iOS 10 X

[DaveOP]

Still, when I said Apple has removed certain features from iOS 6 for no reason, you proved my point.

Probably because they added share to Facebook all over the OS, and FaceBook could add a much more powerful version if they wanted? Also, the 3rd party weather widgets are WAY better than that built in one. Stop deflecting.

 

[nooaah]

In case yours is 100% pro Ive/Cook/iOS 7+ i'm sure that's called hypocrisy, but no offense.

Huh?? I'm failing to see the hypocrisy.

 

[Armen]

They could've gotten anyone in the world to come in and redesign iOS but Cook chose Ive, a man who had ZERO prior experience in software design.

So you're telling me Apple should have taken a major risk and hired a complete stranger on one of the biggest iOS changes ever rather than go with their in home designer who has brought success to the company?

 

[Abazigal]

They could've gotten anyone in the world to come in and redesign iOS but Cook chose Ive, a man who had ZERO prior experience in software design.

I don't believe Ive sat down right after Scott was fired and thought to himself "You know, I think iOS needs to be redesigned" and proceed to pull the ideas out of his rear end. Ive likely already had his own ideas about how iOS ought to be even as the first iPhone was being conceptualised, and had been steadily making notes and sketches way back, and refining his ideas along the way. Once Scott was gone and the opportunity presented itself, all he needed to do was to dust off his notes and communicate his ideas to the rest of the team.

The way I see it, Apple chose the man who had control and influence over the design of the hardware to design the software. This actually helps in ensuring a cohesive design for both the hardware and software which happen to go very well with each other, even if each looks rather unassuming on its own.

You see the problem prior to iOS 7 - Ive and Scott basically didn't see eye to eye, and the end result was a skeumorphic OS design which looked out of place with the industrial design of the iPhone. Neither is wrong in their own right, but then you see the problem when two diametrically opposed design philosophies are forced to co-exist with each other.

I have no doubt that Apple will continue to make minor refinements to the UI in subsequent OS updates, but for now, I am pretty satisfied with the design direction of the software.

 

[Radon87000]

So you're telling me Apple should have taken a major risk and hired a complete stranger on one of the biggest iOS changes ever rather than go with their in home designer who has brought success to the company?

Not necessary.JusT don't Fire Scott forstall

Please tell me how (see screenshot) is more refined, polished or cleaner than iOS 7-9. Just look at the cluttered mess notification centre was.

2 things.That screenshot you linked is much easier and faster for all kinds of hardware to render because it's less demanding on hardware .Secondly the text itself is mucch sharper and easier to read.

As far as clutter goes,I could easily do the same in iOS 9 by loading all kinds of widgets up in the NC.

 

[Abazigal]

Not necessary.JusT don't Fire Scott forstall

We may never know the entire story, and will have to agree to disagree, but from what I know, Scott was proving to be more trouble than he was worth. He might have been a talented software engineer, but his abrasive personality was causing a lot of friction and problems within the company, especially Ive.

For the good of the company, he really had to go. There was no other way around it.

That said, I am not sure if it is because of him, but I find myself actually liking the post-Scott Forstall Apple. I am seeing a lot more cooperation and integration between iOS and OSX after he left. Most notably, iMessage finally coming to the Mac, as well as other services playing nice with each other. This would require a lot of communication and collaborative effort between the two software teams, which seems like it would not have been possible were Scott still head of iOS.

 

[lagwagon]

2 things.That screenshot you linked is much easier and faster for all kinds of hardware to render because it's less demanding on hardware .Secondly the text itself is mucch sharper and easier to read.

As far as clutter goes,I could easily do the same in iOS 9 by loading all kinds of widgets up in the NC.

Hardware and the "ease" of it being able to render (assuming you're moaning about translucency) have absolutely nothing to do with how cluttered it is.

Sure, one could load up widgets in iOS 9 but it wouldn't be as cluttered. iOS 9 doesn't have boxes around everything. iOS 9 doesn't have busy textures on or around everything. iOS 7-9 NC and pretty much everywhere in iOS are far cleaner because the removal of all the things that clutter the screen. Boxes around everything cramps and confines things, busy textures on or around everything is just too much to look at, fatter/bolder font also contributes to clutter.

iOS 7-9 is directed towards a minimalistic look. Which it succeeds at. Doesn't mean it's the best and also doesn't mean it's the worst. It's all individual preference.

