care, I was finally able to laugh at this whole thing. See, I mounted my iMac as a target disk on my Macbook. Browsing the drive either slowed my Macbook down to a crawl or resulted in the iMac unmounting, so I figured that I'd try to use the Terminal to copy files and just skip the GUI of the OS. After unsuccessful googling and forum searching, I decided to call Apple Care and ask for their help.

Some replies I got:
"The Terminal...? Yeah, uh, what's your question again?"
"Uh, ok, so, uh, Target Disk, is it connected to your computer? You might need a FireWire disk instead."
"So, how are you connecting your iMac to your iMac, er, I mean Macbook? Through a USB cable, right?"
(I replied "uh...no...FireWire is the only way to, uhm, can I speak to someone else please?")

20 minutes of this, and--this is the best part--the guy asked me to wait for a few minutes while he talked to his supervisor, then came back and said:

"My supervisor said that you should try the discussion forum at Apple.com".

Right. Hey, customer, stop asking us all those questions. Go google it.
 
I don't have a comment about fans, but about quality control. I'm one of the people horribly inconvenienced by the problems Front Row has with DRM problems. If you haven't encountered it, you are lucky. But, Front Row will tell you that an mp3 that you ripped from your own collection is not authorized to play on your computer. Anyone heard if this gets fixed in Leopard?

My ripped collection of music in iTunes plays perfectly in Front Row.
 
Using a 20" 2.4GHz and I have had random lock ups maybe 3 times in one month of ownership. Can't say I'm happy about it but I hardly think its worth so much flaming. Its an extremely powerful machine with a brand new collection of hardware working together.

They issued one update already that has somewhat fixed the problem. Im sure we can expect another update once they iron out this issue.

How could you possibly argue that they are turning into Microsoft?

Is Apple years behind in R&D? No.
Is Apple making us pay to improve this stability? No.
Can we expect this to NEVER improve? Absolutely not.
 
Is Apple making us pay to improve this stability? No.
Can we expect this to NEVER improve? Absolutely not.

Um... Yes. You are paying for them to improve stability. I've been through the iMac routine before. I purchased one revision after the other as they improved stability and reliability in each one.

It took them 3 revisions of the iMac G5 to get a model that would finally work and not spend all it's time in the shop. That was basically a 2 year progression towards reliability and stability. And, Apple made us pay for each revision rather than totally fixing the issues with the first and second revisions.

They did replace a lot of hardware. But, they never actually fixed the problem (which was essentially a design flaw). So, many people were just simply limped past the warranty period.

If the issue with the new machines proves to be a hardware design issue, it will remain to be seen whether Apple will repeat it's prior history and just limp the current users through their warranty while releasing a new and improved model without the issue for new buyers. Or, if they will do the right thing and replace the defective part.

A software patch that prevents the symptom of a bad component is not really a fix. It is merely something that makes your system run slightly differently (which may not provide you full performance) so that a symptom is masked or doesn't present itself as noticeable. It doesn't remove the problem. It just covers it up.

Similar to if I take my car to the shop and say that every time I hit 60 miles an hour, the thing starts vibrating and shaking all over the place. So, the mechanic installs a governor on the motor that limits my top speed to 59 Miles per hour. Sure, I'll never see the issue again. But, performance is reduced and the problem isn't truly fixed.

You can't fix hardware defects with software patches. You can hide them. But, you can't fix them.

As for expecting things to improve... I'm sure that in typical Apple fashion, the next revision / model will be improved. The previous buyers will simply be handled in a way that minimizes Apple's expense in getting them through the warranty period.

I learned my lesson with Apple and the iMacs. That's one machine that's just best avoided.

They are very tempting, and I really like them. And, every time they come out with a new model I almost buy one. But, it's the history that seems to repeat itself (which I endured through several revisions), that eventually stops me. Glad I skipped this revision again since it seems lots of issues have arisen (like the issues with the screen yellowing, and the lockup glitches).
 
That was way too much to quote.

