Instant on NOT instant

[mrdobo]

By having a decent sense of perspective, and being able to distinguish things which actually warrant the slightest bit of care from those which don't? (oops, I meant 'fanboy', rabble rabble)

Complaining about a 5 second boot time because 'it's not instant like they said'. Wow. I've seen it all.

The only thing I'm complaining about is the amount of blind acceptance in a product that doesn't deliver what was advertised. Hell, I experience this all the time with my MBA, and it's STILL leaps and bounds faster than any other Windows machine I've ever owned. I'm confident in saying that I never would have bothered to come on here and ask this question if it were just me - but I can absolutely see why someone would question Apple's claim. It's as simple as 5 =/= 0. Now obviously instant is a relative term, but in this case Apple made a direct comparison of this boot time compared to their iPhone and iPad, which do wake up from sleep instantaneously.

If you don't think the difference between 5 seconds and "instant" warrants any attention, then so be it. But it's pretty impressive that you're so taken back by the fact that someone would question that.

 

[BENJMNS]

The only thing I'm complaining about is the amount of blind acceptance in a product that doesn't deliver what was advertised. Hell, I experience this all the time with my MBA, and it's STILL leaps and bounds faster than any other Windows machine I've ever owned. I'm confident in saying that I never would have bothered to come on here and ask this question if it were just me - but I can absolutely see why someone would question Apple's claim. It's as simple as 5 =/= 0. Now obviously instant is a relative term, but in this case Apple made a direct comparison of this boot time compared to their iPhone and iPad, which do wake up from sleep instantaneously.

If you don't think the difference between 5 seconds and "instant" warrants any attention, then so be it. But it's pretty impressive that you're so taken back by the fact that someone would question that.

i see your point man. within the context of this thread, this forum, your contention has merit.

but in the big picture, when i get off this topic and go back to using my mba to do work, do fun things am i going to care enough to return it?

hell naw. there's no substitute in the market today. this is the top drawer for now.

 

[KnightWRX]

Would you care to enlighten us how to do this? In particular, still have MBA dumps the RAM info onto FS at upon sleep (like it does now in mode 3), but NOT power off the RAM after ~1 hour?

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/system_disk_utilities/smartsleep.html

You could've googled it. There are a few Terminal commands to do essentially the same thing.

Why you would want to butcher your stand-by time to save 2 seconds is beyond me though.

 

[Carouser]

The only thing I'm complaining about is the amount of blind acceptance in a product that doesn't deliver what was advertised.

Blind acceptance? I see qualified, reasonable acceptance. For the same reason (raised elsewhere in the thread, by others), I don't have an issue with instant coffee or instant noodles, or any other marketing hyperbole, or ambiguous terms.

It's as simple as 5 =/= 0. Now obviously instant is a relative term, but in this case Apple made a direct comparison of this boot time compared to their iPhone and iPad, which do wake up from sleep instantaneously.

If instant is a relative term, then 5 =/= 0 is irrelevant. Let's see where Apple made a direct comparison of boot time compared to iPhone and iPad:

All-Flash Storage. Instant-on gratification. If you have an iPod, iPhone, or iPad, you’re already taking advantage of all that flash storage has to offer: reliability, speed, and efficiency. So the decision to use flash storage in an ultracompact notebook like MacBook Air makes perfect sense. Flash allows you to access data quickly, and it gives MacBook Air the astonishing ability to remain in standby mode for up to 30 days. Which means your MacBook Air snaps to in an instant, whether you open it tomorrow, next week, or next month.

The first relevant claim they make: 'instant-on gratification'. MBA offers this, in my estimation, because I share your understanding that 'instant' is a relative term (they're also referring to the kind of gratification you get, not the literal boot-time)
Second claim they make: 'If you have an iPod, iPhone, or iPad, you’re already taking advantage of all that flash storage has to offer: reliability, speed, and efficiency.' Yup, this is still true, since anyone who owns these devices is taking advantage of the reliability, speed, and efficiency of flash (they didn't say they have comparable wake times here. If you infer that, that's your problem).
Third claim: 'MacBook Air snaps to in an instant'. See the first claim. Also, they say it 'snaps to', which is pretty vague. They don't say 'you can type on it in zero seconds'.