Even if Apple tomorrow released a totally redesigned iOS that 100% suited everything you like/want visually, someone else would just take your current place of hating it. You would change from "I don't like it therefore it's the worst ever, it's fact because I say so" to "I like it therefore it's the best ever, it's fact because I say so".

 

[BillyMatt87]

So you're telling me Apple should have taken a major risk and hired a complete stranger on one of the biggest iOS changes ever rather than go with their in home designer who has brought success to the company?

It's more of hiring someone qualified for the position. Ive is a great hardware designer but does that automatically mean he could design software as well? Michael Jordon is considered to be the greatest basketball player in the world but did that particular talent translate well into his ill-fated baseball career?

The point is, Jobs knew Ive was brilliant if he had the proper guidance but I don't think Tim Cook provides that at all. Jobs also knew how important and talented Forstall was as well. Both were needed to continue the vision, now there is no balance.
[doublepost=1455990149][/doublepost]

We may never know the entire story, and will have to agree to disagree, but from what I know, Scott was proving to be more trouble than he was worth. He might have been a talented software engineer, but his abrasive personality was causing a lot of friction and problems within the company, especially Ive.

For the good of the company, he really had to go. There was no other way around it.

That said, I am not sure if it is because of him, but I find myself actually liking the post-Scott Forstall Apple. I am seeing a lot more cooperation and integration between iOS and OSX after he left. Most notably, iMessage finally coming to the Mac, as well as other services playing nice with each other. This would require a lot of communication and collaborative effort between the two software teams, which seems like it would not have been possible were Scott still head of iOS.

Forstall was probably the last remaining executive at Apple with the characteristics and traits of Jobs. Obviously Cook was more concerned with appeasing the other executives with firing him than realizing how vital Forstall was to the success and quality of Apple's software. Forstall may have been a nightmare and a prick to work with, but so was Jobs! We need more people like that at Apple, not softies like Cook or incompetent ones like Federighi.

Apple products were at their best when the hardware and software teams were kept separate. I think Jobs had a reason for that: so each department could focus on their own projects which in return, resulted in products that felt top-notch and extremely refined because everybody was doing their own part.
[doublepost=1455990426][/doublepost]

Hardware and the "ease" of it being able to render (assuming you're moaning about translucency) have absolutely nothing to do with how cluttered it is.

Sure, one could load up widgets in iOS 9 but it wouldn't be as cluttered. iOS 9 doesn't have boxes around everything. iOS 9 doesn't have busy textures on or around everything. iOS 7-9 NC and pretty much everywhere in iOS are far cleaner because the removal of all the things that clutter the screen. Boxes around everything cramps and confines things, busy textures on or around everything is just too much to look at, fatter/bolder font also contributes to clutter.

iOS 7-9 is directed towards a minimalistic look. Which it succeeds at. Doesn't mean it's the best and also doesn't mean it's the worst. It's all individual preference.

Even if Apple tomorrow released a totally redesigned iOS that 100% suited everything you like/want visually, someone else would just take your current place of hating it. You would change from "I don't like it therefore it's the worst ever, it's fact because I say so" to "I like it therefore it's the best ever, it's fact because I say so".

iOS went too far with its redesign. It's one thing to just simply remove the skuemorphic textures (like Mavericks did) but they definitely went overboard with completely stripping away every aspect of the design, even the buttons! There's practically no contrast or depth anymore and the icons look they were designed in a high school Adobe Illustrator class.

Believe it or not, I was interested to see what iOS 7 was gonna be like, but then I watched the WWDC 2013 Keynote... 😱
[doublepost=1455990833][/doublepost]

I don't believe Ive sat down right after Scott was fired and thought to himself "You know, I think iOS needs to be redesigned" and proceed to pull the ideas out of his rear end. Ive likely already had his own ideas about how iOS ought to be even as the first iPhone was being conceptualised, and had been steadily making notes and sketches way back, and refining his ideas along the way. Once Scott was gone and the opportunity presented itself, all he needed to do was to dust off his notes and communicate his ideas to the rest of the team.

The way I see it, Apple chose the man who had control and influence over the design of the hardware to design the software. This actually helps in ensuring a cohesive design for both the hardware and software which happen to go very well with each other, even if each looks rather unassuming on its own.

