Instant on NOT instant

[bowlerman625]

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I'm sort of befuddled why this thread is even here to begin with?

That makes 2 of us!

 

[LinkMx]

I guess some people always find something to complain about. For people that don't get it, they whole point of the "30 days of sleep time" is that you can put it to sleep when you're not using it instead of turning it off and the battery won't be depleted as fast as on another macbooks, it doesn't mean that you are going to leave it asleep for 30 days, so basically it works like an iPad where you don't have to turn it off when you're not using it.

 

[jimboutilier]

The default behavior of most Macs for quite some time has been something called a smart sleep when closing the lid. RAM would be written to disk and power to just about everything but RAM would be suspended. Depending on battery condition your Mac could stay this way and feature almost instant on when the lid was opened until the battery got low enough (from a few hours to a couple of days) that the machine would power off. After powering off if you opened the lid the machine would restore it's original state from the hibernate file which was not near instant but much shorter than a normal boot.

All the new MBAs add is a hibernate and writing of the hibernate file after one hour. So instant off and on for the first hour and pretty quick after that. Faster than a HD resume from hibernate due to the SSD. And improved battery life on sleep because it hibernates after an hour rather then when the battery gets low in sleep.

A preference pane based utility called smart sleep exists to give any Mac this type of behaviors and more. I've used it for years.

So yes, not much revolutionary about instant on over previous macs.

 

[Perdification]

Yeah true, probably the word "instant" is too much of an exaggeration by Apple, which is kinda misleading to some. But come to think of it, even instant noodles aren't exactly that "instant" too.

 

[mrdobo]

You guys have to be kidding. He never mentioned the 30 days of standby time. While that's a nice little addition, it wasn't a selling point. The "Instant-on" that the OP is concerned about IS a selling point. And now we have a crowd come on here and say crap like "why is this thread even here" and "some people will complain about anything"... that is pure crap.

First off, let's think a moment on why this thread would be here. Let's see, it's an MBA. This is an MBA forum. If you need any further explanation, wow.

Secondly, to the chap who said that people will complain about anything. Listen man, if we were talking a second or two, that may be one thing... and most of the time, that's what they mean by "instant-on". But 5 seconds isn't even CLOSE to instant. How can you possibly just brush this off?

Listen, I'm all for Apple products - the new MBA was my first purchase, but like Lifequest said... you guys just trying to swat this down as if he's complaining, you do make yourselves look bad. Taking pride in what you like does not equal turning a blind eye to an issue that clearly exists. They said instant-on, we're getting 5 second boot-ups at times. That's crappy. He's not saying he doesn't like it, he's just come to a place with other MBA owners looking to vent some frustration and see if he's an exception in regards to this problem. He was wrong. Instead he was greeted by a handful of fanboy's, looking to defend Apple's every last mistake. And if that's not the case, it's at least how you look to the general public.

 

[vraxtus]

You guys have to be kidding. He never mentioned the 30 days of standby time. While that's a nice little addition, it wasn't a selling point. The "Instant-on" that the OP is concerned about IS a selling point. And now we have a crowd come on here and say crap like "why is this thread even here" and "some people will complain about anything"... that is pure crap.

First off, let's think a moment on why this thread would be here. Let's see, it's an MBA. This is an MBA forum. If you need any further explanation, wow.

Secondly, to the chap who said that people will complain about anything. Listen man, if we were talking a second or two, that may be one thing... and most of the time, that's what they mean by "instant-on". But 5 seconds isn't even CLOSE to instant. How can you possibly just brush this off?

Listen, I'm all for Apple products - the new MBA was my first purchase, but like Lifequest said... you guys just trying to swat this down as if he's complaining, you do make yourselves look bad. Taking pride in what you like does not equal turning a blind eye to an issue that clearly exists. They said instant-on, we're getting 5 second boot-ups at times. That's crappy. He's not saying he doesn't like it, he's just come to a place with other MBA owners looking to vent some frustration and see if he's an exception in regards to this problem. He was wrong. Instead he was greeted by a handful of fanboy's, looking to defend Apple's every last mistake. And if that's not the case, it's at least how you look to the general public.

Entitlement is strong in this one. My work Dell takes 15+ seconds to turn on from sleep on average.

Just because it's advertised as instant doesn't mean it's going to be that way in every instance.

The point here is that people tend to point fingers at every little thing that might not live up to the standard "as advertised". They sure didn't advertise that the MBA's would be kernel panic free, or would have flawless displays, but some don't, and we complain about those?

 

[MartiNZ]

If this is a deal breaker then return the computer.

What interests me is: is going to sleep instant? Since '05 Macs have defaulted to safe sleep, which tends to annoy me as I feel like I shouldn't pick up my MBP for ~30 seconds after putting it to sleep as it is clearly messing with the HD. I guess with SSD it's not so big a deal, and I also understand these Airs don't even have a sleep light indicator, so it's harder to tell, but would be nice to know.

