Internet Piracy : Your Views

[IntelliUser]

There can be some good to certain types of piracy. Software piracy, for instance. You can pirate some apps to bypass the the trial/function limits, learn how to use them, and if you find yourself comfortable with them, buy them. You could even end up using them for a living, therefore buying each new version. And that would be nothing but a gain for the producer. Granted, this is rarely the case.

Music too. I'd say most teenagers nowadays pirate music. But they often also develop a loyalty, and, when they grow up, probably end up buying the music. This, again, goes to good of the band/singer.

In the end it's all about how you use it.

 

[KeriJane]

Will that work? My impression is that BluRay is here to stay and DVD is on the way out.

(this refers to my recommendation to follow Apple's lead in boycotting products with excessive DRM and/or unfair terms of use like BluRay)

Whether it "works" or not is not important. This is called taking a stand against something that isn't right. People with principles will often take a stand against things they feel are wrong even if there is no hope of stopping these things.

But in Apple's case it might eventually "work". Apple is rapidly becoming the 800 pound gorilla of the computing world. Do it Apple's way with reasonable terms of use or get locked out of the fastest growing computing experience for at least the next several years.

Apple has already demonstrated the necessary resolve and proven that they don't need BluRay to succeed wildly.
The ball is now in BluRays court.

It'll be interesting to see who caves first. BluRay or Apple? Maybe neither?

Have Fun,
Keri

 

[Rodimus Prime]

(this refers to my recommendation to follow Apple's lead in boycotting products with excessive DRM and/or unfair terms of use like BluRay)

Whether it "works" or not is not important. This is called taking a stand against something that isn't right. People with principles will often take a stand against things they feel are wrong even if there is no hope of stopping these things.

But in Apple's case it might eventually "work". Apple is rapidly becoming the 800 pound gorilla of the computing world. Do it Apple's way with reasonable terms of use or get locked out of the fastest growing computing experience for at least the next several years.

Apple has already demonstrated the necessary resolve and proven that they don't need BluRay to succeed wildly.
The ball is now in BluRays court.

It'll be interesting to see who caves first. BluRay or Apple? Maybe neither?

Have Fun,
Keri

You argue Apple is DRM free.... That is a laugh. Apple tries to lock you in to only their products and Apple does not play nice with others. If apple was so free then you could stream stuff from iTunes to other things other than Apple products. Oh wait you cant.
Apple would allow others to sync with iTunes.. Nope can not do that.

Simple fact is Apple is becoming worse than MS in terms of abuse.

As for your argument that Apple does not use Keys and other ways to stop you from installing software. That is also false. Apple uses a hardware lock to keep you from installing OSX on much more than OMG apple products.
B

 

[roadbloc]

(this refers to my recommendation to follow Apple's lead in boycotting products with excessive DRM and/or unfair terms of use like BluRay)

Whether it "works" or not is not important. This is called taking a stand against something that isn't right. People with principles will often take a stand against things they feel are wrong even if there is no hope of stopping these things.

But in Apple's case it might eventually "work". Apple is rapidly becoming the 800 pound gorilla of the computing world. Do it Apple's way with reasonable terms of use or get locked out of the fastest growing computing experience for at least the next several years.

Apple has already demonstrated the necessary resolve and proven that they don't need BluRay to succeed wildly.
The ball is now in BluRays court.

It'll be interesting to see who caves first. BluRay or Apple? Maybe neither?

Have Fun,
Keri

If you boycott DRM you may as well boycott Apple. Apple are always the first that spring to many people's minds when you mention DRM.

And as for Apple vs Bluray... since not many people I know get their media off iTunes in the first place (a few have started since the whole Beatles business), an many people simply go to a shop and buy/rent a Bluray/DVD for their TV, I'd say Bluray have already won. The majority of the general public is just not ready for movies in the digital world yet. CD's may be slowly dying (as are music sales in general), but as it stands now, Bluray has won already.

 

[KeriJane]

You argue Apple is DRM free.... That is a laugh. Apple tries to lock you in to only their products and Apple does not play nice with others. If apple was so free then you could stream stuff from iTunes to other things other than Apple products. Oh wait you cant.
Apple would allow others to sync with iTunes.. Nope can not do that.

Simple fact is Apple is becoming worse than MS in terms of abuse.