You see the problem prior to iOS 7 - Ive and Scott basically didn't see eye to eye, and the end result was a skeumorphic OS design which looked out of place with the industrial design of the iPhone. Neither is wrong in their own right, but then you see the problem when two diametrically opposed design philosophies are forced to co-exist with each other.

I have no doubt that Apple will continue to make minor refinements to the UI in subsequent OS updates, but for now, I am pretty satisfied with the design direction of the software.

It seems almost obvious that Ive was ready to make his mark on iOS the moment Forstall was fired, it was something he seemed to be itching to do.

Ive was definitely the wrong guy to design the software from the get-go, minimalism is a great design strategy for hardware, but the lack of details there should definitely be made up for for onscreen. There is no cohesive design, you have an elegantly designed device running an OS that looks childish and half-completed.

The fact that Ive and Forstall didn't see eye to eye gave us some of their best work. Just like how Fleetwood Mac gave us Rumours, a classic and acclaimed album made when everybody was constantly at each others' throats. Tension creates masterpieces, but Cook is too soft of an individual and short-sighted to realize that.

 

[I7guy]

Hardware and the "ease" of it being able to render (assuming you're moaning about translucency) have absolutely nothing to do with how cluttered it is.

Sure, one could load up widgets in iOS 9 but it wouldn't be as cluttered. iOS 9 doesn't have boxes around everything. iOS 9 doesn't have busy textures on or around everything. iOS 7-9 NC and pretty much everywhere in iOS are far cleaner because the removal of all the things that clutter the screen. Boxes around everything cramps and confines things, busy textures on or around everything is just too much to look at, fatter/bolder font also contributes to clutter.

iOS 7-9 is directed towards a minimalistic look. Which it succeeds at. Doesn't mean it's the best and also doesn't mean it's the worst. It's all individual preference.

Even if Apple tomorrow released a totally redesigned iOS that 100% suited everything you like/want visually, someone else would just take your current place of hating it. You would change from "I don't like it therefore it's the worst ever, it's fact because I say so" to "I like it therefore it's the best ever, it's fact because I say so".

You hit the nail on the head with this post. As far as liking it or not liking it, the market has spoken.

 

[Radon87000]

It's more of hiring someone qualified for the position. Ive is a great hardware designer but does that automatically mean he could design software as well? Michael Jordon is considered to be the greatest basketball player in the world but did that particular talent translate well into his ill-fated baseball career?

The point is, Jobs knew Ive was brilliant if he had the proper guidance but I don't think Tim Cook provides that at all. Jobs also knew how important and talented Forstall was as well. Both were needed to continue the vision, now there is no balance.
[doublepost=1455990149][/doublepost]

Forstall was probably the last remaining executive at Apple with the characteristics and traits of Jobs. Obviously Cook was more concerned with appeasing the other executives with firing him than realizing how vital Forstall was to the success and quality of Apple's software. Forstall may have been a nightmare and a prick to work with, but so was Jobs! We need more people like that at Apple, not softies like Cook or incompetent ones like Federighi.

Apple products were at their best when the hardware and software teams were kept separate. I think Jobs had a reason for that: so each department could focus on their own projects which in return, resulted in products that felt top-notch and extremely refined because everybody was doing their own part.
[doublepost=1455990426][/doublepost]

iOS went too far with its redesign. It's one thing to just simply remove the skuemorphic textures (like Mavericks did) but they definitely went overboard with completely stripping away every aspect of the design, even the buttons! There's practically no contrast or depth anymore and the icons look they were designed in a high school Adobe Illustrator class.

Believe it or not, I was interested to see what iOS 7 was gonna be like, but then I watched the WWDC 2013 Keynote... 😱
[doublepost=1455990833][/doublepost]

It seems almost obvious that Ive was ready to make his mark on iOS the moment Forstall was fired, it was something he seemed to be itching to do.

Ive was definitely the wrong guy to design the software from the get-go, minimalism is a great design strategy for hardware, but the lack of details there should definitely be made up for for onscreen. There is no cohesive design, you have an elegantly designed device running an OS that looks childish and half-completed.