You've interpreted these claims to be more specific than they are and now hold the MBA to your over-interpretation.

If you don't think the difference between 5 seconds and "instant" warrants any attention, then so be it. But it's pretty impressive that you're so taken back by the fact that someone would question that.

Why is it impressive? 5 seconds before you can start typing, and Apple said in their ads 'instant'. What kind of privileged insular worldview thinks this 'grievance' is worth airing, especially when it's based on an inability to parse marketing-speak?

 

[nicoritschel]

I underestimated with my 5 seconds figure. It takes about as long to wake from sleep after 1 hour on my MBA as waking from hibernation on a sandforce-equipped MBP. So apple literally just forced MBAs into hibernation after 1 hour and they call it instant on? Hmmmm

 

[silverblack]

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/system_disk_utilities/smartsleep.html

You could've googled it. There are a few Terminal commands to do essentially the same thing.

I don't think Terminal would do the trick. Mode 3 the already is (or was?) the one that will write the RAM content to FS and keep the RAM powered. Yet, Apple altered it to deep sleep after 1 hour. So, as far as I can tell, I can't do this by switching modes in Terminal.

As for smart sleep, it don't know how it actually work mechanistically. If anyone knows this app, please share the information.

 

[vraxtus]

I'm not sure what to take away from this comment... are you saying that Apple frequently doesn't quite deliver on features they claim to have?

Ding ding, we have a winner!

 

[mrdobo]

Blind acceptance? I see qualified, reasonable acceptance. For the same reason (raised elsewhere in the thread, by others), I don't have an issue with instant coffee or instant noodles, or any other marketing hyperbole, or ambiguous terms.



If instant is a relative term, then 5 =/= 0 is irrelevant. Let's see where Apple made a direct comparison of boot time compared to iPhone and iPad:



The first relevant claim they make: 'instant-on gratification'. MBA offers this, in my estimation, because I share your understanding that 'instant' is a relative term (they're also referring to the kind of gratification you get, not the literal boot-time)
Second claim they make: 'If you have an iPod, iPhone, or iPad, you’re already taking advantage of all that flash storage has to offer: reliability, speed, and efficiency.' Yup, this is still true, since anyone who owns these devices is taking advantage of the reliability, speed, and efficiency of flash (they didn't say they have comparable wake times here. If you infer that, that's your problem).
Third claim: 'MacBook Air snaps to in an instant'. See the first claim. Also, they say it 'snaps to', which is pretty vague. They don't say 'you can type on it in zero seconds'.

You've interpreted these claims to be more specific than they are and now hold the MBA to your over-interpretation.



Why is it impressive? 5 seconds before you can start typing, and Apple said in their ads 'instant'. What kind of privileged insular worldview thinks this 'grievance' is worth airing, especially when it's based on an inability to parse marketing-speak?

We're going in circles with most of what's being said, so I'll leave most of this as is - we've both said our parts, and we disagree. Anyone in their right mind takes claims like these with a grain of salt (myself included). You however, seem to take them with a tablespoon or so. More power to you, I guess.

Oh and like I said, I love my MBA. It's my first Mac and it's one of the single most impressive pieces of hardware I've ever purchased. But I still don't think that the term instant should be used. Call it Warpboot or some other crap, but not instant if it isn't instant. That word may fly with coffee and noodles, but when it comes to computers and and the kind of hardware we're working with nowaday, if I buy something that's supposed to be instant, I'd like it to hold up (or come damn close) to it's claim.

And again, I'm still absolutely floored by your confusion as to why this was brought up. We're on a forum completely dedicated to this damn machine, where people talk about the most miniscule crap imaginable... well boot time is a major part of this computer - how the hell are we in the wrong for discussing one of the very few shortcomings of this computer, after many of us (or myself at least) have spent so much time giving praise to it? Progress is made by addressing an issue, not looking past it and shrugging it off.