As for your argument that Apple does not use Keys and other ways to stop you from installing software. That is also false. Apple uses a hardware lock to keep you from installing OSX on much more than OMG apple products.
B

Hi Rodimus!

No, I'm not trying to imply that Apple is DRM free.
I'm of the opinion that Apple has LESS DRM that "the other guys"', and what there is is less obtrusive.

I'm sorry, but you will never convince me that Apple is worse than MS on any level, most of all the DRM front.

Apple puts a "Hardware Lock" on their OS for some very good reasons. Mostly so that it cannot be installed on an inappropriate, unsupported machine and either undercut Apple, cause support problems that Apple will become entangled in or riun their reputation.

Apple is not obligated to sell their proprietary OS to anyone that wants it or to support either older or non-Apple hardware.

Where is the "serial number + phone home" activation scheme? Apple doesn't use it. The OS doesn't even have a S/N to enter. What's to prevent people from sharing a Snow Leopard disc with all their friends?
Nothing, that's what. Apple trusts their customers to do the right thing.

The end result is OSX is easy to hack. People do, but at their own risk. Apple wants no part of it and has demonstrated that it will prosecute Hackinntosh builders.

Microsoft can keep their 25-digit CD Keys + Orwellian Activations.


Have Fun,
Keri

 

[bobr1952]

yep, I want my data on my computer, plus I use my computer in places that don't have an internet connection or at best have a very poor one so the cloud wouldn't work for me even if I did trust a company not to misuse my data.

For most things, I would like to have the option to consider "rent vs own." There are many products available today that offer that, I am listening to one of them now--Rhapsody. For most music, I don't really care if I own it as long as I can listen to it when I want. I have bought more than my fair share of music over my lifetime and don't really care so much about doing that in the future. Same with most movies--I am content to rent most of them--but I do buy a few Blu Ray movies. TV is the biggest problem for me--I'd love to be able to pick and choose everything for a reasonable cost--that is really not possible now and I don't really want to "keep" anything on TV. So I don't currently really have the need to download anything illegally--so I don't.

 

[yg17]

Hi Rodimus!

No, I'm not trying to imply that Apple is DRM free.
I'm of the opinion that Apple has LESS DRM that "the other guys"', and what there is is less obtrusive.

Less obtrusive than what exactly? Blu-ray? Sure, there's DRM, but it's not obtrusive at all. You don't even know it's there unless you're actively trying to bypass it to rip and copy movies.

Now, let's compare to the DRM on iTunes movies. Want to lend it to your friend? Can't do that. What if you transfer your movie to your laptop from your desktop and want to watch it on a long flight. Well, normally that might work. But what if you forgot to authorize your laptop for your iTunes account before you left? Well, too bad, now you're completely screwed, unless you happen to be on a flight that has WiFi (and you'd have to pay for that). Or lets say for whatever reason you reformat your computer and transfer your movies back to your hard drive, but don't actually watch them initially and therefore, never re-authorize your computer. Now your internet connection at home goes out because your ISP sucks, and you want to watch a movie. Well, tough **** says Apple DRM. You know, the one time you actually want to watch a movie - when you have no internet connection, perhaps no TV either if it's cable, and want to put on a good movie. But, you can't, thanks to Apple's obtrusive DRM.

So, with Blu-ray's so-called awful, obtrusive DRM...lend movies to a friend? Check. Watch movies without an internet connection? Check. But with Apple's "less obtrusive" DRM, you can't do the first, and depending on the situation, might not be able to do the second.

Then of course there's the fact that Blu-ray has a higher picture quality and uncompressed 7.1 audio. Blu-ray: 2. Apple: 0.

I expect another bogus rebuttal because facts are often ignored by those "Apple can do no wrong" types on this forum. I know I probably just wasted a good 15 minutes, but it's either this, or get back to work and deal with some BS I really don't want to deal with right now.

 

[KeriJane]

Less obtrusive than what exactly? Blu-ray? Sure, there's DRM, but it's not obtrusive at all. You don't even know it's there unless you're actively trying to bypass it to rip and copy movies.


I expect another bogus rebuttal because facts are often ignored by those "Apple can do no wrong" types on this forum. I know I probably just wasted a good 15 minutes, but it's either this, or get back to work and deal with some BS I really don't want to deal with right now.