The fact that Ive and Forstall didn't see eye to eye gave us some of their best work. Just like how Fleetwood Mac gave us Rumours, a classic and acclaimed album made when everybody was constantly at each others' throats. Tension creates masterpieces, but Cook is too soft of an individual and short-sighted to realize that.

Spot on in your analysis! People seem to quickfly forget who got Tim Cook the cash reserves he inherited as CEO in the first place and the real guys responsible for getting iOS and iPhone where it is now.Hopefully they will regain that lost spark as sales start declining next quarter

 

[BillyMatt87]

Th

You hit the nail on the head with this post. As far as liking it or not liking it, the market has spoken.

The market has spoken, iPhone sales have already peaked. Hopefully that will be their wake-up call.

 

[I7guy]

Spot on in your analysis! People seem to quickfly forget who got Tim Cook the cash reserves he inherited as CEO in the first place and the real guys responsible for getting iOS and iPhone where it is now.Hopefully they will regain that lost spark as sales start declining next quarter

Got a feeling sales with have nothing to do with anything as the course is already plotted. And there will be plenty of "I love it" and "I hate it". However to your point about the cash reserves, I guess the smashing records of iphone sales under TC had nothing to do with anything.🙄 People sure no how to ignore the obvious sometimes.

Apple is not motivated by short term sales, they seem to take a longer view of things.

 

[BillyMatt87]

Got a feeling sales with have nothing to do with anything as the course is already plotted. And there will be plenty of "I love it" and "I hate it". However to your point about the cash reserves, I guess the smashing records of iphone sales under TC had nothing to do with anything.🙄 People sure no how to ignore the obvious sometime.

The fact that Apple has its deep cash reserves ensures that they can screw up as much as they did in the 90s for the sake of profits without having to worry about going bankrupt because people will buy their stuff anyway without questions.

 

[I7guy]

The fact that Apple has its deep cash reserves ensures that they can screw up as much as they did in the 90s for the sake of profits without having to worry about going bankrupt because people will buy their stuff anyway without questions.

Absolutely true and you can't control the universe. So you have to pick your battles. You can decide apple is or is not a company you want to do business with, and that is about the end of it.

 

[Radon87000]

Got a feeling sales with have nothing to do with anything as the course is already plotted. And there will be plenty of "I love it" and "I hate it". However to your point about the cash reserves, I guess the smashing records of iphone sales under TC had nothing to do with anything.🙄 People sure no how to ignore the obvious sometimes.

Apple is not motivated by short term sales, they seem to take a longer view of things.

The entirety of Apple's current profits have a foundation which was built entirely by Jobs and Forstall.Tim Cook hasnt had a single smashing product category to his credit except for the Apple Watch whose sales are kept hidden for obvious reasons.

Hopefully an even thinner iPhone will reignite sales as thats all thats happened till now

 

[576316]

I think the most we can hope for in terms of a 'redesign' is something relating to iOS on iPad. That needs looking at in my opinion, especially on iPad Pro.

 

[I7guy]

The entirety of Apple's current profits have a foundation which was built entirely by Jobs and Forstall.Tim Cook hasnt had a single smashing product category to his credit except for the Apple Watch whose sales are kept hidden for obvious reasons.

Hopefully an even thinner iPhone will reignite sales as thats all thats happened till now

So? Does it really matter? TC is the commander in chief now, hand picked by SJ, and by all indications he is doing a smashing job. Does it really bother you, that apple doesn't separately release numbers for the apple watch. If you are a shareholder I would use my AAPL stock as leverage to get those sneaky financial people to disclose that information.
[doublepost=1455994760][/doublepost]
You can complain all you want; I don't really care one way or another and neither does the universe is my point.

What I'm saying is a legitimate discussion would be great, with an understanding there are many facets to this complicated issue, but alas, that doesn't really seem to be the case as illustrated by your post that I quoted.

Edit: you believe the "complaining" made the aluminum stronger and the cpu faster and added water resistance and the other updates?

 

[BillyMatt87]

So? Does it really matter? TC is the commander in chief now, hand picked by SJ, and by all indications he is doing a smashing job. Does it really bother you, that apple doesn't separately release numbers for the apple watch. If you are a shareholder I would use my AAPL stock as leverage to get those sneaky financial people to disclose that information.
[doublepost=1455994760][/doublepost]
You can complain all you want; I don't really care one way or another and neither does the universe is my point.

