In 3 years, 50% of all computers capable of playing AAA games will be Macs

[jeanlain]

It’s easy to confuse those, but not for you, right?

I didn't say that, and I don't know why you take it this way.
I'm just saying that senttoschool apparently took the article as evidence that he/she was right all along about Apple's strategy, that the non-believer were proven wrong, etc.
I didn't mind that post, as he/she is otherwise an interesting contributor (and I don't disagree that Apple should invest more in AAA gaming). I just reminded him/her that MacRumors provided no proof. GPT, etc. are no proof that Apple will be pushing AAA gaming harder and that their strategy will be revealed on Monday.

 

[jeanlain]

Afterall, Game Porting Kit should make it a lot easier for AAA devs to port some older games over.

Windows developer didn't need D3DMetal to evaluate the potential of Macs. There is the shader conversion tool that could be helpful, but as Metal is now a mature API, I don't think Apple any further improvement in the developer tools can make a big difference. Keep in mind that most Unity and UE games aren't ported to Mac even though these IDE can build Mac executables. Developers just don't care about the Mac and don't want to support our platform.

What can change that is Apple realeasing a gaming-focused product, like a game console, and/or aquiring a couple of major games studios. Regarding the latter, Apple have been pretty clear that they won't. Their message has always been "we build the tools for game developers", which I take it as "don't expect us to develop games".

 

[XboxEvolved]

So consider this, from M1 on up, the Mac platform is at least capable of delivering PS4/Xbox One quality visuals that are incredibly fluid and consistent. If nothing else, RE: Village has completely proven this and the fact that the Nintendo Switch, despite aging is popular with both hardcore and casual gamers to the point that it has sold more than the combined sales of PS5 and XSX/S shows that you don’t necessarily need bleeding age visuals to get consumers to buy. For Apple and Macs to actually be considered a gaming platform, Apple needs to do a couple of things, and instead of half ass those things like they did in the past stick with it. Here is a list of things that I think are reasonably feasible for them to do:

1) Forge a partnership with Microsoft that allows their Xbox streaming platform to be native to Apple hardware, as well as a commitment to make upcoming Activision-Blizzard titles day and date with the PC counterparts. This will help keep regulators off of both their asses.

2) Come to an agreement with Epic so that development is better encouraged on Apple platforms, and allow games such as Fortnite back on Apple platforms

3) Announce partnerships with several developers to have their games day and date with PC counterparts. Ones that come to mind that I could easily see Apple working with are PlayStation Studios, Capcom, UbiSoft

4) Expand the Apple Arcade service or invest more into it for some REAL games.

5) Create an Apple Gaming Studios—this wouldn’t only bolster their current platforms but might even be imperative for the success of the Vision platform

6) At this upcoming event unveil a major game like oooh GTA6? (I WILL LOSE MY MIND). This isn’t exactly unheard of. Years ago Apple had done this as well, it just didn’t exactly work out for them (see Halo, Rage, Quake)

 

[GrumpyCoder]

I don't know. I expect them to mention Death Stranding and Resident evil games, and perhaps Assassin's Creed.

Wouldn't rule out an announcement in the form of a playable teaser game. We'll see what they managed to get ready in time.

 

[Irishman]

I didn't say that, and I don't know why you take it this way.
I'm just saying that senttoschool apparently took the article as evidence that he/she was right all along about Apple's strategy, that the non-believer were proven wrong, etc.
I didn't mind that post, as he/she is otherwise an interesting contributor (and I don't disagree that Apple should invest more in AAA gaming). I just reminded him/her that MacRumors provided no proof. GPT, etc. are no proof that Apple will be pushing AAA gaming harder and that their strategy will be revealed on Monday.

And yet we still don’t know any more about the Mac Rumors article and how it fell short, in your view.

It just feels like pulling teeth to get you to offer anything. And your paragraph above doesn’t move the needle, as far as dealing in facts goes. You’re working twice as hard while yielding half as much.