Hi YG17!
Hope you're having a nice day.

If you didn't want a "Bogus Rebuttal", why do you have "Go Team Microsoft" in your sig on an Apple specific forum?

Anyhow here goes the Bogus Rebuttal:

The DRM in BluRay is, as you say fairly unobtrusive. Unless of course you have an OLDER, NON-UPGRADEABLE BluRay player! In which case, many new movies just won't play.

Having to replace an $800 first-generation BluRay player because of the ever-shifting DRM isn't your idea of "Obtrusive"?

Having to hook up your newer, upgradeable BluRay player to the internet from time to time isn't obtrusive?
If you don't have internet, having to send for an upgrade CD isn't obtrusive?

My larger point isn't just to criticize an inconsistent, poorly defined and ever-shifting physical media format with insanely restrictive Terms of Use.

The thing that really bothers me is not buying a $100, $200,or even $800 set-top BD player that may be obsolete in a year or even paying good money for media that doesn't even let me legally make a back-up copy.

The thing that really FROSTS MY SHORTS is being treated like a thief by software companies that I paid THOUSANDS of dollars to for the privilege of using their over-rated software. Personally, I'm referring to Microsoft and Adobe but there are plenty of others that take the lazy way of Piracy reduction: Treat ALL customers as thieves.
Apple is for the most part a refreshing change of pace. They've got my business until they go the Microsoft/Adobe/etc... way.

So, I feel that your idea of unobtrusive is a bit odd.

Of course, that's just the insignificant opinion of a rabid Apple fanatic.
If you find my unapologetic support and admiration of Apple to be disturbing or distasteful, feel free to add me to your "Ignore" list.
That might result in you not having to waste fifteen minutes of your valuable time making me giggle.

Have Fun,
(No, really! Please DO have fun. (sincerely)
Keri


PS. Have you ever considered joining Neowin?

 

[belvdr]

The thing that really FROSTS MY SHORTS is being treated like a thief by software companies that I paid THOUSANDS of dollars to for the privilege of using their over-rated software. Personally, I'm referring to Microsoft and Adobe but there are plenty of others that take the lazy way of Piracy reduction: Treat ALL customers as thieves.
Apple is for the most part a refreshing change of pace. They've got my business until they go the Microsoft/Adobe/etc... way.

What did you buy from MS that was DRM protected and costs thousands of dollars that you are now getting from Apple?

I don't see how MS or Adobe is treating anyone as a thief.

 

[KeriJane]

What did you buy from MS that was DRM protected and costs thousands of dollars that you are now getting from Apple?

I don't see how MS or Adobe is treating anyone as a thief.

I apologize for not giving you running totals and separating MS and Adobe purchases. MS, by itself at any one time has never exceeded roughly $600-$800 on any one machine.
Adobe got over $2,000 of my money for the CS2 Web bundle, maybe a total of $700 for Premiere Pro + CS2 upgrade and another $500 for the CS4 upgrade.
Or so. Probably the totals are higher.

Microsoft and Adobe treat almost ALL of their customers as thieves with one exception: If you have ONLY a Windows computer with "System Locked Pre-Activation". These systems have a copy of Windows tied to that specific model, which is fair enough.

As soon as you install ANY boxed Microsoft or Adobe product a couple of things must happen for you to legally use the software.

1- You must enter a lengthy Serial Number or CD Key during installation. OK, that's not too bad. Serial Numbers are reasonable.

2- The software must communicate with MS (or Adobe, or whoever) and "Activate". This process "marries" the Serial Number to that specific machine. Once the allowed limit of machines has been reached, no further "activations" are possible.
In other words, MS, Adobe and others assume that you cannot be trusted to install the software on just one (or whatever number) machine.
They do not trust you. They enforce their terms by making sure you comply.

This is how any sensible person would treat a known thief.

These "Activation" schemes have many flaws and potential annoyances to the paying customer. How? Why?

The big drawback is that the "Activation" has to assign a unique identity to each individual computer or store activation data on it somewhere.

Adobe stores Activation data on a not easily accessible part of a hard drive. Drive failure? Use a RAID array? Accidental overwrite? Forget to "De-Activate" before replacing a drive? You're a thief in Adobe's eyes as soon as you try to re-install. By the way, they're not very pleasant when you call them up to straighten things out.