 

[Hankster]

OMG 5 SECONDS

You should return it.

Agreed. Good Lord! Five seconds...all your important time lost.

Get over yourself. If five seconds is too long for you - return it. Please. I'd love to see it, even though you won't. So, how about you simply grow up and stop complaining for the sake of complaining and drawing attention to yourself.

 

[nicoritschel]

Obviously 5 seconds is not THAT big of a deal, but it's just principle.

I can't believe how many of you are simply defending apple and the fact that there is blatantly misguiding advertising because of your unconditional over-loyalty and inability to view something objectively.

I get it: 30 days of standby time with a pretty short wakeup time is pretty amazing. However, advertise it as such, don't deceive consumers.

 

[nicoritschel]

Agreed. Good Lord! Five seconds...all your important time lost.

Get over yourself. If five seconds is too long for you - return it. Please. I'd love to see it, even though you won't. So, how about you simply grow up and stop complaining for the sake of complaining and drawing attention to yourself.

If you've noticed, we've already established a solution to the problem, but anyways, this isn't anything worth returning my computer over. I really love it. A complaint however, is more than justified. Or am I not allowed to voice myself because I don't agree with many of you who will defend Apple till the end? Hmmm...

 

[mrdobo]

Agreed. Good Lord! Five seconds...all your important time lost.

Get over yourself. If five seconds is too long for you - return it. Please. I'd love to see it, even though you won't. So, how about you simply grow up and stop complaining for the sake of complaining and drawing attention to yourself.

This comment blows the intention of this thread completely out of proportion, and is the definition of a throwaway comment - it's like hearing the annoying kid ask you "Well then why don't you MARRY it" after you said you love something. The OP simply made and observation and expressed his concern about something that Apple's claims didn't follow through with.

Funny you should say grow up... I suggest you take your own advice.

 

[Carouser]

Obviously 5 seconds is not THAT big of a deal, but it's just principle.

Here's a better principle to adhere to: worry about things which matter.

I can't believe how many of you are simply defending apple and the fact that there is blatantly misguiding advertising because of your unconditional over-loyalty and inability to view something objectively.

Blatantly misguiding? I parsed the ad above and it didn't say what you think it said. Apparently I need to infer things which aren't there in order to see the world objectively.

I get it: 30 days of standby time with a pretty short wakeup time is pretty amazing. However, advertise it as such, don't deceive consumers.

This 'short wakeup time' is, by any reasonable definition, 'instant-on'.

 

[mrdobo]

If you've noticed, we've already established a solution to the problem, but anyways, this isn't anything worth returning my computer over. I really love it. A complaint however, is more than justified. Or am I not allowed to voice myself because I don't agree with many of you who will defend Apple till the end? Hmmm...

100% agreed man. Glad to see people that can be impartial when looking at a product, and not completely one way or the other. This place is like Fox News or MSNBC (depending on your politcal orientation)... completely biased most of the time. Though there are a handful of genuinely helpful people with useful views... they're why I stay.

 

[fyrefly]

I underestimated with my 5 seconds figure. It takes about as long to wake from sleep after 1 hour on my MBA as waking from hibernation on a sandforce-equipped MBP. So apple literally just forced MBAs into hibernation after 1 hour and they call it instant on? Hmmmm

That's *exactly* what they do, and that's exactly what 100s of reviews have said the new MBA does. Did you read reviews before purchasing? Or just go on blind faith at Apple's (notoriously hyperbolic) advertising claims?

(Also, no-one has a Sandforce equipped MBP that hasn't done a DIY after-market upgrade, so for an Apple-shipping Product, the MBA is unique.)

Of course it's not "instant". Just like the iPad isn't exactly "Magical" - it doesn't do any wizarding... it can't transform your cat into a dog, etc...

Apple uses Hyperbole in their marketing/advertising *all the time*. You can take qualms with it, I totally understand. But to be part of the Apple Eco-system is to be subject to Steve's Reality Distortion Field from time to time.