 

[bcaslis]

What interests me is: is going to sleep instant? Since '05 Macs have defaulted to safe sleep, which tends to annoy me as I feel like I shouldn't pick up my MBP for ~30 seconds after putting it to sleep as it is clearly messing with the HD. I guess with SSD it's not so big a deal, and I also understand these Airs don't even have a sleep light indicator, so it's harder to tell, but would be nice to know.

Since there is no sleep light, it's impossible to tell. But since there is no disk to spin down, it should be pretty fast. But also since there's no disk, I just shut it and go. No issues yet.

 

[ciaran00]

Get an iPad

 

[silverblack]

I couldn't care less about 30 days of standby battery life. I bought my computer to use it, not to let it sit around.

In other words, anyone know of a a series of terminal commands to keep the MBA from going into mode 1 sleep? The benefits outweigh the costs for me.

In theory, you can use "sudo pmset -a hibernatemode 0" to force the MBA into mode 0. This way, it won't dump the RAM image onto the FS. Technically, the MBA can't power off the RAM, otherwise it won't be able to "wake up".

 

[kdoug]

Anyone else experiencing the following problem? After the computer goes into "deep" sleep (~1+ hour of sleep), it takes around 5 seconds for the computer to return to its usable state. No trackpad or keyboard response for about 5 seconds.

Depends on how you define instant. Since you have no idea what it means let's take a page from Webster:
"an infinitesimal or very short space of time; a moment: They arrived not an instant too soon"

 

[mrdobo]

Entitlement is strong in this one. My work Dell takes 15+ seconds to turn on from sleep on average.

Just because it's advertised as instant doesn't mean it's going to be that way in every instance.

The point here is that people tend to point fingers at every little thing that might not live up to the standard "as advertised". They sure didn't advertise that the MBA's would be kernel panic free, or would have flawless displays, but some don't, and we complain about those?

Lol, let me get this straight. I buy a product that advertises a feature, and it doesn't deliver it. I in turn am somewhat frustrated, and you have the nerve to say that I'm entitled? Guess what bud - I am.

I understand that no one's product is perfect, though Apple gets damn near close a lot of the time (IMO). But when something doesn't work as Apple markets it to be, that deserves attention. Don't you agree?

Btw your argument about the display and kernel panic are completely moot points - they weren't addressed, but implied (as with most products). In this case, Apple specifically boasted about it being Instant-On.

 

[nicoritschel]

Is it not completely retarded that a MBA with INSTANT on takes more time to wake from sleep than a MBP without instant on?

I'm not here to bash apple. I love apple products. I've probably owned more apple products than many of you, but I'm not going to turn a blind eye to an obvious fault in the MBA.

 

[Carouser]

But 5 seconds isn't even CLOSE to instant. How can you possibly just brush this off?

By having a decent sense of perspective, and being able to distinguish things which actually warrant the slightest bit of care from those which don't? (oops, I meant 'fanboy', rabble rabble)

Complaining about a 5 second boot time because 'it's not instant like they said'. Wow. I've seen it all.

 

[vraxtus]

Lol, let me get this straight. I buy a product that advertises a feature, and it doesn't deliver it. I in turn am somewhat frustrated, and you have the nerve to say that I'm entitled? Guess what bud - I am.

I understand that no one's product is perfect, though Apple gets damn near close a lot of the time (IMO). But when something doesn't work as Apple markets it to be, that deserves attention. Don't you agree?

Btw your argument about the display and kernel panic are completely moot points - they weren't addressed, but implied (as with most products). In this case, Apple specifically boasted about it being Instant-On.

Clearly your argument is evidence enough that you've not been using Mac products for very long.

 

[ender21]

I understand the OP. I'm not jumping on it because I'm a zealot. I'm jumping on it because I think it's a silly complaint. Arguing over 5 seconds is ridiculous in my opinion if it gives you 30 days sleep which no other laptop provides.

Actually the issue is that it was marketed as something that it's failing to achieve. Having an issue with someone who complains about something where he is factually correct is where the "zealot" allusion would come into play. It doesn't kill me that my favorite football team sucks balls this year, but since you could say "well if that's the worst problem you have, then you're lucky" to that as well, does that mean I can't still be mad that my favorite team blows?

This is a Macbook Air thread, designed for just such discussions. That doesn't mean ANYONE's life is compromised irreparably merely because they're utiliziling this site for its intended purpose and asking if anyone else noticed the same thing. The assertion that the OP is shouting "the sky is falling" because his Air doesn't instant on as he believes it was marketed to is creating something out of thin air and putting words into others mouths....errr... fingertips.