MS goes a different route which is a bit better. MS collects information about your specific machine and assigns it a unique identifier code. This is fine until you change a piece of hardware! Some will kill your Windows or Office Activation instantly, others have little effect.
MS does allow for upgrades over time. Just don't change too much too soon.
Even though MS's system works somewhat better, it's still treating you like a potential thief.

Apple doesn't do "activation". Few of their softwares even have serial numbers. They (gasp!) TRUST you not to pass out your Apple software to all of your Mac-owning friends.
They do lock OSX to Apple-branded computers and even sometimes specific models but this is understandable as the OS is not designed to be used on anything else. Also, Apple doesn't want to be supporting computers they didn't make or deal with the headaches that installing Snow Leopard on a G3 would cause.

Anyhow, that's my 2¢

Thanks again, Apple!
Keri

 

[Apple OC]

I agree Adobe can be quite Draconian with its customers

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Apple doesn't do "activation". Few of their softwares even have serial numbers. They (gasp!) TRUST you not to pass out your Apple software to all of your Mac-owning friends.
They do lock OSX to Apple-branded computers and even sometimes specific models but this is understandable as the OS is not designed to be used on anything else. Also, Apple doesn't want to be supporting computers they didn't make or deal with the headaches that installing Snow Leopard on a G3 would cause.

Anyhow, that's my 2¢

Thanks again, Apple!
Keri

Remember all your defense of Apple they are a hardware company first. Software sales are pure gravy money to them.
MS and Abobe (who you seem to hate) are software companies first and their income comes off of OMG software. They have much more interested in making sure it is not stolen.

As for MS activation systme you might want to look at it before you bash it.
It is a 10 point system. You need to keep 6 of your points not to get in trouble and if you break it a phone call generally will get you reset. I have had friends do it more than once. Now when you do that phone call they kill the original activation so when it checks in later on the old one is going to get flagged.

Now I used to know all the 10 points really well but let me see

2 point MAC address (on the MOBO) is worth 2 points.
1 point for the MOBO model/ serial number (can not remember)
1 point for amount of ram
1 point for Graphic card serial number
1 point for HD serial number
1 point for CPU serial number
1 point for CPU model.
1 point for Optical drive serial number.

I know I have something wrong in there but it is fairly close to what it is. It has been a long time. Now when you look at it lets see if you replace your MOBO and CPU you are going to get dinged. If you replace both those generally you got a new computer. The put the most weight on the MOBO and CPU. Replace both they get you. Everything else it is pretty easy to stay under.

 

[belvdr]

I apologize for not giving you running totals and separating MS and Adobe purchases. MS, by itself at any one time has never exceeded roughly $600-$800 on any one machine.

MS did not receive that much money from one machine. They'd be lucky to see $75 - 100 of it. The manufacturer has to get paid too.

1- You must enter a lengthy Serial Number or CD Key during installation. OK, that's not too bad. Serial Numbers are reasonable.

2- The software must communicate with MS (or Adobe, or whoever) and "Activate". This process "marries" the Serial Number to that specific machine. Once the allowed limit of machines has been reached, no further "activations" are possible.
In other words, MS, Adobe and others assume that you cannot be trusted to install the software on just one (or whatever number) machine.
They do not trust you. They enforce their terms by making sure you comply.

Activation does not marry the key to the machine. That's already done prior to activation. I have a MS Technet subscription, and many Windows keys allow activation on up to 10 machines.

Activation is nothing personal to you as individual. It's a fact that their software is pirated a lot more than Apple's. Therefore, they stand the potential of losing a ton of money. I believe, and obviously they do too, that the keys are preventing a loss of revenue. It's not the one-off individual pirates either. It's the businesses that fake the keys that are pirating Microsoft's hard work for their own benefit (i.e. counterfeit keys).

This is how any sensible person would treat a known thief.

These "Activation" schemes have many flaws and potential annoyances to the paying customer. How? Why?

What are these besides a one-time process?

The big drawback is that the "Activation" has to assign a unique identity to each individual computer or store activation data on it somewhere.

As it should. You don't want to activate a serial and then have it available for anyone to use without concern. That defeats the process.