 

[nicoritschel]

Here's a better principle to adhere to: worry about things which matter.

So deception is okay on a small scale?

Blatantly misguiding? I parsed the ad above and it didn't say what you think it said. Apparently I need to infer things which aren't there in order to see the world objectively.

Go watch the keynote please.

This 'short wakeup time' is, by any reasonable definition, 'instant-on'.

Not when it takes nearly as much time as waking from a MBP w/ SSD from HIBERNATION....

 

[KnightWRX]

This 'short wakeup time' is, by any reasonable definition, 'instant-on'.

The fact is, "Instant-On" isn't anything new. I pointed this out on day 1 after the keynote, Mac laptops have been Instant On for the longest time. Basically, this whole "Instant On" marketing bullet point by Apple is quite disingenuous and aims at consumer ignorance. MBP and MB purchasers also get Instant On.

There is nothing wrong in posting a thread about this and anyone who agrees that the Instant On isn't quite so Instant (it was faster on my MB because the thing never went to hibernate or deep sleep unless the battery was drained) is not some kind of Apple hater. Nor do they regret their purchase.

By a reasonable definition, it's "less instant on than a MacBook, but much better stand-by time!". I was a bit disappointed too when I got my MBA, but after a week without having to charge the thing, just leaving it there and opening it up when needed, I like the compromise of those extra seconds. The stand-by time is definitely great.

 

[HotPopsicle]

It would have been nice (and less confusing) if they had named the feature something like:

"30 day deep sleep with 5 second quick start"

But if you want 'instant on' you can turn off the deep sleep or set it to happen after a longer time.

 

[neteng101]

but after a week without having to charge the thing...

Good gosh - you really need to use your MBA more often!

 

[KnightWRX]

It would have been nice (and less confusing) if they had named the feature something like:

"30 day deep sleep with 5 second quick start"

But if you want 'instant on' you can turn off the deep sleep or set it to happen after a longer time.

Uh, that's basically what the marketing is :

Long-Lasting Battery.
Instant on. Even after a month off.

Let's face it, the feature is not "Instant-On", they abuse the word too much, the real feature is 30 days of stand-by time".

Good gosh - you really need to use your MBA more often!

Busy week, 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. days between work and the gym. I do use it extensively on weekends and usually on weeknights when I get home before 7, but there's some weeks like that.

 

[vraxtus]

The reason this thread is utterly retarded is because we're arguing over the semantics of marketing. If you'd rather get into a philosophical debate over how products are marketed on an everyday basis, we can certainly do so, but the fact is this is a retarded argument about a product feature that otherwise is a moot point between "instant" and "5 seconds".

Everyone is going to have a differing opinion on what exactly "instant" means to them, and so if you're unhappy, sorry? If your intention is to convince Apple to adjust their marketing methods, I think this is hardly the place to do so.

So either get used to what you don't like about it, and suck it up, or stop posting retarded threads like these that don't really produce any affect to your end goal.

 

[KnightWRX]

So either get used to what you don't like about it, and suck it up, or stop posting retarded threads like these that don't really produce any affect to your end goal.

Here's a hint : You don't have to read every thread. If a thread doesn't interest you it does not mean it's "retarded thread", it just means you shouldn't click on it or respond.

What a hard concept.

 

[vraxtus]

Here's a hint : You don't have to read every thread. If a thread doesn't interest you it does not mean it's "retarded thread", it just means you shouldn't click on it or respond.

What a hard concept.

And who said I did?

What a genius solution?

 

[KnightWRX]

And who said I did?

What a genius solution?

Who said you did ? Hum, I have news for you buddy, you're responding to me now in this thread, it means you pretty much clicked on it.

Maybe you didn't quite understand my post...

 

[vraxtus]

Who said you did ? Hum, I have news for you buddy, you're responding to me now in this thread, it means you pretty much clicked on it.

Maybe you didn't quite understand my post...

Who said I click on every post? Clearly your ingenuous advice to gloss over what you don't want to read makes all the sense in the world given the fact that subject lines tell everything about what the post entails.

Try again. Thanks!