If Apple didn't market instant-on, I doubt there'd be as many complaints.

 

[bcaslis]

This is an opinion that it doesn't achieve. Coming out of hibernation mode and being fully operational in 5 seconds or less to me is instant-on. And before hibernation mode it most definitely is instant-on.

And since you mention it's a discussion, I think those of us with the opinion that this is a silly complaint are just as valid as the OP.

 

[57004]

I have to agree with the topic starter here. While 5-seconds is not a hugely long time, the Apple website is very clear on what it promises:

All-Flash Storage.
Instant-on gratification.
If you have an iPod, iPhone, or iPad, you’re already taking advantage of all that flash storage has to offer: reliability, speed, and efficiency. So the decision to use flash storage in an ultracompact notebook like MacBook Air makes perfect sense. Flash allows you to access data quickly, and it gives MacBook Air the astonishing ability to remain in standby mode for up to 30 days. Which means your MacBook Air snaps to in an instant, whether you open it tomorrow, next week, or next month.

It clearly promises instant-on regardless of how long the macbook has been on standby. Of course it depends on what you mean by 'instant' but I wouldn't call 5 seconds instant myself either. If the delay is much longer after sleeping for an hour I don't think they should have phrased the last sentence like that. Also it references the iPad/iPod etc which do turn on from standby within a second.

 

[jimboutilier]

I have to agree with the topic starter here. While 5-seconds is not a hugely long time, the Apple website is very clear on what it promises:




It clearly promises instant-on regardless of how long the macbook has been on standby. Of course it depends on what you mean by 'instant' but I wouldn't call 5 seconds instant myself either. If the delay is much longer after sleeping for an hour I don't think they should have phrased the last sentence like that. Also it references the iPad/iPod etc which do turn on from standby within a second.

It also indicates thats its the flash storage thats delivering the difference. And indeed a resume from hibernate is many times faster on an SSD based machine like the MBA than on a MB/P with a conventional HD.

Instant oatmeal take a minute. Instant rice, 3 minutes. My instant on LCD TV's take more than 10 seconds to power on. My instant on cameras take 2-3 seconds in some cases. If you want to go back to a ram restore with no hibernate after an hour, get the smart sleep preference pane and configure it and you'll have "instant on" until your battery is dead (which still may be a couple days).

Agreed, Apple should fully disclose that "instant" may mean a couple seconds if sleeping for an hour and 5 seconds to wake from a deep sleep after an hour but relatively speaking this is pretty instant as the industry goes.

 

[HLdan]

Is it not completely retarded that a MBA with INSTANT on takes more time to wake from sleep than a MBP without instant on?

I'm not here to bash apple. I love apple products. I've probably owned more apple products than many of you, but I'm not going to turn a blind eye to an obvious fault in the MBA.

Actually you're wrong, because once the MBP goes into deep sleep it takes about 20+ seconds to restore back to the desktop.

 

[silverblack]

Actually you're wrong, because once the MBP goes into deep sleep it takes about 20+ seconds to restore back to the desktop.

No, he/she is not wrong. The exact words used were "wake from sleep" not from deep sleep or hibernation.

MBPs will NOT go into deep sleep by default setting set at factory. The default sleep mode is 3, and on MBPs, the RAM is powered constantly.

In MBA, mode 3 is modified to power off the RAM after some time (believed to be 1 hour) by factory setting. Hence, the 5 sec wake.

 

[KnightWRX]

No, he/she is not wrong. The exact words used were "wake from sleep" not from deep sleep or hibernation.

MBPs will NOT go into deep sleep by default setting set at factory. The default sleep mode is 3, and on MBPs, the RAM is powered constantly.

In MBA, mode 3 is modified to power off the RAM after some time (believed to be 1 hour) by factory setting. Hence, the 5 sec wake.

Just change the factory setting on the MBA and you get the same instant-on Apple has always had on their laptops. You lose the 30 days stand-by time though.

Look, I agree as much as the next guy that instant-on isn't instant. I also agree this marketing bullet point is quite disingenuous considering all Mac laptops have had this in forever. However, there's no denying Apple did quite a bit of work on the wake from deep sleep part and that is truely amazing couple with the 30 days of stand-by time.

 

[HLdan]

Unsubscribing.

 

[mrdobo]

Clearly your argument is evidence enough that you've not been using Mac products for very long.

I'm not sure what to take away from this comment... are you saying that Apple frequently doesn't quite deliver on features they claim to have?

 

[silverblack]

Just change the factory setting on the MBA and you get the same instant-on Apple has always had on their laptops. You lose the 30 days stand-by time though.

Would you care to enlighten us how to do this? In particular, still have MBA dumps the RAM info onto FS at upon sleep (like it does now in mode 3), but NOT power off the RAM after ~1 hour?