Adobe stores Activation data on a not easily accessible part of a hard drive. Drive failure? Use a RAID array? Accidental overwrite? You're a thief in Adobe's eyes as soon as you try to re-install.

I can't speak for Adobe. Where is it putting the data so that it isn't easily accessilbe? Wouldn't a system backup work (like people should do)?

MS goes a different route which is a bit better. MS collects information about your specific machine and assigns it a unique identifier code. This is fine until you change a piece of hardware! Some will kill your Windows or Office Activation instantly, others have little effect.
MS does allow for upgrades over time. Just don't change too much too soon.
Even though MS's system works somewhat better, it's still treating you like a potential thief.

I've heard of motherboard swaps and such doing this, but not all hardware causes this. Reactivating (a simple 20 second process) is usually fine. Of course, if you're reactivating all the time, then that should indicate some sort of issue.

Apple doesn't do "activation". Few of their softwares even have serial numbers. They (gasp!) TRUST you not to pass out your Apple software to all of your Mac-owning friends.

Like OS X Server? I'm not sure why activation is such a big deal to some. I've done it and it's complete.

They do lock OSX to Apple-branded computers and even sometimes specific models but this is understandable as the OS is not designed to be used on anything else. Also, Apple doesn't want to be supporting computers they didn't make or deal with the headaches that installing Snow Leopard on a G3 would cause.

Which is why their software is not pirated as much as Microsoft's; there are less hardware platforms to run it on.

 

[yg17]

Hi YG17!
Hope you're having a nice day.

If you didn't want a "Bogus Rebuttal", why do you have "Go Team Microsoft" in your sig on an Apple specific forum?

Because I don't have a blind allegiance to Apple like you do. I have an iPod, MacBook and iPad. I also have a PC and an Android phone. My life does not revolve around seeing Apple succeed and everyone else fail.

Anyhow here goes the Bogus Rebuttal:

The DRM in BluRay is, as you say fairly unobtrusive. Unless of course you have an OLDER, NON-UPGRADEABLE BluRay player! In which case, many new movies just won't play.

Having to replace an $800 first-generation BluRay player because of the ever-shifting DRM isn't your idea of "Obtrusive"?

The first players weren't $800. But it goes to show why you shouldn't be an early adopter. These players were sold when it wasn't even sure if HD-DVD or Blu-ray would win out. You'd have to be nuts to buy a player then. I bought a Blu-ray player a few years ago, when the format war was settled, paid a pretty penny for it, and it's upgradeable. In fact, I just had an upgrade last week. I have yet to find a movie that won't play on it - and between Netflix and my personal collection, I've thrown a lot of discs at it, and they all played with no problems. Every single one of them.

Having to hook up your newer, upgradeable BluRay player to the internet from time to time isn't obtrusive?

Not at all, in my case, my Blu-ray player sits 4 feet from my router. And many new ones have WiFi built in. Hooking up a Blu-ray player to the internet is no more difficult than connecting your computer.

If you don't have internet, having to send for an upgrade CD isn't obtrusive?

As opposed to iTunes, where if you don't have internet, you're not getting movies, period.

My larger point isn't just to criticize an inconsistent, poorly defined and ever-shifting physical media format with insanely restrictive Terms of Use.

The thing that really bothers me is not buying a $100, $200,or even $800 set-top BD player that may be obsolete in a year or even paying good money for media that doesn't even let me legally make a back-up copy.

The thing that really FROSTS MY SHORTS is being treated like a thief by software companies that I paid THOUSANDS of dollars to for the privilege of using their over-rated software. Personally, I'm referring to Microsoft and Adobe but there are plenty of others that take the lazy way of Piracy reduction: Treat ALL customers as thieves.
Apple is for the most part a refreshing change of pace. They've got my business until they go the Microsoft/Adobe/etc... way.

So, I feel that your idea of unobtrusive is a bit odd.

Of course, that's just the insignificant opinion of a rabid Apple fanatic.
If you find my unapologetic support and admiration of Apple to be disturbing or distasteful, feel free to add me to your "Ignore" list.
That might result in you not having to waste fifteen minutes of your valuable time making me giggle.

Have Fun,
(No, really! Please DO have fun. (sincerely)
Keri

Why shouldn't software companies be allowed to protect themselves against piracy? CD keys and activation aren't even really DRM. You're allowed to burn off as many copies of your Windows and Adobe CDs to your hearts content for backup purposes. They're not stopping you from that. CD keys are designed to prevent you from installing the software on multiple computers, which is against the EULA.