Your analogy is not entirely accurate. Software patches cannot fix hardware problems but they absolutely can fix hardware cooperation with other hardware...

THIS is exatcly what we are talking about in the iMac. Remember it is the software that manipulates the hardware and provides the active link between hardware components. It requires a lot of testing to arrive at this link to begin with. Sometimes the first configuration is not perfect and that can be fixed after future testing.

Its just a matter of when the iMac ships during this process. In this circumstance it appears to have shipped premature to resolution of this issue. Really not a big deal at all. They are brilliant machines that belong on many users desks. They are considerably better than any other comprable product and this issue is minute at best.
 
After receiving this new 2,8GHz iMac yesterdaymorning, I had some issues with freezing, but not that much. After installing the updates, it froze after a minute of activity (even opening a windows would freeze it). I then reinstalled OS X (not a format) and didn't run any updates. The computer has been running rather smoothly ever since, it even survived the night and came straight of sleepmode without freezing. I said rather, because I just had a freeze while doing some basic painting in Photoshop with Illustrator open and iTunes playing. Dunno what caused the problem really, but it's been going smoothly again so far.

I sure as hell hope Apple shows up soon with a decent fix for this, since it's obviously a driver/software failure. I love this machine, but the (now very few (for me at least)) freezing is a thorn in the eye.
 
After receiving this new 2,8GHz iMac yesterdaymorning, I had some issues with freezing, but not that much. After installing the updates, it froze after a minute of activity (even opening a windows would freeze it). I then reinstalled OS X (not a format) and didn't run any updates. The computer has been running rather smoothly ever since, it even survived the night and came straight of sleepmode without freezing. I said rather, because I just had a freeze while doing some basic painting in Photoshop with Illustrator open and iTunes playing. Dunno what caused the problem really, but it's been going smoothly again so far.

I sure as hell hope Apple shows up soon with a decent fix for this, since it's obviously a driver/software failure. I love this machine, but the (now very few (for me at least)) freezing is a thorn in the eye.
That's so odd. I just got my iMac too, they must be from the same batch - and I haven't had any freezing at all. :confused:

The very first thing I did when I got the iMac was to reformat and partition my drive, install OSX + iLife, and then install all of the updates. No freezing. After installing SMCFanControl2 I then installed all of my other apps (FCS2, Adobe Design Premier, etc) and finally, started importing my data. I was rather impressed in fact, when my friend came over and I was showing him my new toy ;) I had Photoshop open with a 100+ layer document, Lightroom open with my 15,000+ RAW file library displayed, plus iMovie with a bunch of HD video loaded and iTunes playing some music with cover flow open. Not a single hiccup with all of that going on; my friend was blown away that Expose worked so smoothly with all that stuff open, not to mention all of the apps functioning perfectly with no stutters - it was very cool.

I find it really odd that some iMacs are experiencing freezing, while others (like mine) are running smooth as silk. I mean, I've really been putting this thing through its paces, but it has yet to let me down. I am running my fans at about 2x their normal (idle) speeds, so I wonder if some of the problems people are having are related to heat ... ?
 
I find it really odd that some iMacs are experiencing freezing, while others (like mine) are running smooth as silk. I mean, I've really been putting this thing through its paces

I hope you are not too disappointed:D
Mines great too, no freezing. It's good that Apple has addressed it but I'm curious as to why it's happening to others. Oh well there will be a fix soon.
 
These problems could be something as simple as a glob of thermal paste. I think it was Macbooks or ibooks that had terrible applications of thermal paste and we saw here at Rumors. Apple didnt say a word for months on that one if I recall. We really dont know what qualifications if any a factory worker in communist china needs to build Macs? To me its sounding more and more like hardware and not software but I could be wrong. Still I think ill just keep waiting for a answer or perhaps new powermacs show. Patience is a virtue when dealing with this technology but its sure nice to be able to open a machine for yourself and see if it is something as simple as to much or little thermal paste.:apple:
 
I would say that, yes, Apple is becoming Microsoft. I'm just hoping they can catch themselves before they slip too far.
 
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