Last time that I will ask the question, because it seems like the only conclusion I can form is that you haven’t read the article in question.

 

[senttoschool]

I didn't say that, and I don't know why you take it this way.
I'm just saying that senttoschool apparently took the article as evidence that he/she was right all along about Apple's strategy, that the non-believer were proven wrong, etc.
I didn't mind that post, as he/she is otherwise an interesting contributor (and I don't disagree that Apple should invest more in AAA gaming). I just reminded him/her that MacRumors provided no proof. GPT, etc. are no proof that Apple will be pushing AAA gaming harder and that their strategy will be revealed on Monday.

I think I was right about Apple's strategy as soon as Game Porting Kit was announced.

I don't want to be cocky. I think there's clearly still a long way to go. I was very early to make that prediction 3 years ago. 80% of the repliers thought I was crazy. But I had a strong feeling at the time that Apple was about to get serious about AAA games. Is it as serious as Microsoft or Sony? No, not yet. But Apple wasn't that serious about mobile games in the beginning too and it somehow grew an absolute giant mobile gaming empire.

 

[diamond.g]

I think I was right about Apple's strategy as soon as Game Porting Kit was announced.

I don't want to be cocky. I think there's clearly still a long way to go. I was very early to make that prediction 3 years ago. 80% of the repliers thought I was crazy. But I had a strong feeling at the time that Apple was about to get serious about AAA games. Is it as serious as Microsoft or Sony? No, not yet. But Apple wasn't that serious about mobile games in the beginning too and it somehow grew an absolute giang mobile gaming empire.

IMO Apple will only ever become as serious as Sony/Microsoft when they have their own first party studio. Which someone here said they were never going to do.

Especially if folks think they will start competing in the "console" space. First party games are important.

 

[diamond.g]

And yet we still don’t know any more about the Mac Rumors article and how it fell short, in your view.

It just feels like pulling teeth to get you to offer anything. And your paragraph above doesn’t move the needle, as far as dealing in facts goes. You’re working twice as hard while yielding half as much.

Last time that I will ask the question, because it seems like the only conclusion I can form is that you haven’t read the article in question.

Is it a fact that there is a Japanese game studio (other than Capcom and Kojima's Studio) that is working with Apple and that is why the presentation is later than Apples usual ones?

 

[senttoschool]

IMO Apple will only ever become as serious as Sony/Microsoft when they have their own first party studio. Which someone here said they were never going to do.

Especially if folks think they will start competing in the "console" space. First party games are important.

No, the difference is that Apple will sell Mac computers, iPads, and Vision Pros with or without AAA games. Apple will sell iPhones with or without mobile phones.

Meanwhile, it's hard to get people to buy your gaming console unless you sell exclusive games.

 

[diamond.g]

No, the difference is that Apple will sell Mac computers, iPads, and Vision Pros with or without AAA games. Apple will sell iPhones with or without mobile phones.

Meanwhile, it's hard to get people to buy your gaming console unless you sell exclusive games.

Why should I buy your console when I can get the game on another platform. Just like for macOS why should I buy a game on macOS when I can get it on PC (and often times the PC version have features missing on the macOS version like RT [maybe until tonight]).


It is why I ask why would Apple buying Nintendo help Nintendo? They have shown that while hardware can help sell games, good games (and exclusive IP) matters more.

 

[senttoschool]

Just like for macOS why should I buy a game on macOS when I can get it on PC (and often times the PC version have features missing on the macOS version like RT [maybe until tonight]).

Because most people own only one computer.

Do we need to write 3-4 pages talking about the differences between a game console and a computer?

 

[diamond.g]

Because most people own only one computer.

Do we need to write 3-4 pages talking about the differences between a game console and a computer?

It was an example. I'd think the people that have families and can afford Apple computers probably has more than 1 computer in their house.

Eh, there are (waay) more Apple Silicon Macs than PS5's.