PS. Have you ever considered joining Neowin?

No, why? I wasn't aware MacRumors requires it's members to pledge allegiance to Apple and never, ever criticize them. Hell, there's no requirement to even own any Apple products to be on this site (even though I do). Maybe some of us are here because we enjoy the community.

On a side note, I've experienced reaching my activation "limit" with Windows on a few occasions (no, nothing illegal or fishy going on). A quick call to Microsoft's 1-800 number cleared it right up, and it's an automated phone system so I didn't even have to speak with somebody in Bangalore. It's not a huge deal at all.

 

[roadbloc]

Sorry KeriJane, but I seriously fail to see how you can claim iTunes is less restrictive and has less DRM than blueray.

Can you share a movie with a friend? iTunes = nope unless you give then your iTunes account registered device that is always connected to the Internet. Blueray = yes, just lend then your copy.

Can you play a movie wherever there is the available machinery to do so? iTunes = yes, but you need a modern computer with a recent version of iTunes on it, which is also registered to your account and connected to the Internet. Not to mention the sufficient memory to store the movie. Blueray = yes, you just need a blueray playing device (ie, a blueray player or one if them awful PC things you hate so much to use.)

Let's just have one more shall we? Its been a few years now and you rarely watch your movie anymore. Can you sell your movie once that you have finished with it? I'll leave you to work that one out.

As a fan of apple products, there is one thing I hate to see and that is blind fanboyism. I'm a big fan of apple, but at least I can see that iTunes is much much much more restrictive than blueray. Can't afford a blueray player? Use DVD then, new technology is always expensive at first. And apple are definantly a company which let's us know of that.

As for the activation key business, I find it hard to believe that anyone buying legit software will be bothered about typing in a 20 digit code to prove they are legit on the first use of the product. And there is such a thing as unactivation, where you unassign your product from your computer.

 

[Ttownbeast]

I know of one solution to software piracy that makes expense of the products moot and eliminates the need to illegally copy. Give it away and offer services and support for a fee such as what open source app developers do. There is your free Porche legally copied, but if you do not posses the knowledge to maintain it on your own somebody can charge a fee to service it.

Many OS's like Linux operate successfully using this business model they let people use the software for free to use and develop it as they see fit contributing to the development of newer versions. But if you have a technical problem you have the option of hiring an expert to do the maintenance. Ubuntu has been somewhat successful at this lately you can get theirs for free along with all the apps needed to do whatever you need to do, and if you want you can pay for direct support from their corporate arm Cannonical for a price. No one has as of yet figured out a way to fake a legitimate service contract, or subscription that requires maintenance by a third party for free without actually stealing somebody else's financial information and making a transaction. So I get what software I need for free, legally, fully functional, and if I so wished I could subscribe for support and repair as needed if unable to fix a problem using the free resources provided.

As for the music side of this it is a slippery slope of fair use vs copyright there is no clear enough definition of what is considered fair use in general nor is copyright a clear thing but rather the guidelines as outlined by a works creator. Open source software is an example of one use of copyright because even those giving away software for free have rules they wish to be abide by as disclaimers concerning the methods and manners of distribution and modification of their works. Copyright does not protect just those seeking monetary profit for a product and does not defend against all instances of fair use, it can be used as a means of giving esteemed credit to a developer who gives away something.

 

[Nein01]

You're right, those people don't need to eat or pay bills. Gosh, what should I tell my mother-in-law, that she isn't a "real" artist? Clearly spoken from a person that is not creative and never had something stolen from them.

i went to art school for 6 and a half years actually, and it was the best experience of my life, even though the government is trying to steal $50,000 from me for that degree. of course that doesn't make me a creative person, but i am. maybe you should tell your mother-in-law that she's not a real artist. does she paint meaningless landscapes and still lifes over and over again just to pawn them off for a couple hundred bucks here and there? my stepmom does, and there's nothing wrong with that really, but there is too much ****ed up **** going on in the world right now to call yourself an artist if all you do is that kind of crap. i don't tell my stepmom that though because she doesn't care, and it would only hurt her feelings anyway.

again, paying bills has nothing to do with art. i don't make a living as an artist (yet), but it doesn't matter. i bartend to pay my bills and still make art for free just because the world needs it.