What I'm saying is a legitimate discussion would be great, with an understanding there are many facets to this complicated issue, but alas, that doesn't really seem to be the case as illustrated by your post that I quoted.

Again Jobs also picked John Sculley to be CEO, didn't work out well either. I think it's clear that one of Steve's weak points has always been appointing CEOs. Tim Cook is nothing special and has the personality of a lobster. He has no charisma or vision and makes a lot of stupid decisions and has undone a lot of what Steve worked hard for just to squeeze out some extra profits.

 

[I7guy]

Again Jobs also picked John Sculley to be CEO, didn't work out well either. I think it's clear that one of Steve's weak points has always been appointing CEOs. Tim Cook is nothing special and has the personality of a lobster. He has no charisma or vision and makes a lot of stupid decisions and has undone a lot of what Steve worked hard for just to squeeze out some extra profits.

Tim Cook is exactly what apple needs at this point. He has a different bent, personality and set of skills and is showing in the way the company is operating and it's growth. It is what it is. He is a smart person who will not make a mis-step.

 

[BillyMatt87]

Tim Cook is exactly what apple needs at this point. He has a different bent, personality and set of skills and is showing in the way the company is operating and it's growth. It is what it is. He is a smart person who will not make a mis-step.

Cook seems to be an all-talk type of CEO. I don't think he's the right fit to lead Apple, he's great at bean counting but a company like Apple deserves more than just your average business guy. He may have a smart mind for money snd supply chains but when it comes to the direction of the actual products and the vision for such, he's MIA.

Cook has made a bunch of decisions that I would consider huge missteps: firing Forstall, promoting Federighi and Ive, hiring both John Browett and Angela Ahrendtz, and acquiring Beats.

 

[I7guy]

Cook seems to be an all-talk type of CEO. I don't think he's the right fit to lead Apple, he's great at bean counting but a company like Apple deserves more than just your average business guy. He may have a smart mind for money snd supply chains but when it comes to the direction of the actual products and the vision for such, he's MIA.

Cook has made a bunch of decisions that I would consider huge missteps: firing Forstall, promoting Federighi and Ive, hiring both John Browett and Angela Ahrendtz, and acquiring Beats.

I like the post jobs Apple and Tim Cook to me isn't your average run of the mill ceo. The 6s shows cook has vision. As for the rest time will tell, we have to see how it will play out.

 

[iOSUser7]

Before making irrelevant personal commentary about someone you might actually try to at least even pretend to bother to have something to back it all up, because you would be way off in your "assessment" when it comes to me and 2014 (or even 2013 when iOS 7 launched with the new design).

I never confirmed or searched for proofs that you defended bendgate, I said that looking at all your (close to fanboy) posts, I assume that you did defended bendgate.

 

[DoctorKrabs]

We may never know the entire story, and will have to agree to disagree, but from what I know, Scott was proving to be more trouble than he was worth. He might have been a talented software engineer, but his abrasive personality was causing a lot of friction and problems within the company, especially Ive.

For the good of the company, he really had to go. There was no other way around it.

That said, I am not sure if it is because of him, but I find myself actually liking the post-Scott Forstall Apple. I am seeing a lot more cooperation and integration between iOS and OSX after he left. Most notably, iMessage finally coming to the Mac, as well as other services playing nice with each other. This would require a lot of communication and collaborative effort between the two software teams, which seems like it would not have been possible were Scott still head of iOS.

If you've ever watched Triumph of the Nerds, everything you just said about Scott is exactly what Apple employees said about Steve Jobs once he left in 1985.

At 32:50 in the video above, it really screams the exact same things we hear about Scott.

 

[Armen]

So you are basically telling us (customers) that we don't have the right to complains about the products we buy and we should just ignore all the flaws ?

I'm sure you and C DM are the kind of people who defended bendgate back in late 2014 but thanks to everyone else (non Apple fanboys) and even Apple haters/Android diehards that made all this noise about it, we now got an iPhone 6s with stronger aluminium that fix bendgate issue.

Complaining on a forum that Apple doesn't read = Y U no make sense?

 

[matrix07]

Anyone's impressed with San Francisco font? At first I thought "Meh.." but now I think it's perfect for the look (Both on iOS and OS X, especially OS X) and don't want Apple to mess with it for a long time.