 

[diamond.g]

To be clear I want to see Apple step more into the space, and without buying EA or Ubisoft, having a good first party library is the next best thing.

 

[senttoschool]

It was an example. I'd think the people that have families and can afford Apple computers probably has more than 1 computer in their house.

Eh, there are (waay) more Apple Silicon Macs than PS5's.

Yes, they might have another Apple Silicon computer.

Yes, there are already way more Apple Silicon Macs than PS5s. Hence, the original point of this thread. Volume counts. Yes, people buy PS5s to play games and most people don't buy Macs to play games. But at some point, the numbers will just start to make sense for developers.

To be clear I want to see Apple step more into the space, and without buying EA or Ubisoft, having a good first party library is the next best thing.

The only company that makes sense in terms of branding for Apple to buy is Nintendo. That's probably not happening anytime soon or ever. I just don't think Apple needs to make first party AAA games to attract other AAA games to get ported - unless Microsoft buys all the competition.

 

[diamond.g]

Yes, they might have another Apple Silicon computer.

Yes, there are already way more Apple Silicon Macs than PS5s. Hence, the original point of this thread. Volume counts. Yes, people buy PS5s to play games and most people don't buy Macs to play games. But at some point, the numbers will just start to make sense for developers.



The only company that makes sense in terms of branding for Apple to buy is Nintendo. That's probably not happening anytime soon or ever. I just don't think Apple needs to make first party AAA games to attract other AAA games to get ported - unless Microsoft buys all the competition.

Why is Nintendo the only company that makes sense from a branding perspective?

 

[senttoschool]

Why is Nintendo the only company that makes sense from a branding perspective?

1. Take EA for example. EA is one of the most hated companies in the world. #5 out of top 20 in a 2020 survey. Meanwhile, Apple has carefully created one of the greatest, if not the greatest brand in the world. Nintendo has also carefully created one of the best brands in the world.
2. Both Nintendo and Apple are family-brands. Conversely, a company like EA games makes some very mature games and will bring along some hardcore gamers. It also makes a ton of gambling-based games.
3. If Apple buys a large gaming company, they'll force that company to stop making games for other platforms - potentially anticompetitive. The regulatory scrutiny will be very high around the world. Nintendo only makes games for themselves.
4. Apple devices + Mario, Zelda, Pikachu? Come on. It's a match made in heaven. Apple devices + Battlefield, Madden, Apex Legends? Meh.

 

[jeanlain]

Last time that I will ask the question (...)

What's your question?
I've read the article several times. Macrumors speculates that "Apple Event [will] Emphasize High-End Gaming on Mac" based on:
- GPTK (really not that big of a deal for AAA game development on macOS)
- Game mode (a very minor tweak to macOS)
- Hardware Ray tracing (mostly useful for 3D rendering applications like Blender)
- Partnership with Japanese developers (yeah, but what's new here?)
- The time of the event (dubious argument, as it's likely pre-recorded)

I'm not convinced. How does any of these arguments point to this event in particular (except the last one)?
This is a Mac event, I expect it to focus less on gaming than an iPhone event.

 

[diamond.g]

Only 6 more hours!

 

[Irishman]

What's your question?
I've read the article several times. Macrumors speculates that "Apple Event [will] Emphasize High-End Gaming on Mac" based on:
- GPTK (really not that big of a deal for AAA game development on macOS)
- Game mode (a very minor tweak to macOS)
- Hardware Ray tracing (mostly useful for 3D rendering applications like Blender)
- Partnership with Japanese developers (yeah, but what's new here?)
- The time of the event (dubious argument, as it's likely pre-recorded)

I'm not convinced. How does any of these arguments point to this event in particular (except the last one)?
This is a Mac event, I expect it to focus less on gaming than an iPhone event.

My question is the same now as it was before: Can you please provide quotes FROM the article and links to it for those of us here to see if your taste passes the smell test? Because, as of now, all WE have is your bullet points and claims that change over time.