 

[Chase R]

Piracy is here to stay until the distribution of TV and movies changes.

I'm not paying $50 or so a month to spend 1/3 of my viewing time watching commercials. Commercial-based advertising here in the U.S. is just rediculous.

I wish TV would move to a subscription based service, where you pick the individual shows and news you want, not some bulk package with 500 useless channels that are a PITA to navigate.

Piracy is here, mainly, because current distribution methods are inconvenient. Take a look at Steam, I'm willing to pay for games that I could download for free because it is MORE convenient and worth it to me, the consumer.

The industry needs to adapt, or piracy isn't going anywhere.

 

[wildcat90]

So how about alt.binaries on usenet?

 

[Chase R]

So how about alt.binaries on usenet?

Not quite sure what you're getting at here. I've never used UseNet.

 

[bobr1952]

So how about alt.binaries on usenet?

What about USENET? It is there--has been for a lot longer than most parts of the Internet--and it has legal stuff and not-so-legal stuff for those who choose to use it.

 

[KeriJane]

Hi again, Yg-17!

Because I don't have a blind allegiance to Apple like you do. I have an iPod, MacBook and iPad. I also have a PC and an Android phone. My life does not revolve around seeing Apple succeed and everyone else fail.

Believe it or not, neither does mine. I just like Apple products and polices better than anyone else's. Apple has earned my respect while most other relevant companies have earned disgust or maybe ridicule.

Why shouldn't software companies be allowed to protect themselves against piracy? CD keys and activation aren't even really DRM. You're allowed to burn off as many copies of your Windows and Adobe CDs to your hearts content for backup purposes. They're not stopping you from that. CD keys are designed to prevent you from installing the software on multiple computers, which is against the EULA.

My point was: the only people these "aren't really DRM" features affect are paying customers. The pirates are clever enough to circumvent them. So why have them? Mostly, they just anger legit customers.
Obviously, companies can do whatever they like. Paying customers can also do what we like and in many cases that includes going elsewhere.
Some of us have even applied the "hacks" to legit software so as to reduce inconvenience. That's just a ridiculous thing to have to do.
I refuse to. Whenever Activation screws up, I'm on the phone in a minute and am even more annoying than when here!

On a side note, I've experienced reaching my activation "limit" with Windows on a few occasions (no, nothing illegal or fishy going on). A quick call to Microsoft's 1-800 number cleared it right up, and it's an automated phone system so I didn't even have to speak with somebody in Bangalore. It's not a huge deal at all.

Yes, I know all about that phone number. MS does handle it fairly well compared to Adobe, as I pointed out.
Apparently you enjoy explaining to big corporations exactly what and why you are doing to your computer and then also like typing in long groups of characters while on the phone.
My point still stands:
The underlying assumption is that you are trying to steal Windows. (or Office or what have you). They have every right to make that assumption and I have every right to go elsewhere.

I'm really happy to have Apple as I lack the aptitude to get Linux working right.


Have Fun,
Debate at MR!
Keri

PS> Oh, and how much does MS pay for that kind of post? It is paid for by the word or is it a job requirement while working at the Microsoft Store? Are they rated for effectiveness or maybe grammar? (Don't have a cow! I'm just kidding about your sig again!)

 

[roadbloc]

Believe it or not, neither does mine. I just like Apple products and polices better than anyone else's. Apple has earned my respect while most other relevant companies have earned disgust or maybe ridicule.

Each to their own, but personally, I think Apple are at the centre of ridicule at the moment. The whole 'this day you will never forget' Beatles shindig, coupled with the fact that OS X is still behind on OpenGL drivers after pretty much the entirety of this year to catch up, the iPhoto '11 library mess up (in-fact, just iLife 11 all together), the iPhone 4 antenna problems and now they are ripping off the Ubuntu App Store.

My point was: the only people these "aren't really DRM" features affect are paying customers. The pirates are clever enough to circumvent them. So why have them? Mostly, they just anger legit customers.
Obviously, companies can do whatever they like. Paying customers can also do what we like and in many cases that includes going elsewhere.
Some of us have even applied the "hacks" to legit software so as to reduce inconvenience. That's just a ridiculous thing to have to do.
I refuse to. Whenever Activation screws up, I'm on the phone in a minute and am even more annoying than when here!

Hardly. If anyone thinks that typing in a legit activation key is a pain and having to first find and then successfully install a crack for your software (without getting a virus if your a PC user), then I'd say they don't know anything about piracy. Trust me, as someone who used to pirate software, it is so, so, so, so, so, so much easer just to type in a number and possibly have a few minutes on a phone to a talking computer if something appears to be wrong. Being legit is much easier.

The underlying assumption is that you are trying to steal Windows. (or Office or what have you).

No it isn't. I really don't understand how your mind works. It's a bleeding activation number! Type it in and that's that! On very rare occasions you may have to ring support (in which, you even very rarely have to talk to a real human being!) If you want to move your product to another computer simply... unactivate. It isn't hard!

PS> Oh, and how much does MS pay for that kind of post? It is paid for by the word or is it a job requirement while working at the Microsoft Store? Are they rated for effectiveness or maybe grammar? (Don't have a cow! I'm just kidding about your sig again!)

How much does Apple pay you?

 

[sim667]

I dont think pirating is something that can be stopped, its been around since recordable media (well recordable at home) and naturally digital piracy is the next stage.

What I do think will happen is with the current push on the Bit Torrent network, closing the torrent file sites, more and more people will start to use newsgroups, mainly because its easier to protect your ip and traffic, but also because of the implied 'net closing in' on the torrent sites, because of that I think newsgroups will have a very large hand in shaping the future of media distribution.... how? I need to think about that

 

[Winni]

I was wondering what people think about Internet Piracy and illegal downloads (movies,tv shows,music etc)

Seems like theres is a hell of a lot of people doing this nowaday.
Can it be stopped?,should fines be enforced?

Explain this: I can LEGALLY record a movie that is shown on TV, I can legally record a song that is played on the radio, and now, all of a sudden, when I do the same over the Internet with a movie that was previously aired on TV or a song that was aired on the radio, this download is illegal? Why? Obviously, they have given this thing away for free previously - at least from my perspective as the consumer it never cost a thing in the first place.

Then we have all those product placement movies like the James Bond 007 series that were already in the black before they were even shown in movie theaters. Where is their right to complain when people download their ad-financed product from the Internet?

There's also a load of stuff floating around the Internet that you cannot even buy on DVD/CD anymore. Why should it be illegal to download something that otherwise cannot even be obtained anymore?

Furthermore, here in Germany, everybody who has an Internet-capable computer is forced to pay a monthly fee as if it was a radio. We also have to pay monthly fees for public TV - so, basically, there is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to watching TV or listening to the radio in Germany. The private stations make their money with ads, the public stations make their money with ads AND those monthly fees that every person with an income has to pay. In other words, we already have to pay something to be eligible to consume broadcasts. Why now should it be illegal if I download something for which I indirectly paid?

I can tell you what the simple solution is: Put a flatrate tax on the Internet and then distribute the collected money to the artists and you have a compromise everybody should be able to live with. Money comes in and nobody is doing anything illegal anymore. And you can still sell DVDs, BluRays, CDs, rentals and whatever else, if you find a customer for that. Very simple and effective. The only thing preventing this solution is the greed of the copyright owners.

And that is my final thought here: Almost nobody is ever talking about the rights of the consumers/customers - it's always only about the rights of the copyright holders. This perspective simply doesn't work anymore in a world where digital distribution is a reality and where the distribution costs have dropped to almost zero. The production of a movie is expensive, but so is the development of a new version of Windows or Mac OS X or any other piece of software. But in the year 2010 they all have one thing in common: They can be infinitely be copied and distributed at zero cost. It's not like printing books or building cars, so there is no justification that we should pay 20 bucks for a movie on iTunes or anywhere else. It's an arbitrary, artificial price with no economic reasoning behind it.

So, no, people who download those things should not be fined or in any way be prosecuted. If the industry wants to survive, they should wake up to the realities of the digital age and adjust their no longer working business models.

Artists no longer need music publishers. Authors no longer need book publishers. Soon, movie directors will no longer need the big studios. And it's the studios and the publishers who make all that fuss about illegal downloads, it's not the artists.