 

[Homy]

My question is the same now as it was before: Can you please provide quotes FROM the article and links to it for those of us here to see if your taste passes the smell test? Because, as of now, all WE have is your bullet points and claims that change over time.

It's this article from 5 days ago. There is no hard evidence/leaks there of focus on AAA gaming, just rumors. So they're right in a sense but if HW RT is presented we'll definitly see some games. We'll find out i three hours.

Apple Event Next Week Likely to Emphasize High-End Gaming on Mac

Apple yesterday announced that it will be holding an online event on Monday, October 30 starting at 5 p.m. Pacific Time, and there are several...

www.macrumors.com

 

[diamond.g]

It's this article from 5 days ago. There is no hard evidence/leaks there of focus on AAA gaming, just rumors. So they're right in a sense but if HW RT is presented we'll definitly see some games. We'll find out i three hours.

Apple Event Next Week Likely to Emphasize High-End Gaming on Mac

Apple yesterday announced that it will be holding an online event on Monday, October 30 starting at 5 p.m. Pacific Time, and there are several...

www.macrumors.com

I wonder if it is a Capcom game they will show off with RT. The iOS version is missing RT according to the other thread. Maybe they will show it with Death Stranding? Which would be cool since the Windows version is missing it. Not sure if the Decima Engine has RT support.

 

[Homy]

What's your question?
I've read the article several times. Macrumors speculates that "Apple Event [will] Emphasize High-End Gaming on Mac" based on:
- GPTK (really not that big of a deal for AAA game development on macOS)
- Game mode (a very minor tweak to macOS)
- Hardware Ray tracing (mostly useful for 3D rendering applications like Blender)
- Partnership with Japanese developers (yeah, but what's new here?)
- The time of the event (dubious argument, as it's likely pre-recorded)

I'm not convinced. How does any of these arguments point to this event in particular (except the last one)?
This is a Mac event, I expect it to focus less on gaming than an iPhone event.

While I agree that MR speculates without any hard evidence I find some of your points strange.

HW RT is a major marketing point for PC gaming and Apple just recently showcased A17 Pro's gaming performance with Resident Evil Village, Resident Evil 4 and Assassin's Creed Mirage and emphasized its ray tracing capabilities. If we get M3 now we can be sure Apple will demo some more Mac games with desktop RT performance.

Regarding a possible partnership you really mean a new partner like Sony, Fromsoftware, Konami or Square Enix bringing games like Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Days Gone, Elden Ring, Sekiro, Armored Core VI, Bloodborne, Dark Souls, Metal Gear or Final Fantasy to Mac wouldn’t be anything news worthy?

You expect less focus on gaming on a Mac event where possible gaming HW with ray tracing are expected? Have you forgotten the past Mac events where Apple has focused on Mac gaming?

 

[jeanlain]

Regarding a possible partnership you really mean a new partner like Sony, Fromsoftware, Konami or Square Enix bringing games like Horizon Zero Dawn, Spider-Man, God of War, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Days Gone, Elden Ring, Sekiro, Armored Core VI, Bloodborne, Dark Souls, Metal Gear or Final Fantasy to Mac wouldn’t be anything news worthy?

It would, but there's not evidence of such partnerships. As of now, we have 2 games from Capcom and one from Kojima studios.

 

[jeanlain]

HW RT is presented we'll definitly see some games.

That would require games supporting RT on macOS. We're not sure that any such game is ready for a demo, but we do have rendering apps supporting Metal RT. Blender in particular.

 

[diamond.g]

That would require games supporting RT on macOS. We're not sure that any such game is ready for a demo, but we do have rendering apps supporting Metal RT. Blender in particular.

I'd think for games Capcom is the closest to having native. I am not sure if MoltenVK supports RT, if it did then Metro Exodus EE would be ideal as none of the Capcom games use it in an obvious way.

As far as I know none of the other Japanese developers are running stuff with RT